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Actual LP Use
vidiotking
Member Posts: 587
in ArcheAge
Seems to me one of the biggest misconceptions regarding AA is LP. Labor Points.
One needs them, badly. To farm, to craft, to open loot(this one MAY change), to get your gold out of the AH.
At early levels you MAY find yourself needing to manage your LP because you won't have it capped at 5k.
In later levels I don't think it will be an issue for MOST players. It has not been an issue for me at all.
I'm talking about patron's here, not F2P players.
I craft/farm about 4-6 hours a day and I never even come close to using 1/2 my LP.
So to all the players who have concerns regarding LP, don't.
Comments
The worst thing, for me, is the fact that you can't even use Quest Reward gear without using Labor Points to "open" them.
I made the mistake of trying out a very small bit of harvesting materials and crafting. As a new player, there went all my "Labor Points", and I couldn't open my new loot.
That they would tie Quest Rewards to Labor Points seems rather excessive to me. Ridiculous, in all honesty.
Maybe this has changed since I tried it during the first beta? I don't know. I just know that left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
/agree !
LP to open loot/quest rewards is lame.... I think some one went a little too far. I blame the Kool-Aid.
Some posts by players claim that TRION is trying to change this, but I have not been able to confirm.
So what you are saying is that if you are paying for the game or a long time player of the game the LP system is fine, but if you are just starting the game and trying it out to make an impression towards which you will decide if the game is worth continuing playing the LP system will annoy you enough to make you decide to play another game?
It is why I stopped playing Age of Wushu.
This is true, if you BUY into the Founders Pack (for Alpha/Beta - or sub when game releases). If you go F2P - it is not. Please be clear on this - it is 3K max (I have been corrected on this) for F2P and only get 5LP/5min for being online. You get double the LP for Founders/Sub - and you get offline LP which you don't get with the F2P. That is a huge difference - minimum 50% difference. Do not say that your experience means no one will have trouble with the LP system - I did.
I played the game to lvl 22 - I was always wanting LP and needing LP. At lvl 20 a quest to make armor needed 600 LP - I had 10 - needed to be online 10 hours just to make the armor and that is kind of ridiculous. No I don't want to sub and no don't want to buy into an alpha/beta of a game (I think that is asking fro trouble - in case the game crashes before coming out). That is why I am calling this game a P2W game. To have such a difference in a basic element of the game is staggering - I hope no other game goes that way.
TERA, which has the exact same SUB/CS system, is not the same way. I can play to my heart's content and be competitive against sub players (they get pretty armor and different mounts, etc.). It is not the same with AA. I literally would have to throw money at the game, just like all the other players to be competitive and it is a PvP centric game at the end.
Unfortunatly, this is the case.
My bigger concern is that the first 30 levels of the game, "been there done that" questing & combat, is what is going to keep players from getting hooked. The LP situation early on won't help matters.
I know that we've heard this before, but it REALLY is true w/ AA, and that is, the game totally opens up after lvl 30, IF, a big IF, IF you like crafting/farming.
You MUST like pvp to get into this game. The pve aspects are lacking.
Your points are all well taken. I agree that there is a P2W'ish component here, and I don't love it.
I will point out that i stated :"I'm talking about patron's here, not F2P players". I guess I'm a bit guilty of seeing F2P players as second class citizens.
XL has to be willing to change - they haven't in all this time. Trion can only suggest things.
I don't expect it to change since this is their only control on the economy, by controlling players.
Most forum posters are. If you are playing so many games, there is only so many that you can sub to. It gets too expensive to sub to more than one or two games.
Giving players that sub to a game more LP is not P2W. Somewhere along the way the term has been hijacked to mean that if you have to pay any money at all to play a game it's P2W. That's rubbish.
P2W means that people who have unlimited amounts of money can get huge edges in game. In AA that seems to be limited to purchasing LP pots once or twice a day. Although I wish there were no pots, that's not game breaking to me.
Requiring you to simply SUB to a game to get the full experience is not P2W but basic common sense business.
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If you're a crafting oriented type of player or love decorating your house, forget about playing F2P. Just forget it. By all means, use the F2P part to get a feel for the game play, but don't expect to indulge your favourite activities much.
On the other hand, if you're PVE or PVP focused, there's plenty of opportunity on the F2P side. Guilds need fighters. Boats need crew to work optimally in both offense and defense. You could play as a sellsword or join a merc company. Playing as part of a guild will give you plenty of PVP action, and in return the guild will usually support you well. It's in their interest to do so, after all.
LP are at a premium in the first few weeks of the game, when everyone is trying to be the first to do various things. That won't last, things will get a lot more laid-back after a month or two.
Good post.!
There really needs to be a "like" button so I don't have to keep giving proper replys to people for just /agreeing w/ them.
They hope to have the labor points to open quest rewards removed before open beta if they wont make that deadline it will be before release.
I don't generally play freemium games as a F2P player, but it's worth noting, again, that you don't get offline LP as a F2P player.
That means in order to accrue LP, especially if you're waiting on them, you must stay logged into the game while not playing.
