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[Column] Guild Wars 2: New Players Will Have It Rough

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 29,719

September is here, which means Guild Wars 2 is going to go through some big changes.  Lately PvP has been the center of attention, with new features announced, and the launch of some exciting tournaments.  However, we saw a huge shift this past week, showing more attention towards making the game more appealing to new players, but will these changes actually work?

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: New Players Will Have It Rough.

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Imagine not being able to use waypoints. Very scary, I know.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • MarcelinoMarcelino Member UncommonPosts: 122

    When i started playing my Elementalist i really enjoyed the game, when I got to lv 20 i kept dying in the solo story content and i couldn't work out why so i put a video on youtube for my friend to watch.

    Him: "Why are you not dodging..."

    Me: "Dodge?? Say whaaaaaa....???"

  • saurus123saurus123 Member UncommonPosts: 653
    but the game teach you how to dodge soo you must miss that part ;p
  • obocoboc Member UncommonPosts: 189

    What is this ? The 10th time they've redone the same content. 

    Oh well, you still more out of this game for 30 bucks then any game on planet. 

    Good work, I guess ? 

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552

    Ugh. There is no worse way to   do tutorials than like this by locking off part of the game until you're supposedly ready for it.  It doesn't actually teach anything it's just annoying. Agree with the author here. You could easily redesign that  starter instance to teach players everything they would need for the first 10 or so levels of the game. 

    I remember the new player experience in GW2 actually being the probably best I've seen in any MMO. Why would they change it like this?

     

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,712
    GW2 would actually be the perfect game to start new players off in a zone that's also useful to higher level players. Given their whole level syncing mechanic.

    image
  • RocketdonkeyRocketdonkey Member Posts: 1
    My only gripe is that it seems like forever lvling up ... I run out of doable atoryli e cuz I become too low of a lvl and helping everyone in the area is done so that just leaves events which are scattered throughout everything so I feel like everything lvl 10+ drags a little I kinda wish they would add a little more content especially when you can't start the dungeons until lvl 30 I think ... Maybe I'm just lvling wrong
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,139
    Originally posted by oboc
    What is this ? The 10th time they've redone the same content.  Oh well, you still more out of this game for 30 bucks then any game on planet.  Good work, I guess ? 

    That's a gross overstatment~ Anarchy Online has zones filled with content and it's larger than the entire world of GW2.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • AsamofAsamof Member UncommonPosts: 824
    Originally posted by Rocketdonkey
    My only gripe is that it seems like forever lvling up ... I run out of doable atoryli e cuz I become too low of a lvl and helping everyone in the area is done so that just leaves events which are scattered throughout everything so I feel like everything lvl 10+ drags a little I kinda wish they would add a little more content especially when you can't start the dungeons until lvl 30 I think ... Maybe I'm just lvling wrong

    Either lvl between two zones, or level crafting. Leveling crafting will give you HUGE level gains + best gear/benefits for your level

  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member UncommonPosts: 643
    Wow, just when i thought one of my top games could not die even more. I have a level 80, and i have been playing since launch. Honestly locking waypoints will NOT help new people but hinder them. Seems anet is losing sight of what they want to do and is not just blindly adding crap in to the game.

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  • raapnaapraapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by jircris
    Wow, just when i thought one of my top games could not die even more. I have a level 80, and i have been playing since launch. Honestly locking waypoints will NOT help new people but hinder them. Seems anet is losing sight of what they want to do and is not just blindly adding crap in to the game.

    They have been losing sight for two years now. Quite honestly I'm surprised they can still see anything at all.

     

    Anyhow, it's a waste of text to say anything more, dead horse and all that.

  • LudwikLudwik Member UncommonPosts: 407
    This is where dev communication would really come in handy. Some kind of insight into why and for what purpose this update is being presented would alleviate concerns.
  • Rayzer235Rayzer235 Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    This is where dev communication would really come in handy. Some kind of insight into why and for what purpose this update is being presented would alleviate concerns.

    Actually they did communicate why they made these changes on reddit.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/ck35771

    Yeah we thought so too. After tens of thousands of usability testers and interviews with players who tried Gw2 and left leading up to China launch both in NA/EU and in China - we learned we were wrong.

