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What will the PVP be like? Any word on EVE esque territory control or player looting?

GintohGintoh Member UncommonPosts: 329
What will the PVP be like? Any word on EVE esque territory control or player looting?
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Comments

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094

    They seem open to different server types, but I highly doubt we'll see EVE in Norrath.

    Player looting if part of the core game would instantly alienate a huge population of gamers.

    Doubt we'd see land control on EVE's scale where a guild or whatever would control Lavastorm or whatever. Since there is lore/story and stuff going on, would be pretty hard to have it working if some random guild controlled everything. Could see it working in non-story "zones" where people are free to build and destroy stuff without interfering with the core game though.

    Still yet to be seen how PVP will or won't impact EQN. Could be meaningless to the overall game or optional or whatever random way they go about it.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,821

    There are claim flags. There are capture point flags. There are claims. All in Landmark right now. 

     

    edit-That being said this group may find a way to screw it all up. 

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Landmark claim flag = EVE control system?
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,821
    Originally posted by Allein
    Landmark claim flag = EVE control system?

    I don't see why not man. It's all there. If they had a pvp island and the game was optimized well enough to support adjoined claims and large battles. If it was, right now there could be guild owned (or individual) land with capture point flags. 

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Anything is possible. Guess for the core of EQN, I don't see EVE-like control, but some sort of frontier area it could work. Still waiting to see what they plan to do with PVP, so far it sounds like they are going the safe "fun" aka meaningless route. Which is fine as I'd rather they go that way then try to make it be important and screw it up.
  • NodboNNodboN Member UncommonPosts: 50
    it'll probably be whatever doesn't make a 9 year old cry
  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 

     

    Source?

     

    It's my understanding that there will be player owned land in EQN but will have to be earned through adventures (deed from a Baron, etc.). I'm not certain about free building though, most likely approved templates from Landmark.

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 

    EQ:NExt will have building but not in the same way as Landmark. I think it will involve pre-designed buildings instead of the building they have in landmark at the moment. This is to stop little kids making a building in the shape of a knob.

    From what the devs have said EQ:N will have land ownership for clans and so on as for pvp it will be there but they have not release much info about it.

    Actually there is very little info about EQ:N out there at the moment other than what devs have said at different shows over the years.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    Originally posted by NodboN
    it'll probably be whatever doesn't make a 9 year old cry

    This!

     

    Because basically they want their game to be successful and not Darkfall 3.

     

    This is Everquest and Sony..... get a grip people!    Just hope for a separate server with PvP ruleset.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 

    EQ:NExt will have building but not in the same way as Landmark. I think it will involve pre-designed buildings instead of the building they have in landmark at the moment. This is to stop little kids making a building in the shape of a knob.

    From what the devs have said EQ:N will have land ownership for clans and so on as for pvp it will be there but they have not release much info about it.

    Actually there is very little info about EQ:N out there at the moment other than what devs have said at different shows over the years.

    That is about right for what we know so far. It has been stated a few times 'there WILL be land ownership and building' but as mentioned, it will probably be pre-defined structures rather then freeform as in Landmark.

    This has all yet to be completely confirmed though so the system is really just guesswork from the devs stating that there will be land ownership and building and hints over 'how awesome that could be for PvP'.

    Till they release more info though it is pretty much speculation above land claims and building in general.

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by NodboN
    it'll probably be whatever doesn't make a 9 year old cry

    This!

     

    Because basically they want their game to be successful and not Darkfall 3.

     

    This is Everquest and Sony..... get a grip people!    Just hope for a separate server with PvP ruleset.

    I don't see why having separate rule sets could be seen as a bad thing.

    So we can all play on whatever server rule set we like and the 9 year olds that don't cry can have a PvP rule set, best of both worlds :)

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 

    You might want to tell the devs that...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMYGpavmGcE&list=UU7tcHJ4Xq0Glc8vVhOrXt4g

    They've given no specifics on PVP yet beyond it exists, unless you have a source. Safe to assume they will have multiple server types and methods to participate in PVP like every other game. They've alluded to player/guild created structures to use in siege warfare and several other "would be nice" comments, but no "This is how it is" statements yet.

