What made EQ for me was back in the early days, players were still amazed that such a world/game existed and appreciated it. As seen by so many negative folks, those times have changed. Between the wonder wearing off, getting older, being burned and let down time and time again, it seems it is hard for many to go back to that place. I enjoyed EQ itself and the players. Hoping on a forum or site for help or simply asking in game didn't get you attacked.
EQN could follow suit by making another game for a new generation and those willing to adapt from the old. The "newness" of it all is gone to some degree, but I think a quality game could bring some back around to actually enjoying themselves where games aren't jobs, chores, or addictions, but rather entertainment.
Sad to see so many that probably will never be satisfied with anything that comes out as the ideal game is so specific that it is impossible to create. Even those that come close will not be close enough, causing the cycle of looking to the next to keep repeating itself.
In the end, these games are what we make of them and how we approach what is offered. Take it or leave it, but there is nothing stopping anyone from at least trying to enjoy themselves.
What made EQ for me was back in the early days, players were still amazed that such a world/game existed and appreciated it. As seen by so many negative folks, those times have changed. Between the wonder wearing off, getting older, being burned and let down time and time again, it seems it is hard for many to go back to that place. I enjoyed EQ itself and the players. Hoping on a forum or site for help or simply asking in game didn't get you attacked. (Welcome to PvP forum chat, which seems to be par for course these days.. IMO the aggressive confrontational forums display the same issues with "in game" chat as well.. I seldom see unity and understanding on both forums and game chat..)
EQN could follow suit by making another game for a new generation and those willing to adapt from the old. (There is nothing wrong with liking some older mechanics, such as auto targeting.. I personally HATE twitch action combat in a PvE environment.) The "newness" of it all is gone to some degree, but I think a quality game could bring some back around to actually enjoying themselves where games aren't jobs, chores, or addictions, but rather entertainment. (See, to me twitch combat is a JOB.. it requires too much concentration and little room for distractions.. If I can't take my eyes off the screen because I have to always watch where I'm aiming.. NO Thanks)..
Sad to see so many that probably will never be satisfied with anything that comes out as the ideal game is so specific that it is impossible to create. Even those that come close will not be close enough, causing the cycle of looking to the next to keep repeating itself.
In the end, these games are what we make of them and how we approach what is offered. Take it or leave it, but there is nothing stopping anyone from at least trying to enjoy themselves.
I wish EQ would go back to the old days.. All I want is a good ROLE PLAYING .. PvE game that has a vast world full of vibrant social players.. OH.. I want character management and progression back, with hobbies (fishing), crafting and a meaningful economy.. Show me that game and I'll play it.. BTW..>> NO PVP BALANCING.. If you play a class that excels in PvE, but it quickly owned in PvP, oh well.. and vice versa.. I think ALL Classes should be PvE focused and the hell with PvP balance..
You might as well have a thread on, What made an apple an apple, and how could rotten apple follow suit? The design for the game feels like the people around the SOE office threw darts to see who got their idea in the game. They are not concerned about EQ fans. They say they are, but nothing they do indicates they are telling the truth.
Maybe EQ4 will be different.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
EQ did not create the want of people to work together towards a difficult common goal. It did not create a sense of adventure when playing an avatar in a virtual world, progressing to a distant milestone. Neither did it create friendships between people whim they spent many hours playing with.
People created those feelings, EQ merely facilitated it with its features. Other games have as well in one way or another and there no reason why EQN's features can't so the same.
If people don't WANT to be involved however that is their choice.
Many things made EQ "EQ" but let me name one thing that has not been done in any main stream mmo since.
What main stream mmo since EQ has let you drop and pick up items off the ground?
Sure there must be some indie mmo's but we are talking main stream, i sure hope this is a feature of EQN.
I also like the old class system meaning that you had to rely on other classes for certain things the main one being a wizard or druid to teleport you around the world.
Levitation has also been forgotten by mmo devs, the last mmo to have it was Vanguard.
Then you have the rogue lock picking and trap skills.
Also in EQ when it was dark it was really dark to the point of unless you were a certain race you needed an item or a spell to actually allow you to see on some parts of Luclin.
The sheer danger of being on an vast open world which was actually dangerous. I remember making my way to Qeynos from Odus at very low level and having to run through dangerous areas where you would get one shooted knowing you loose xp and a good chance of losing items if i could not get back to my corpse.
MMO of today are not true mmo's they are lobbies at best.
Originally posted by DMKano It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.
^This^ spot on pal.....Loading please wait!.....CR can I get a 100% rezz please?....can I get a KEI please will donate....Looking fir a drood port donating for a ride. Socialhites are what made this and other games of the time rock simple really. Sadly the likes of social media sites like twitter and FB have taken away many of them skills people used to have rather than adding to them. Weve gone form working together in games to pointing fingers at each other imo.
Until EQ, there was only 2.5 isometric UO. EQ brought 3D graphics. That was the first draw for me. Upon trying the game it felt like a virtual world more than a game. I loved the setting, and the lore, and the classes, and just everything. It was new, and shiny.
It had that new mmorpg smell we all love.
For me I really didn't mind the slow leveling so much. I hated the death penalty with a passion. Losing xp, and levels while all of your inventory, including equiped items, lay on your dead corpse was infuriating to me. I felt as through I was paying monthly to be abused as a customer. It was that death penalty that pushed me into trying every other mmorpg title as it was released. I sought the same game experience without the death torture. A game is suppose to be fun after all.
As far as I'm concerned, they could just do a massive graphic overhaul of EQ, change that masochistic death penalty, and re-release it as a new title. I would buy it.
Oh, to be an Eurdite Wizard of Solusek Ro once more . . .
Archlight you might have as well said rancid orange and not rotten apple. EQN outside of the IP is not going to be anything like EQ and thus its like apples and oranges.
OP what made EQ fun for me was a large number of things also you have to note that even EQ as years went on became watered down to something I didn't care for and quit. I played it for years until Shadows of Luclin. What are the things that made it what it was?
1) Factions - to make entire bits of content only available to those who did faction based things was great! You had entire cities that unless you worked at it you couldn't even enter. On top of this even within cities you may have other characters that attacked you just because they didn't like you. The in depth faction system is something that has been dropped and its someone likes you or doesn't and there is nothing you can do about it and I can't stand that. I loved when you would sit outside a city and see people actually fighting guard NPCs for experience. Then you had the rogues who could sneak and it was a real gamble to sneak into a faction city you weren't liked in.
2) Skills were unique - not everyone could teleport, not everyone could make you run fast, not everyone could revive and so on down the line. games these days seem to deem this kind of thing "unfair" and make these skills that everyone can have with just a different animation per character. I can't stand classless system games that homogenize the entire experience. It kills replay ability and it waters down the different experiences.
3) Death being feared - This is something that I think is a must in an MMO (heck any game) it will make your experience be something you need to weigh out risk vrs reward. These days in MMOs I jump into every fight and I just don't care if I die. There were times in EQ that I literally had to just say no to someone because the rewards I would have had weren't worth the risks of the party formed. Think I am making this up? Do a test yourself, get a new to you single player game tell yourself you are going to play it for three lives and that is it. Have someone look at your game play. Then turn on god mode and see how you play then. Different huh?
