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Is Gaming Leaving Gamers Behind? [linked article]

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  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662

    Time.

    Time is the only thing you can blame for your predicament.

    Time waits for no man.

    As you get older, it seems you have less of it.

     

    For instance, imagine if the old mmorpgs were like high school reunions (I know you hate them). And during your last year of high school, you couldn't wait to see what your friends have been up to. First 5 year mark, 90% of your former classmates show up. Things are lively, fun and there is so much catching up to do. Then the 10 year mark comes around and only 70% of your classmates show up. You immediately notice the drop in attendance. And although you enjoy yourself, more conversations are about why people didn't show up rather than catching up.

    Now the 15 year mark is here and only 35% of your classmates are there and it feels more like a funeral than a party. You make note to yourself that you may not show up next year. Especially when everyone seems to have moved on and it's taking more effort to get people to show up.  Now 20 years have passed and even though everything seemed to have been in place, only a handful of people show. Ten people out of a class of 200...depressing yes.

     

    UO is dead. The connections just aren't there anymore and even if you wanted to go back, what would you be going back to? There are no guilds there you recognize, no people from your time and no way to reconnect with them. And this is what the old guard are really trying to get devs to create. Recreate my 5 year high school reunion!

    If you just do that, hundreds of people will show up. But what these old guard fail to realize is just like your experience in UO, high school reunions are very personalized. They were not the same enjoyable experiences that you may have had. This is why as time marches on less people show up. Experiences may varies. So people convinced themselves that even if they don't show up, they won't be missed anyway. Which is more so for old mmorpgs than they are for reunions. No one will miss you if you stop logging in.

     

    So wake up old guard. It's true that no one wants to play UO anymore, but it's because it's like going to a 30 year class reunion and only having people there you really didn't talk to in high school in the first place. You can try to blame it on expansions, nerfs, updates or clueless devs. But time is the only culprit here. Most people have grown beyond UO...and class reunions.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,212
    1) is there enough old guard for a developer to justify the price of a AAA gane for them?

    2) movie analogy some used about movies still be 2-3 hours and people still watch them is flawed. Less are going to movies but the movie stays the same thanks to IMAX and 3D prices. They never give stats of tickets bought cause those are dropping. People more watch online or at home than Iin movie theaters so they can control the time spent. Much like people want single player Iin games to control their time spent.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,826
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik
    That's the one message I wish I could beat into the heads of some of the regular posters around here. MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk. So coming on here and being a lazy, whiney jerk isn't exactly helping the cause.

    Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?
    Hey, thanks for proving my point and being a good example.

     

    I didn't say the newer generation doesn't want to interact with other players. I said the newer generation doesn't want to interact with players who bring up stall 10+ year old arguments that were stupid when they were first created.

    Why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME if you don't want to interact with whiney jerks?

    HAHAHAHA! As if that question deserves anything other than a troll response.


    wow. just... wow. Your logic beats me. I have no possible response since you believe I proved your point. You win :)
    I think he was trying to refer to you as a whiney complainer within the context of your post. But I thought it was a legitimate question.
    It must be just me, then. I still do not get the logic (or point) :)

     

    I meant, the question, you asked was legit. Why play an MMO for a single player experience?

     

    It's not really that simple.  There are elements of single player games that people just like to experience.  They want to experience those things, but with a bunch of other people around, in the same game, in the same world at the same time.  Talking to people, trading with people, and just seeing other real people are all part of it.  That is what makes the experience a "Massively Multiplayer" experience.  All the other stuff is just details.  You could have an MMORPG without Raids, Heroic Dungeons, Open World Bosses, etc.  In fact, they already exist.

     

    So the answer would be, people have really enjoyed the experiences they have had playing single player games, and they believe they would enjoy that experience even more, if the single player games were set in shared worlds, where they could interact with other people.

     

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik
    That's the one message I wish I could beat into the heads of some of the regular posters around here. MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk. So coming on here and being a lazy, whiney jerk isn't exactly helping the cause.

    Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?
    Hey, thanks for proving my point and being a good example.

     

    I didn't say the newer generation doesn't want to interact with other players. I said the newer generation doesn't want to interact with players who bring up stall 10+ year old arguments that were stupid when they were first created.

