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Amazing article detailing the innovation of EQN and Storybricks

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  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

    I think you're giving a simple kid's puzzle too much credit. When the world's fastest solve is 5.5 second by a human it's extremely simple. It requires more time to solve a Sudoku puzzle then to solve a rubick's cube.

    Read up . .I edited my post. Obviously speed has nothing to do with ease. Please keep making yourself look smart.

     

    AKA ... Knowing the answer isn't solving the puzzle.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,161
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    I am probably going to get banned for this .. but your an idiot.

     

    Why don't you go read a book  -.-

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,161
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

    I think you're giving a simple kid's puzzle too much credit. When the world's fastest solve is 5.5 second by a human it's extremely simple. It requires more time to solve a Sudoku puzzle then to solve a rubick's cube.

    Read up . .I edited my post. Obviously speed has nothing to do with ease. Please keep making yourself look smart.

     

    AKA ... Knowing the answer isn't solving the puzzle.

    Right, speed has nothing to do with ease~ okay. Stop acting as if this is the world's hardest puzzle. Heck why not try solving real cryptic puzzle and attempt an Isis ball or Ramisis Pyramid.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,161
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    I am probably going to get banned for this .. but your an idiot.

     

    Why don't you go read a book  -.-

    Your ignorance knows no bounds seeing as you think the rubick's cube is even remotely hard to solve. You even said it yourself genius; it takes an average Joe such as yourself to solve the puzzle in 1-2 minutes. *slow clap*

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    I am probably going to get banned for this .. but your an idiot.

     

    Why don't you go read a book  -.-

    Your ignorance knows no bounds seeing as you think the rubick's cube is even remotely hard to solve. You even said it yourself genius; it takes an average Joe such as yourself to solve the puzzle in 1-2 minutes. *slow clap*

    Yes it takes a moron to solve it because the answer is given to them.

     

    Can you personally come up with the algorithms yourself? Please enlighten me. Prove it to me that is is simple.

     

    In plus I have an IQ of 130 .. probably a hell of a lot higher than yours. I can imagine ar ock is more intelligent. 

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,161
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    I am probably going to get banned for this .. but your an idiot.

     

    Why don't you go read a book  -.-

    Your ignorance knows no bounds seeing as you think the rubick's cube is even remotely hard to solve. You even said it yourself genius; it takes an average Joe such as yourself to solve the puzzle in 1-2 minutes. *slow clap*

    Yes it takes a moron to solve it because the answer is given to them.

     

    Can you personally come up with the algorithms yourself? Please enlighten me. Prove it to me that is is simple.

     

    In plus I have an IQ of 130 .. probably a hell of a lot higher than yours. I can imagine ar ock is more intelligent. 

    Right, keep telling that to yourself and continue solving kids puzzles, ;). Here's a really challenging puzzle for you and would you look at that?! it's printable! Just make sure to watch out while using scissors while cutting the shapes out. Wouldn't want our little genius to get cut~

    image

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Azoth

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    How many combinations are there to a rubiks cube and are you capable of listing every combination and pattern possible? The creator of the rubiks cube didn't have such an easy time solving his own puzzle.

    The point I am making is that the Storybricks engine is sort of like a puzzle. A combination of possibilities. Yes the programmer has to program it to do these things. But it doesn't mean they thought of every single thing. They could add in code, and end up with some pretty unexpected results depending on the way the storybricks engine handles it and puts it all together.

    Think of a normal puzzle. Sometimes you find the unexpected piece that fits in a spot, but is wrong.

     

    With that said, it only remains unexpected till they witness it. Obviously at that point they will bonk themselves in the head and know exactly what is going on. Sometimes these unexpected situations could end up being pretty interesting things. It might end up being something they want to keep rather than calling it a bug. Truthfully even normal programming has these sort of things happen, but with Storybricks I would imagine it would happen more frequently.

    Write a story on a piece of paper. Than cut out all the sentences and throw them in the air. Now imagine a system that put all the pieces together to form another story. It would have so many combinations, that there has got to be a story in there that you wouldn't expect it to form right?

     

    43,252,003,274,489,856,000 combinations. Rubick's Cubes are also extremely simple to solve, World Record belongs to a robot at 3.25 seconds, current world record for a human is 5.55 seconds.

