I think its important to compare games to see and understand the different audiences they are created for. Here it was definitely more slanted towards AA but I agree with his underlying point... I'd prefer an MMO that is generic but has enough depth to allow me to create my own content.
Its the only viable future for MMOs imo. The idea of content that is consumed faster that it can be created is unsustainable.
I dont know how much of the gaming community as a whole is ready for it -- but I am. Enjoying the beta so far and will admit the first couple of weeks were rough as I tried to play it in a purely scripted way. Once I learned doing what I liked didn't ruin my chances of progression I slowly eased into what the game has to offer. I immediately understood that the game will require patience with the rewards of doing so being a greater accomplishment than one given to me.
Will I like the game one year from now? I have no idea but willing to pay that risk to find out.
AA is a big deal. Its less about commerical success (FOTM) and more about can it create a small committed community. Success in that is what I think would inspire change or at least a shift in direction regardless of what you want to call it.
Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.
DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost.
DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.
Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media Marketing
Coincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.
DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost.
DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.
Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media Marketing
Coincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.
DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost.
DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.
Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media Marketing
Coincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Originally posted by darkhalf357x Originally posted by bcbully Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost. DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media MarketingCoincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Who is this guy?
Author of the Column.
and so now his cred has spiked - whose ready to believe everything he says now? Huh raise your hand.
"I’m not trying to universalize my own experience"
Yes actually you are.
A very long story about your Skyrim experience. An even longer TESO rant followed by some about AA that doesn't even remotely come close to your Skyrim experience.
So, please explain HOW your Skyrim experience with Lydia compares with AA.
It does not. And if you say that it was that you chose to build a ship with no quests or the like, you can craft anything in TESO without a quest also nor does it have anything to do with your Skyrim companion dying as all of the companions can die unless you have the mod that makes them essential. And no, I don't LIKE TESO so don't say I am defending it, I never bought it because it isn't an actual ES game. Don't start over bloating the AA hype machine, it has no chance to live up to what it has now, with you daring to compare it to ES will only make it worse.
Let the game stand on its own merits.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I believe that Kyle has presented his viewpoints in a well thought out and mature fashion. He raises questions that are universal in nature with respect to mmo's, and i feel has done so in a non-confrontational manner that encourages deliberation.
It is unfortunate that some readers appear to have lost sight of some of Kyle's objective, namely to open a larger dialogue on the grander questions of sandbox game design, and have chosen rather to focus on the vehicle that was used to deliver the question - which was the comparative examples cited in two game titles. I understand at the same time however that many readers are here not to engage in activities requiring them to embrace alternate perspectives, but rather are here to forward their own personal perspective, oftentimes based upon emotional or competitive considerations.
That being said, my intent in posting is not to challenge those people who are posting responses centered on building up or tearing down a particular game title, for whatever personal reason. My intent rather was to voice my support for MMORPG.COM's decision to give Kyle a voice here, and furthermore to congratulate Kyle on a well written piece. The bar has been raised.
I believe that Kyle has presented his viewpoints in a well thought out and mature fashion. He raises questions that are universal in nature with respect to mmo's, and i feel has done so in a non-confrontational manner that encourages deliberation.
It is unfortunate that some readers appear to have lost sight of some of Kyle's objective, namely to open a larger dialogue on the grander questions of sandbox game design, and have chosen rather to focus on the vehicle that was used to deliver the question - which was the comparative examples cited in two game titles. I understand at the same time however that many readers are here not to engage in activities requiring them to embrace alternate perspectives, but rather are here to forward their own personal perspective, oftentimes based upon emotional or competitive considerations.
That being said, my intent in posting is not to challenge those people who are posting responses centered on building up or tearing down a particular game title, for whatever personal reason. My intent rather was to voice my support for MMORPG.COM's decision to give Kyle a voice here, and furthermore to congratulate Kyle on a well written piece. The bar has been raised.
