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  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Spankster77
    Originally posted by deavyin

     

    Rose tinted glasses man.  You are NOT speaking for the majority here.  If there wasn't a need for change then change would not have been made.

    I was one of those vanilla non raider players and believe me you, mylself nor anyone in my guild knew or cared who the raiders were and the community felt no different than it does today.  I am still in a guild, we still chill and chat on TS or Vent.  I do equal parts grouping with my guild as I do with random people.

    However, I did always feel like a lot of the raiding was gated for me.  I was a college student playing house with a fiancee at the time.  I also had a very active social life.  So, I would quit the game often for months at a time because I would run out of things to do.

    When LFR came about, I was playing SWToR and getting frustrated for the same reasons.  I saw an AD to check out this new LFR thing along with 7 free days for people with inactive accounts.  Haven't really looked back since.  I can still do 10 man normal raids on a casual basis with my guild and in between I enjoy LFR facerolling content I couldn't do otherwise.  

    I keep seeing this circumstantial arguments about community and all I can think is "weak sauce".  2004 was a different time and MMO games were in a different place then.  Get over it and get with the times.

    If Wildstar does not embrace 2014, it will fail.

    Facerolling LFR is fun?  You are not seeing content,  you are not experiencing the game, you are perusing through what a raid may be like. 

     

    Why is a challenge bad?  I don't play games to "see" content, never had and never will, I play games to experience content.  People act as if it's a bad thing to make a game that is challenging, I just don't get it.  People say things like "it's not hard, it's a time sink", so that being the case anyone can do it, it just may take a little longer, why is that bad? 

     

    I played EQ1 while I was in college, I had a live in girlfriend, a full class schedule, etc.  It took me over a year to reach max level and I was completely fine with that, I had some friends that did it in a few months.  That never bothered me, what bothers me are people that say, "I can't play the game too much so make the game shorter!", which is essentially what they have done in WoW.  By doing that what happens is the population is much less stable, it's like a revolving door.  WoW may have 7.8 million subs but how many of those subs are unique subs and an even better question would be how many are active subs?  In TBC you had guilds still working on SSC/TK and MH/BT when 3.0 dropped.  How many guilds are working on ToT at this point in the x-pack?  Why would they be when they can hit up LFR SoO the day after they hit 90?

     

     

    Before you try out your poor man's strawman arguments on me, you might want to read what I wrote.

     

    The reason /facerolling LFR is fun is the same reason soloing old raids is fun.  Because, it's something to do inbetween casual raiding with my guild.  If you had read what I wrote, you'd see that I still do 10 (with the occasional 25 man) normal raids.  LFR is nice since it lets you see content that you would otherwise not see.  I'd rather casual 10 man with LFR in between than not having access to that content.

     

    Point is...it's not all or nothing.  You can enjoy LFR for the big fun hectic chat room it is and still enjoy the challenge of proper raids.  Not everyone who does LFR exclusively does LFR.

     

    Why are you so focused on demanding that everyone enjoy games only the way you enjoy them?  Seriously...open your mind a little more and the world would be a better place for it.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223

    Originally posted by FelixMajor

    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    My problem is the gated content which is a huge time sink and incredibly grindy.  That combined with the fact the gameplay is simply not enough fun to warrant that repetition.  

    Unfortunately the game is plagued by this and only if you can stomach the questing to level up enough for more new content like dungeons, adventures, and better pvp options then you might start enjoying yourself.

     

    I still don't know how to feel about Wildstar...it feels like a unicorn woke up in my living room after a hard night of clubbing and partly vomit/shit a rainbow that became a video game.

    Haha hilarious!! Thanks for the laugh image

    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Snip

    Your last statement was all you had to say. The rest was a waste of time because you have an issue with joining another guild.

    Hmm... if he enjoys playing with a guild, why should he have to guildhop? I can relate to the guy seeing how hard it can be to find a good guild from my experience.

    Originally posted by deavyin

    If the only way to play the game properly is by guild jumping until you are in a guild that can raid then the game can hardly foster a proper sense of community where guilds are important ways for players to band together since they are only useful insofar as they can get you into the raiding content.

     

    There will never be enough raiding guilds for everyone. Period.  Either that is OK, or the paradigm needs to shift so that being in a raiding guild is no longer the sole recourse of those who want to raid.

     

    Yes, I have a problem with Carbine telling me the only way I can raid is to betray the guild I've been with for years.  No thanks.  I'll just stand by and watch Wildstar go F2P or fail miserably.