    It took the original creator about a month to solve it. A rubiks cube isn't easy to solve. We just now know algorithms in order to solve it. Give someone a Rubiks cube who knows nothing about the algorithms and I bet you they wouldn't be able to solve it. So please .. tell me again how easy it is. You obviously have no freaking clue.

     

    Stop deluding yourself.

     

    Edit: Just as an example i am capble of solving a rubiks cube in about 1 - 2 minutes. I don't really do speed solving. I only learned how to solve a rubiks cube AFTER I learned the various algorithms to do so. That means with out the hard work of mathematicians who figured out all these algorithms, I and pretty much everyone who isn't a mathematician wouldn't be able to solve it at all. I don't see how you can claim that is a simple puzzle.

    Not a mathematician and want to solve it fast? Here: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Solve-The-Rubiks-Cube-Faster-Part-1-2/?ALLSTEPS go practice and stop acting like it's hard.

    I am probably going to get banned for this .. but your an idiot.

     

    Why don't you go read a book  -.-

    Your ignorance knows no bounds seeing as you think the rubick's cube is even remotely hard to solve. You even said it yourself genius; it takes an average Joe such as yourself to solve the puzzle in 1-2 minutes. *slow clap*

    Yes it takes a moron to solve it because the answer is given to them.

     

    Can you personally come up with the algorithms yourself? Please enlighten me. Prove it to me that is is simple.

     

    In plus I have an IQ of 130 .. probably a hell of a lot higher than yours. I can imagine ar ock is more intelligent. 

    Right, keep telling that to yourself and continue solving kids puzzles, ;). Here's a really challenging puzzle for you and would you look at that?! it's printable! Just make sure to watch out while using scissors while cutting the shapes out. Wouldn't want our little genius to get cut~

    image

    Still waiting for you to explain how to create those algorithms.

     

    Edit: Actually here you go .. it's so easy a caveman can do it. http://web.mit.edu/sp.268/www/rubik.pdf

  • amx23amx23 Member Posts: 102
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Azoth
    Originally posted by Markusrind
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    BFD ! It's a faction system. So your actions, choices have affects on the various races and factions in the game thereby alter your access and choice in quests and quest locations. It's similar to what Vanguard had. Possibly better instituted. So they saw the potential of what was in Vanguard and instituted it in this game. Not really ground breaking or earth shattering. In Vanguard you could change bad faction with various races either through grinding quests or diplomacy. Surprisingly Sony is borrowing from a game they've just shut down and adding it to a new game. Meh , let me know when it's something truly new and impressive. As I recall they had something less refined in SWG also.

    It is nothing like a faction system, at least not in the way you have compared other systems with. The approach as explain in presentations and via the Storybricks detailing is a little more complex then kills x to make y happy.

    But killing X will still make Y happy. You will just have to also collect flowers and build a temple to make Y totally love you. Except that you will have no idea what the result of your action will be, so you will just randomly have some npc love while some other will want to kill you.

     

    If anyone has ever played Vanguard they know that there are 4 ways to affect faction. Killing mobs, questing ( run and fetch missions ). crafting certain items in particular areas or the diplomacy card game. None of what has/is being proposed is anything new or ground breaking. The fact that people are actually excited about this shows the lack of experience and naivety of the general community. There were a lot of faction in Vanguard so it could become a very complicated job maintaining those factions. Coincidently Vanguard was owned by Sony and what they are implementing is from a game they owned ? If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

    You dont think permanent change is anything ground-breaking? If you played mmos, and if you like the quest-line that was given, wouldnt it be nice for it to go on? Like after you've have completed your objectives, given an item(s) a playable class or whatever, The AI selects a new foe for your faction to tumble with based on wants needs or if the ogres in Southern Ro are militaristic and like to conquer. Goblins gain too much wealth and are now a faction by itself. The Roh-Song would be like that book in the movie "The Never-Ending Story". None of what i predicted was scripted other than programming the basic "wants, needs". Factions are one thing, but making you care about the world is another. They mention this isnt "good vs evil" that the "good side" might do things that are questionable and it all depends on what you care about. NPC groups are spread all over the world and have Everquest lore tied into them. Conquest in one little area could take weeks or months going back and forth with player intervention like a tug of war. 