Its clickbate. the title specifically states "How" yet never provides it. The very fact AA is being compared to Skyrim in some way is as laughable now as it was when TESO was being compared to it and its based on the same IP.
No MMO should ever be compared to an SRPG.
If the article was to raise the bar, it would be comparing AA to other sandbox MMORPGs, the other thing TESO tried to claim to be at one point because TES games are often called sandbox.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by coretex666 Very nice article. Quite surprised by all the flame.
It was very nicely written and OP did a great job for his freshman appearance. BUT, that doesnt eliminate the fact that it's a very controversial article as well that was bound to be flamed. As above poster said, trying to compare an MMO to an SRPG is not an easy feat. Especially when that SRPG happens to be Elder Scrolls, a very story driven game to AA, a very player driven game.
I enjoyed reading the article. I had many of the same thoughts after having played both games. I've played AA a lot more than the guy that wrote this, but he seems to get it. I really don't get all the hate over this article. I think it speaks volumes to the state of consumer the MMO world is forced to deliver to. Whiny children, who like nothing, find fault with anything and want a fully featured AAA game for free. Good luck.
Originally posted by maybebaked I enjoyed reading the article. I had many of the same thoughts after having played both games. I've played AA a lot more than the guy that wrote this, but he seems to get it. I really don't get all the hate over this article. I think it speaks volumes to the state of consumer the MMO world is forced to deliver to. Whiny children, who like nothing, find fault with anything and want a fully featured AAA game for free. Good luck.
so according to the "Maybebaked Dictionary"
Critical = Whiny
Critical Poster = Whiny Child
Don't like AA's LP System = Do not like anything
Blaming LP system on why you don't like AA = Find fault with anything
Asking that LP be removed for paying subscribers = Want a fully featured AA game for free
Originally posted by maybebaked I enjoyed reading the article. I had many of the same thoughts after having played both games. I've played AA a lot more than the guy that wrote this, but he seems to get it. I really don't get all the hate over this article. I think it speaks volumes to the state of consumer the MMO world is forced to deliver to. Whiny children, who like nothing, find fault with anything and want a fully featured AAA game for free. Good luck.
so according to the "Maybebaked Dictionary"
Critical = Whiny
Critical Poster = Whiny Child
Don't like AA's LP System = Do not like anything
Blaming LP system on why you don't like AA = Find fault with anything
Asking that LP be removed for paying subscribers = Want a fully featured AA game for free
Makes sense...maybe????
The more you know.
Take for example that I have posted a great many times that I play the Japanese version and love the game and the fact that they are currently the only ones working on removing the P2W aspects of 1.0/1.1 and that I intend on continuing to play it. I do this all while railing against the current version.
Once you have done this, his criticism's are actually all about himself.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The Elder Scrolls games are as much about story and themepark-ish quests as they are about being sandbox. I don't even really consider them sandboxes - they are all open world action rpgs that are generally heavy on the rpg stuff. It's true that the world is the biggest draw, but that world comes to life for a lot of players through quests. In that vein, ESO is a proper Elder Scrolls game, and it is bringing more ES stuff shortly.
And granted I didn't get very far with AA, but there's no way I get ES vibes from the gameplay and quests in the game - the quests did not seem open world to me (although granted the world and gameplay mechanics open up). In fact, I would say AA reminds me more of Mabinogi - story missions and open world gameplay.
The Elder Scrolls games are as much about story and themepark-ish quests as they are about being sandbox. I don't even really consider them sandboxes - they are all open world action rpgs that are generally heavy on the rpg stuff. It's true that the world is the biggest draw, but that world comes to life for a lot of players through quests. In that vein, ESO is a proper Elder Scrolls game, and it is bringing more ES stuff shortly.
And granted I didn't get very far with AA, but there's no way I get ES vibes from the gameplay and quests in the game - the quests did not seem open world to me (although granted the world and gameplay mechanics open up). In fact, I would say AA reminds me more of Mabinogi - story missions and open world gameplay.
