To me the issue is the fixed/panning camera. Almost always looks terrible regardless of the game. We don't play in those views so it instantly looks unnatural and off. When in player POV, what we see of ourselves and others is completely different. The Landmark Keynote shows combat from the player POV with UI and it looks normal and very good. Everything is smoother. Assuming companies go for the fixed camera because it is like watching a movie or something, but it doesn't really work with video game animations. All we see are models sliding around.
For those in shock or whatever that the game is action combat oriented, don't know what to say beyond you either like it or you don't. They've made it clear from the start. Has a lot in common with other recent games and reminds me of the MOBA Smite quite a lot, which is good to me. If people can't handle having to aim and be active, plenty of games to stand still and hit tab 12345 at a meat sack. Neither is better, but action is the future and allows for a lot more possibilities.
The combo system (freezing rock and then smashing through it) looks great and I hope only goes up from here. Really what I was hoping for to make team work matter and not just DPS spamming. I'm sure they'll have a lot of feedback through Landmark on timing and how combat speed should work as far as damage being dealt, players moving around, encounter length etc. Looks pretty fast currently, but with a whole set of skills available, it might be more then who can burn down the other fastest.
Reading some of your comments, it is obvious that no matter what SOE or any company really does, unless it is tailored to specific XYZ requirements, no game will ever match up. No game will be EQ99 transported to today or whatever other mythical creation. Call it cash grab, kid games, console generation, whatever, but some people need to realize that they might not be the target audience anymore and probably don't make up the majority of gamers. These games are played by millions upon millions of people of various backgrounds and styles. Not the small crowd from late 90s, early 00s.
I'm glad I've adapted, just wish more games actually had some depth. SOE seems to be making that a possibility with the total package. If you hate the visual design or having to aim or whatever other random thing, it is what it is. Move on. Which I'm sure most will do in a day or week just like after last SOE Live.
The game is not even in alpha yet but people are judging it by this video like it's coming out tomorrow. And thank god it's action combat. Maybe I won't fall asleep in the middle of a fight like in AA. I'm 39 years old and tab target/sandwich combat doesn't do it for me anymore. And for those of you who don't know what sandwich combat is, it's when you fight something by pressing tab to target it and then buttons 12345 with one hand and eat a sandwich with the other.
Wow. I was soooo excited for EQN but now I have no idea what to say.
Possibly switching EQN to the same setup as Landmark.. was a bad idea. The style , voxels , action combat . etc feels at home in Landmark .. In EQN I feel it could be holding the game back. Go launch Planetside 2 and then Landmark.. I would rather be running around an EQN that looked like PS2 than Landmark.
I feel the same way.
HOWEVER
the tradeoff for destrucible world (voxel farm on top of Forgelight engine) - is that the game looks FUGLY (my opinion).
PS2 looks fine to me.
I run around in Landmark - and it's just blotchy blobby poop - that's what things look like (especially in distance) - like globs of putty.
EQNext as the game touted to "revolutionize the genre" - umm... no.
It is a revolution in just about every single way, and the only argument you pose against this fact is that the non-optimized pre-alpha rendering of terrain at a distance is lacking polish. Great argument. You sold it.
Originally posted by shamall The game is not even in alpha yet but people are judging it by this video like it's coming out tomorrow. And thank god it's action combat. Maybe I won't fall asleep in the middle of a fight like in AA. I'm 39 years old and tab target/sandwich combat doesn't do it for me anymore. And for those of you who don't know what sandwich combat is, it's when you fight something by pressing tab to target it and then buttons 12345 with one hand and eat a sandwich with the other.
While I personally prefer action combat like yourself, I think we should try to be a bit more understanding of the mechanics and what they achieve or fail to achieve through their integration.
Tab target systems take the emphasis off of the actual combat on screen and puts more focus onto skill rotation. A tab target system allows for players to have large and complex hotbars. It makes combat less about the actual characters on screen and more about how to use your massive amount of skills in the best possible way to optimize your combat effectiveness and reduce your enemy's effectiveness.
So I wouldn't say that either style is inferior to the other given that both systems being compared are designed well. One just lends itself to a bit slower, more strategic and analytical combat while the other is more about reflexes, accuracy and timing on top of skill knowledge and execution.
I also wouldn't say that tab target is "dead" or that people who don't like action combat need to "get used to it or gtfo". There will probably always be a mix of tab target based MMORPGs as well as a slew of action based ones. ArcheAge for example is a brand new MMO that keeps with the very traditional tab target style. GW2 proved that some games could even mix the two into a sort of hybrid that might appeal to some tab target fans.