    Why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME if you don't want to interact with whiney jerks?

    HAHAHAHA! As if that question deserves anything other than a troll response.


    wow. just... wow. Your logic beats me. I have no possible response since you believe I proved your point. You win :)
    I think he was trying to refer to you as a whiney complainer within the context of your post. But I thought it was a legitimate question.
    It must be just me, then. I still do not get the logic (or point) :)

     

    I meant, the question, you asked was legit. Why play an MMO for a single player experience?

     

    It's not really that simple.  There are elements of single player games that people just like to experience.  They want to experience those things, but with a bunch of other people around, in the same game, in the same world at the same time.  Talking to people, trading with people, and just seeing other real people are all part of it.  That is what makes the experience a "Massively Multiplayer" experience.  All the other stuff is just details.  You could have an MMORPG without Raids, Heroic Dungeons, Open World Bosses, etc.  In fact, they already exist.

     

    So the answer would be, people have really enjoyed the experiences they have had playing single player games, and they believe they would enjoy that experience even more, if the single player games were set in shared worlds, where they could interact with other people.

     

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    because it has more content and larger worlds...usually.

    That is the ONLY reason I play an MMO

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    I, for one, have wondered for years why someone would play an Mmo as a single player yet insisting that mmo's be soloable.

    Seems that's the direction it took so now we have SRPG's and SMmo's (just made up for the purpose of my post) and some of us are left scratching our heads as to the logic of this direction.

     

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    I, for one, have wondered for years why someone would play an Mmo as a single player yet insisting that mmo's be soloable.

    Seems that's the direction it took so now we have SRPG's and SMmo's (just made up for the purpose of my post) and some of us are left scratching our heads as to the logic of this direction.

     

    the reason is the massive amounts of content compared to single player games.

    I like the continuity that what I did last year has an affect on what I am doing today and I still have content to absorb even after a year. I cant get that experience in a single player game. If games like Eve and Wurm where single player games I would likely play them as such

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    I think growing up is the right phrase in this instance. The industry and the medium are moving forward, but for a lot of people games have served as a refuge from everything they don't like about the world and their life. Now the medium's expanding and they feel threatened. It's like a good friend who starts expanding their circles. No, they aren't actually abandoning you, but it can feel like that, and it hurts and it's scary. Mix in with that some general xenophobia and immaturity and you have this vocal segment of gamers who act like complete asshats.

    I thought the movie analogy was well done though, and accurate. And to extend it for anyone freaking out about this expansion, just because, say, Ingmar Bergman or Jim Jarmusch makes movie, doesn't mean that Michael Bay is out of work. There's plenty of room for everyone in modern gaming.

    EDIT: Just going to leave this here since it's funny and (vaguely) relevant. YouTube

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    I, for one, have wondered for years why someone would play an Mmo as a single player yet insisting that mmo's be soloable.

    Seems that's the direction it took so now we have SRPG's and SMmo's (just made up for the purpose of my post) and some of us are left scratching our heads as to the logic of this direction.

     

    the reason is the massive amounts of content compared to single player games.

    I like the continuity that what I did last year has an affect on what I am doing today and I still have content to absorb even after a year. I cant get that experience in a single player game. If games like Eve and Wurm where single player games I would likely play them as such

     It's not that I can't understand your point of view, I just question the direction they took. I, myself, would rather play SRPG's when I want to play solo. I play mmo's for the interaction aspects.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    I, for one, have wondered for years why someone would play an Mmo as a single player yet insisting that mmo's be soloable.

    Seems that's the direction it took so now we have SRPG's and SMmo's (just made up for the purpose of my post) and some of us are left scratching our heads as to the logic of this direction.

     

    the reason is the massive amounts of content compared to single player games.

    I like the continuity that what I did last year has an affect on what I am doing today and I still have content to absorb even after a year. I cant get that experience in a single player game. If games like Eve and Wurm where single player games I would likely play them as such

     It's not that I can't understand your point of view, I just question the direction they took. I, myself, would rather play SRPG's when I want to play solo. I play mmo's for the interaction aspects.

    i play video games for depth and longevity whichever has more that is what I play.