    From the various comments they've made, I'm guessing we'll see the core story/lore areas with all the rally calls, dev cities, NPCs, quests, most mobs, etc but then have either open world or instanced player freedom zones. Allowing players to build a home, village, city, whatever. PVP could play in here, but I'm assuming it will be mostly consensual style. Much like Landmark, with players building arenas within cities for people to bet and compete, castles to "fight" over in friendly or not so friendly competitions, etc.

    They've shown floating islands in concept art, could easily see this be where players are able to build. So it sort of makes sense that you have to teleport there and it isn't part of the open world as a whole. Instead of just walking 100 miles East and you load into Player Zone 23A.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         I think some of you are getting Landmark and EQN confused..    Landmark is a playground building game.. Yes, there are claim flags for guilds to have fun building whatever they wish..  BUT..   There will be NO BUILDING anything in EQN..  Have some of you forgotten that?  NOTHING gets into EQN without the devs putting it in..  There will be no single player or guild flags in EQN..  NO OWNERSHIP of land or control of it..  As I recall, PvP will be consensual only.. 

    You might want to tell the devs that...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMYGpavmGcE&list=UU7tcHJ4Xq0Glc8vVhOrXt4g

    They've given no specifics on PVP yet beyond it exists, unless you have a source. Safe to assume they will have multiple server types and methods to participate in PVP like every other game. They've alluded to player/guild created structures to use in siege warfare and several other "would be nice" comments, but no "This is how it is" statements yet.

    From the various comments they've made, I'm guessing we'll see the core story/lore areas with all the rally calls, dev cities, NPCs, quests, most mobs, etc but then have either open world or instanced player freedom zones. Allowing players to build a home, village, city, whatever. PVP could play in here, but I'm assuming it will be mostly consensual style. Much like Landmark, with players building arenas within cities for people to bet and compete, castles to "fight" over in friendly or not so friendly competitions, etc.

    They've shown floating islands in concept art, could easily see this be where players are able to build. So it sort of makes sense that you have to teleport there and it isn't part of the open world as a whole. Instead of just walking 100 miles East and you load into Player Zone 23A.

         My statement was very accurate as of last year, however I see that SOE has waffled a little on their position.. But that being said it was clear Mr Butler said there are limits to what they will allow of who and where things get put into the world..  People will NOT have the option to go grab a flag and go out in the open world and put up a castle anywhere they want..  It was very clear from Mr Butler that they do not want players effecting the world AI  by building structures..  It was hinted to that there might be pockets of land where only PRE-APPROVED structures can be erected.. That is where Landmark comes in..  As I recall, from last year, Landmark was to be the creation system for items to get on the CASH SHOP for EQN..  This way players can sell their creations to other players via cash shop and SOE gets a commission.. 

         Again there is NO creation tool for EQN..  Only approved structures from Landmark will see any light of day..  If you want to build the Washington Monument with a tree house on top, you'll have to do it in Landmark.. But this isn't to say SOE won't change their minds again next year, and allow people some form of instanced player land areas.. (sorta like mini Landmark zones) .. lol 

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    Originally posted by Rydeson

     

         My statement was very accurate as of last year

    So you have been arguing back and forth on various threads about Landmark and EQN and you are basing your comments on information from last year!!!!!

    [mod edit]

    , however I see that SOE has waffled a little on their position.. But that being said it was clear Mr Butler said there are limits to what they will allow of who and where things get put into the world.. 

    Actually the statement has been they are looking at what sorts of limits, If any, to decide upon. It is still not a firm decision.

    People will NOT have the option to go grab a flag and go out in the open world and put up a castle anywhere they want.. 

    Still not confirmed or denied with absolute commitment.

    It was very clear from Mr Butler that they do not want players effecting the world AI  by building structures.. 

    That is not clear at all. In fact conversations about the NPC's attacking your structures has been mentioned a number of times. So while they may have been vague they certainly show that your statement is inaccurate.

    It was hinted to that there might be pockets of land where only PRE-APPROVED structures can be erected..