That's actually not a bad comparison....Mabinogi to AA...only in Mabinogi you can terraform
Its clickbate. the title specifically states "How" yet never provides it. The very fact AA is being compared to Skyrim in some way is as laughable now as it was when TESO was being compared to it and its based on the same IP.
No MMO should ever be compared to an SRPG.
If the article was to raise the bar, it would be comparing AA to other sandbox MMORPGs, the other thing TESO tried to claim to be at one point because TES games are often called sandbox.
Maybe read it again, because it "kind of does".
It doesn't have a big "=" sign but it's one of the better articles to have been posted on this site.
First, he defines an experience that was very unique to him that happened in Skyrim. Having over 1048 hours in Skyrim I can attest to unique experiences.
then he moves to ESO and the "MMO" the game that should be a comparison to Archeage and relates his experiences of trying to play in the same way as Skyrim (since it is an elder scrolls game) but never feeling the same connection to his experiences as he did with the single player game.
I realize one is an mmo and one is single player but with the Elder Scrolls Moniker, many people are drawn to the idea of playing a game like Morrowind or Skryim or Daggerfall but with a multiplayer component. As I have said many times, Before I started playign mmo's I thought that mmo's were like Morrowind but with multiplayer because listening to people describe them as "world" kind of made them so in my mind. World like Morrowind but more vast and with people in them.
Obviously not so.
He then talks about his experiences in ArcheAge, how ArcheAge approaches its game play goals in a less "this is what you must do" way and therefore he gets more unique experiences because of it.
Experiences that invite the inference precisely because they are like the unique experiences he had with Skyrim.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The Elder Scrolls games are as much about story and themepark-ish quests as they are about being sandbox. I don't even really consider them sandboxes - they are all open world action rpgs that are generally heavy on the rpg stuff. It's true that the world is the biggest draw, but that world comes to life for a lot of players through quests.
My roommate played morrowind for along time only doing a few quests, Same with Oblvion. never did any of the guild quests or the main storylines.
With skyrim he found that he liked the the main quest so he did the main quest and only a few quests he found in the wild.
One can choose to play these games like they want. I have a skyrim character that does no quests except thieves' guild and one that does not quests except the Dark Brother hood.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The Elder Scrolls games are as much about story and themepark-ish quests as they are about being sandbox. I don't even really consider them sandboxes - they are all open world action rpgs that are generally heavy on the rpg stuff. It's true that the world is the biggest draw, but that world comes to life for a lot of players through quests.
My roommate played morrowind for along time only doing a few quests, Same with Oblvion. never did any of the guild quests or the main storylines.
With skyrim he found that he liked the the main quest so he did the main quest and only a few quests he found in the wild.
One can choose to play these games like they want. I have a skyrim character that does no quests except thieves' guild and one that does not quests except the Dark Brother hood.
With Morrowind at least he missed a pretty cool story - the best in the series, except maybe some Dark Brotherhood stuff.
ES quests are for me just guide-posts that often tell interesting stories that I do in between dungeon crawling random dungeons and exploring the environments. That is open world but I would not go so far as to say that it is a sandbox. Very rarely do your actions ultimately affect the world. I don't think that point negates the themepark-ness of the ES series; maybe crafting does, especially spellcrafting, but choosing what quests you choose to follow in creating the story you have for your character as you dungeon crawl I would argue still follows what I said above. I do a lot of the quests in the ES games, but I often skip them (I hate the Champions in Skyrim, so I avoid it generally or just try to do the randomly generated quests).
I know the point of the article is that you are creating your own story, but I just don't see how AA is doing it any better than ESO when in fact ESO is doing it much the same way that the ES series does it - although it can go a lot farther in this area but it is, like the writer pointed, out stupidly limiting itself, to some modern MMO conventions, such as quest markers and not nearly enough diversity or amount of dungeons to go exploring.