    With that said, there are a lot of players (and to some degree myself) who enjoy being part of a larger social world without actually interacting with people. That is fairly common in real life too. Usually in the areas of science but take as a simple example, a zoo keeper might not like interacting with people directly but does like to offer people the enjoyment of a zoo.

     

    MMO...same thing

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    i play video games for depth and longevity whichever has more that is what I play.

    With that said, there are a lot of players (and to some degree myself) who enjoy being part of a larger social world without actually interacting with people. That is fairly common in real life too. Usually in the areas of science but take as a simple example, a zoo keeper might not like interacting with people directly but does like to offer people the enjoyment of a zoo.

     

    MMO...same thing

      I come from a time when an mmo was the melding of a videogame and a table top RPG (two hobbies I loved) welded into one.

    I can accept the change and have adapted to it. Doesn't mean I don't question it.

    Thanks for trying to express your view with analogies. Totally unnecessary but enjoyable to read. image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,826
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

    I, for one, have wondered for years why someone would play an Mmo as a single player yet insisting that mmo's be soloable.

    Seems that's the direction it took so now we have SRPG's and SMmo's (just made up for the purpose of my post) and some of us are left scratching our heads as to the logic of this direction.

     

    the reason is the massive amounts of content compared to single player games.

    I like the continuity that what I did last year has an affect on what I am doing today and I still have content to absorb even after a year. I cant get that experience in a single player game. If games like Eve and Wurm where single player games I would likely play them as such

     It's not that I can't understand your point of view, I just question the direction they took. I, myself, would rather play SRPG's when I want to play solo. I play mmo's for the interaction aspects.

    i play video games for depth and longevity whichever has more that is what I play.

    With that said, there are a lot of players (and to some degree myself) who enjoy being part of a larger social world without actually interacting with people. That is fairly common in real life too. Usually in the areas of science but take as a simple example, a zoo keeper might not like interacting with people directly but does like to offer people the enjoyment of a zoo.

     

    MMO...same thing

    If that's so, then you are an exception. The rule is not the case for most. Looking at the trend. MMO pre launch hype and sells millions of boxes or opens with millions of players. 60 days later we see threads.......

     I was thinking of re rolling to get off my dead server but then i saw this...

  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321
    I'd highly recommend looking a bit deeper than this one article. Read up on the cross forum and web site censorship, the slandering of the word gamer, as well as corruption among the web based gaming rags that's come to light over the last couple weeks. Entertaining at times, rage inducing at others.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Ludwik
    That's the one message I wish I could beat into the heads of some of the regular posters around here. MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk. So coming on here and being a lazy, whiney jerk isn't exactly helping the cause.

    Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?
    Hey, thanks for proving my point and being a good example.

     

    I didn't say the newer generation doesn't want to interact with other players. I said the newer generation doesn't want to interact with players who bring up stall 10+ year old arguments that were stupid when they were first created.

    Why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME if you don't want to interact with whiney jerks?

    HAHAHAHA! As if that question deserves anything other than a troll response.


    wow. just... wow. Your logic beats me. I have no possible response since you believe I proved your point. You win :)
    I think he was trying to refer to you as a whiney complainer within the context of your post. But I thought it was a legitimate question.
    It must be just me, then. I still do not get the logic (or point) :)

     

    I meant, the question, you asked was legit. Why play an MMO for a single player experience?

     

    It's not really that simple.  There are elements of single player games that people just like to experience.  They want to experience those things, but with a bunch of other people around, in the same game, in the same world at the same time.  Talking to people, trading with people, and just seeing other real people are all part of it.  That is what makes the experience a "Massively Multiplayer" experience.  All the other stuff is just details.  You could have an MMORPG without Raids, Heroic Dungeons, Open World Bosses, etc.  In fact, they already exist.

     

    So the answer would be, people have really enjoyed the experiences they have had playing single player games, and they believe they would enjoy that experience even more, if the single player games were set in shared worlds, where they could interact with other people.

     

    You aren't taking the context of the question into consideration. Look at the question under the light of the earlier poster.

    "MMOs are becoming more solo oriented because no one wants to play with a lazy, whiney jerk"

    The point ALB made is that, if that's how you really feel......................