    Hinted yes but no firm commitment made so far as to the limits or scope of how they are dealing with it.

    That is where Landmark comes in..  As I recall, from last year, Landmark was to be the creation system for items to get on the CASH SHOP for EQN..  This way players can sell their creations to other players via cash shop and SOE gets a commission.. 

    Player creations and SOE creations. An open market for the best products.

         Again there is NO creation tool for EQN.. 

    Not completely accurate. It is still open as to how building in EQN will be handled as the tools used in Landmark are being designed for use in EQN.

    Only approved structures from Landmark will see any light of day.. 

    Again not confirmed but likely if they stick to a restricted building system.

    If you want to build the Washington Monument with a tree house on top, you'll have to do it in Landmark.. But this isn't to say SOE won't change their minds again next year, and allow people some form of instanced player land areas.. (sorta like mini Landmark zones) .. lol 

    Yes, bad SOE for giving players as many options as possible.

     

    Sorry but post after post of faulty information, ill made conclusions and baseless assumptions should not be allowed here!!!

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Originally posted by Rydeson

         My statement was very accurate as of last year, however I see that SOE has waffled a little on their position.. But that being said it was clear Mr Butler said there are limits to what they will allow of who and where things get put into the world..  People will NOT have the option to go grab a flag and go out in the open world and put up a castle anywhere they want..  It was very clear from Mr Butler that they do not want players effecting the world AI  by building structures..  It was hinted to that there might be pockets of land where only PRE-APPROVED structures can be erected.. That is where Landmark comes in..  As I recall, from last year, Landmark was to be the creation system for items to get on the CASH SHOP for EQN..  This way players can sell their creations to other players via cash shop and SOE gets a commission.. 

         Again there is NO creation tool for EQN..  Only approved structures from Landmark will see any light of day..  If you want to build the Washington Monument with a tree house on top, you'll have to do it in Landmark.. But this isn't to say SOE won't change their minds again next year, and allow people some form of instanced player land areas.. (sorta like mini Landmark zones) .. lol 

    While I'm too lazy to dig, I'm pretty sure DG made comments early on about the potential of building in EQN. Most of the hints to PVP have actually alluded to what players can build, along the lines of "You can build, you can destroy, what do you think PVP will be like."

    So many hints and wink wink comments, that we really don't have a lot to go on. Although I do not believe they ever said "There is no building in EQN" or "Building works like this...." All still pretty up in the air. Even that vid I linked doesn't say much.

    You comment about flags is half correct from what I've seen. No players won't have total freedom to where they build, but they will be able to obtain flags in whatever way and place them in designated areas. Those that instantly assumed players would have total freedom in the game because "sandbox" was thrown around were moving a bit too fast. EQN is still a story driven mmorpg and there are limitations on what players can do.

    Butler in the video said he would like players to be able to build like Landmark, not sure where you are getting the "NO creation tool from."

    Much like I've said, I assume EQN will be like most mmorpgs. Building will be off in either designated build zones away from the core gameplay or in instances of some sort. I'm going with either open world or at least very large instances, not Wildstar anti-social style.

    Regardless, none of this has much to do with PVP yet as we really don't know enough on either subject to make "fact" statements. I make assumptions based on what I've seen (updated info mind you), but feel free to state "facts" with the little details we know.

    Honestly don't care much on either end. While I'm a PVPer at heart, I've grown bored of how it is done now a days and even older systems like DAoC don't give me the same excitement. Throw in some arenas/BGs (dev and player built), have a PVP server and be done with it. If I want to "PVP" I'll play a game designed around it. While Landmark is a good game for what it is, if I wanted to build, I'd play it. Don't see myself spending hours perfecting my home's furniture or even joining a guild to focused on it. The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Allein
    The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

         And that is the trick to all this working, or not working, but you are catching on to my issue and concern..  As I said long ago in one of my many threads is that the AI  will be dumbed down to what the player base demands..  Storybrick AI is really nothing new.. Many companies have toyed with the idea of making AI more difficult and complex, but have always backed off when it showed it was causing issues with the player base..  Blizzard ran into that years ago when they played AI in combat to be more engaging and dynamic and the player base SCREAMED it was too difficult, and Blizzard did what everyone has done in the past and that was back down and make the combat AI easier..  It is all about the numbers and $$$$..   If Storybricks ends up being too unpredictable and complex, to the point it makes players uncomfortable, guess what?   NERF .. 