     

    Honestly, we were kind of shocked how many systems, downed included a surprising number of players just didn't understand. For downed, we tried a downed tutorial, building downed into the level 1 tutorial, etc. We found after usability testing with numerous different groups, the best rate of people learning and understanding it came from having it be layered complexity and the solution we went with above. Intuitively that wouldn't have been my guess either initially, but we found people understood it better this way than all other options we tried.

     

    This same level of testing led to the other changes as well. At the end of the day the biggest take away I'd say is: all of us, especially people who go to a reddit to discuss a game, probably know games (and Gw2) really really well. We have millions of users, and a tiny % of them frequent game forums or reddit. Just because all of us, me included, learned those systems well and thought it was all really easy doesn't mean we are the norm ;)

     

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/ck35jpy

     

    I think that's a totally fair question, as a veteran user I'd wonder that too - why does making the game better for new users benefit me when I want features that benefit me?

     

    The simple answer is: by ensuring the game foundation is solid for new users, we'll be in a place after the feature pack where we can do the kind of things that excite both veteran and new users simultaneously, and we'll be able to retain a much larger percentage of the new or long returning users when they show up. Can't say anything more than that yet - but that's the thinking, you don't need to agree with it, but it's important to know why the decision was made!

     

     
     
  • Rayzer235Rayzer235 Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by jircris
    Wow, just when i thought one of my top games could not die even more. I have a level 80, and i have been playing since launch. Honestly locking waypoints will NOT help new people but hinder them. Seems anet is losing sight of what they want to do and is not just blindly adding crap in to the game.  

    Waypoints aren't being locked out....

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,357
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by oboc
    What is this ? The 10th time they've redone the same content.  Oh well, you still more out of this game for 30 bucks then any game on planet.  Good work, I guess ? 

    That's a gross overstatment~ Anarchy Online has zones filled with content and it's larger than the entire world of GW2.

    Yeah AO has massive deserts with copy and pasted large spaces with absolutely nothing in them, BUT IT SURE IS A BIG GAME!

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592
    This entire update is nothing but BS doublespeak. It has nothing to do with refining the new player experience and everything to do with gating and slowing the influx of new Chinese players to wring as much money out of them as possible.

    <3

  • TatercakeTatercake Member UncommonPosts: 286
    redit realy redit lol i do not ever ever go there for game info
  • Arch280Arch280 Member Posts: 9
    Looks like adding a inconvience to new character's so they'll buy things like exp boosts so they get to level 10 or 15 faster so they can way point around. Guild Wars 2 is a buy ones to play game. It treating it's customer's like it's a free 2 play game all of the sudden is only going to hurt them. I agree with the reviewer the starting instance is best place to run tutorials to get player's to to be taught and practiced with the games mechanic but I wasn't affected by a lack of learning when I played the game for the first time. The games mechanics were easily understood by me through trial and error. What keeps me from playing is the fact that the game seems like work to me instead of just a experience that engages in fun for me. also, it's partly because of the lack of skill customization like the old GW and I don't have anyone I want to play with in GW2. I've found it's hard to make a friend in GW2 sense people go through the tasks so quickly there's very little time to talk about what they are doing or going to do before they leave.
  • Apollymi452Apollymi452 Member UncommonPosts: 35

    GW2 was one of the easiest games to learn to play in my opinion. If you actually read and follow the tutorial's instead of spamming the "esc" button you might learn to ...i don't know...say DODGE in the beginning levels!

    I bought GW2 for my roommate's birthday, and she had never really played an MMORPG like GW2 before. She came straight from MapleStory! She had it down pat in less then a week of play time, and now dodges and kites with the best of them.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Anet is really screwing players over with each feature pack, both newbs and vets.  First the trait locks, then this change to downed state.  Their solutions to these problems is to push back these mechanics until later levels (traits, downed state, etc.), but why?  Players aren't going to learn anything when it's introduced to them at later levels.  Instead of introducing the mechanics before they start, they are just delaying it.  This game keeps becoming unfriendly to alts as time goes on.  Sure, there is shared account mechanics and items, but the other parts of the game makes it unbearable to level up alts.
  • AdiarisAdiaris Member Posts: 381
    Bizarre. If they had asked me to pick one thing that is not a problem out of a list of 20 it would have been this.
  • LakytusLakytus Member Posts: 59
    Originally posted by Rayzer235
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    This is where dev communication would really come in handy. Some kind of insight into why and for what purpose this update is being presented would alleviate concerns.