    "Then why are you logging into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME?"

     

    Of course not.  If MMORPGs were filled with whiners, then there would be no reason to play them.  It would ruin the experience.  On the other hand, if the reality is that the people who detract from the experience are a minority, then there is a legitimate question here.  Why would people play an MMORPG to achieve a single player experience?

     

    I don't think people are going after a single player experience in MMORPGs.  They are going after the massively multiplayer experience, they just happen to enjoy single player game mechanics in MMORPGs.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
     

    If that's so, then you are an exception. The rule is not the case for most. Looking at the trend. MMO pre launch hype and sells millions of boxes or opens with millions of players. 60 days later we see threads.......

     I was thinking of re rolling to get off my dead server but then i saw this...

    that is because I play games that dont suck :)

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • LeGrosGamerV2LeGrosGamerV2 Member Posts: 90

    How is hand holding "Growing up" the genre?     How is dumbing down every aspect of a MMO "Growing up"?     From where I stand, it's more like Gamers leaving MMO's behind.   If Gaming was leaving gamers behind you wouldn't have more players playing WoW then the last 20 MMO's released combined.  

     

       To the part about people refusing to move ahead, this can go on a few directions.   We are being bombarded year after year with new releases that all look the same, so why would people playing MMO X leave their achievements to play newly released MMO Y that is basically the same as MMO X but with different map layouts?   

     

      Back in the day, 15-20 years ago, you had a handful of MMO's to pick from in which each of them had a unique play style to suit any individual. Today all these releases try so hard at being hybrid by incorporating a little of everything that in the end the game fails miserably.  So we end up with 2 things : 1- We get a half finished MMO such as TESO that was meant for console and is no where close to finish and has no idea which route to take.  2- We got games announced 6-7 years in advance, and by the time they do release most of the hype would have gone elsewhere ( Star Citizen, ArchAge).   

     

     So basically what I'm typing here, is that I'm fed up at keeping up with upcoming releases with no exact release date, that's been announced 5+ years.  I look at games from a day to day basis.  I'll pay attention to a game once released, not before. 

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,261


    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2
    How is hand holding "Growing up" the genre?     How is dumbing down every aspect of a MMO "Growing up"?     From where I stand, it's more like Gamers leaving MMO's behind.   If Gaming was leaving gamers behind you wouldn't have more players playing WoW then the last 20 MMO's released combined.     To the part about people refusing to move ahead, this can go on a few directions.   We are being bombarded year after year with new releases that all look the same, so why would people playing MMO X leave their achievements to play newly released MMO Y that is basically the same as MMO X but with different map layouts?     Back in the day, 15-20 years ago, you had a handful of MMO's to pick from in which each of them had a unique play style to suit any individual. Today all these releases try so hard at being hybrid by incorporating a little of everything that in the end the game fails miserably.  So we end up with 2 things : 1- We get a half finished MMO such as TESO that was meant for console and is no where close to finish and has no idea which route to take.  2- We got games announced 6-7 years in advance, and by the time they do release most of the hype would have gone elsewhere ( Star Citizen, ArchAge).    So basically what I'm typing here, is that I'm fed up at keeping up with upcoming releases with no exact release date, that's been announced 5+ years.  I look at games from a day to day basis.  I'll pay attention to a game once released, not before. 
    I was going to address atticusbc's post, but you did a fine job. The "Hand Holding" line was spot on!

    I would add that judging a player's "maturity" on their choice of video game is kind of ignorant. If one feels the need to do so, they condemn their own "maturity." Kids want to be "grown up" before their time. Immature people want to be considered mature and try to convince others of their maturity, which usually goes to prove their immaturity. Mature people really could not care any less what others think.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2
    How is hand holding "Growing up" the genre?     How is dumbing down every aspect of a MMO "Growing up"?     From where I stand, it's more like Gamers leaving MMO's behind.   If Gaming was leaving gamers behind you wouldn't have more players playing WoW then the last 20 MMO's released combined.  

       To the part about people refusing to move ahead, this can go on a few directions.   We are being bombarded year after year with new releases that all look the same, so why would people playing MMO X leave their achievements to play newly released MMO Y that is basically the same as MMO X but with different map layouts?   