    I hate gated content, which is one reason why I won't get very far in the geargrind in WS. I can understand completely where you are coming from. The thing I don't understand is that you seem to insenuate that it is not possible for multiple guilds to do the larger raids. Why not? That is how I got to do raids in the past, "old school" games when my guild was not large enough.

    I wish devs would realize that a lot of players do not find either gated content or raids fun and choose to put other things in their endgame.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by Goldenx

    But that's just it, WoW flourished with a healthy population of players who didn't even raid back then.  They didn't throw a temper tantrum because some guild got to kill the bosses in AQ 40 and they didn't.  They actually had a community back then.  Players who logged in, to get this, meet other players online and to chat.  You know... interact with other people above all else.  They admired those that cleared the high end raids. You actually knew who certain players were just by their accomplishments in game.  Getting a high rank in PVP required a great deal of perseverance and you knew those people by name.  Not everyone could do it.  Didn't kill the game.  Not one bit.  It flourished.  Today's games is the exact opposite of vanilla WoW.  Sure, you can log on an play instantly, but you don't know, or care to know, anyone else in game.  They are merely bots to fill out your queue.  It's a single player game brought on by single player mentality.  Has zero to do with how much free time one has, because last time I checked, those 30 somethings playing WoW back in vanilla had jobs and kids and a mortgage to pay just like today.  Once you took the NEED to group out of the game, you killed the NEED for community.  40 man raids are completely doable in a game with a strong community... completely undoable in one with a weak one.  And games today foster no community gaming like it's an art form.  As such, raiding of old is gone... because the community is gone.  Without the community, there are no players, and without players, there is no game.  Any game that has a queuing tool is a game without community.  You have no in-game friends, you have a queue.  Because you have no in-game friends, you will never do a 40 man raid.

    It is interesting you say that but I am not sure if all of what you said goes hand-in-hand. Take a look at EQ2. This is a game you can solo to max level in and has a lfg tool. Except that no one seems to use the lfg tool. They advertize in lfg chat (when it is not being used for ooc). People still prefer to not solo and group up together, even for low level stuff despite it being a top heavy game. Why is this? I know the population is not on the order of WoW or WS, but what population is there seems "healthier" in some ways because people interact with each other despite the modern conveniences.

    I think it has also to do with the community that is attracted to the game rather than exclusively what systems are in the game. The Wildstar community so far has not been terribly friendly... it is more standoffish than current WoW's and is a lot like GW2's. When I have grouped up, people get the objective done and then leave straight away... no socializing, not even a time to say goodbye or 'hey do you want to do x?". And yet the game does try to promote socialization... so it is not an issue of how the game is developed. Same with a game like ToR that even offers social points so that you can buy social stuff.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • GoldenxGoldenx Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by deavyin
    Originally posted by Spankster77
    Originally posted by deavyin

     

    Rose tinted glasses man.  You are NOT speaking for the majority here.  If there wasn't a need for change then change would not have been made.

    I was one of those vanilla non raider players and believe me you, mylself nor anyone in my guild knew or cared who the raiders were and the community felt no different than it does today.  I am still in a guild, we still chill and chat on TS or Vent.  I do equal parts grouping with my guild as I do with random people.

    However, I did always feel like a lot of the raiding was gated for me.  I was a college student playing house with a fiancee at the time.  I also had a very active social life.  So, I would quit the game often for months at a time because I would run out of things to do.

    When LFR came about, I was playing SWToR and getting frustrated for the same reasons.  I saw an AD to check out this new LFR thing along with 7 free days for people with inactive accounts.  Haven't really looked back since.  I can still do 10 man normal raids on a casual basis with my guild and in between I enjoy LFR facerolling content I couldn't do otherwise.  

    I keep seeing this circumstantial arguments about community and all I can think is "weak sauce".  2004 was a different time and MMO games were in a different place then.  Get over it and get with the times.

    If Wildstar does not embrace 2014, it will fail.

    Facerolling LFR is fun?  You are not seeing content,  you are not experiencing the game, you are perusing through what a raid may be like. 

     

    Why is a challenge bad?  I don't play games to "see" content, never had and never will, I play games to experience content.  People act as if it's a bad thing to make a game that is challenging, I just don't get it.  People say things like "it's not hard, it's a time sink", so that being the case anyone can do it, it just may take a little longer, why is that bad? 

     

    I played EQ1 while I was in college, I had a live in girlfriend, a full class schedule, etc.  It took me over a year to reach max level and I was completely fine with that, I had some friends that did it in a few months.  That never bothered me, what bothers me are people that say, "I can't play the game too much so make the game shorter!", which is essentially what they have done in WoW.  By doing that what happens is the population is much less stable, it's like a revolving door.  WoW may have 7.8 million subs but how many of those subs are unique subs and an even better question would be how many are active subs?  In TBC you had guilds still working on SSC/TK and MH/BT when 3.0 dropped.  How many guilds are working on ToT at this point in the x-pack?  Why would they be when they can hit up LFR SoO the day after they hit 90?