    This AI system would ulltimately be awesome for RP guilds or those who generally care about the lore. Factions are a part of it. Im a paladin i want to help the church, i gain abilities that make me stronger because the more i do for an npc group the more they seek me out, the more the church gets attacked roh-song will tell me where the conflict areas are.  the more "fame" i get the more i access more content by other groups or get hunted.

    If permanant change was never implemented. This still wouldnt be a step back. I mean, the fact of no quest hubs or the fact npcs seek you out for quests based on criteria is still a step up. I think people are just bitter about SOE or Everquest for whatever reason they have.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Azoth
    Originally posted by Markusrind
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    BFD ! It's a faction system. So your actions, choices have affects on the various races and factions in the game thereby alter your access and choice in quests and quest locations. It's similar to what Vanguard had. Possibly better instituted. So they saw the potential of what was in Vanguard and instituted it in this game. Not really ground breaking or earth shattering. In Vanguard you could change bad faction with various races either through grinding quests or diplomacy. Surprisingly Sony is borrowing from a game they've just shut down and adding it to a new game. Meh , let me know when it's something truly new and impressive. As I recall they had something less refined in SWG also.

    It is nothing like a faction system, at least not in the way you have compared other systems with. The approach as explain in presentations and via the Storybricks detailing is a little more complex then kills x to make y happy.

    But killing X will still make Y happy. You will just have to also collect flowers and build a temple to make Y totally love you. Except that you will have no idea what the result of your action will be, so you will just randomly have some npc love while some other will want to kill you.

     

    If anyone has ever played Vanguard they know that there are 4 ways to affect faction. Killing mobs, questing ( run and fetch missions ). crafting certain items in particular areas or the diplomacy card game. None of what has/is being proposed is anything new or ground breaking. The fact that people are actually excited about this shows the lack of experience and naivety of the general community. There were a lot of faction in Vanguard so it could become a very complicated job maintaining those factions. Coincidently Vanguard was owned by Sony and what they are implementing is from a game they owned ? If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

     

    Did you watch the video? You call those excited about this names but at the same time make supposedly concrete assertions on the topic of the thread.  In order to do this you would have needed to watch the video which if you had you would know comparisons to Vanguard aren't the same.  Yes, this is hypothetical due to SB not being an entirely working system (that we've seen) in EQN.

  • HedeonHedeon Member UncommonPosts: 997

    one more thread filled with people claiming GW2 promised too much - me god never I had seen a game tell in more detail what it were all about - anyone claim otherwise simply refused to listen to what were said, and made up what they wanted them to say.

    anyway will make my own little "prediction" on the EQN matter.... in the future people will claim EQN =/= GW2, since they played through an area once, and then quitted.

    some will claim SOE lied cause they cant really change the world (even if they have said you can go back in a pattern, and by that repeat/undo "events" )

    no reason to think they somehow gave their software real emotions, real purpose and so on.... in the end it is all about creating the illusion in a hopeful intresting way, work on ruin the illusion, and well you get what you want, just like any other "GW2 hater"

    as for mr. rubiks cube is a childs puzzle....and at the same time say you needed the interwebs to tell you how to do it....really? weak troll baiting *roll eyes*  bet you d be the one to tell people to go watch how smart people solved group/raid encounters before playing a game too ;P

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    Originally posted by Hedeon

    one more thread filled with people claiming GW2 promised too much - me god never I had seen a game tell in more detail what it were all about - anyone claim otherwise simply refused to listen to what were said, and made up what they wanted them to say.

    anyway will make my own little "prediction" on the EQN matter.... in the future people will claim EQN =/= GW2, since they played through an area once, and then quitted.

    some will claim SOE lied cause they cant really change the world (even if they have said you can go back in a pattern, and by that repeat/undo "events" )

    no reason to think they somehow gave their software real emotions, real purpose and so on.... in the end it is all about creating the illusion in a hopeful intresting way, work on ruin the illusion, and well you get what you want, just like any other "GW2 hater"

    as for mr. rubiks cube is a childs puzzle....and at the same time say you needed the interwebs to tell you how to do it....really? weak troll baiting *roll eyes*  bet you d be the one to tell people to go watch how smart people solved group/raid encounters before playing a game too ;P

    This but way worse lol

  • evilizedevilized Member UncommonPosts: 576
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Muntz
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Muntz
    Originally posted by Azoth
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Azoth
     

    I don't think everyone in here sees it that way. Some people think that NPC will do stuff that is totally unexpected even by the people designing the AI.