4) Travel system - The original EQ had no instant travels, no mini-map, heck even the compass was based on a typed in command that MAY or may not work. These days they have little pointers and indicators and maps to the point that if you don't know where next then you are very special needs indeed.
5) Quests could be failed - I loved it that if you gave the quest giver the wrong things you could fail the quest. These days they don't take things unless they should have it. I say allow the quest giver to be given ANYTHING and if you give them the wrong thing too bad. Lifelike and not dumbed down.
What could they do to make a GOOD EQ? Just a few simple steps
A) Copy old EQ (pre Shadows of Luclin) and update graphics.
Elaborate on the faction system even more. Make it so quests you get and their rewards (both complexity of the quest, and the reward level from your turn in) all hinge on your faction standings.
C) Kill the zones and make it seamless except for things like the planes and dungeon zones.
D) Make it living world - It would be great if they made cities need to be defended, make it so the vendors need resupply, and even have cities grow and fall due to wars and participation.
E) Add in housing - this was the one thing I missed in the original EQ. I don't care if its instanced or world based, I just like my own little area to modify
This to me the above idea would be a GREAT game. I stopped playing at Shadows of Luclin because I saw how the Devs were headed to the way MMOs are now being made these days. I am saddened by the "dumbing down" of MMOs as well as things being developed mainly for the extra cash income. If you notice the time I stopped playing a majority of the time spent on MMOs is about the time DLC came into being and this spelled the downfall to most MMOs going forward. The mentality of MMO development since DLCs came into play has severely declined because of the developers have wanted to do what they can to make the money rather than adding to the game because of player requests and story arc additions.
EQN, as it's been explained, has all of the things you listed other than being a carbon copy of EQ. Of course that may be enough not to like EQN but that was the thought behind this thread, with how different they are designing the game what features will illicit the same feelings.
You might as well have a thread on, What made an apple an apple, and how could rotten apple follow suit? The design for the game feels like the people around the SOE office threw darts to see who got their idea in the game. They are not concerned about EQ fans. They say they are, but nothing they do indicates they are telling the truth.
Maybe EQ4 will be different.
I don't see them saying they are "concerned" for EQ fans. They've actually said that if you like EQ/EQ2, they will continue to exist and be supported. Basically, "If you prefer those games, play them." This idea that EQ fans are some how entitled or deserve to be the main target for EQN or any future SOE game seems off. I'm an EQ fan, your an EQ fan, yet we do not see eye to eye. They are making a game with potential to be fun if you allow it. If you have to have XYZ like EQ, then no it will not be for you. While I don't believe they went the dart route, I bet they sat around and went "okay, what has worked, what hasn't, what is, where is the market going, what are players playing?" EQ isn't really the answer to any of those questions. They are a business and there are a huge number of potential customers. Going after a niche market (hardcore early EQ fans) is not a wise move.
Originally posted by DMKano It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.
Ding ding ding.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
What made EQ for me was back in the early days, players were still amazed that such a world/game existed and appreciated it. As seen by so many negative folks, those times have changed. Between the wonder wearing off, getting older, being burned and let down time and time again, it seems it is hard for many to go back to that place. I enjoyed EQ itself and the players. Hoping on a forum or site for help or simply asking in game didn't get you attacked. (Welcome to PvP forum chat, which seems to be par for course these days.. IMO the aggressive confrontational forums display the same issues with "in game" chat as well.. I seldom see unity and understanding on both forums and game chat..)
EQN could follow suit by making another game for a new generation and those willing to adapt from the old. (There is nothing wrong with liking some older mechanics, such as auto targeting.. I personally HATE twitch action combat in a PvE environment.) The "newness" of it all is gone to some degree, but I think a quality game could bring some back around to actually enjoying themselves where games aren't jobs, chores, or addictions, but rather entertainment. (See, to me twitch combat is a JOB.. it requires too much concentration and little room for distractions.. If I can't take my eyes off the screen because I have to always watch where I'm aiming.. NO Thanks)..
Sad to see so many that probably will never be satisfied with anything that comes out as the ideal game is so specific that it is impossible to create. Even those that come close will not be close enough, causing the cycle of looking to the next to keep repeating itself.
In the end, these games are what we make of them and how we approach what is offered. Take it or leave it, but there is nothing stopping anyone from at least trying to enjoy themselves.
I wish EQ would go back to the old days.. All I want is a good ROLE PLAYING .. PvE game that has a vast world full of vibrant social players.. OH.. I want character management and progression back, with hobbies (fishing), crafting and a meaningful economy.. Show me that game and I'll play it.. BTW..>> NO PVP BALANCING.. If you play a class that excels in PvE, but it quickly owned in PvP, oh well.. and vice versa.. I think ALL Classes should be PvE focused and the hell with PvP balance..
As of now, I view EQN as becoming exactly what you listed at the bottom. While obviously subjective on what is "good", there is no reason EQN can't be a RPG, vast open world, social, deep character progression, trades, crafting, economy, unbalanced PVP, etc. Some particular mechanics (action combat, no trinity, no tab) might not be to your liking, but they are never going to hit every bullet point on our wish list. Although I find it strange you basically want a lazy mechanic because paying attention is too much hassle. Having to move around and be active doesn't seem too much more intense then having to memorize 50 buttons. Either one, if you doze off, probably going to get smacked down.
We all have to weigh the options and decide if we can deal with X if Y looks good. Is having to pay attention to combat a good trade off if they provide a high quality world to play in? Answer might be no, but until we give it a go, I think it is a bit early to write anything off.
I used to enjoy point and click games, now I can't stand them. Used to like tab targeting, now prefer action. Games, trends, people change, for better or worse. If you can't/won't adapt and accept what is available, only one missing out is you.
EQN isn't the answer to my mmorpg prayers, but it comes close from what they've presented. When it comes down to it, if I want to play one of these games, basically have to decide which offers the most pros vs cons. Currently none have enough pros to be worth playing for me. EQN could follow this or be as good as I hope.
That's why I started this thread as it has already evolved into more than just a theoretical discussion. When I see an opinion like yours I immediately ask myself why someone feels like this. EverQuest is a collection of features and lore set into a world, just like any other MMO. It was the specifics of its features and the world that gave EQ a certain feeling to those who did, and may still, play.
EQN will not be an EQ clone but that doesn't mean the overall play of its feature set will be much different in spirit. Already I've seen equivalents and even improvements in the answers listed in this thread.
I'm sorry bro, but you 100% are deluding yourself if you think anything about EQN will be anything like EQ with the sole exception of the lore and the world, both of which, btw, have been heavily altered to fit their new disneyquest direction. Firiona Vie with a bow?, seriously, just, wtf.
This game is basically pissing all over everything that EQ was and represented in the MMO world.