         Even myself, i will only tolerate so much emergent AI before I call next..  I grew playing an EQ Druid, so I know all about traveling and exploring the world, and taking on mobs wherever I find them.. HOWEVER, I do enjoy certain fixed location where I know I can kite and find action..  Using EQ as an example.. If I farmed the Giants in Everfrost too much that they went away.. grrrrrrrrrr .. or another location I liked before I quit was Skyfire.. If I farmed the wyvern and wurms too much they kept on moving to a new location that I had to go look for.. Again, GRRRR and I was seriously thinking of quitting faster then I did..  Most players enjoy predictable words to a degree, and if you make the world TOO RANDOM, too quickly and players have to go searching for something to do, many will just quit and move on.. 

        That is what I mean when I say if the player base finds that Storybricks is too random and unpredictable, they'll demand changes or quit, and do you really SOE will tell the LARGEST part of the player base, "Play our way or leave"??  Time will tell and we'll see who wins playing chicken.. I predict SOE will be the one to back down..  But who knows, the AI can turn out to be so minor that it's almost unseen/unnoticed.. 

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Allein
    The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

         And that is the trick to all this working, or not working, but you are catching on to my issue and concern..  As I said long ago in one of my many threads is that the AI  will be dumbed down to what the player base demands..  Storybrick AI is really nothing new..

    If you seriously believe Storybricks AI is nothing new then you have no idea where game AI currently stands and just how revolutionary their system is. Go look it up.

    Many companies have toyed with the idea of making AI more difficult and complex, but have always backed off when it showed it was causing issues with the player base..  Blizzard ran into that years ago when they played AI in combat to be more engaging and dynamic and the player base SCREAMED it was too difficult, and Blizzard did what everyone has done in the past and that was back down and make the combat AI easier..  It is all about the numbers and $$$$..   If Storybricks ends up being too unpredictable and complex, to the point it makes players uncomfortable, guess what?   NERF .. 

    You mean if the AI of the mobs becomes as unpredictable as say...other players...

         Even myself, i will only tolerate so much emergent AI before I call next..  I grew playing an EQ Druid, so I know all about traveling and exploring the world, and taking on mobs wherever I find them.. HOWEVER, I do enjoy certain fixed location where I know I can kite and find action..  Using EQ as an example.. If I farmed the Giants in Everfrost too much that they went away.. grrrrrrrrrr ..

    Then you will have to hunt them down in another place. Brain teaser huh!

    THIS GAME IS NOT GOING TO PLAY LIKE A MINDLESS GRIND THAT YOU SEEM SO KEEN TO FIGHT FOR.

    or another location I liked before I quit was Skyfire.. If I farmed the wyvern and wurms too much they kept on moving to a new location that I had to go look for.. Again, GRRRR and I was seriously thinking of quitting faster then I did..  Most players enjoy predictable words to a degree, and if you make the world TOO RANDOM, too quickly and players have to go searching for something to do, many will just quit and move on.. 

        That is what I mean when I say if the player base finds that Storybricks is too random and unpredictable, they'll demand changes or quit, and do you really SOE will tell the LARGEST part of the player base, "Play our way or leave"??  Time will tell and we'll see who wins playing chicken.. I predict SOE will be the one to back down..  But who knows, the AI can turn out to be so minor that it's almost unseen/unnoticed.. 

    It is obvious this game is not what you want, and will not be what you want. It is not going to be a static spawn, boring grind game where combat is faceroll and the world is unchanging. It is a NEW way of bringing the fun and excitement back to MMO's and if that is not what you want then stick to playing the games that have been around for the last 15 years and don't give this game a second thought.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Allein
    The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

         And that is the trick to all this working, or not working, but you are catching on to my issue and concern..  As I said long ago in one of my many threads is that the AI  will be dumbed down to what the player base demands..  Storybrick AI is really nothing new..