    I suppose that means by what one "means" by unexpected.

    For instance, I don't think the AI is going to become sentient and start wondering about it's existence.

    However, in (I think it was) Oblvion, one of the npc's needed a weapon and ran "next door" to get one which surprised the developers.

    Now, I believe this was earlier in their development where their "radiant AI" actually did more than what it did during release.

    So "sure" the npc's might do some surprising things that the developers didn't foresee.

    But aren't looking at an AI that will truly "learn" from it's experiences like a human would.

    I doubt it was a surprise to the person that did the coding. There might be nice outcomes, but it is all in the boundries of what is in the code.

    Orc have in his likes ''wealth''

    ways to acquire wealth might be stuff like : mine gold, kill and rob merchants, ask toll to cross a bridge, sell crafted items and on and on. But all the outcome have to be coded somewhere, if it's not coded, and orc won't go grab an NPC and ask a ransom to the king.

    Every possible paths must be written somewhere, sure you might not tell the orc exactly where to put down his settlement, but there are still parameters that make him choose a spot.

    In a coded program, there is nothing random.

    Come now, unexpected happens in programming all the time typically we call them bugs. The more complext the program the greater number of bugs exist. It is far from a new concept for a programmer to pass a bug (unexpected behavior) off as a feature. If indeed they were suprised by the out come it is more then likely no one person was responsible for the code that made it happen. 

    Even bugs aren't random, you can easily reproduce bugs as long as you know how to reproduce them. Programming truly isn't random. If said orc goes to create a village there will be limited locations as to where that said village will be placed. otherwise you'll end up with some very... interesting issues.

    How do you read unexpected as random? The "as long as you know how to reproduce them" can be a large issue. 

    Agreed the space is bounded but It doesn't have to be as simple as "if-then." The code could be made adaptive allowing the orcs to migrate to some where dare I say unexpected but not outside the bounds of the game. That would move it from a "feature" to a bug. 

    I merely thought you meant random with the usage of unexpected. 

    That's purely how it works though, 'If, then, else'. if 'else' happens then it simply goes down a finite list of 'if, then, else' until it eventually finds it's final solution. If there's a bug in the code it could definitely create something unexpected.

    I'm curious as to how this system is going to be innovative as it merely does what others have already done before. Renaming dynamic events, or public questing, etc to story bricks does not give them the ability to say innovative. It's merely delving deeper into a tree of events using 'if, then, else'.

    I just wonder if they're going to make this a massively phased game or one time occurrences. Does that mean that story blocks will last long enough for thousands or even millions to participate? How will players go about experiencing the game if most of the content has already been progressed?

    This makes me think that when you go down this tree for example, as you progress further into the tree different quests and monsters unlock as you go. which could possibly mean that if this game has different servers. Each server could contain extremely different outcomes.

    The idea behind having storybricks is that the content is self-creating so you never run out. Have you ever played an MMORPG that didn't involve an endless gear grind at "endgame"? The amount of ignorance in this thread is really fairly staggering. It's pretty telling of the state of the industry and the fact that almost every single "MMO" currently out is just another quest hub theme park; people have no idea that anything else even exists.

     

    Scripting - Yes, storybricks uses scripting to define parameters and mob behavior, however the way that these parameters interact and the outcomes will most certainly surprise people, even the people writing the code. You may know that the orcs like gold and they will do their best to obtain it, but their methods depend on the variables that they encounter and each variable has the potential to drastically change their behavior (due to the way storybricks work). Emergent gameplay comes from the unexpected, its base is the randomness in the world taking shape (think of how our solar system formed). Remember that terrible Ashton Kutcher movie "The Butterfly Effect"? You will see that in action in EQN.

     

    As for your point about servers being completely different, this exact thing was stated by Dave Georgeson last year in the EQN keynote. Every server will progress differently based on the actions of the players on said server. There is a progression path that the players will work through but there are many different paths they can take in order to reach the milestones and many different outcomes along the way. Each server will be drastically different even if they are at the same story milestone / time period. There's no "we missed the quest so we'll just wait for server reset next week," it doesn't work like that. One and done is the name of the game. No phasing, no resets, no timers.

     

    If you guys want to argue about scripting and what it is, allow me to make the final and completely ludicrous leap to "everything in the universe is scripted because of the laws of physics." There we go, we've reached the point of absolute stupidity in the argument, no need to take things any further.