     

     

    Before you try out your poor man's strawman arguments on me, you might want to read what I wrote.

     

    The reason /facerolling LFR is fun is the same reason soloing old raids is fun.  Because, it's something to do inbetween casual raiding with my guild.  If you had read what I wrote, you'd see that I still do 10 (with the occasional 25 man) normal raids.  LFR is nice since it lets you see content that you would otherwise not see.  I'd rather casual 10 man with LFR in between than not having access to that content.

     

    Point is...it's not all or nothing.  You can enjoy LFR for the big fun hectic chat room it is and still enjoy the challenge of proper raids.  Not everyone who does LFR exclusively does LFR.

     

    Why are you so focused on demanding that everyone enjoy games only the way you enjoy them?  Seriously...open your mind a little more and the world would be a better place for it.

    But that's just it, we aren't... you are.  There are a gazillion games that cater to exactly what you are after, why does THIS ONE, have to change to be more like them?  You are the one asking for it to change, we aren't.  The game already is made.  We didn't make it.  We aren't trying to change it.  You are.  We never said anyone needed to play like we do or play the games we do.  All we asked that is you play those other games instead if you don't like this one.  Pretty simple.  Can't get any clearer than that.  But noooo, we're they ones with the blinders on... at least we're not blind-folded.

  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487

    Basically the issue is that whenever a game isn't easy enough or isn't solo-able enough or isn't F2P people feel the need to come onto sites like this and bash the game.  They log on and interject what needs to change to keep the game from "failing" (which no one has any idea how the actual game is doing except NCSoft) and how they need to make it less this or more that or it's too this or too that.  Which in turn may actually detract a person from trying a game they may love. 

     

    Here is a novel idea, accept that the game isn't for you and that it doesn't need to be for you and go on your merry way.  If you are going to critique a game because it's ridden with bugs etc that is one thing but thinking that the design of a game should change because you don't like it is somewhat narcissistic.  I only play games that have organized raids but I wouldn't bash a game that doesn't have them because it may be a good game just not for me.  I would never say that unless said game adds what I like it will fail hard and fast and the only way to save it is to deliver what I like!!

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Goldenx
    Originally posted by deavyin
    Originally posted by Spankster77
    Originally posted by deavyin

     

    Rose tinted glasses man.  You are NOT speaking for the majority here.  If there wasn't a need for change then change would not have been made.

    I was one of those vanilla non raider players and believe me you, mylself nor anyone in my guild knew or cared who the raiders were and the community felt no different than it does today.  I am still in a guild, we still chill and chat on TS or Vent.  I do equal parts grouping with my guild as I do with random people.

    However, I did always feel like a lot of the raiding was gated for me.  I was a college student playing house with a fiancee at the time.  I also had a very active social life.  So, I would quit the game often for months at a time because I would run out of things to do.

    When LFR came about, I was playing SWToR and getting frustrated for the same reasons.  I saw an AD to check out this new LFR thing along with 7 free days for people with inactive accounts.  Haven't really looked back since.  I can still do 10 man normal raids on a casual basis with my guild and in between I enjoy LFR facerolling content I couldn't do otherwise.  

    I keep seeing this circumstantial arguments about community and all I can think is "weak sauce".  2004 was a different time and MMO games were in a different place then.  Get over it and get with the times.

    If Wildstar does not embrace 2014, it will fail.

    Facerolling LFR is fun?  You are not seeing content,  you are not experiencing the game, you are perusing through what a raid may be like. 

     

    Why is a challenge bad?  I don't play games to "see" content, never had and never will, I play games to experience content.  People act as if it's a bad thing to make a game that is challenging, I just don't get it.  People say things like "it's not hard, it's a time sink", so that being the case anyone can do it, it just may take a little longer, why is that bad? 

     

    I played EQ1 while I was in college, I had a live in girlfriend, a full class schedule, etc.  It took me over a year to reach max level and I was completely fine with that, I had some friends that did it in a few months.  That never bothered me, what bothers me are people that say, "I can't play the game too much so make the game shorter!", which is essentially what they have done in WoW.  By doing that what happens is the population is much less stable, it's like a revolving door.  WoW may have 7.8 million subs but how many of those subs are unique subs and an even better question would be how many are active subs?  In TBC you had guilds still working on SSC/TK and MH/BT when 3.0 dropped.  How many guilds are working on ToT at this point in the x-pack?  Why would they be when they can hit up LFR SoO the day after they hit 90?