Tab target isn't going away, it's just not the only game in town any more. No need to get pissy.
I watched the video and it looks like the same action combat we get with GW2 and Diablo 3.. I don't see twitch action combat being all that popular.. And I saw no "real" roles being played.. The cleric was just another combat class that has buffing side effects to their skills. It also scares the hell out of me thinking about the graphic stress systems will have when you get large groups together.. What we saw in video was often 1 or maybe 2 actions as a time.. Wait till you get 6 and more, or a PvP battle with 10-20 in the same area.. OMFGGGGGG my video card will explode trying to draw all the AOE bs.. Seriously people.. IGNORE the eye candy graphics and just look at the meat of the game.. Is it still impressive? I don't think so..
If by meat of the game you mean meat of the combat I did like it. Granted, I do hope they introduce a chain skill system to expand the 8 abilities out but the way the abilities change the environment was impressive. The Elementalist's skill turning the ground into snow and opening those within it to be frozen with another spell was pretty good. There is good tech involved in the process.
If meat of the game includes world feel, crafting, event flow, etc. that has only been theorized bit what has been explained is very interesting. The player book, Rhosong I think, hinting at places to go but no ! ? seems great.
Originally posted by Rydeson I watched the video and it looks like the same action combat we get with GW2 and Diablo 3.. I don't see twitch action combat being all that popular.. And I saw no "real" roles being played.. The cleric was just another combat class that has buffing side effects to their skills. It also scares the hell out of me thinking about the graphic stress systems will have when you get large groups together.. What we saw in video was often 1 or maybe 2 actions as a time.. Wait till you get 6 and more, or a PvP battle with 10-20 in the same area.. OMFGGGGGG my video card will explode trying to draw all the AOE bs.. Seriously people.. IGNORE the eye candy graphics and just look at the meat of the game.. Is it still impressive? I don't think so..
I personally thought it looked really good. One thing I like about their design is that it's not just a limited hotbar for sake of balance/action combat, but it seems to reward a lot of skill as well as making each skill both impressive to look at and important to use correctly.
Large hot bar tab target games suffer from players being given a huge amount unimpressive small skills. It makes your character feel weak and non-heroic.
They also clearly demonstrated that aiming your skills, as well as avoiding skills is going to play a huge part in combat. Paying attention the fight and using the right skills at the right time is going to have a huge pay off.
As for your PC, I would guess that, yes, EQN will probably require a decent PC to run well. Something in the mid range built this year or a high end built a year or 2 ago would probably handle the game just fine even in large situations. Remember, PS2 is a great looking title and you can have a massive amount of players on screen with near zero fps drops or hitching.
EQN is different, especially with the destructible environments, but it shouldn't have unreasonable system requirements.
I also liked that they are allowing the cleric to support the group by participating in the fight. They also showed in one of the clips the cleric just hanging back slinging heals. I'd guess that the cleric since it wears heavy armor and wields a shield it's being designed as a sort of hybrid/combat healer type for EQN. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ranged/mage healer type that is more support/heal oriented and there's also the very real possibility that you could completely change the way the cleric players, via swapping to different weapons, armor and off-hand skills from the multiclass pool.
Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Maybe they plan to release it on mobile phones LOL... It seems like they are going backwards in time.
Exactly this. I don't feel that the current developers on the project have the Vision™ of EverQuest at all.
Time to continue having fun in EverQuest (again) and eventually say goodbye to my beloved Norrath in favor of some future project which is a true successor to the EQ franchise.. With a different company, universe and lore. /shrug
I'm sorry, but Tech Demo, or not, that was just terrible. They could've put more effort into it, especially since it's debuting for SOE Live, where everyone is going to be watching, including the press. They've had the time to polish everything up, including the animations, models, sound effects, spell effects, etc. It seems like they put this together in a couple week's timeframe. What were they thinking?
I'm not understanding the GW2 and Tera comparisons either, since there's no way to tell how the skills will function without seeing a UI, cooldown timers, stats, etc. This looks nothing like Tera's combat though. That's pretty obvious, since i didn't see any animation locks, or "hack n' slash" combat which is popular in asian MMOs.