While i care, i don't care too much, because im not any worse off when this frankenstein comes out then i was before. The MMO genre is dead IMO and EQN aint gonna be the one that resurrects it.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Other than a lot of great stuff already mentioned.. it was the feeling you had when you were in Norrath. Not playing a game, but being in another world.
But to list a few things:
From the beginning on the game was a bare frame that allowed you to live and progress in the world, without slick interfaces, smooth systems or hardly any form of convenience. You had to make do with the basics that were handed to you.
Quest? Actually TALK to npc's, not right click and accept. No, start a conversation to find out what you can help them with. Of course the keyword system was still a system, but it engaged you into the situation so much more than "click, accept, check map where objectives appear and go do them".
Want a PvP tournament? Don't join the arena system, players organise them in the Freeport arena.
Traveling was exploring: the world wasn't easily traversed. One of the reasons why I can bide my time with Archeage now is I enjoy the "handicapped" travel for trade runs. No teleports, actual travel. Back in old EQ days me and my lowbie friend (lvl 10-12 both) planned on moving away from our starting city (where I met this friend) Qeynos and set up base in Freeport. We planned the journey, had to specifically think of not traveling through certain zones in night time, etc.
Things to do: I had a high level druid friend that let me hang out with him whilst he hunted giants...GIANTS! I was struck with awe the first time I saw him down one.
Social/economy: I was invited to a guild, the brotherhood of the arcane fist, and was gifted an ice crystal staff when I joined. This magical item accompanied me from level 5 to level 12, until I started my trading empire. At first I felt guilty for selling the ice crystal staff, but it gave me my "starting capital" with which I started to buy cheap, in order to sell for more. At level 12 I had several hundreds of platinum, which was an enormous amount at the time, outriching many level 60s.
Small things: hunting wisps for lightstones, exploring blackburrow only to find a giant snake at the bottom of a pit, waiting for a ship to another continent and engaging into a conversation with a random player also waiting, falling into the ocean but swimming to an island only to find cyclopses on there. Accidentally giving my earth elemental a 60pp weapon in stead of the cheap one of a few silver I just bought.
Things mattered: death was a serious penalty.
The fact you had to either find things out for yourself or ask other players. Although in this time with internet being as big as it is, it probably wouldn't take long for pretty much everything to be on the internet.
Long story short: EQ was about what you wanted to do, not what the game told you to do. It took me three months to get my character up to level 16, because I wasn't focused on leveling. I was living and breathing the world that was Norrath, and I played every second I could.
If you want to make an MMORPG that lives up to EQ, stop making a game. Create a world. And add as few tools as possible that allow players to progress and experience the world. Do not take players on a leash. Do not give players directions.
I'm sorry bro, but you 100% are deluding yourself if you think anything about EQN will be anything like EQ with the sole exception of the lore and the world, both of which, btw, have been heavily altered to fit their new disneyquest direction. Firiona Vie with a bow?, seriously, just, wtf.
This game is basically pissing all over everything that EQ was and represented in the MMO world.
While i care, i don't care too much, because im not any worse off when this frankenstein comes out then i was before. The MMO genre is dead IMO and EQN aint gonna be the one that resurrects it.
Let me guess, you love the grind, vertical power stacking treadmills, needing to work er I mean play 40+ hours a week to be "the best", getting kicked in the face for any mistakes (death, race/class/god choice), sitting in the same spot for hours/days for an item, lots of down/travel time where you can type all your communications with others, having to pick one role forever or have to restart from scratch? I'm sure there is more, but I'm curious as what else you think EQN or any game should have to stay true to EQ, beyond of course the lore and world.
I get being a fan and what not, but EQ hit its prime in what 4 years maybe? The 11 since have been treading water. Was a good game that catered to those of us that enjoyed fantasy, gaming, actually knew how to get on the internet, and had way too much free time but we are not the majority anymore, not even a minority really.
I personally enjoyed the pace of EQ. I liked having time to talk while in a group. I liked spending time leveling up and not zooming through content. I like the idea of going to a camp or area of a dungeon and hunting there for awhile.
EQN looks like its going to be go go go action AOE combat and when combat is like that I expect progression to be fairly quick. I dont foresee EQN having anything in common with EQ other than lore and land.
I loved that each race had their own starting city, and each class had their special place in that city. I loved the sounds in EQ, when you where in a forest it felt like you where in a forest. I loved being kos to the goddie factions, made traveling more fun and so on and so on:)
Something tells me in EQN everybody will be plunked down in one place with no ties to ones city, but I could be wrong. I don't know what to think anymore and it is to early for this game.
I'm sorry bro, but you 100% are deluding yourself if you think anything about EQN will be anything like EQ with the sole exception of the lore and the world, both of which, btw, have been heavily altered to fit their new disneyquest direction. Firiona Vie with a bow?, seriously, just, wtf.
This game is basically pissing all over everything that EQ was and represented in the MMO world.
While i care, i don't care too much, because im not any worse off when this frankenstein comes out then i was before. The MMO genre is dead IMO and EQN aint gonna be the one that resurrects it.
Let me guess, you love the grind, vertical power stacking treadmills, needing to work er I mean play 40+ hours a week to be "the best", getting kicked in the face for any mistakes (death, race/class/god choice), sitting in the same spot for hours/days for an item, lots of down/travel time where you can type all your communications with others, having to pick one role forever or have to restart from scratch? I'm sure there is more, but I'm curious as what else you think EQN or any game should have to stay true to EQ, beyond of course the lore and world.
I get being a fan and what not, but EQ hit its prime in what 4 years maybe? The 11 since have been treading water. Was a good game that catered to those of us that enjoyed fantasy, gaming, actually knew how to get on the internet, and had way too much free time but we are not the majority anymore, not even a minority really.
Not entirely, but thank you for putting words into my mouth and perpetuating some BS stereotype of old school gamers.
What i loved about EQ was:
1. Art Style. Semi serious but still high fantasy. Not disney/wow with huge shoulders and double jumping, and parkour running all over the place as show in the EQN video.
2. Difficulty of play. By difficulty i mean, mobs were hard, dungeons were unforgiving. A large portion of content required multiple people working together to get through. You had to actually pay attention to what you were doing and when. Counter that to something like GW2 where you can basically mash whatever button you want and still be very succesful.
3. Clearly defined classes and roles. In EQ you needed someone to crowd control, you needed someone to tank, you needed someone to heal, you needed someone to do DPS. This made people's characters have an identity. While you were bad at many things, generally you were very good at 1 or 2 specific things. In EQN your character is basically meaningless as you can change on the fly your role, you have NO identity, whatsoever. The only difference between you and any other person is whether you're a goofy looking lion, a human, or whatever.
4. Factions meant something. If you were a high elf paladin, and you tried to walk into an area dominated by Dark Elves, you better be prepared to get stomped into the ground. But, maybe you were a sadist, and you wanted to kill a bunch of mobs that the DE's hated so you could gain enough faction with them that they wouldnt kill you on site. This was an option. While EQN *may* have something like this, they've already stated that no race will be KoS to another race. Once again, this removes character identity.