     

     

    Before you try out your poor man's strawman arguments on me, you might want to read what I wrote.

     

    The reason /facerolling LFR is fun is the same reason soloing old raids is fun.  Because, it's something to do inbetween casual raiding with my guild.  If you had read what I wrote, you'd see that I still do 10 (with the occasional 25 man) normal raids.  LFR is nice since it lets you see content that you would otherwise not see.  I'd rather casual 10 man with LFR in between than not having access to that content.

     

    Point is...it's not all or nothing.  You can enjoy LFR for the big fun hectic chat room it is and still enjoy the challenge of proper raids.  Not everyone who does LFR exclusively does LFR.

     

    Why are you so focused on demanding that everyone enjoy games only the way you enjoy them?  Seriously...open your mind a little more and the world would be a better place for it.

    But that's just it, we aren't... you are.  There are a gazillion games that cater to exactly what you are after, why does THIS ONE, have to change to be more like them?  You are the one asking for it to change, we aren't.  The game already is made.  We didn't make it.  We aren't trying to change it.  You are.  We never said anyone needed to play like we do or play the games we do.  All we asked that is you play those other games instead if you don't like this one.  Pretty simple.  Can't get any clearer than that.  But noooo, we're they ones with the blinders on... at least we're not blind-folded.

     

    Look up quick!  See that?!  That's the point you completely missed as it whooshed over your head.

     

    So, let me get this straight, by wanting the game to cater to multiple types of play style (both casual and hardcore) we are being closed minded and by wanting us to F off and play a game you think is better suited to us so you can have your game that is ONLY suited to you, you are being open minded?

     

    Have you ever heard of projection?  Wanting exclusivity is not being inclusive and being inclusive is not promoting exclusivity.

     

    Demanding publishers make a game that ONLY caters to you, the minority, to the exclusion of the majority and then telling that majority "like it or leave it" IS...IS IS IS IS IS IS telling them to play the game the way YOU want them to play it.

     

    Wanting the publisher to augment a game to suit the needs of the hardcore and casual alike so they both can play it the way they want to (yes...totally possible if your developers are not worthless) is the opposite of telling somoene they have to play the game the way you want them to. 

     

    Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

     

    Please...turn off Fox News.

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436

    So far wildstar has been a great experience, and my server ZHUR, even though it often says that pop is on "low" i have never felt that the population ingame is lacking, pleanty of people everywhere, all queues pop almost instantly and serious/hardcore raiding guilds making visual progress.

     

    I personally love the art style & story, I also enjoy the dodge everything mechanic and for once a challenge that has been long time missing in mmo space.

     

    So yes,  the people that complain on wildstar just do it cause they really want to hate and thats about it.

    Let the haters hate I guess, but keep them out of wildstar is a good thing. the ingame community is great!

  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    Originally posted by deavyin

    Look up quick!  See that?!  That's the point you completely missed as it whooshed over your head.

     

    So, let me get this straight, by wanting the game to cater to multiple types of play style (both casual and hardcore) we are being closed minded and by wanting us to F off and play a game you think is better suited to us so you can have your game that is ONLY suited to you, you are being open minded?

     

    Have you ever heard of projection?  Wanting exclusivity is not being inclusive and being inclusive is not promoting exclusivity.

     

    Demanding publishers make a game that ONLY caters to you, the minority, to the exclusion of the majority and then telling that majority "like it or leave it" IS...IS IS IS IS IS IS telling them to play the game the way YOU want them to play it.

     

    Wanting the publisher to augment a game to suit the needs of the hardcore and casual alike so they both can play it the way they want to (yes...totally possible if your developers are not worthless) is the opposite of telling somoene they have to play the game the way you want them to. 

     

    Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

     

    Please...turn off Fox News.

    Some gamers want a game focused around organized raiding and guild community.  Adding in things like raid finder and group finder have a tendency to detract from certain aspects of the game that some people enjoy.  So by adding in those things which would appease a player like you it may also displease other players. 

     

    To answer your question, not everything needs to be for everyone.  The thought process that everything should be for everyone was created for 90's kids and is an absolute ridiculous notion.  Not everyone can be a winner, not everyone can be successful, etc.  Life doesn't work that way!  Just like the Abercrombie dude who only makes his clothes for in shape people, I think he's a tool but I applaud him.  If a company choses to do business with a specific demographic, it's their decision and their right.

     

    If NCSoft did in fact make this game for the "hardcore" and it fails it's their right.  Just like the Abercrombie dude, if it succeeds but it excludes a huge base of players well that's cool too.   