      Back in the day, 15-20 years ago, you had a handful of MMO's to pick from in which each of them had a unique play style to suit any individual. Today all these releases try so hard at being hybrid by incorporating a little of everything that in the end the game fails miserably.  So we end up with 2 things : 1- We get a half finished MMO such as TESO that was meant for console and is no where close to finish and has no idea which route to take.  2- We got games announced 6-7 years in advance, and by the time they do release most of the hype would have gone elsewhere ( Star Citizen, ArchAge).   

     So basically what I'm typing here, is that I'm fed up at keeping up with upcoming releases with no exact release date, that's been announced 5+ years.  I look at games from a day to day basis.  I'll pay attention to a game once released, not before. 


    I was going to address atticusbc's post, but you did a fine job. The "Hand Holding" line was spot on!

    I would add that judging a player's "maturity" on their choice of video game is kind of ignorant. If one feels the need to do so, they condemn their own "maturity." Kids want to be "grown up" before their time. Immature people want to be considered mature and try to convince others of their maturity, which usually goes to prove their immaturity. Mature people really could not care any less what others think.

    First off, I wasn't judging anyone's choice of video game, unlike a number of people in this thread.* I don't give a shit what games people play. One of the big issues with the folks who need to grow up is that they need to gain the same mindset. Who cares if some people don't play "real" games? Who gives a flying frak if the industry is expanding into areas "gamers" don't personally enjoy? The industry can cater to everyone. Who gave anyone the right to qualify or judge someone else's happiness? THAT is immature.

    Also, it was perhaps a mistake to bring in genres at all in my post. I'm not talking about games themselves. What I was really pointing to was the people behind them and the culture of games in general. That's what's really changing in the industry. A lot more people from a lot of different backgrounds are making and playing and generally getting involved. That's the real issue here. And yeah, the AAA sector is stagnant and bloated, but the indie scene is really becoming interesting. There are plenty of interesting, challenging games out there if you look. Just because they don't have a $60 price-tag and a multi-million dollar advertizing campaign doesn't mean they are any less extant or worthy of your time.

    The old guard of gaming is walking hand in hand with the AAA industry into the night: they are both stuck in the same ruts they carved for themselves over a decade ago. The rest of the community is growing and moving on with out them, and they're just flailing. The only difference is that AAA games have PR reps to stop them from spouting the bile and nonsense that many old gamers do.

    *It bears pointing out that your statement was grossly hypocritical. Claiming that I'm immature for judging someone's game choice while simultaneously agreeing with an opinion which does exactly that is pretty low. I don't judge people for what games they play, I judge them by how they behave as individuals. It's time "gamers" did the same.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,997

    I'm not an mmo gamer. I'm a gamer. I was a gamer before PCs and computer games were mainstream. Gaming hasn't left gamers behind. Gaming has left behind the same demographics it always has, those that are stuck in a pocket refusing to progress. Gaming has never been static or stagnant. Those who refuse to accept that reality are marginalized and left behind.

    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not an mmo gamer. I'm a gamer. I was a gamer before PCs and computer games were mainstream. Gaming hasn't left gamers behind. Gaming has left behind the same demographics it always has, those that are stuck in a pocket refusing to progress. Gaming has never been static or stagnant. Those who refuse to accept that reality are marginalized and left behind.

    QFT

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,261


    Originally posted by atticusbc

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2
    How is hand holding "Growing up" the genre?
    How is dumbing down every aspect of a MMO "Growing up"?From where I stand, it's more like Gamers leaving MMO's behind.   If Gaming was leaving gamers behind you wouldn't have more players playing WoW then the last 20 MMO's released combined.To the part about people refusing to move ahead, this can go on a few directions.   We are being bombarded year after year with new releases that all look the same, so why would people playing MMO X leave their achievements to play newly released MMO Y that is basically the same as MMO X but with different map layouts?Back in the day, 15-20 years ago, you had a handful of MMO's to pick from in which each of them had a unique play style to suit any individual. Today all these releases try so hard at being hybrid by incorporating a little of everything that in the end the game fails miserably.  So we end up with 2 things : 1- We get a half finished MMO such as TESO that was meant for console and is no where close to finish and has no idea which route to take.  2- We got games announced 6-7 years in advance, and by the time they do release most of the hype would have gone elsewhere ( Star Citizen, ArchAge).So basically what I'm typing here, is that I'm fed up at keeping up with upcoming releases with no exact release date, that's been announced 5+ years.  I look at games from a day to day basis.  I'll pay attention to a game once released, not before.