I am totally on board with providing more perks to subscribers, but they could at least give F2P a small amount of LP while offline. That way they could log in every few days to do some of the things they enjoy at the very least.
I don't know. I just get a crappy feeling when I have to leave crafting material nodes untouched as I discover them because my LP is gone.
This is from someone that is still a strong Trion supporter. Their Rift F2P system is second to none in my opinion. Subscribing is worth it, imo, just like it is in Archeage, but the two systems for the two games make Archeage less desirable for me.
F2P Players help games with this type of payment model thrive. But frustrating your F2P section in this way is never a good idea.
my 2 isk / scrip / cp / cents
I wemt form 5k LP, to 400 lp building a small house. I did plan for it, so its all good.
Gathered 600 stone, and 300 logs, made the packs, and build it. I had a little help from a F2P friend. Not much tho. He found the trees, I had to cut them.
I also gathered enough iron, while getting stone, to make a 120 iron Ingots. Smelt them too. That was kind of a mistake, but oh well.
It is possible to dip under 1k LP. You just have to try really hard.
PS: Yes, Im Patron. So I get the Patron LP regen.
Trion has already said the Labor Points for opening Quest rewards was being removed.
Maybe as early as next week.
That is a lot! I guess I must not have made my house all at once. In fact, I know I did the mining way before I even knew I needed to to build a house.
I hope I didn't come off like I was speaking in absolutes. It is possible to have LP be a problem, as you have pointed out, but it's not a "regular" or "major" problem most of the time like some people are making it out to be. It's not like you're going to be making a house on a regular basis. It's a one time thing.
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?24535-How-Long-Do-XL-Discussions-Take&p=269042&viewfull=1#post269042
Before someone asks where the link is I went and looked it up.
Gameplay balancing and major features in particular take more time as they require collaboration with XLGAMES. We've definitely heard the feedback and seen the data related to, for instance, archeum availability. We're in the process of communicating this to the developers who are also supporting five other publishers and their communities' feedback. Even once a course of action is jointly decided, there's still the matter of coding the change, testing it, assembling a new build, and then introducing it first to Alpha followed by Beta. For example, XLGAMES and Trion Worlds have together agreed that quest rewards will not require labor to identify and use. However, that decision still has to manifest in the game through the described process.
Yes it was a lot! I think of the pure joy I had doing it, and the joy I had when i had the house built. Good times!
I dont think of it a problem, tho. I think of it as a challenge. Im loving AA. I cant wait to get my teeth into the next beta.
They are looking into the LP for quest rewards. My thinking is this will be a good change, for everyone.
My post was about how much you have to do to get below 1k LP. It takes a bit to dip under that. Also, its not everyday you build a house in AA. Well, maybe for me it will. I have 5 friends who will need help building houses also. Again, not a problem, a challenge.
Here is a link that illustrates how having multiple accounts is less expensive and more efficient than "chugging" LP Pots.
It kind of, sort of, debunks the notion that AA is P2W, uless you consider having multiple accounts P2W, in which case ALL games are P2W.
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?24767-The-labour-potion-problem.../page9
I did the same and was burning trough my labor like no tomorow .
Chopping trees / mining iron / planting cotton on my large farm.
Did it all in one day and went trough all my labor, but lucky this isnt an every day labor usage
Once you have build all the stuff its realy hard to burn trough it all, no way in hell you even want to do that stuff even tough its tons of fun to build your own clipper / house.
Its a ton of planning and gathering and farming and building
Only when i reach the cap i burn trough it with a diffrent skill set and make hereafter stones for max exp for that skill tree and switch back once i burned trough enough labor
!
Thats one of the parts i also like alot !
Leveling alternative skill tree trough labor is realy nifty !
I forgot to mention. I did get enough ores to also get 3 pieces of the Mining gear from the Blue Salt Brotherhood! Good times.
An experiment needs to be conducted... requires a patron and a closed beta tester. For next closed beta test, you both will create a new character and proceed together doing the same tasks. By the time the closed beta ends, compare what you accomplished. Since patrons have access to certain things F2P players are not, for this experiment, you need to both approach the game as if you only had access to F2P content. So use the public farm or hide your crops as a patron. The test is to see if a patron, playing as if they were a F2P character has an advantage over the non-F2P character. Basically you have to abstain from using services that would otherwise be unavailable to you and utilize the services that would be available to a F2P character.
Would be interesting to see just how much difference there is if they both played the same way.
The patron could log on for a few hours and accomplish the same as the beta tester going full bore. That's the thing with LPs, for a non-patron they only regen online and at the rate the patron's does while he's offline. There are a few other bonuses which aid in grinding up to level 50 and there are the loyalty tokens (5 per day if I am not mistaken) which function as a stipend for the cash shop (though it is a exclusive loyalty store with more cosmetics if I am not mistaken and the same potions as the CS plus the tax thingy).
P2W has always meant paying for an advantage. What has happened is player tolerance levels for " fair " gameplay has dropped significantly because they have been playing nothing but microtransaction games. Players no longer want to accept that they have to take the long way to achieving the same thing as a paying customer.
What was " free " before is not free enough now.