SOE said they are ~60% done with EQN, so my guess it will be at least another 1.5-2 years until they are done with the game. Combat looks little to flashy right now. The only thing you notice during combat is all effects and not the characters or their equipment. They should tone down the effects and tweak the ugly bright color (to much strong yellow color is used). Maybe it was just to show the graphical engine. I hope so at least. I also saw in SOE live that ability duration was like 3 seconds... and I who have complained about WoW short duration (8 to 10 second duration). 8O Maybe it's get better when you actually play the game... I really hope so at least. Right now it feels pointless to cast an ability which last 3 seconds.
I'm sorry, but Tech Demo, or not, that was just terrible. They could've put more effort into it, especially since it's debuting for SOE Live, where everyone is going to be watching, including the press. They've had the time to polish everything up, including the animations, models, sound effects, spell effects, etc. It seems like they put this together in a couple week's timeframe. What were they thinking?
I'm not understanding the GW2 and Tera comparisons either, since there's no way to tell how the skills will function without seeing a UI, cooldown timers, stats, etc. This looks nothing like Tera's combat though. That's pretty obvious, since i didn't see any animation locks, or "hack n' slash" combat which is popular in asian MMOs.
They did put it together in 2 weeks lol, they are busy developing 2 games. I was there (via twitter and twitchtv) when they said they were preparing. I must say, we didnt expect this, SOE Live is a fan faire its meant for people who play SOE games, they revealed it to US not you. Why would they try to impress you if its not coming out for another 2-3 years? Ill leave you with this thought. "The gaming industry is hopeless"... now go back to WoW!
"Actually, i thought it looked kick ass lol, Not sure what these picky snobs are complaining about, need to get over themselves. For this stage of the game it looks awesome, Cant wait to see whats next"
Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Maybe they plan to release it on mobile phones LOL... It seems like they are going backwards in time.
Exactly this. I don't feel that the current developers on the project have the Vision™ of EverQuest at all.
Time to continue having fun in EverQuest (again) and eventually say goodbye to my beloved Norrath in favor of some future project which is a true successor to the EQ franchise.. With a different company, universe and lore. /shrug
I dont know why people want to play the same game for 10 years. Nothing changes in the world. With EQNext it will. Permanent change and creating your own adventure will satisfy. THe longest ive played an mmo subscription is the original Everquest for 8 months at launch, every other mmo i stopped after 3 months due to max level or nothing to do but grind equipment, and i played them all, rift, wow, eq2, vanguard, ff a realm reborn, etc. Sandbox is the future and thats what EQN is.
Man, this video has only managed 2,300 views. Is there another Youtube video out there that people are watching instead? Or has the hype died down that much since last year?
Originally posted by amx23 I dont know why people want to play the same game for 10 years. Nothing changes in the world. With EQNext it will. Permanent change and creating your own adventure will satisfy. THe longest ive played an mmo subscription is the original Everquest for 8 months at launch, every other mmo i stopped after 3 months due to max level or nothing to do but grind equipment, and i played them all, rift, wow, eq2, vanguard, ff a realm reborn, etc. Sandbox is the future and thats what EQN is.
If you've been playing for that long then you know the "sandbox is the future" argument has been around for a long while now. I seriously doubt it. But you are correct about one thing, SOE is making EQN a sandbox alright, and apparently targeting the players that are at the correct age to enjoy playing in a real sandbox and still need their poo poo diapers changed regularly.
Ok, ok. Maybe not quite that young, but if I were the program manager for EQN, there is no way that video would have ever seen the light of day. I had serious reservations about this title after seeing the character models that are more cartoony than WoW, but this looks very, very bad to me. I am not looking forward to this anymore and can't imagine playing it with the direction it is going in.
Originally posted by amx23 I dont know why people want to play the same game for 10 years. Nothing changes in the world. With EQNext it will. Permanent change and creating your own adventure will satisfy. THe longest ive played an mmo subscription is the original Everquest for 8 months at launch, every other mmo i stopped after 3 months due to max level or nothing to do but grind equipment, and i played them all, rift, wow, eq2, vanguard, ff a realm reborn, etc. Sandbox is the future and thats what EQN is.
If you've been playing for that long then you know the "sandbox is the future" argument has been around for a long while now. I seriously doubt it. But you are correct about one thing, SOE is making EQN a sandbox alright, and apparently targeting the players that are at the correct age to enjoy playing in a real sandbox and still need their poo poo diapers changed regularly.
Ok, ok. Maybe not quite that young, but if I were the program manager for EQN, there is no way that video would have ever seen the light of day. I had serious reservations about this title after seeing the character models that are more cartoony than WoW, but this looks very, very bad to me. I am not looking forward to this anymore and can't imagine playing it with the direction it is going in.