Just me but I loved the Elder Scrolls single player game and uninstalled ESO after a scant 2 weeks. They completely missed the mark with me, seems as if a lot of others feel the same way.
Most MMO'st make me feel like a ball rolling down a chute, only one place to end up and only one way to get there. Been that way for a long time now. I am just happy to have a game that breaks that cycle
He then talks about his experiences in ArcheAge, how ArcheAge approaches its game play goals in a less "this is what you must do" way and therefore he gets more unique experiences because of it.
Experiences that invite the inference precisely because they are like the unique experiences he had with Skyrim.
His "experience" is that he and his friends built a boat with no quests and as I pointed out, you can craft in ESO without quests and this is why I said AA should be compared to Skyrim, it should be compared to MMOs.
AA is not like Skyrim or any other ES game, it has less in common with them than TESO does and it doesn't have much in common with them either.
The article can be summed up easily by this quote from it "Gamers throw around terms like “Sandbox” and “Pay to Win” as if they are hard black-and-white measurables as opposed to buzzwords that vaguely refer to situations that are clearly on a continuum, and a heavily subjective one at that."
Yet the title and premise of the article is how a game captures the "Spirt" of another, a highly subjective buzzword used as if is a hard black-and-white measurable thing.
This falls in line with the exact same types of articles we saw for TESO and SWTOR before their release to drum up massive hype and bring in advertising dollars and it wasn't until after release and those dollars dropped off that the sudden folly of the game started to come out.
Sure wouldn't have seen anyone talk about TESO like this a two months ago, in fact, we heard the exact opposite. TESO was ES all the way and was an IMPROVEMENT on Skyrim. If you even dared to point out that the game did not have any of the soul of ES it would lead to a temporary ban for being "overly negative".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.
DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost.
DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.
Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media Marketing
Coincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Comments
To the article.. I liked it.
I think its important to compare games to see and understand the different audiences they are created for. Here it was definitely more slanted towards AA but I agree with his underlying point... I'd prefer an MMO that is generic but has enough depth to allow me to create my own content.
Its the only viable future for MMOs imo. The idea of content that is consumed faster that it can be created is unsustainable.
I dont know how much of the gaming community as a whole is ready for it -- but I am. Enjoying the beta so far and will admit the first couple of weeks were rough as I tried to play it in a purely scripted way. Once I learned doing what I liked didn't ruin my chances of progression I slowly eased into what the game has to offer. I immediately understood that the game will require patience with the rewards of doing so being a greater accomplishment than one given to me.
Will I like the game one year from now? I have no idea but willing to pay that risk to find out.
AA is a big deal. Its less about commerical success (FOTM) and more about can it create a small committed community. Success in that is what I think would inspire change or at least a shift in direction regardless of what you want to call it.
Kyle Trembley - Project Manager at DB Creative, Inc.
DB Creative, Inc. - DB Creative will strengthen your brand no matter what your needs are. Consistency in design and message, across multiple media channels, is our top priority. Whether creating marketing collateral or consulting, partnering with us will enhance the perception and efficiency of your brand... and at a reasonable cost.
DB Creative has over 20 years of custom design experience. We specialize in brand development, Emmy nominated broadcast design, print media, internet design, consulting, and more. We will create a solution for what you need.
Kyle Trembley's Skills & Expertise - Social Media Marketing
Coincidence I guess that he is a the project manager for a product branding company.
Who is this guy?
Author of the Column.
Who is this guy?
Author of the Column.
and so now his cred has spiked - whose ready to believe everything he says now? Huh raise your hand.
"I’m not trying to universalize my own experience"
Yes actually you are.
A very long story about your Skyrim experience. An even longer TESO rant followed by some about AA that doesn't even remotely come close to your Skyrim experience.
So, please explain HOW your Skyrim experience with Lydia compares with AA.