There are many other things, but im not going to list the more minute stuff.
If im being honest, what irks me the most about the game is the art direction, both the style of the game, and the way the game plays. If you watch the videos everyone runs stupid fast, things like cliff faces and hill and such are not even in the realm of obstacles to traverse, you just do some lame parkour slide or hop. The double jumping was especially stupid. No effing idea why they would put that in the game.
For it to be an EQ game i think it needs 3 things:
1. Art direction consistent with the franchise, but modernized in terms of graphics, poly count, textures, etc.
2. Clearly defined classes with their own specific abilities. Characters should have identity.
3. Large world with a functioning meaningful faction system. And i don't just mean NPC vs PC. This world should also have multiple starting areas and each race should have its own city. I know this is a huge investment in terms of development, but having 1 or 2 cities for good and evil races etc completely detracts from the feeling of a world.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Sadly, there will never be another EQ. Actually knowing where you were due to the long hikes to get to your grinding zone of choice. A couple of my faves were Hill Giant Fort and of course the ramp in OT. In most MMOs I play support classes, and EQ had the best. Roles that actually made you feel you were doing your part to help your party kick ass. *cgh* BARDS *cgh*
It used to mean something when you had to go get a certain named mob. Sometimes waiting for days to get the dude to spawn, just to have someone run in last minute and take the kill. But when you finally got the kill and the loot (damn monk paws),! The feeling of reward was something that is still unmatched in todays games.
And possibly one of my favorite things to do in EQ was sit near the bank casting temp and the like for fat stacks of plat!
Money for your spells!
Some may look at these things and see them as negatives, such as the rare mobhunting. But to me it is the very thing that is missing today and made EQ what it was, the reason people will continue to speak of it in such reverence.
hah, I like how some people pine for the supposed group conversation of EQ1. I'm guessing these people played support classes or 'dps' classes. As a puller and tank, I never had time to chat with group mates. But the Wizard, et al, sure did. Sit on his butt until he fires off his one nuke per pull.
Having said that, I did enjoy my time in EQ, but it did need improvement. It was new, and unique so of course everything was fun. But I won't get into the deficits here.
What I enjoyed was the real choices you had, even to the point of self-gimping. I know some are not fans of this, but it did allow you to sort of determine your own level of difficulty and pain tolerance. You could play an Erudite Paladin (perhaps worst class/race combination in the game), and then make a name for yourself at high level because you were unique. Or play around with factions so that you could get places were others couldn't. I had a 10th Dark Elf warrior who could roam around the frost giant keep (~50lvl) pretty much a leasure because he was of the correct religion/faction. I had a low level Bard who did the same thing in the high level Dragon areas.
I also enjoyed dynamic world systems like Kithcor Forest, if I'm remembering right? During the day, generally peaceful and safe for low levels. At night, high level undead would spawn and be deadly to even high level characters. I absolutely loved this. Then there was the high level mobs that might randomly spawn and wander around low level areas, injecting a bit of chaos into routine. That was smart design.
Also, I did enjoy many of the hidden quests that took a lot of puzzling out to finish. And then if you were absolutely stumped, you could 'cheat' and look online. Not a huge fan of modern quests being so easy.
I mentioned faction as being fun, but I also enjoyed the language system that was part of it. It was sort of a hachnyed system, and seemed incomplete, but learning obscure languages so that one could talk with rare creatures had a lot of potential.
These are the main elements I'd import to any modern MMO.
Not entirely, but thank you for putting words into my mouth and perpetuating some BS stereotype of old school gamers.
Just taking a guess, but I do see such things given as why people enjoyed EQ. Being "hardcore" and basically punishing themselves proves something apparently.
What i loved about EQ was:
1. Art Style. Semi serious but still high fantasy. Not disney/wow with huge shoulders and double jumping, and parkour running all over the place as show in the EQN video.
While I disagree that any of the previous games were "semi serious", I do understand that how far they took the stylized look is not welcome to many. Still seems "high fantasy" to me though. I'm hoping that once they add in more variation beyond the happy rainbow stuff, it might be more appealing. The DE stuff from SOE Live was a good start.
2. Difficulty of play. By difficulty i mean, mobs were hard, dungeons were unforgiving. A large portion of content required multiple people working together to get through.
No reason EQN won't have this.
3. Clearly defined classes and roles. This made people's characters have an identity.
This still appears to exist except players will be able to have multiple instead of one. Just because someone unlocks a class, shouldn't mean they instantly master it. I would much rather be known as a good player then just a good Warrior. With their comparison to MOBA roles, classes/roles should still be a very important aspect of game play. I wear many hats in real life and I'd I enjoy games where I can do the same.
4. Factions meant something.
Seem to still. The Combine races might not be KOS at the start, no reason there can't be offshoots and whatever else in the game that is unfriendly.
For it to be an EQ game i think it needs 3 things:
1. Art direction consistent with the franchise, but modernized in terms of graphics, poly count, textures, etc.
2. Clearly defined classes with their own specific abilities. Characters should have identity.
3. Large world with a functioning meaningful faction system. And i don't just mean NPC vs PC. This world should also have multiple starting areas and each race should have its own city. I know this is a huge investment in terms of development, but having 1 or 2 cities for good and evil races etc completely detracts from the feeling of a world.
I get where you are coming from and it is unfortunate that SOE has gone in a different direction in these key areas, but they are a business and the millions of customers out there need to be catered to. While things like art are subjective, difficulty and how classes/roles function aren't too hard to do for EQN. No reason to assume that someone can't only play one class and be really good at it compared to those flip flopping all over the place. We don't know how combat itself will work, but hopefully it isn't a mindless DPS race like so many other games.
I think you'll be missing out if you pass on EQN, but we all make our own choices. I'm willing to give it a go as I have done over the years for all the various games that have come out. Personally, a game having 1 or 20 starting areas isn't worth passing on if it turns out to be a quality experience overall. They are trying something new and I support it as the old ways of doing it has left the genre with a lot of meh products and me unsatisfied.
Looking at the genre, it appears several games are going the same route as EQN and it just the way it is. Action combat, horizontal gameplay, and unrestricted character development appear to be the future. Making players decide on day one what they'll be doing 5 years down the line seems to be dead. I still hope to find plenty of challenge, need for others, and choices to matter. I'm willing to take a hit in the art department for that. As I hate having to juggle alts and redo content if I even want to see if I might want to play something else, the class swapping is something I really look forward to.
You seem to have some fundamental issues with EQN and where the genre is heading. It is too bad, but we all find ourselves at points where we either stop and go down another path or keep on. I'm keeping on until it is no longer fun.
Not entirely, but thank you for putting words into my mouth and perpetuating some BS stereotype of old school gamers.
Just taking a guess, but I do see such things given as why people enjoyed EQ. Being "hardcore" and basically punishing themselves proves something apparently.