Except it doesn't matter one bit whether you have 'serious reservations'. They aren't trying to sell you anything. The game is a long way off. This video was for fans and no one else.
Originally posted by amx23 I dont know why people want to play the same game for 10 years. Nothing changes in the world. With EQNext it will. Permanent change and creating your own adventure will satisfy. THe longest ive played an mmo subscription is the original Everquest for 8 months at launch, every other mmo i stopped after 3 months due to max level or nothing to do but grind equipment, and i played them all, rift, wow, eq2, vanguard, ff a realm reborn, etc. Sandbox is the future and thats what EQN is.
If you've been playing for that long then you know the "sandbox is the future" argument has been around for a long while now. I seriously doubt it. But you are correct about one thing, SOE is making EQN a sandbox alright, and apparently targeting the players that are at the correct age to enjoy playing in a real sandbox and still need their poo poo diapers changed regularly.
Ok, ok. Maybe not quite that young, but if I were the program manager for EQN, there is no way that video would have ever seen the light of day. I had serious reservations about this title after seeing the character models that are more cartoony than WoW, but this looks very, very bad to me. I am not looking forward to this anymore and can't imagine playing it with the direction it is going in.
Except it doesn't matter one bit whether you have 'serious reservations'. They aren't trying to sell you anything. The game is a long way off. This video was for fans and no one else.
Bullshit. SOE made this video for anyone they can get to watch. They'll take all the potential customers they can get.
Those sword flashes and cratering moves by the warrior class are terrible. They went off the deep end into a superhero/fighting game set in a fantasy world. Wow EQNext looks like it will super suck.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Comments
To me the issue is the fixed/panning camera. Almost always looks terrible regardless of the game. We don't play in those views so it instantly looks unnatural and off. When in player POV, what we see of ourselves and others is completely different. The Landmark Keynote shows combat from the player POV with UI and it looks normal and very good. Everything is smoother. Assuming companies go for the fixed camera because it is like watching a movie or something, but it doesn't really work with video game animations. All we see are models sliding around.
For those in shock or whatever that the game is action combat oriented, don't know what to say beyond you either like it or you don't. They've made it clear from the start. Has a lot in common with other recent games and reminds me of the MOBA Smite quite a lot, which is good to me. If people can't handle having to aim and be active, plenty of games to stand still and hit tab 12345 at a meat sack. Neither is better, but action is the future and allows for a lot more possibilities.
The combo system (freezing rock and then smashing through it) looks great and I hope only goes up from here. Really what I was hoping for to make team work matter and not just DPS spamming. I'm sure they'll have a lot of feedback through Landmark on timing and how combat speed should work as far as damage being dealt, players moving around, encounter length etc. Looks pretty fast currently, but with a whole set of skills available, it might be more then who can burn down the other fastest.
Reading some of your comments, it is obvious that no matter what SOE or any company really does, unless it is tailored to specific XYZ requirements, no game will ever match up. No game will be EQ99 transported to today or whatever other mythical creation. Call it cash grab, kid games, console generation, whatever, but some people need to realize that they might not be the target audience anymore and probably don't make up the majority of gamers. These games are played by millions upon millions of people of various backgrounds and styles. Not the small crowd from late 90s, early 00s.
I'm glad I've adapted, just wish more games actually had some depth. SOE seems to be making that a possibility with the total package. If you hate the visual design or having to aim or whatever other random thing, it is what it is. Move on. Which I'm sure most will do in a day or week just like after last SOE Live.
Well... they have 2 years to make improvements! This has to be pre-pre-alpha.
And for those of you who don't know what sandwich combat is, it's when you fight something by pressing tab to target it and then buttons 12345 with one hand and eat a sandwich with the other.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
It is a revolution in just about every single way, and the only argument you pose against this fact is that the non-optimized pre-alpha rendering of terrain at a distance is lacking polish. Great argument. You sold it.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
While I personally prefer action combat like yourself, I think we should try to be a bit more understanding of the mechanics and what they achieve or fail to achieve through their integration.
Tab target systems take the emphasis off of the actual combat on screen and puts more focus onto skill rotation. A tab target system allows for players to have large and complex hotbars. It makes combat less about the actual characters on screen and more about how to use your massive amount of skills in the best possible way to optimize your combat effectiveness and reduce your enemy's effectiveness.
