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Dragon Age: No enemy Level Scaling!!!

VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Member UncommonPosts: 804
in General Gaming

Oh rejoice.  No enemy level scaling in this game and no health regen (yay inventory management!)  

 

Thank goodness.  I was wondering if they were just going to get rid of stats all together in this game.

Comments

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    The fact they were even considering it just goes to show the level of hubris within the developer.

    They honestly believe their writing is so unutterably fantastically awesome that it will carry the entire game without traditional RPG elements like character progression.

    Can't wait for this game to come out and be completely unfantastic.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • sethman75sethman75 Member UncommonPosts: 212

    Great news. I despise level scaling.

    What is the point of beating the final boss with the best weapons in the game if you go outside and get killed by a rat?

    Scaling is the antithesis of the RPG

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    There are advantages to both systems. Scaling does give you far more replay value and it's not exactly realistic when at a certain point you become 100% immune to regular soldiers and weapons either. I would prefer a game like Skyrim to have at least some scaling for example.

    It isn't like the above post that you get killed by rats either in those games, the boss will always be much harder than the rat.

    But anyway, no scaling does make for a more meaningful progression and in a game like DA, I would indeed like that better.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • andre369andre369 Member UncommonPosts: 970
    Are we talking GW2 down scaling not being there/ one hit lower "level" mobs / or everything in the game is at the same power level to an degree and you only gain new types of attacks rather than power? 
  • bliss14bliss14 Member UncommonPosts: 595
    Scaling is what turned me off of Oblivion somewhat after playing Morrowind.  Just say no to scaling in single player rpg's!
  • jesslee099jesslee099 Member Posts: 7
    level scaling was in Dragon Age 2, right? I hated that.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    Originally posted by sethman75
    Scaling is the antithesis of the RPG
    Could not have said it better myself :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by bliss14
    Scaling is what turned me off of Oblivion somewhat after playing Morrowind.  Just say no to scaling in single player rpg's!

    The problem with this, is that it limits the ability to create an open world where you can go off and do anything, any time you want.

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    Personally I have always thought that level scaling was one of the best way developers can use to make an interesting and challenging game. It allows for a lot more freedom in play style and game design.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by bliss14
    Scaling is what turned me off of Oblivion somewhat after playing Morrowind.  Just say no to scaling in single player rpg's!
    The problem with this, is that it limits the ability to create an open world where you can go off and do anything, any time you want.
    Not really. A player can still go anywhere, without scaling. They just can not skip through the tulips with nary a care.

    What level scaling takes away is the possibility of failure. We all know that players HATE to fail, today :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • kartoolkartool Member UncommonPosts: 520
    Both should be optional. That way everyone is happy. 
  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 878
    Hmm, kind of interesting in this now... still going wait for player reviews though.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    as long as it is viable to fight in more dangerous areas then lack of enemy lvl scaling is ok. That way the world is not linear from point A to B and still have strong foes everywhere.




  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    as long as it is viable to fight in more dangerous areas then lack of enemy lvl scaling is ok. That way the world is not linear from point A to B and still have strong foes everywhere.
    I understand what you're saying and to some degree agree. Linear is never good, in my opinion. However, having specific places where a player can not go at level 1 (and survive) is not linear, to me, but realistic.

    I'm not going to climb Kilimanjaro until I get some training in mountain survival and climbing. I am not going to run at a bear in the woods until I know how to use the weapon I have in my hand.

    As a character grows, new areas should open up that reflect that progress. This is much different from what some are assuming, that a player is denied access to the area until level is attained. A player can still go anywhere they desire in the game. Some areas will be deadly, though. You can go there, but be prepared to die.

    Monster scaling takes away this feeling of progression and makes the whole world "the same level."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     

    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    as long as it is viable to fight in more dangerous areas then lack of enemy lvl scaling is ok. That way the world is not linear from point A to B and still have strong foes everywhere.
    I understand what you're saying and to some degree agree. Linear is never good, in my opinion. However, having specific places where a player can not go at level 1 (and survive) is not linear, to me, but realistic.

     

    I'm not going to climb Kilimanjaro until I get some training in mountain survival and climbing. I am not going to run at a bear in the woods until I know how to use the weapon I have in my hand.

    As a character grows, new areas should open up that reflect that progress. This is much different from what some are assuming, that a player is denied access to the area until level is attained. A player can still go anywhere they desire in the game. Some areas will be deadly, though. You can go there, but be prepared to die.

    Monster scaling takes away this feeling of progression and makes the whole world "the same level."

    I 100% agree with your thoughts on the matter, but I don't think removing scaling altogether can achieve that. There is no way to avoid linear games without some kind of scaling. It might be more of a combination of scaling or maybe some kind of limited range scaling. Meaning scaling will occurr but only within a predefined range so there is the ability to have the open world while maintaining areas and events a player is not ready to handle.

    The flip side is just as bad. In games where zones are governed by levels, you end up facing piss-ass trash mobs in higher zones that can kill you after you just graduated from an earlier zone by defeating it's boss. What does that say about the earlier boss when some random wolf is now tougher?

     

    Imagine if Skyrim had levels. Defeating that 1st dragon at level 5 or whatever it was only to have your ass handed to you by a level 10 skeever. I always hated that in my MMOs, at least in SPRPGs, they can change that.