    I was going to address atticusbc's post, but you did a fine job. The "Hand Holding" line was spot on!I would add that judging a player's "maturity" on their choice of video game is kind of ignorant. If one feels the need to do so, they condemn their own "maturity." Kids want to be "grown up" before their time. Immature people want to be considered mature and try to convince others of their maturity, which usually goes to prove their immaturity. Mature people really could not care any less what others think.
    First off, I wasn't judging anyone's choice of video game, unlike a number of people in this thread.
    Really? Let me refresh your memory.

    Originally posted by atticusbc
    I think growing up is the right phrase in this instance. The industry and the medium are moving forward, but for a lot of people games have served as a refuge from everything they don't like about the world and their life. Now the medium's expanding and they feel threatened. It's like a good friend who starts expanding their circles. No, they aren't actually abandoning you, but it can feel like that, and it hurts and it's scary. Mix in with that some general xenophobia and immaturity and you have this vocal segment of gamers who act like complete asshats.
    Ring a bell? Let's see how you try to spin this one...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,261


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    I'm not an mmo gamer. I'm a gamer. I was a gamer before PCs and computer games were mainstream. Gaming hasn't left gamers behind. Gaming has left behind the same demographics it always has, those that are stuck in a pocket refusing to progress. Gaming has never been static or stagnant. Those who refuse to accept that reality are marginalized and left behind.
    That is an interesting point. For me, I do not play video games "just to play video games." I play them if they are fun and enjoyable. If not, I find other forms of entertainment. Maybe that is the difference?

    I used to enjoy watching the TV show Chuck. Then Chuck became a spy (with the skills) and married Sarah. It was no longer the same show I used to enjoy about a bumbling computer geek that had to be helped out of trouble by his FBI handlers, one of them he a had a huge crush on. I stopped watching.

    I really enjoyed a book series about a waif teenager raised by wolves. The first three were great. The last 2, not so much. I'll re-read the first 3. I have yet to re-read the last 2.

    Why do I complain? I don't know.
    - Maybe I have some slim hope that someone who can do something about it will know that NOT everyone and their dog is happy with the state of gaming? After all, the alternative is to just shut up and go away and let the industry go it's merry way, which accomplishes absolutely nothing for me.
    - Maybe I am testing the "Squeaky Wheel" theory? So far, no oil is on the horizon.

    When something that I once found enjoyable stops being so, I wonder and question why. I examine. If it is something I feel comfortable adjusting to, I will. If it is not, I may complain (like video games and MMOs) or may not (like the TV series and the book series). Maybe my passion for the medium is what dictates my response. There certainly are many, many TV shows and books series that I enjoy. Not so with video games. For some reason, almost that whole medium is lost to me.

    When all is said and done, if someone wants change, they do so by voicing their displeasure, and offering helpful suggestions, not accepting every new thing handed to them lock, stock, and barrel.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • Pig-EyePig-Eye Member Posts: 115

    Back in the day, computer were rather expensive. The cost alone made them prohibitive to the average person. I'm not going to use the word Novelty, but their usage was geared more towards hobbyist's. This, in and of it's self, made the users more of a collective, like minded group.

     

    With the lowering of the costs of owning a pc, opened the gates to the unwashed masses (hehe, I've always wanted to use that phrase!). Mannerisms, behavior trended towards the bottom because of the influx of new "Unknown" players hiding behind their keyboards.

     

    Etc, etc... fast forward and welcome to the barrens!

     

    Well, there it is!

     

    Happy Labor Day!!!

     

    p.s. If this doesn't make sense, I need coffee :)

    I got your Deliverance!

    Where's my banjo?!!