I honestly can't say once in my life have i actually had someone tell me that they liked camping 15 hours for an item in EQ. I've had people say it wasnt too big a deal b/c they could do other stuff like laundry, or other tasks in between. A lot of people that quote that don't realize that the mob spawn time in EQ averaged 16-25 minutes depending on the camp and dungeon. It wasnt like you were just sitting there eyes glued to the screen for 8 hours. That being said, the game wasnt perfect, by any stretch, can some of the super long camp times were definitely part of the bad part of EQ.
What i loved about EQ was:
1. Art Style. Semi serious but still high fantasy. Not disney/wow with huge shoulders and double jumping, and parkour running all over the place as show in the EQN video.
While I disagree that any of the previous games were "semi serious", I do understand that how far they took the stylized look is not welcome to many. Still seems "high fantasy" to me though. I'm hoping that once they add in more variation beyond the happy rainbow stuff, it might be more appealing. The DE stuff from SOE Live was a good start.
Its really the whole disneyfication of it that i think is what bothers most people, i know thats what it is for me. WoW, while i didnt *enjoy* the art style, was at least consistent with the previous games, etc. This game is a massive departure which was clearly only done because they think it will appeal to a broader audience (translation = $$$). EQN is a game that is being designed solely to make money, not to be a good game (IMO).
2. Difficulty of play. By difficulty i mean, mobs were hard, dungeons were unforgiving. A large portion of content required multiple people working together to get through.
No reason EQN won't have this.
NO reason EQN can't have this is what you should of said. Unfortunately, all the videos ive seen, and all the discussions and panels ive watched, indicate otherwise. Time well tell, but every indication is that this game is going to cater to what i call "casuals".
3. Clearly defined classes and roles. This made people's characters have an identity.
This still appears to exist except players will be able to have multiple instead of one. Just because someone unlocks a class, shouldn't mean they instantly master it. I would much rather be known as a good player then just a good Warrior. With their comparison to MOBA roles, classes/roles should still be a very important aspect of game play. I wear many hats in real life and I'd I enjoy games where I can do the same.
See, thats the thing, you can create another character and be known as a good warrior and a good monk, or rogue, or cleric, or whatever. Why does it have to be all in one. I don't get that mentality.
4. Factions meant something.
Seem to still. The Combine races might not be KOS at the start, no reason there can't be offshoots and whatever else in the game that is unfriendly.
Once again, this is a time will tell type of situation, like you said no reason it can't be, other than that again, its one of those things that casuals will complain about. "Why should i have to watch out for one NPC that can kill me and another that might not". Its just laziness, having to consider a target and make sure that this DE isnt a SK that hates everyone, whereas the other DE in the other town was maybe just a warrior who didnt care so much, etc.
For it to be an EQ game i think it needs 3 things:
1. Art direction consistent with the franchise, but modernized in terms of graphics, poly count, textures, etc.
2. Clearly defined classes with their own specific abilities. Characters should have identity.
3. Large world with a functioning meaningful faction system. And i don't just mean NPC vs PC. This world should also have multiple starting areas and each race should have its own city. I know this is a huge investment in terms of development, but having 1 or 2 cities for good and evil races etc completely detracts from the feeling of a world.
I get where you are coming from and it is unfortunate that SOE has gone in a different direction in these key areas, but they are a business and the millions of customers out there need to be catered to. While things like art are subjective, difficulty and how classes/roles function aren't too hard to do for EQN. No reason to assume that someone can't only play one class and be really good at it compared to those flip flopping all over the place. We don't know how combat itself will work, but hopefully it isn't a mindless DPS race like so many other games.
But we do know how combat will work, they've released videos. Basically its going to be a lot like GW2, with lots of dodging crap, jumping around, and frankly a more action oriented style of play. While this will appeal to twitch gamers, its not EQ. /shrug
The reality is also that anytime you have people be able to be a bunch of different roles, they invariably suck at most of them. Thats part of human nature, you have to practice something to be good at it. Thats assuming of course that something takes skill in the first place. Unfortunately many games, and i suspect EQN will be one of them, dumb things down so much that as long as you mash one of the 4 buttons they give you, its going to be hard to not succeed.
I think you'll be missing out if you pass on EQN, but we all make our own choices. I'm willing to give it a go as I have done over the years for all the various games that have come out. Personally, a game having 1 or 20 starting areas isn't worth passing on if it turns out to be a quality experience overall. They are trying something new and I support it as the old ways of doing it has left the genre with a lot of meh products and me unsatisfied.
Well, if it continues in the way im expecting, i won't be missing out on anything. If, and this is a big If, they happen to start releasing information that leads me to believe otherwise. Im not opposed to changing my mind. But all i can do is base my opinion off what i've seen. And what i've seen is bad bad bad bad.
Looking at the genre, it appears several games are going the same route as EQN and it just the way it is. Action combat, horizontal gameplay, and unrestricted character development appear to be the future. Making players decide on day one what they'll be doing 5 years down the line seems to be dead. I still hope to find plenty of challenge, need for others, and choices to matter. I'm willing to take a hit in the art department for that. As I hate having to juggle alts and redo content if I even want to see if I might want to play something else, the class swapping is something I really look forward to.
You seem to have some fundamental issues with EQN and where the genre is heading. It is too bad, but we all find ourselves at points where we either stop and go down another path or keep on. I'm keeping on until it is no longer fun.
You are absolutely correct that i have fundamental issues with EQN and the genre in general. As you said, we find ourselves at a point where we are faced with making a decision. But that doesn't mean im not gonna bitch about it. I realize that im probably at that point, and like i said, IMO the genre is dead. Thats from my perspective. Also, like i said, im not really any worse off. If they continue to make garbage, vs making nothing, its 6 of one half the dozen of the other to me.
Unfortunately Rift pre expansion was the last time i've had fun in an MMO, and then they did what every other MMO in history has done and made a bunch of changes to make it more appealing to casuals, and guess what, its been losing more and more players since.
Personally i think the MMO and gaming industry in general is in a bubble thats about to burst. I dont think the current trends are sustainable, especially with companies like EA who are focused on fleecing people. Eventually people will become the wiser, some slower than others, but it will happen. It happened in the 80's, and all the indications are very similar to back then. So, will history repeat itself? who knows.
Edit:
I also wanted to mention, at no point have i ever seen one of the developers or people talking about EQN, who have gone "man, we did this to the game, or we're gonna do that, because its just cool!"
Its always been "well, our research indicates X, and we did Y because of this trend in the industry".
I just don't get the impression its a team of people who are making a game they're excited about. I get the impressions its a project they've been assigned to, and they're just checking boxes off the list of "features that need to be in a modern MMO"
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I also wanted to mention, at no point have i ever seen one of the developers or people talking about EQN, who have gone "man, we did this to the game, or we're gonna do that, because its just cool!"
Its always been "well, our research indicates X, and we did Y because of this trend in the industry".
I just don't get the impression its a team of people who are making a game they're excited about. I get the impressions its a project they've been assigned to, and they're just checking boxes off the list of "features that need to be in a modern MMO"
This seems to explain all of the other comments that you had above, which I read all of it. I'm curious as to what material you're referring to in your opinion of their motivations.