  • evilizedevilized Member UncommonPosts: 576
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by evilized

     

    Scripting - Yes, storybricks uses scripting to define parameters and mob behavior, however the way that these parameters interact and the outcomes will most certainly surprise people, even the people writing the code.You may know that the orcs like gold and they will do their best to obtain it, but their methods depend on the variables that they encounter and each variable has the potential to drastically change their behavior (due to the way storybricks work). Emergent gameplay comes from the unexpected, its base is the randomness in the world taking shape (think of how our solar system formed). Remember that terrible Ashton Kutcher movie "The Butterfly Effect"? You will see that in action in EQN.

    We will? How are you so certain? I mean I know that's the current plan - but there are no guarantees at all. How about "if all goes to plan we might see this in action in EQN"

     

    As for your point about servers being completely different, this exact thing was stated by Dave Georgeson last year in the EQN keynote. Every server will progress differently based on the actions of the players on said server.

    Again - things said in a keynote a year ago may not mean much for the actual final version of EQN. This again is one of those hypothetical "if all goes according to plan" things.

    There is a progression path that the players will work through but there are many different paths they can take in order to reach the milestones and many different outcomes along the way. Each server will be drastically different even if they are at the same story milestone / time period. There's no "we missed the quest so we'll just wait for server reset next week," it doesn't work like that. One and done is the name of the game. No phasing, no resets, no timers.

     More speculation on a feature that is not implemented yet. We don't know if this will ever materialize quite like promised.

    If you guys want to argue about scripting and what it is, allow me to make the final and completely ludicrous leap to "everything in the universe is scripted because of the laws of physics." There we go, we've reached the point of absolute stupidity in the argument, no need to take things any further.

     

    I'm not going to bother arguing with you Kano because there's no point. Your entire argument is "oh yeah? well what if things go catastrophically wrong?" and it's an endless cycle. If I'm basing my statements on "what ifs"  (in your eyes), what you're doing is exactly the same and we should just stop posting and the mods should probably go ahead and delete this forum because it's completely pointless.

     

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by Gdemami
    Here is how Storybrick scripting works:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3b_3UGc7Es#t=100It is essentially a quest builder. Many devs use something like that. CCP use similar tool to generate NPC missions.

    The discussion went quite off the track so I repost this to show people how Storybricks actually works. It is regular scripted behaviour, just more chained.

    People have once again unrealistic expectations.

  • amx23amx23 Member Posts: 102
    I have a suspicion that the devs are describing what is before them, in an unfinished state. That was enough to make Dave Georgeson giddy in pre-interviews. I mean, its a designers dream. Hell i was like that when i first saw the presentation where the dark elves without player interaction eventually wiped out the dryads. (and gave a fight with the shadow elementals the second time around). That is obviously sped up. It will be slowed down where we get to the fight. Where we can make an impact. Its a whole new system in mmorpgs. I treat it like an invention. Since its new, and not being refined.  If it works man that is something really good.
  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Gdemami
    Here is how Storybrick scripting works:

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3b_3UGc7Es#t=100

    It is essentially a quest builder. Many devs use something like that. CCP use similar tool to generate NPC missions.


     

    The discussion went quite off the track so I repost this to show people how Storybricks actually works. It is regular scripted behaviour, just more chained.

    People have once again unrealistic expectations.

         That was my impression too..  It won't be long that spoiler sites will have "cheat" methods on the Storybrick encounters of "How to" get on someone's bad side or good side and manipulate that scripted code.. 

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by amx23

    You dont think permanent change is anything ground-breaking? If you played mmos, and if you like the quest-line that was given, wouldnt it be nice for it to go on? Like after you've have completed your objectives, given an item(s) a playable class or whatever, The AI selects a new foe for your faction to tumble with based on wants needs or if the ogres in Southern Ro are militaristic and like to conquer. Goblins gain too much wealth and are now a faction by itself. The Roh-Song would be like that book in the movie "The Never-Ending Story". None of what i predicted was scripted other than programming the basic "wants, needs". Factions are one thing, but making you care about the world is another. They mention this isnt "good vs evil" that the "good side" might do things that are questionable and it all depends on what you care about. NPC groups are spread all over the world and have Everquest lore tied into them. Conquest in one little area could take weeks or months going back and forth with player intervention like a tug of war. 