It does not. And if you say that it was that you chose to build a ship with no quests or the like, you can craft anything in TESO without a quest also nor does it have anything to do with your Skyrim companion dying as all of the companions can die unless you have the mod that makes them essential. And no, I don't LIKE TESO so don't say I am defending it, I never bought it because it isn't an actual ES game. Don't start over bloating the AA hype machine, it has no chance to live up to what it has now, with you daring to compare it to ES will only make it worse.
Let the game stand on its own merits.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I believe that Kyle has presented his viewpoints in a well thought out and mature fashion. He raises questions that are universal in nature with respect to mmo's, and i feel has done so in a non-confrontational manner that encourages deliberation.
It is unfortunate that some readers appear to have lost sight of some of Kyle's objective, namely to open a larger dialogue on the grander questions of sandbox game design, and have chosen rather to focus on the vehicle that was used to deliver the question - which was the comparative examples cited in two game titles. I understand at the same time however that many readers are here not to engage in activities requiring them to embrace alternate perspectives, but rather are here to forward their own personal perspective, oftentimes based upon emotional or competitive considerations.
That being said, my intent in posting is not to challenge those people who are posting responses centered on building up or tearing down a particular game title, for whatever personal reason. My intent rather was to voice my support for MMORPG.COM's decision to give Kyle a voice here, and furthermore to congratulate Kyle on a well written piece. The bar has been raised.
Its clickbate. the title specifically states "How" yet never provides it. The very fact AA is being compared to Skyrim in some way is as laughable now as it was when TESO was being compared to it and its based on the same IP.
No MMO should ever be compared to an SRPG.
If the article was to raise the bar, it would be comparing AA to other sandbox MMORPGs, the other thing TESO tried to claim to be at one point because TES games are often called sandbox.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
It was very nicely written and OP did a great job for his freshman appearance. BUT, that doesnt eliminate the fact that it's a very controversial article as well that was bound to be flamed. As above poster said, trying to compare an MMO to an SRPG is not an easy feat. Especially when that SRPG happens to be Elder Scrolls, a very story driven game to AA, a very player driven game.
so according to the "Maybebaked Dictionary"
Critical = Whiny
Critical Poster = Whiny Child
Don't like AA's LP System = Do not like anything
Blaming LP system on why you don't like AA = Find fault with anything
Asking that LP be removed for paying subscribers = Want a fully featured AA game for free
Makes sense...maybe????
The more you know.
Take for example that I have posted a great many times that I play the Japanese version and love the game and the fact that they are currently the only ones working on removing the P2W aspects of 1.0/1.1 and that I intend on continuing to play it. I do this all while railing against the current version.
Once you have done this, his criticism's are actually all about himself.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Completely disagree with this article.
The Elder Scrolls games are as much about story and themepark-ish quests as they are about being sandbox. I don't even really consider them sandboxes - they are all open world action rpgs that are generally heavy on the rpg stuff. It's true that the world is the biggest draw, but that world comes to life for a lot of players through quests. In that vein, ESO is a proper Elder Scrolls game, and it is bringing more ES stuff shortly.
And granted I didn't get very far with AA, but there's no way I get ES vibes from the gameplay and quests in the game - the quests did not seem open world to me (although granted the world and gameplay mechanics open up). In fact, I would say AA reminds me more of Mabinogi - story missions and open world gameplay.
That's actually not a bad comparison....Mabinogi to AA...only in Mabinogi you can terraform
MO and DFO share more common ground than AA.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Maybe read it again, because it "kind of does".
It doesn't have a big "=" sign but it's one of the better articles to have been posted on this site.
First, he defines an experience that was very unique to him that happened in Skyrim. Having over 1048 hours in Skyrim I can attest to unique experiences.
then he moves to ESO and the "MMO" the game that should be a comparison to Archeage and relates his experiences of trying to play in the same way as Skyrim (since it is an elder scrolls game) but never feeling the same connection to his experiences as he did with the single player game.