I've seen quite the opposite on many occasions so I'm interested.
Comments
Nope, the "action combat" and cartoonishness are staying.
The game is designed from go to be played with a PS controller, so that is no surprise.
And as it is going to be F2P from go, that is another negative factor imo (for all that being a F2P game brings in).
Add to that, it is being made by SOE, which has a poor record and reputation, as far as I am concerned.
Put it all together, and my interest in this game is basically nil, "EQ" or not.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
What made EQ for me was back in the early days, players were still amazed that such a world/game existed and appreciated it. As seen by so many negative folks, those times have changed. Between the wonder wearing off, getting older, being burned and let down time and time again, it seems it is hard for many to go back to that place. I enjoyed EQ itself and the players. Hoping on a forum or site for help or simply asking in game didn't get you attacked.
EQN could follow suit by making another game for a new generation and those willing to adapt from the old. The "newness" of it all is gone to some degree, but I think a quality game could bring some back around to actually enjoying themselves where games aren't jobs, chores, or addictions, but rather entertainment.
Sad to see so many that probably will never be satisfied with anything that comes out as the ideal game is so specific that it is impossible to create. Even those that come close will not be close enough, causing the cycle of looking to the next to keep repeating itself.
In the end, these games are what we make of them and how we approach what is offered. Take it or leave it, but there is nothing stopping anyone from at least trying to enjoy themselves.
I wish EQ would go back to the old days.. All I want is a good ROLE PLAYING .. PvE game that has a vast world full of vibrant social players.. OH.. I want character management and progression back, with hobbies (fishing), crafting and a meaningful economy.. Show me that game and I'll play it.. BTW..>> NO PVP BALANCING.. If you play a class that excels in PvE, but it quickly owned in PvP, oh well.. and vice versa.. I think ALL Classes should be PvE focused and the hell with PvP balance..
You might as well have a thread on, What made an apple an apple, and how could rotten apple follow suit? The design for the game feels like the people around the SOE office threw darts to see who got their idea in the game. They are not concerned about EQ fans. They say they are, but nothing they do indicates they are telling the truth.
Maybe EQ4 will be different.
EQ did not create the want of people to work together towards a difficult common goal. It did not create a sense of adventure when playing an avatar in a virtual world, progressing to a distant milestone. Neither did it create friendships between people whim they spent many hours playing with.
People created those feelings, EQ merely facilitated it with its features. Other games have as well in one way or another and there no reason why EQN's features can't so the same.
If people don't WANT to be involved however that is their choice.
Many things made EQ "EQ" but let me name one thing that has not been done in any main stream mmo since.
What main stream mmo since EQ has let you drop and pick up items off the ground?
Sure there must be some indie mmo's but we are talking main stream, i sure hope this is a feature of EQN.
I also like the old class system meaning that you had to rely on other classes for certain things the main one being a wizard or druid to teleport you around the world.
Levitation has also been forgotten by mmo devs, the last mmo to have it was Vanguard.
Then you have the rogue lock picking and trap skills.
Also in EQ when it was dark it was really dark to the point of unless you were a certain race you needed an item or a spell to actually allow you to see on some parts of Luclin.
The sheer danger of being on an vast open world which was actually dangerous. I remember making my way to Qeynos from Odus at very low level and having to run through dangerous areas where you would get one shooted knowing you loose xp and a good chance of losing items if i could not get back to my corpse.
MMO of today are not true mmo's they are lobbies at best.
^This^ spot on pal.....Loading please wait!.....CR can I get a 100% rezz please?....can I get a KEI please will donate....Looking fir a drood port donating for a ride. Socialhites are what made this and other games of the time rock simple really. Sadly the likes of social media sites like twitter and FB have taken away many of them skills people used to have rather than adding to them. Weve gone form working together in games to pointing fingers at each other imo.
Asbo
Until EQ, there was only 2.5 isometric UO. EQ brought 3D graphics. That was the first draw for me. Upon trying the game it felt like a virtual world more than a game. I loved the setting, and the lore, and the classes, and just everything. It was new, and shiny.
It had that new mmorpg smell we all love.
For me I really didn't mind the slow leveling so much. I hated the death penalty with a passion. Losing xp, and levels while all of your inventory, including equiped items, lay on your dead corpse was infuriating to me. I felt as through I was paying monthly to be abused as a customer. It was that death penalty that pushed me into trying every other mmorpg title as it was released. I sought the same game experience without the death torture. A game is suppose to be fun after all.
As far as I'm concerned, they could just do a massive graphic overhaul of EQ, change that masochistic death penalty, and re-release it as a new title. I would buy it.
Oh, to be an Eurdite Wizard of Solusek Ro once more . . .
Archlight you might have as well said rancid orange and not rotten apple. EQN outside of the IP is not going to be anything like EQ and thus its like apples and oranges.
OP what made EQ fun for me was a large number of things also you have to note that even EQ as years went on became watered down to something I didn't care for and quit. I played it for years until Shadows of Luclin. What are the things that made it what it was?
1) Factions - to make entire bits of content only available to those who did faction based things was great! You had entire cities that unless you worked at it you couldn't even enter. On top of this even within cities you may have other characters that attacked you just because they didn't like you. The in depth faction system is something that has been dropped and its someone likes you or doesn't and there is nothing you can do about it and I can't stand that. I loved when you would sit outside a city and see people actually fighting guard NPCs for experience. Then you had the rogues who could sneak and it was a real gamble to sneak into a faction city you weren't liked in.
2) Skills were unique - not everyone could teleport, not everyone could make you run fast, not everyone could revive and so on down the line. games these days seem to deem this kind of thing "unfair" and make these skills that everyone can have with just a different animation per character. I can't stand classless system games that homogenize the entire experience. It kills replay ability and it waters down the different experiences.
3) Death being feared - This is something that I think is a must in an MMO (heck any game) it will make your experience be something you need to weigh out risk vrs reward. These days in MMOs I jump into every fight and I just don't care if I die. There were times in EQ that I literally had to just say no to someone because the rewards I would have had weren't worth the risks of the party formed. Think I am making this up? Do a test yourself, get a new to you single player game tell yourself you are going to play it for three lives and that is it. Have someone look at your game play. Then turn on god mode and see how you play then. Different huh?
4) Travel system - The original EQ had no instant travels, no mini-map, heck even the compass was based on a typed in command that MAY or may not work. These days they have little pointers and indicators and maps to the point that if you don't know where next then you are very special needs indeed.
5) Quests could be failed - I loved it that if you gave the quest giver the wrong things you could fail the quest. These days they don't take things unless they should have it. I say allow the quest giver to be given ANYTHING and if you give them the wrong thing too bad. Lifelike and not dumbed down.
What could they do to make a GOOD EQ? Just a few simple steps
A) Copy old EQ (pre Shadows of Luclin) and update graphics.
C) Kill the zones and make it seamless except for things like the planes and dungeon zones.
D) Make it living world - It would be great if they made cities need to be defended, make it so the vendors need resupply, and even have cities grow and fall due to wars and participation.