    This AI system would ulltimately be awesome for RP guilds or those who generally care about the lore. Factions are a part of it. Im a paladin i want to help the church, i gain abilities that make me stronger because the more i do for an npc group the more they seek me out, the more the church gets attacked roh-song will tell me where the conflict areas are.  the more "fame" i get the more i access more content by other groups or get hunted.

    If permanant change was never implemented. This still wouldnt be a step back. I mean, the fact of no quest hubs or the fact npcs seek you out for quests based on criteria is still a step up. I think people are just bitter about SOE or Everquest for whatever reason they have.

         There is nothing ground breaking about permanent change to a game..  Plenty of games over the past decade have already done that.. They were very much like rallying calls, but called something else..  WoW's Sunwell Plateau is a perfect example and most of the Lich King patches were basically rallying calls progression patches..   As for being bitter.. People have a right to question or complain about something they don't like..  NO different then a new car model, or menu at their favorite restaurant..  Right?

    Originally posted by evilized

    The idea behind having storybricks is that the content is self-creating so you never run out. (you don't know that, and we don't know that.. they same thing can be said about dynamic events too.)  Have you ever played an MMORPG that didn't involve an endless gear grind at "endgame"? The amount of ignorance in this thread is really fairly staggering. It's pretty telling of the state of the industry and the fact that almost every single "MMO" currently out is just another quest hub theme park; people have no idea that anything else even exists.

     

    Scripting - Yes, storybricks uses scripting to define parameters and mob behavior, however the way that these parameters interact and the outcomes will most certainly surprise people, even the people writing the code. You may know that the orcs like gold and they will do their best to obtain it, but their methods depend on the variables that they encounter and each variable has the potential to drastically change their behavior (due to the way storybricks work). Emergent gameplay comes from the unexpected, its base is the randomness in the world taking shape (think of how our solar system formed). Remember that terrible Ashton Kutcher movie "The Butterfly Effect"? You will see that in action in EQN. (scripted code is predictable and caculated.. and it won't take long before people min/max NPC storybrick behavior to achieve a predictable outcome by the NPC.. Trust me, it will be done..  Do this, Do that, then this, ignore that, and kill him.. POOF = reward..  Technically according to the devs and Storybricks..  If I kill Mr. Farmer, he is DEAD to the game and no one can get a quest from him anymore.. Right?  If I kill Mr Farmer because my faction with him sucks, he'll just respawn later for the next player to interact with, so Storybricks isn't about world changing permanence is it?

     

    As for your point about servers being completely different, this exact thing was stated by Dave Georgeson last year in the EQN keynote. Every server will progress differently based on the actions of the players on said server. There is a progression path that the players will work through but there are many different paths they can take in order to reach the milestones and many different outcomes along the way. Each server will be drastically different even if they are at the same story milestone / time period. There's no "we missed the quest so we'll just wait for server reset next week," it doesn't work like that. One and done is the name of the game. No phasing, no resets, no timers. Keyword being progress.. Yes. each server will progress thru rallying calls at a different pace due to community involvement.. But guess what?  Eventually in the end, each server will build HALAS exactly the same.. So are servers really different?  I think not.. Now if a community has the ability to effect the END product of Halas the city, such as a city made of wood structures, or stone, or iron, or a city ruled by shaman's, or warriors.. etc etc.. Then Dave would be right, but that was NEVER said or implied, only the rate of progression.. Big Whoop

     

    If you guys want to argue about scripting and what it is, allow me to make the final and completely ludicrous leap to "everything in the universe is scripted because of the laws of physics." There we go, we've reached the point of absolute stupidity in the argument, no need to take things any further.

    As for that last part..  Where is the pre-written code on real life?  To relate and imply that Storybricks is similar to genetic code of likes and dislikes  and the game takes on a life of itself is ..  well..  ummmm..  interesting?   BTW, you do realize that Data from Star Trek was not real, it was played by an actor named Brent Spiner..

     

  • amx23amx23 Member Posts: 102

    Its inherent in the system that content will never run out. A group of orcs move in after a rallying call kills the dark elves. Boom, quest. Dark elementals spawn while "summoned" by dark elves, boom quest for dryads. Dryads die out. someone moves in territory. Needs change, boom quest. This is just needs and wants. Were talking about helping a merchant get wealthy and suddenly he walks around with regal attire. Theres tons of things initally that will never run out. Like the need for dwarves to get ale. building strongholds in new citadels of conquered territory. mining resources for factions. engaging in full scale battles and letting the dust settle...