I realize one is an mmo and one is single player but with the Elder Scrolls Moniker, many people are drawn to the idea of playing a game like Morrowind or Skryim or Daggerfall but with a multiplayer component. As I have said many times, Before I started playign mmo's I thought that mmo's were like Morrowind but with multiplayer because listening to people describe them as "world" kind of made them so in my mind. World like Morrowind but more vast and with people in them.
Obviously not so.
He then talks about his experiences in ArcheAge, how ArcheAge approaches its game play goals in a less "this is what you must do" way and therefore he gets more unique experiences because of it.
Experiences that invite the inference precisely because they are like the unique experiences he had with Skyrim.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My roommate played morrowind for along time only doing a few quests, Same with Oblvion. never did any of the guild quests or the main storylines.
With skyrim he found that he liked the the main quest so he did the main quest and only a few quests he found in the wild.
One can choose to play these games like they want. I have a skyrim character that does no quests except thieves' guild and one that does not quests except the Dark Brother hood.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
With Morrowind at least he missed a pretty cool story - the best in the series, except maybe some Dark Brotherhood stuff.
ES quests are for me just guide-posts that often tell interesting stories that I do in between dungeon crawling random dungeons and exploring the environments. That is open world but I would not go so far as to say that it is a sandbox. Very rarely do your actions ultimately affect the world. I don't think that point negates the themepark-ness of the ES series; maybe crafting does, especially spellcrafting, but choosing what quests you choose to follow in creating the story you have for your character as you dungeon crawl I would argue still follows what I said above. I do a lot of the quests in the ES games, but I often skip them (I hate the Champions in Skyrim, so I avoid it generally or just try to do the randomly generated quests).
I know the point of the article is that you are creating your own story, but I just don't see how AA is doing it any better than ESO when in fact ESO is doing it much the same way that the ES series does it - although it can go a lot farther in this area but it is, like the writer pointed, out stupidly limiting itself, to some modern MMO conventions, such as quest markers and not nearly enough diversity or amount of dungeons to go exploring.
I didn't even read the article, but the title is absolutely ridiculous.
A *huge* part of the Elder Scrolls feeling is the world itself, it seems like a living, breathing world.
NPCs going about their daily lives, not standing around waiting for you to talk to them.
ArcheAge is almost the complete opposite of that. The game world doesn't feel remotely real, or living, in ArcheAge.
Just me but I loved the Elder Scrolls single player game and uninstalled ESO after a scant 2 weeks. They completely missed the mark with me, seems as if a lot of others feel the same way.
Most MMO'st make me feel like a ball rolling down a chute, only one place to end up and only one way to get there. Been that way for a long time now. I am just happy to have a game that breaks that cycle
I miss DAoC
No. It wouldn't.
His "experience" is that he and his friends built a boat with no quests and as I pointed out, you can craft in ESO without quests and this is why I said AA should be compared to Skyrim, it should be compared to MMOs.
AA is not like Skyrim or any other ES game, it has less in common with them than TESO does and it doesn't have much in common with them either.
The article can be summed up easily by this quote from it "Gamers throw around terms like “Sandbox” and “Pay to Win” as if they are hard black-and-white measurables as opposed to buzzwords that vaguely refer to situations that are clearly on a continuum, and a heavily subjective one at that."
Yet the title and premise of the article is how a game captures the "Spirt" of another, a highly subjective buzzword used as if is a hard black-and-white measurable thing.
This falls in line with the exact same types of articles we saw for TESO and SWTOR before their release to drum up massive hype and bring in advertising dollars and it wasn't until after release and those dollars dropped off that the sudden folly of the game started to come out.
Sure wouldn't have seen anyone talk about TESO like this a two months ago, in fact, we heard the exact opposite. TESO was ES all the way and was an IMPROVEMENT on Skyrim. If you even dared to point out that the game did not have any of the soul of ES it would lead to a temporary ban for being "overly negative".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
(edit: no comment)