So I wouldn't say that either style is inferior to the other given that both systems being compared are designed well. One just lends itself to a bit slower, more strategic and analytical combat while the other is more about reflexes, accuracy and timing on top of skill knowledge and execution.
I also wouldn't say that tab target is "dead" or that people who don't like action combat need to "get used to it or gtfo". There will probably always be a mix of tab target based MMORPGs as well as a slew of action based ones. ArcheAge for example is a brand new MMO that keeps with the very traditional tab target style. GW2 proved that some games could even mix the two into a sort of hybrid that might appeal to some tab target fans.
Tab target isn't going away, it's just not the only game in town any more. No need to get pissy.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
If meat of the game includes world feel, crafting, event flow, etc. that has only been theorized bit what has been explained is very interesting. The player book, Rhosong I think, hinting at places to go but no ! ? seems great.
I personally thought it looked really good. One thing I like about their design is that it's not just a limited hotbar for sake of balance/action combat, but it seems to reward a lot of skill as well as making each skill both impressive to look at and important to use correctly.
Large hot bar tab target games suffer from players being given a huge amount unimpressive small skills. It makes your character feel weak and non-heroic.
They also clearly demonstrated that aiming your skills, as well as avoiding skills is going to play a huge part in combat. Paying attention the fight and using the right skills at the right time is going to have a huge pay off.
As for your PC, I would guess that, yes, EQN will probably require a decent PC to run well. Something in the mid range built this year or a high end built a year or 2 ago would probably handle the game just fine even in large situations. Remember, PS2 is a great looking title and you can have a massive amount of players on screen with near zero fps drops or hitching.
EQN is different, especially with the destructible environments, but it shouldn't have unreasonable system requirements.
I also liked that they are allowing the cleric to support the group by participating in the fight. They also showed in one of the clips the cleric just hanging back slinging heals. I'd guess that the cleric since it wears heavy armor and wields a shield it's being designed as a sort of hybrid/combat healer type for EQN. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ranged/mage healer type that is more support/heal oriented and there's also the very real possibility that you could completely change the way the cleric players, via swapping to different weapons, armor and off-hand skills from the multiclass pool.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Exactly this. I don't feel that the current developers on the project have the Vision™ of EverQuest at all.
Time to continue having fun in EverQuest (again) and eventually say goodbye to my beloved Norrath in favor of some future project which is a true successor to the EQ franchise.. With a different company, universe and lore. /shrug
I'm sorry, but Tech Demo, or not, that was just terrible. They could've put more effort into it, especially since it's debuting for SOE Live, where everyone is going to be watching, including the press. They've had the time to polish everything up, including the animations, models, sound effects, spell effects, etc. It seems like they put this together in a couple week's timeframe. What were they thinking?
I'm not understanding the GW2 and Tera comparisons either, since there's no way to tell how the skills will function without seeing a UI, cooldown timers, stats, etc. This looks nothing like Tera's combat though. That's pretty obvious, since i didn't see any animation locks, or "hack n' slash" combat which is popular in asian MMOs.
However I really hope they know what they are doing, but I am dubious.
I think they can start tweaking the appearance of Kerran as many are unsatisfied with. It's stupid not to change the appearance for the better.
They did put it together in 2 weeks lol, they are busy developing 2 games. I was there (via twitter and twitchtv) when they said they were preparing. I must say, we didnt expect this, SOE Live is a fan faire its meant for people who play SOE games, they revealed it to US not you. Why would they try to impress you if its not coming out for another 2-3 years? Ill leave you with this thought. "The gaming industry is hopeless"... now go back to WoW!
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
What is the vision of EQ?
Children's game. Will be great for anyone prepubescent.
Guess Black Desert is my last hope.
kids game
If you've been playing for that long then you know the "sandbox is the future" argument has been around for a long while now. I seriously doubt it. But you are correct about one thing, SOE is making EQN a sandbox alright, and apparently targeting the players that are at the correct age to enjoy playing in a real sandbox and still need their poo poo diapers changed regularly.
Ok, ok. Maybe not quite that young, but if I were the program manager for EQN, there is no way that video would have ever seen the light of day. I had serious reservations about this title after seeing the character models that are more cartoony than WoW, but this looks very, very bad to me. I am not looking forward to this anymore and can't imagine playing it with the direction it is going in.
Except it doesn't matter one bit whether you have 'serious reservations'. They aren't trying to sell you anything. The game is a long way off. This video was for fans and no one else.
Bullshit. SOE made this video for anyone they can get to watch. They'll take all the potential customers they can get.