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Why the hate against gear grinds?

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Comments

  • BalmersBalmers Member UncommonPosts: 7
    Originally posted by Aeander

    It all comes down to personal taste.

     

     

    And that's okay, because the genre, as it has been for too long, is stagnant and could use more diversity. It has room for tab target games and action combat games. Vertical and horizontal progression. Instanced and non-instanced. Open world pvp and non-open-world-pvp. Sandbox and themepark. Subscription, buy-to-play, and free-to-play.

     

     

    I would ask the better question - why is anyone opposed to diversification?

    Completely agree with those statements...

    Personally, I don't mind grinding (as in repeat stuff) as long as it's challenging... 

    MMOs nowadays are too easy to me. I wouldn't mind a bit of difficulty in some MMOs just to spice it up.

    Diversity is the key word I guess...

  • Velonius650Velonius650 Member UncommonPosts: 27

    The answer to the thread is right in the title of the thread - "grind".  Grind, by our definition, is a menial task that we are forced to repeat over and over to watch a bar move, +1 a stat, get better gear, etc all in order to do more of the same only better/quicker/faster/more efficiently.  It's at this point you realize what you're doing has no depth to it and how much time you've wasted. 

     

    Now, we all realize that everything takes a little bit of grind at the start....but it's for what purpose you are grinding that is the really important question.  If it's to get a better sword to go off and PvP....ok maybe you see that as a necessary evil to remain competitive with your peers so you can kill them better.  If you play competitive sports then you might look at "grinding" as the equivalent of going to practice.  Why do you practice? To be better for when the real games start.  But grinding for the sake of? Well to each his own I guess but you might have too much time on your hands. 

    DAOC (retired): RR11 Merc
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  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,016
    Originally posted by MyownGod
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Because gear grinds are boring.

    have there been any studies associating gear grinding with boredom?

    Not directly however there is studies regarding "repetition", its really based on logic. Ask your self would you work in an assembly line for a very long period of time, and all you get is a sets of fancy clothes instead of money? I don't think you would.

    the assembly line however is associated with increase in productivity and value at same cost.

     

    as a Quality engineer it's more or less grindy too. 

     

    stuff breaks, you chat with customer, you go and fix. stuff breaks elsewhere, you repeat. new model launches, start over. 

     

    it's funny how much my job is like an MMO.

     

    new model = expansion. 

    continuous improvement = grind.

     

    image

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Member UncommonPosts: 837
    Lazy design to keep players, I enjoyed the PvE experience over the gear grind.
  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Why have a level cap at all? Design the game so people can keep progressing their character in small ways infinitely and you don't need a gear grind. It's very possible to do this. 

     

    You can do this even with a level cap, see EQ

     

    Yes, EQ had gear to get too, but when you got a piece of gear in EQ it typically lasted you a long time, getting an upgrade in EQ was a big deal.  But that time inbetween gear drops you were getting AA to progress your character

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,140
    I personally love games with incredibly high levels and gear grinds. Without them it defeats the purpose for me to continue playing. Which is why I personally play MMOs more specifically old MMOs and/or Eastern. As they tend to have that type of gameplay for me. 

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Shayyd80Shayyd80 Member Posts: 110
    gear grind is played out, boring, tedious and monataneous (sp?). If you enjoy doing the same thing over and over like Battlegrounds you've been doing for years for pvp gear then have to do arena for arena gear, props to you! It's boring for us people that like to dive into a game and not have to worry about doing the same crap over and over because devs are too lazy to push out Xpacs like EQ and EQ-2 did. Content is better than gear IMO.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,347

    If items has permanent decay and are crafted, then gear grind wouldn't be necessary and mmos won't have to be rebalanced everytime something new comes out.

     

    Permanency of items and lack of ability to craft/purchase from crafters hgih level items is the calprit here.

     

    Mobs shouldn't drop items as straight loots, they should drop mats that enables the crafters.

  • TatercakeTatercake Member UncommonPosts: 286
    I understand  what you say  me myself i like it if games make it so crafters make the best gear  to me thats the best  player crafted gear
  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Member Posts: 489

    Liner, predictable, repeatable progression in MMOs isn't a very fun or unique design.

    It's better than random gear drop tables to an extent, but ultimately a souless form of progression. You're wasting hours looking at the same content over and over collecting badges to ultimately be the same character dozens of other players already are.

    Seems lazy design wise, and is just total appeasement for the bland crowd.

    There's just better and more dynamic ways out there to do it.

    a yo ho ho

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Because gear grinds are boring.

    have there been any studies associating gear grinding with boredom?

    The only people that need a study are those that don't understand the meanings of the words in that sentence.

    if you asked a subordinate at work to describe their job in one phrase and they said "a daily grind," would you really need further information to assess whether they were bored or not, or would that be a big red flag that there's a problem there?

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,140
    Originally posted by Shayyd80
    gear grind is played out, boring, tedious and monataneous (sp?). If you enjoy doing the same thing over and over like Battlegrounds you've been doing for years for pvp gear then have to do arena for arena gear, props to you! It's boring for us people that like to dive into a game and not have to worry about doing the same crap over and over because devs are too lazy to push out Xpacs like EQ and EQ-2 did. Content is better than gear IMO.

    Well that's your opinion, however in games like Wakfu where there's a high level grind and gear grind it works as there's sufficient continent to supplement grinding. Games with a large amount of grind also show the dedication and hard work a person has put into their character. It's a self satisfying achievement when I have a character in games like Angels Online, Path of Exile, and Wakfu which are better than others.

    I'm not going to find that same satisfying feeling when playing short term games such as League of Legends, WoW, and Wildstar for example. It takes no time at all to gear a character in those game.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,140
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Because gear grinds are boring.

    have there been any studies associating gear grinding with boredom?

    The only people that need a study are those that don't understand the meanings of the words in that sentence.

    if you asked a subordinate at work to describe their job in one phrase and they said "a daily grind," would you really need further information to assess whether they were bored or not, or would that be a big red flag that there's a problem there?

     

     

    That's a good way to put it, if someone doesn't like what they're doing for long periods of time they call it a grind. I should stop calling leveling/gear progression grind because I like it ;)

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
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