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,825
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not an mmo gamer. I'm a gamer. I was a gamer before PCs and computer games were mainstream. Gaming hasn't left gamers behind. Gaming has left behind the same demographics it always has, those that are stuck in a pocket refusing to progress. Gaming has never been static or stagnant. Those who refuse to accept that reality are marginalized and left behind.

    I have to agree with you.

    A lot of the "MMO's are on decline/stagnant/etc..." comments come from people who disregard any new features they don't like.

    More MMO's coming out with systems they don't like? "MMO's are dying, it's clear! Everyone can see it!" image

    I've enjoyed the old games, and I'm enjoying the new ones now.

     

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by atticusbc

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2

     


    I was going to address atticusbc's post, but you did a fine job. The "Hand Holding" line was spot on!

     

    I would add that judging a player's "maturity" on their choice of video game is kind of ignorant. If one feels the need to do so, they condemn their own "maturity." Kids want to be "grown up" before their time. Immature people want to be considered mature and try to convince others of their maturity, which usually goes to prove their immaturity. Mature people really could not care any less what others think.


    First off, I wasn't judging anyone's choice of video game, unlike a number of people in this thread.
    Really? Let me refresh your memory.

    Originally posted by atticusbc
    I think growing up is the right phrase in this instance. The industry and the medium are moving forward, but for a lot of people games have served as a refuge from everything they don't like about the world and their life. Now the medium's expanding and they feel threatened. It's like a good friend who starts expanding their circles. No, they aren't actually abandoning you, but it can feel like that, and it hurts and it's scary. Mix in with that some general xenophobia and immaturity and you have this vocal segment of gamers who act like complete asshats.

    Ring a bell? Let's see how you try to spin this one...

     

    Uhh..... What? Rereading it and there's nothing in there about judging people for their choice of game. I'm judging people based on their behaviours, yes, absolutely. So hand hold me. What exactly in my post judges people for their game choice. You and LeGros are the only ones talking about genres and specific games, not me. ( A friend just read my post and yours. He doesn't know where you're getting this game judging thing from either). 

    So explain where and how I am judging people for what games they play, and then get on to the rest of my post. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the state of the culture and community. 

    EDIT: You seem a little defensive, so to clarify I am not being sarcastic. I really want to know what parts of my first post appear to judge people for the types of games they play. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by atticusbc
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by atticusbc

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2

     


    I was going to address atticusbc's post, but you did a fine job. The "Hand Holding" line was spot on!

     

    I would add that judging a player's "maturity" on their choice of video game is kind of ignorant. If one feels the need to do so, they condemn their own "maturity." Kids want to be "grown up" before their time. Immature people want to be considered mature and try to convince others of their maturity, which usually goes to prove their immaturity. Mature people really could not care any less what others think.


    First off, I wasn't judging anyone's choice of video game, unlike a number of people in this thread.
    Really? Let me refresh your memory.

    Originally posted by atticusbc
    I think growing up is the right phrase in this instance. The industry and the medium are moving forward, but for a lot of people games have served as a refuge from everything they don't like about the world and their life. Now the medium's expanding and they feel threatened. It's like a good friend who starts expanding their circles. No, they aren't actually abandoning you, but it can feel like that, and it hurts and it's scary. Mix in with that some general xenophobia and immaturity and you have this vocal segment of gamers who act like complete asshats.

    Ring a bell? Let's see how you try to spin this one...

     

    Uhh..... What? Rereading it and there's nothing in there about judging people for their choice of game. I'm judging people based on their behaviours, yes, absolutely. So hand hold me. What exactly in my post judges people for their game choice. You and LeGros are the only ones talking about genres and specific games, not me. ( A friend just read my post and yours. He doesn't know where you're getting this game judging thing from either). 

    So explain where and how I am judging people for what games they play, and then get on to the rest of my post. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the state of the culture and community. 

    EDIT: You seem a little defensive, so to clarify I am not being sarcastic. I really want to know what parts of my first post appear to judge people for the types of games they play. 

     

    I'm going to say atticusbc is judging based on perceived behaviors and character traits, not a particular game or style of game chosen.  It could be assumed that they mean "old school MMORPGs", but it's not really explicitly stated.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

This discussion has been closed.