E) Add in housing - this was the one thing I missed in the original EQ. I don't care if its instanced or world based, I just like my own little area to modify
This to me the above idea would be a GREAT game. I stopped playing at Shadows of Luclin because I saw how the Devs were headed to the way MMOs are now being made these days. I am saddened by the "dumbing down" of MMOs as well as things being developed mainly for the extra cash income. If you notice the time I stopped playing a majority of the time spent on MMOs is about the time DLC came into being and this spelled the downfall to most MMOs going forward. The mentality of MMO development since DLCs came into play has severely declined because of the developers have wanted to do what they can to make the money rather than adding to the game because of player requests and story arc additions.
EQN, as it's been explained, has all of the things you listed other than being a carbon copy of EQ. Of course that may be enough not to like EQN but that was the thought behind this thread, with how different they are designing the game what features will illicit the same feelings.
I don't see them saying they are "concerned" for EQ fans. They've actually said that if you like EQ/EQ2, they will continue to exist and be supported. Basically, "If you prefer those games, play them." This idea that EQ fans are some how entitled or deserve to be the main target for EQN or any future SOE game seems off. I'm an EQ fan, your an EQ fan, yet we do not see eye to eye. They are making a game with potential to be fun if you allow it. If you have to have XYZ like EQ, then no it will not be for you. While I don't believe they went the dart route, I bet they sat around and went "okay, what has worked, what hasn't, what is, where is the market going, what are players playing?" EQ isn't really the answer to any of those questions. They are a business and there are a huge number of potential customers. Going after a niche market (hardcore early EQ fans) is not a wise move.
Ding ding ding.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
As of now, I view EQN as becoming exactly what you listed at the bottom. While obviously subjective on what is "good", there is no reason EQN can't be a RPG, vast open world, social, deep character progression, trades, crafting, economy, unbalanced PVP, etc. Some particular mechanics (action combat, no trinity, no tab) might not be to your liking, but they are never going to hit every bullet point on our wish list. Although I find it strange you basically want a lazy mechanic because paying attention is too much hassle. Having to move around and be active doesn't seem too much more intense then having to memorize 50 buttons. Either one, if you doze off, probably going to get smacked down.
We all have to weigh the options and decide if we can deal with X if Y looks good. Is having to pay attention to combat a good trade off if they provide a high quality world to play in? Answer might be no, but until we give it a go, I think it is a bit early to write anything off.
I used to enjoy point and click games, now I can't stand them. Used to like tab targeting, now prefer action. Games, trends, people change, for better or worse. If you can't/won't adapt and accept what is available, only one missing out is you.
EQN isn't the answer to my mmorpg prayers, but it comes close from what they've presented. When it comes down to it, if I want to play one of these games, basically have to decide which offers the most pros vs cons. Currently none have enough pros to be worth playing for me. EQN could follow this or be as good as I hope.
I'm sorry bro, but you 100% are deluding yourself if you think anything about EQN will be anything like EQ with the sole exception of the lore and the world, both of which, btw, have been heavily altered to fit their new disneyquest direction. Firiona Vie with a bow?, seriously, just, wtf.
This game is basically pissing all over everything that EQ was and represented in the MMO world.
While i care, i don't care too much, because im not any worse off when this frankenstein comes out then i was before. The MMO genre is dead IMO and EQN aint gonna be the one that resurrects it.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Other than a lot of great stuff already mentioned.. it was the feeling you had when you were in Norrath. Not playing a game, but being in another world.
But to list a few things:
From the beginning on the game was a bare frame that allowed you to live and progress in the world, without slick interfaces, smooth systems or hardly any form of convenience. You had to make do with the basics that were handed to you.
Quest? Actually TALK to npc's, not right click and accept. No, start a conversation to find out what you can help them with. Of course the keyword system was still a system, but it engaged you into the situation so much more than "click, accept, check map where objectives appear and go do them".
Want a PvP tournament? Don't join the arena system, players organise them in the Freeport arena.
Traveling was exploring: the world wasn't easily traversed. One of the reasons why I can bide my time with Archeage now is I enjoy the "handicapped" travel for trade runs. No teleports, actual travel. Back in old EQ days me and my lowbie friend (lvl 10-12 both) planned on moving away from our starting city (where I met this friend) Qeynos and set up base in Freeport. We planned the journey, had to specifically think of not traveling through certain zones in night time, etc.
Things to do: I had a high level druid friend that let me hang out with him whilst he hunted giants...GIANTS! I was struck with awe the first time I saw him down one.
Social/economy: I was invited to a guild, the brotherhood of the arcane fist, and was gifted an ice crystal staff when I joined. This magical item accompanied me from level 5 to level 12, until I started my trading empire. At first I felt guilty for selling the ice crystal staff, but it gave me my "starting capital" with which I started to buy cheap, in order to sell for more. At level 12 I had several hundreds of platinum, which was an enormous amount at the time, outriching many level 60s.
Small things: hunting wisps for lightstones, exploring blackburrow only to find a giant snake at the bottom of a pit, waiting for a ship to another continent and engaging into a conversation with a random player also waiting, falling into the ocean but swimming to an island only to find cyclopses on there. Accidentally giving my earth elemental a 60pp weapon in stead of the cheap one of a few silver I just bought.
Things mattered: death was a serious penalty.
The fact you had to either find things out for yourself or ask other players. Although in this time with internet being as big as it is, it probably wouldn't take long for pretty much everything to be on the internet.
Long story short: EQ was about what you wanted to do, not what the game told you to do. It took me three months to get my character up to level 16, because I wasn't focused on leveling. I was living and breathing the world that was Norrath, and I played every second I could.
If you want to make an MMORPG that lives up to EQ, stop making a game. Create a world. And add as few tools as possible that allow players to progress and experience the world. Do not take players on a leash. Do not give players directions.
Let me guess, you love the grind, vertical power stacking treadmills, needing to work er I mean play 40+ hours a week to be "the best", getting kicked in the face for any mistakes (death, race/class/god choice), sitting in the same spot for hours/days for an item, lots of down/travel time where you can type all your communications with others, having to pick one role forever or have to restart from scratch? I'm sure there is more, but I'm curious as what else you think EQN or any game should have to stay true to EQ, beyond of course the lore and world.
I get being a fan and what not, but EQ hit its prime in what 4 years maybe? The 11 since have been treading water. Was a good game that catered to those of us that enjoyed fantasy, gaming, actually knew how to get on the internet, and had way too much free time but we are not the majority anymore, not even a minority really.
I personally enjoyed the pace of EQ. I liked having time to talk while in a group. I liked spending time leveling up and not zooming through content. I like the idea of going to a camp or area of a dungeon and hunting there for awhile.
EQN looks like its going to be go go go action AOE combat and when combat is like that I expect progression to be fairly quick. I dont foresee EQN having anything in common with EQ other than lore and land.