     

    I can guarantee you noone is going to mid max in the beginning. Other than finding out classes its like a group of bums finding out how to get welfare its not that elaborate. The ability builds will change as soon as an item introduces itself to the world and it changes the strategic landscape. 

     

    Thats not the permanent change i was talking about. I was talking about something inherent in the system. A more of a "butterfly effect" where simple things like mining a resouce can lead to awe inspiring consequences. Life of consequence with Roh-song guiding you to events around you.

  • amx23amx23 Member Posts: 102
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by amx23

    Its inherent in the system that content will never run out. A group of orcs move in after a rallying call kills the dark elves. Boom, quest. Dark elementals spawn while "summoned" by dark elves, boom quest for dryads. Dryads die out. someone moves in territory. Needs change, boom quest. This is just needs and wants. Were talking about helping a merchant get wealthy and suddenly he walks around with regal attire. Theres tons of things initally that will never run out. Like the need for dwarves to get ale. building strongholds in new citadels of conquered territory. mining resources for factions. engaging in full scale battles and letting the dust settle...

     

    I can guarantee you noone is going to mid max in the beginning. Other than finding out classes its like a group of bums finding out how to get welfare its not that elaborate. The ability builds will change as soon as an item introduces itself to the world and it changes the strategic landscape. 

     

    Thats not the permanent change i was talking about. I was talking about something inherent in the system. A more of a "butterfly effect" where simple things like mining a resouce can lead to awe inspiring consequences. Life of consequence with Roh-song guiding you to events around you.

    This is conjecture taken to the point of absurdity.

     

     

    Watch the presentation. Notice the icons on the right side, the ones with numerical symbols. Those are quests. The butterfly effect is cited from 2 places, mining resources can change the behavior of an npc group. cited interview and article.

     

    (Massively, MMO attack, narrative done by my imagination)

  • amx23amx23 Member Posts: 102

     

    "can we have all the concepts that will express everything that people in this world care about, [this] was hard work it took months but now we have that..."

  • loulakiloulaki Member UncommonPosts: 944

    EQN without Storybricks and its voxel engine, its another SOE crap ...

     

    i wish Storybricks team joined another publisher even Blizzard to overhaul WoW .

    image

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359

    Those that can, do.

    Those that can't insist those that can, can't.

     

    Progress is made by those that see the impossible and say "perhaps there is a way" not by those that say "it is impossible, not worth trying".

     

     

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    Originally posted by amx23

     

    "can we have all the concepts that will express everything that people in this world care about, [this] was hard work it took months but now we have that..."

    Had not seen that video, thanks for sharing, awesome watch. Fun time ahead, combat comes to Landmark today....yay!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by amx23

    Its inherent in the system that content will never run out. A group of orcs move in after a rallying call kills the dark elves. Boom, quest. Dark elementals spawn while "summoned" by dark elves, boom quest for dryads. Dryads die out. someone moves in territory. Needs change, boom quest. This is just needs and wants. Were talking about helping a merchant get wealthy and suddenly he walks around with regal attire. Theres tons of things initally that will never run out. Like the need for dwarves to get ale. building strongholds in new citadels of conquered territory. mining resources for factions. engaging in full scale battles and letting the dust settle...

     

    I can guarantee you noone is going to mid max in the beginning. Other than finding out classes its like a group of bums finding out how to get welfare its not that elaborate. The ability builds will change as soon as an item introduces itself to the world and it changes the strategic landscape. 

     

    Thats not the permanent change i was talking about. I was talking about something inherent in the system. A more of a "butterfly effect" where simple things like mining a resouce can lead to awe inspiring consequences. Life of consequence with Roh-song guiding you to events around you.

    This is conjecture taken to the point of absurdity.

     

     

    Every panel I have watched and interview I have read says... its not conjecture, thats what storybrick says they can do with their system. I am waiting to see if its ture. I hope they can, I really really do. Im not ready to scream EQN is the MMO 2nd coming but if anyone can pull it off IMO its SoE. They have more talent and more top end MMOs then any other company.

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