    Actually they did communicate why they made these changes on reddit.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/ck35771

    Yeah we thought so too. After tens of thousands of usability testers and interviews with players who tried Gw2 and left leading up to China launch both in NA/EU and in China - we learned we were wrong.

     

    Honestly, we were kind of shocked how many systems, downed included a surprising number of players just didn't understand. For downed, we tried a downed tutorial, building downed into the level 1 tutorial, etc. We found after usability testing with numerous different groups, the best rate of people learning and understanding it came from having it be layered complexity and the solution we went with above. Intuitively that wouldn't have been my guess either initially, but we found people understood it better this way than all other options we tried.

     

    This same level of testing led to the other changes as well. At the end of the day the biggest take away I'd say is: all of us, especially people who go to a reddit to discuss a game, probably know games (and Gw2) really really well. We have millions of users, and a tiny % of them frequent game forums or reddit. Just because all of us, me included, learned those systems well and thought it was all really easy doesn't mean we are the norm ;)

     

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/ck35jpy

     

    I think that's a totally fair question, as a veteran user I'd wonder that too - why does making the game better for new users benefit me when I want features that benefit me?

     

    The simple answer is: by ensuring the game foundation is solid for new users, we'll be in a place after the feature pack where we can do the kind of things that excite both veteran and new users simultaneously, and we'll be able to retain a much larger percentage of the new or long returning users when they show up. Can't say anything more than that yet - but that's the thinking, you don't need to agree with it, but it's important to know why the decision was made!

     

     
     

     I really don't understand this. How can waypoints and downed state be too confusing? If the players they are trying to attract are that bad at games, then those players shouldn't be in that game, it just ruins the experience for everyone. Guild Wars 2 has one of the best experiences for a new player or character.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,684

    I can't say the changes sound good to me at all. After reading the last interview I'm not sure what is going through their heads. Let's see:

    1. Tengu as a playable race - something Guild Wars fans have wanted for years now.

    Dev Answer: not in the forseeable future because, um, well, we can't really say why.

    Yeah, that's an intelligent answer.

    2. Treasure Adventure Box - players loved this - they added it for whatever reason, spent a bunch of dev money and time on it and their answer?

    Dev Answer: Um, like, well, it doesn't fit the world, so yeah, we're not, um, going to add it in. Maybe someday for an event, I guess, who knows, but we can't say.

    So people like a feature you added, want it to be permanent, but it doesn't fit your world. Why did you waste time making it?

    3. (From this article) Gates and Blocks to Early Character Progression - No one asked for this.

    Dev Answer: ...but since we're not going to do the stuff you asked for, we're going to do this. Our data metrics say so.

    Yeah, that makes sense. Seriously I don't get these guys right now. I don't know how gating things people aren't getting will help them get it any better just because they have to wait. It just seems dumb to me.

    The new player experience was pretty good in my opinion. I could go do whatever I wanted after the initial tutorial. It was pretty nice.

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  • jdizzle2k13jdizzle2k13 Member UncommonPosts: 251

    Yeah, I thought it was pretty easy to learn the downed state and everything.  I don't know if they're gimping themselves with this new method, but I highly doubt that things like waypoints and the downed state should be that overwhelming for the average gamer.

    Then again, they're supposedly basing it on feed back they received, so I guess there is a reason for it.

    Doesn't mean I like it.  But then, all my characters are past 30 now, so I don't have to worry about it anyway.

    And if someone gets into the game and has a friend that plays it shouldn't be too big an issue.  Idk about those that come in alone.

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  • akuma696akuma696 Member UncommonPosts: 55
    One thing they should rather focus on teaching players is how to god dam use combos esp comboing fields and blast finishers. I know people who have played the game since launch and still dont understand what blast finishers and fields are. Well lvl 20 scrolls for all my new characters 
  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,511

    Yeap... if they did a tutorial right at the start before you go fight centaurs or ghosts or Inquest, the game would definitely be less daunting.

    For instance, they could down you right at the start to show you the downed state, they could prompt you to dodge so you know what dodging is.

    Then again, people tend to skip tutorials because they think they've played every MMO before so this route might be because of that.

    This is not a game.

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