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,373
    If the game has it or doesn't have it in a sense is irrelevant to me, because I have played good and bad games that had ti either way.  What I want is a good game that I can play and enjoy.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    as long as it is viable to fight in more dangerous areas then lack of enemy lvl scaling is ok. That way the world is not linear from point A to B and still have strong foes everywhere.
    I understand what you're saying and to some degree agree. Linear is never good, in my opinion. However, having specific places where a player can not go at level 1 (and survive) is not linear, to me, but realistic.

    I'm not going to climb Kilimanjaro until I get some training in mountain survival and climbing. I am not going to run at a bear in the woods until I know how to use the weapon I have in my hand.

    As a character grows, new areas should open up that reflect that progress. This is much different from what some are assuming, that a player is denied access to the area until level is attained. A player can still go anywhere they desire in the game. Some areas will be deadly, though. You can go there, but be prepared to die.

    Monster scaling takes away this feeling of progression and makes the whole world "the same level."

    I 100% agree with your thoughts on the matter, but I don't think removing scaling altogether can achieve that. There is no way to avoid linear games without some kind of scaling. It might be more of a combination of scaling or maybe some kind of limited range scaling. Meaning scaling will occurr but only within a predefined range so there is the ability to have the open world while maintaining areas and events a player is not ready to handle.

    The flip side is just as bad. In games where zones are governed by levels, you end up facing piss-ass trash mobs in higher zones that can kill you after you just graduated from an earlier zone by defeating it's boss. What does that say about the earlier boss when some random wolf is now tougher?

    Imagine if Skyrim had levels. Defeating that 1st dragon at level 5 or whatever it was only to have your ass handed to you by a level 10 skeever. I always hated that in my MMOs, at least in SPRPGs, they can change that.

    Excellent points. I guess my thoughts on scaling are that the tiers of mobs should scale, not the mobs themselves. Does that make sense? A Wolf should be a wolf should be a wolf, from start to finish.

    In Morrowind, as I traipsed across the land, at low levels, I ran across Rats, Kwama Foragers, Scribs, and such. As I leveled up, I saw Khaguti, Alits, atronauchs, and Cliff Racers (oh joy!). Near the top levels, Winged Twilights, Dremora Lords, and Golden Saints would appear across the landscape.

    There were still places I would die, like some caverns, Daedric Shrines, and tombs. This helped my character "feel" like he was getting better in the game. He'd get his ass handed to him in one place, gain a few levels, and then come back and kick some ass back.

    Tiers of mobs and their random appearance in the world are what I want to see scaling, not Rats and Wolves that are as tough at 1st level as 50th. Is that still considered level scaling?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    as long as it is viable to fight in more dangerous areas then lack of enemy lvl scaling is ok. That way the world is not linear from point A to B and still have strong foes everywhere.
    I understand what you're saying and to some degree agree. Linear is never good, in my opinion. However, having specific places where a player can not go at level 1 (and survive) is not linear, to me, but realistic.

     

    I'm not going to climb Kilimanjaro until I get some training in mountain survival and climbing. I am not going to run at a bear in the woods until I know how to use the weapon I have in my hand.

    As a character grows, new areas should open up that reflect that progress. This is much different from what some are assuming, that a player is denied access to the area until level is attained. A player can still go anywhere they desire in the game. Some areas will be deadly, though. You can go there, but be prepared to die.

    Monster scaling takes away this feeling of progression and makes the whole world "the same level."

    I 100% agree with your thoughts on the matter, but I don't think removing scaling altogether can achieve that. There is no way to avoid linear games without some kind of scaling. It might be more of a combination of scaling or maybe some kind of limited range scaling. Meaning scaling will occurr but only within a predefined range so there is the ability to have the open world while maintaining areas and events a player is not ready to handle.

     

    The flip side is just as bad. In games where zones are governed by levels, you end up facing piss-ass trash mobs in higher zones that can kill you after you just graduated from an earlier zone by defeating it's boss. What does that say about the earlier boss when some random wolf is now tougher?

    Imagine if Skyrim had levels. Defeating that 1st dragon at level 5 or whatever it was only to have your ass handed to you by a level 10 skeever. I always hated that in my MMOs, at least in SPRPGs, they can change that.

    Excellent points. I guess my thoughts on scaling are that the tiers of mobs should scale, not the mobs themselves. Does that make sense? A Wolf should be a wolf should be a wolf, from start to finish.

     

    In Morrowind, as I traipsed across the land, at low levels, I ran across Rats, Kwama Foragers, Scribs, and such. As I leveled up, I saw Khaguti, Alits, atronauchs, and Cliff Racers (oh joy!). Near the top levels, Winged Twilights, Dremora Lords, and Golden Saints would appear across the landscape.

    There were still places I would die, like some caverns, Daedric Shrines, and tombs. This helped my character "feel" like he was getting better in the game. He'd get his ass handed to him in one place, gain a few levels, and then come back and kick some ass back.

    Tiers of mobs and their random appearance in the world are what I want to see scaling, not Rats and Wolves that are as tough at 1st level as 50th. Is that still considered level scaling?

    I understand, now,  where you are coming from and I can't think of any reason that wouldn't work the way you describe so, yeah.

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