    SOE said it a long time ago, the AI is the secret sauce. Without it, they just have another potentially fun mmorpg to play for however long people can until something new and shiny comes along. At least this is how I feel, I have no loyalty to a company or franchise. I play a game if it is fun to me for as long as I can.

    I disagree that SB is nothing new. Companies toying with it or whatever is not the same thing as fleshing it out and putting it into a AAA game.

    We currently have no idea how it will really work in a functional game. While they've said and I hope it plays into combat itself quite a bit, it seems the AI's strongest element is the non-combat stuff. The whole cliche "living world" idea. If they can really pull that off, it will be a big step forward beyond the "dynamic events" in other games that are just long multi step static events for the most part.

    You seem to be more concerned with the combat difficulty itself. I agree that if it is too hard or too random, people will complain. We have no clue how it will be though. I'm betting through the use of the Tiers and procedurally generated content, that the range of difficulty/challenge will be decent. So everyone will have something to do instead of the typical vertical power game with all the "best" and more exciting stuff being in the "hard" range.

    They seem fully aware of player skill. During SOE Live they mentioned that they could simply crank up the difficulty if players outpaced the challenge. Doesn't mean they have to crank it to 11 for the entire game or lower everything down to 1 if some players can't handle it. Simple have different difficulty levels.

    I think a lot of people want a challenge and as seen with the combat they have gone with, getting away from things like standing around with auto-aim is a step in the right direction. Doesn't mean I want AI that instantly stomps my face, but I want to feel like I've actually won something as well. Everyone complains about games that have faceroll combat, lets see if they can handle something a bit more challenging for once. No need to make a game universally hard or easy, which seems to be a big mistake companies go with either at the start or down the line. Hoping SOE thinks a bit different.

    As far as the randomness or mobs moving around. Shouldn't be too random if we know upfront that if we over farm a area, they'll be gone or move away. It is by design. Which could lead to some interesting things. Do you kill the entire Orc camp or leave a few to regroup? Do you kill these Orcs non stop for a week or do you spread your killing blows around the world? I don't know enough about the world itself to make any real opinions. We still don't know what or if there are goals to be heading for or what the point of it all is. Is grinding for faction a thing or grinding for a particular item worth while? I'm assuming they have put a bit of thought into all of this and it will make more sense over time.

    Then again if you simply prefer having some static spawns or knowing you can always find a giant in a particular part of the world, maybe they'll have some of that to. I'm highly doubting the game is going to be a total random chaotic mess. With Ice Giants hanging out in Lavastorm or Griffons flying around at the bottom of the world in Tier 5. Some of it will have to make logical sense. I hope.

  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113
    Why would you farm? There are no levels. Are you sure you are arguing the right game? I think you should be in the Final Fantasy 14 forums the way you describing a game. Nothing is going to hold this back. I dont care how many man-childs they'll have to upset. They simply found a better system and they arent after your money. They're after greatness.

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113

    I cannot believe people cannot see they have to get rid of the quest system and make an entirely new system. Where the quests find you, all in a very intelligent, meaningful, and overall better system to the game, game's objective and realism. They also had to get rid of the levels, and scale it more realisticly from static increases to evolving where i mean, adventure and luck and skill play in more. But people aren't talking about this stuff. They are talking about trivial supposed "problems" which they even haven't scratched the armor of the game. Buts thats ok, They haven't seen a beast quite like EQN before. I have a feeling you'll understand if you are willing to go in. There can be phisological discussions of the armor system where more hits means more chances to "hit through" and eat up health. Armor doesn't just mitigate a number that represents your health in points. It actually protects you fully and regenrates the better you do and goes down or away the worse you do. There are spells like shadowknight's Dark Mantle which regenerates armor over time greatly in exchange for health and makes the shadowknight seem impermeable and evil with as little of imagination as to pull that off. I trouble myself with this stuff. Instead of arguing "The State of Video Games" It just seems more fun.

     

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Markusrind
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Allein
    The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

         And that is the trick to all this working, or not working, but you are catching on to my issue and concern..  As I said long ago in one of my many threads is that the AI  will be dumbed down to what the player base demands..  Storybrick AI is really nothing new..