I loved that each race had their own starting city, and each class had their special place in that city. I loved the sounds in EQ, when you where in a forest it felt like you where in a forest. I loved being kos to the goddie factions, made traveling more fun and so on and so on:)
Something tells me in EQN everybody will be plunked down in one place with no ties to ones city, but I could be wrong. I don't know what to think anymore and it is to early for this game.
Not entirely, but thank you for putting words into my mouth and perpetuating some BS stereotype of old school gamers.
What i loved about EQ was:
1. Art Style. Semi serious but still high fantasy. Not disney/wow with huge shoulders and double jumping, and parkour running all over the place as show in the EQN video.
2. Difficulty of play. By difficulty i mean, mobs were hard, dungeons were unforgiving. A large portion of content required multiple people working together to get through. You had to actually pay attention to what you were doing and when. Counter that to something like GW2 where you can basically mash whatever button you want and still be very succesful.
3. Clearly defined classes and roles. In EQ you needed someone to crowd control, you needed someone to tank, you needed someone to heal, you needed someone to do DPS. This made people's characters have an identity. While you were bad at many things, generally you were very good at 1 or 2 specific things. In EQN your character is basically meaningless as you can change on the fly your role, you have NO identity, whatsoever. The only difference between you and any other person is whether you're a goofy looking lion, a human, or whatever.
4. Factions meant something. If you were a high elf paladin, and you tried to walk into an area dominated by Dark Elves, you better be prepared to get stomped into the ground. But, maybe you were a sadist, and you wanted to kill a bunch of mobs that the DE's hated so you could gain enough faction with them that they wouldnt kill you on site. This was an option. While EQN *may* have something like this, they've already stated that no race will be KoS to another race. Once again, this removes character identity.
There are many other things, but im not going to list the more minute stuff.
If im being honest, what irks me the most about the game is the art direction, both the style of the game, and the way the game plays. If you watch the videos everyone runs stupid fast, things like cliff faces and hill and such are not even in the realm of obstacles to traverse, you just do some lame parkour slide or hop. The double jumping was especially stupid. No effing idea why they would put that in the game.
For it to be an EQ game i think it needs 3 things:
1. Art direction consistent with the franchise, but modernized in terms of graphics, poly count, textures, etc.
2. Clearly defined classes with their own specific abilities. Characters should have identity.
3. Large world with a functioning meaningful faction system. And i don't just mean NPC vs PC. This world should also have multiple starting areas and each race should have its own city. I know this is a huge investment in terms of development, but having 1 or 2 cities for good and evil races etc completely detracts from the feeling of a world.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Sadly, there will never be another EQ. Actually knowing where you were due to the long hikes to get to your grinding zone of choice. A couple of my faves were Hill Giant Fort and of course the ramp in OT. In most MMOs I play support classes, and EQ had the best. Roles that actually made you feel you were doing your part to help your party kick ass. *cgh* BARDS *cgh*
It used to mean something when you had to go get a certain named mob. Sometimes waiting for days to get the dude to spawn, just to have someone run in last minute and take the kill. But when you finally got the kill and the loot (damn monk paws),! The feeling of reward was something that is still unmatched in todays games.
And possibly one of my favorite things to do in EQ was sit near the bank casting temp and the like for fat stacks of plat!
Money for your spells!
Some may look at these things and see them as negatives, such as the rare mobhunting. But to me it is the very thing that is missing today and made EQ what it was, the reason people will continue to speak of it in such reverence.
I'd still play if the graphics weren't so dated.
hah, I like how some people pine for the supposed group conversation of EQ1. I'm guessing these people played support classes or 'dps' classes. As a puller and tank, I never had time to chat with group mates. But the Wizard, et al, sure did. Sit on his butt until he fires off his one nuke per pull.
Having said that, I did enjoy my time in EQ, but it did need improvement. It was new, and unique so of course everything was fun. But I won't get into the deficits here.
What I enjoyed was the real choices you had, even to the point of self-gimping. I know some are not fans of this, but it did allow you to sort of determine your own level of difficulty and pain tolerance. You could play an Erudite Paladin (perhaps worst class/race combination in the game), and then make a name for yourself at high level because you were unique. Or play around with factions so that you could get places were others couldn't. I had a 10th Dark Elf warrior who could roam around the frost giant keep (~50lvl) pretty much a leasure because he was of the correct religion/faction. I had a low level Bard who did the same thing in the high level Dragon areas.
I also enjoyed dynamic world systems like Kithcor Forest, if I'm remembering right? During the day, generally peaceful and safe for low levels. At night, high level undead would spawn and be deadly to even high level characters. I absolutely loved this. Then there was the high level mobs that might randomly spawn and wander around low level areas, injecting a bit of chaos into routine. That was smart design.
Also, I did enjoy many of the hidden quests that took a lot of puzzling out to finish. And then if you were absolutely stumped, you could 'cheat' and look online. Not a huge fan of modern quests being so easy.
I mentioned faction as being fun, but I also enjoyed the language system that was part of it. It was sort of a hachnyed system, and seemed incomplete, but learning obscure languages so that one could talk with rare creatures had a lot of potential.
These are the main elements I'd import to any modern MMO.
I get where you are coming from and it is unfortunate that SOE has gone in a different direction in these key areas, but they are a business and the millions of customers out there need to be catered to. While things like art are subjective, difficulty and how classes/roles function aren't too hard to do for EQN. No reason to assume that someone can't only play one class and be really good at it compared to those flip flopping all over the place. We don't know how combat itself will work, but hopefully it isn't a mindless DPS race like so many other games.
I think you'll be missing out if you pass on EQN, but we all make our own choices. I'm willing to give it a go as I have done over the years for all the various games that have come out. Personally, a game having 1 or 20 starting areas isn't worth passing on if it turns out to be a quality experience overall. They are trying something new and I support it as the old ways of doing it has left the genre with a lot of meh products and me unsatisfied.
Looking at the genre, it appears several games are going the same route as EQN and it just the way it is. Action combat, horizontal gameplay, and unrestricted character development appear to be the future. Making players decide on day one what they'll be doing 5 years down the line seems to be dead. I still hope to find plenty of challenge, need for others, and choices to matter. I'm willing to take a hit in the art department for that. As I hate having to juggle alts and redo content if I even want to see if I might want to play something else, the class swapping is something I really look forward to.
You seem to have some fundamental issues with EQN and where the genre is heading. It is too bad, but we all find ourselves at points where we either stop and go down another path or keep on. I'm keeping on until it is no longer fun.
Edit:
I also wanted to mention, at no point have i ever seen one of the developers or people talking about EQN, who have gone "man, we did this to the game, or we're gonna do that, because its just cool!"
Its always been "well, our research indicates X, and we did Y because of this trend in the industry".
I just don't get the impression its a team of people who are making a game they're excited about. I get the impressions its a project they've been assigned to, and they're just checking boxes off the list of "features that need to be in a modern MMO"
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
This seems to explain all of the other comments that you had above, which I read all of it. I'm curious as to what material you're referring to in your opinion of their motivations.
I've seen quite the opposite on many occasions so I'm interested.