    If you seriously believe Storybricks AI is nothing new then you have no idea where game AI currently stands and just how revolutionary their system is. Go look it up.  A more complex dynamic AI is nothing new.. Not sure why you are being so argumentative about it..

    Many companies have toyed with the idea of making AI more difficult and complex, but have always backed off when it showed it was causing issues with the player base..  Blizzard ran into that years ago when they played AI in combat to be more engaging and dynamic and the player base SCREAMED it was too difficult, and Blizzard did what everyone has done in the past and that was back down and make the combat AI easier..  It is all about the numbers and $$$$..   If Storybricks ends up being too unpredictable and complex, to the point it makes players uncomfortable, guess what?   NERF .. 

    You mean if the AI of the mobs becomes as unpredictable as say...other players... Other companies have already tried it and players hated it.. That is exactly part of the issue.. If the NPC become unpredictable to a point that players have to spend time to FIND content all the time.. It WILL become a game breaking issue for many..  Not sure why you are arguing with me on this.. I have NO firm position yes or no.. I'm just stating problems that will occur if not watched.

         Even myself, i will only tolerate so much emergent AI before I call next..  I grew playing an EQ Druid, so I know all about traveling and exploring the world, and taking on mobs wherever I find them.. HOWEVER, I do enjoy certain fixed location where I know I can kite and find action..  Using EQ as an example.. If I farmed the Giants in Everfrost too much that they went away.. grrrrrrrrrr ..

    Then you will have to hunt them down in another place. Brain teaser huh! Again, as above.. MOST gamers will not tolerate spending time searching for the unpredictable and unknown.. OH, it's cute the first time of discovery, but if you have to do it too often, it will be a game breaker..  MOST games prefer consistancy in their entertainment to a point.. 

    THIS GAME IS NOT GOING TO PLAY LIKE A MINDLESS GRIND THAT YOU SEEM SO KEEN TO FIGHT FOR.  I have made NO claim to such.. so don't put words in my mouth that were never said..

    or another location I liked before I quit was Skyfire.. If I farmed the wyvern and wurms too much they kept on moving to a new location that I had to go look for.. Again, GRRRR and I was seriously thinking of quitting faster then I did..  Most players enjoy predictable words to a degree, and if you make the world TOO RANDOM, too quickly and players have to go searching for something to do, many will just quit and move on.. 

        That is what I mean when I say if the player base finds that Storybricks is too random and unpredictable, they'll demand changes or quit, and do you really SOE will tell the LARGEST part of the player base, "Play our way or leave"??  Time will tell and we'll see who wins playing chicken.. I predict SOE will be the one to back down..  But who knows, the AI can turn out to be so minor that it's almost unseen/unnoticed.. 

    It is obvious this game is not what you want, and will not be what you want. It is not going to be a static spawn, boring grind game where combat is faceroll and the world is unchanging. It is a NEW way of bringing the fun and excitement back to MMO's and if that is not what you want then stick to playing the games that have been around for the last 15 years and don't give this game a second thought.

    I never made claims to what you are arguing about..  You are borderline on crossing forum rules... Lets stay on topic of issues and NOT make it personal.. 

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Allein
    The AI is what I'm after and if it doesn't turn out so well, EQN will just be another game for me.

         And that is the trick to all this working, or not working, but you are catching on to my issue and concern..  As I said long ago in one of my many threads is that the AI  will be dumbed down to what the player base demands..  Storybrick AI is really nothing new..

    SOE said it a long time ago, the AI is the secret sauce. Without it, they just have another potentially fun mmorpg to play for however long people can until something new and shiny comes along. At least this is how I feel, I have no loyalty to a company or franchise. I play a game if it is fun to me for as long as I can.

    I disagree that SB is nothing new. Companies toying with it or whatever is not the same thing as fleshing it out and putting it into a AAA game.

    We currently have no idea how it will really work in a functional game. While they've said and I hope it plays into combat itself quite a bit, it seems the AI's strongest element is the non-combat stuff. The whole cliche "living world" idea. If they can really pull that off, it will be a big step forward beyond the "dynamic events" in other games that are just long multi step static events for the most part.

    You seem to be more concerned with the combat difficulty itself. I agree that if it is too hard or too random, people will complain. We have no clue how it will be though. I'm betting through the use of the Tiers and procedurally generated content, that the range of difficulty/challenge will be decent. So everyone will have something to do instead of the typical vertical power game with all the "best" and more exciting stuff being in the "hard" range.

    They seem fully aware of player skill. During SOE Live they mentioned that they could simply crank up the difficulty if players outpaced the challenge. Doesn't mean they have to crank it to 11 for the entire game or lower everything down to 1 if some players can't handle it. Simple have different difficulty levels.

    I think a lot of people want a challenge and as seen with the combat they have gone with, getting away from things like standing around with auto-aim is a step in the right direction. Doesn't mean I want AI that instantly stomps my face, but I want to feel like I've actually won something as well. Everyone complains about games that have faceroll combat, lets see if they can handle something a bit more challenging for once. No need to make a game universally hard or easy, which seems to be a big mistake companies go with either at the start or down the line. Hoping SOE thinks a bit different.

    As far as the randomness or mobs moving around. Shouldn't be too random if we know upfront that if we over farm a area, they'll be gone or move away. It is by design. Which could lead to some interesting things. Do you kill the entire Orc camp or leave a few to regroup? Do you kill these Orcs non stop for a week or do you spread your killing blows around the world? I don't know enough about the world itself to make any real opinions. We still don't know what or if there are goals to be heading for or what the point of it all is. Is grinding for faction a thing or grinding for a particular item worth while? I'm assuming they have put a bit of thought into all of this and it will make more sense over time.

    Then again if you simply prefer having some static spawns or knowing you can always find a giant in a particular part of the world, maybe they'll have some of that to. I'm highly doubting the game is going to be a total random chaotic mess. With Ice Giants hanging out in Lavastorm or Griffons flying around at the bottom of the world in Tier 5. Some of it will have to make logical sense. I hope.

         I"m not going to get into details, because I'll be rehashing everything again and we'll be back to step 1..  However that red part I highlighted is the reason I responded..  YOU said exactly the concern you seem to be debating me on.. YOU nor I or anyone , NOT EVEN SONY THEMSELVES know how any of this will play out in a fully run game..  Everything said by you, me and everyone is possibilties and probable outcomes..  What everyone says caries the same weight of conviction and truth.. I have NEVER once said you were wrong, I have always said, BECAREFUL  because as a devils advocate if you do NOT prepared for what can go wrong, it will go wrong..  "MURPHY'S LAW"..  

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Why would you farm? There are no levels. Are you sure you are arguing the right game? I think you should be in the Final Fantasy 14 forums the way you describing a game. Nothing is going to hold this back. I dont care how many man-childs they'll have to upset. They simply found a better system and they arent after your money. They're after greatness.

         You do realize people farm for other things other then XP, right?   Farming is quite common for people that want to work on factions and crafting..  I have a hint for you.. If you want to unlock the new Paladin class and farming evil orcs is the quickest way to get there, guess what?   A farming I will go.. a farming I will go.. hi ho the cheerio a farming I will go..    If you want to working faster on that Rallying call in supplying the new city with pelts , gold or whatever,  Time go go farming..  Does that help you?

  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113
    Its going to be different because mobs move, and so the do quests move. Farming for faction is doing different quests and you build up a rep and do more quests. If Im unlocking a class i do as many different quests as possible than the quest will appear to unlock then ill take it. It doesn't necessarily have to be "reduce mobs in an area". It can be other things as long as it satisfies the resource "might, wealth, justice" etc that the npc group longs for to control the area. It is said at level 5 you do different menial tasks compared to what a level 100 would do and you still help out the same way storywise. It is also said there is more than one npc that unlocks a class. If one of them gets killed, his brother might take over for instance. They are trying to make this less static as possible. Even named mobs like a named orc chieftain gets killed, another orc from his tribe steps up and he is never seen in norrath again. This makes for a better immersion if the world is more believable.

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

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