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Member UncommonPosts: 759
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    My problem is the gated content which is a huge time sink and incredibly grindy.  That combined with the fact the gameplay is simply not enough fun to warrant that repetition.  

    Unfortunately the game is plagued by this and only if you can stomach the questing to level up enough for more new content like dungeons, adventures, and better pvp options then you might start enjoying yourself.

     

    I still don't know how to feel about Wildstar...it feels like a unicorn woke up in my living room after a hard night of clubbing and partly vomit/shit a rainbow that became a video game.

    After playing the Beta this is how I felt also. It made me think of what WoW would have been if it was a Sci-Fi MMO.

    As far as the complaints of it being hard...... maybe at higher levels it does (?) because I found it too easy and simplistic. The combat was boring and predictable with too many graphic tells and combat timers that made it east to avoid special abilities. At one point I let my cat mash my keys while I finished my sandwich (not really but I am sure I could have).


  • MidBossMidBoss Member Posts: 93

    This was advertised as, and currently is, a niche game for people that want hard instance content and large group raiding.

    It was never ever said to be anything else by the Devs or the people that followed it's development.

    So what exactly is the issue here?

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Spankster77
    Originally posted by deavyin

    Look up quick!  See that?!  That's the point you completely missed as it whooshed over your head.

     

    So, let me get this straight, by wanting the game to cater to multiple types of play style (both casual and hardcore) we are being closed minded and by wanting us to F off and play a game you think is better suited to us so you can have your game that is ONLY suited to you, you are being open minded?

     

    Have you ever heard of projection?  Wanting exclusivity is not being inclusive and being inclusive is not promoting exclusivity.

     

    Demanding publishers make a game that ONLY caters to you, the minority, to the exclusion of the majority and then telling that majority "like it or leave it" IS...IS IS IS IS IS IS telling them to play the game the way YOU want them to play it.

     

    Wanting the publisher to augment a game to suit the needs of the hardcore and casual alike so they both can play it the way they want to (yes...totally possible if your developers are not worthless) is the opposite of telling somoene they have to play the game the way you want them to. 

     

    Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

     

    Please...turn off Fox News.

    Some gamers want a game focused around organized raiding and guild community.  Adding in things like raid finder and group finder have a tendency to detract from certain aspects of the game that some people enjoy.  So by adding in those things which would appease a player like you it may also displease other players. 

     

    To answer your question, not everything needs to be for everyone.  The thought process that everything should be for everyone was created for 90's kids and is an absolute ridiculous notion.  Not everyone can be a winner, not everyone can be successful, etc.  Life doesn't work that way!  Just like the Abercrombie dude who only makes his clothes for in shape people, I think he's a tool but I applaud him.  If a company choses to do business with a specific demographic, it's their decision and their right.

     

    If NCSoft did in fact make this game for the "hardcore" and it fails it's their right.  Just like the Abercrombie dude, if it succeeds but it excludes a huge base of players well that's cool too.   

    It all has to do with implementation.  LFR was badly implemented in WoW and could have been a great tool to elongate the life span of the game for Casuals and been completely removed from necessity to the Hardcore players if Blizz divorced it from the gear treadmill so that LFR was not a stepping stone to Normal Raids.

     

    Having said that.  I agree with you.  Wildstar has their right to make a game exclusively for the hardcore.  Just as the casual or semi-casual or soft-core or whatever group has the right to voice their complaints.  It's entirely up to numbers whether Carbine will make changes.

     

    I would bet a million dollars that, as is, Wildstar is not a sustainable game.  It WILL go F2P.  I don't believe that hardcore gamers will just shrug their shoulders and say "c'set la vie" and I do not believe it is better off for them since Carbine failing at an exclusively hardcore game for the niche minority will likely drive a nail in the coffin for 40 man raids and hardcore focused content in general.  A compromise would have been best.   You know: when the developers said "we want to do WoW right".  

     

    I thought they meant "evolve the WoW formula to what it SHOULD look like in 2014 if Blizzard made better decisions" instead of "not learn from their mistakes and just go back in time to 2004 and pray the world doesn't move on without us".

     

    Wildstar will go F2p.  It will it will it will.  no ifs ands or buts about it.  Search Wildstar on google today and click the link for news.  They are giving out thousands of 7 day free trial keys less than 2 months after release.  

     

    Anecdotal sure...but everything is going against the long term success of this game.  

     

    Enjoy it while you can.  Don't say we didn't try to help.  Can't wait until F2P and all the elitist entitled hardcore toxic people are gone back to LoL so we casuals can enjoy what will be a much better game.

     

  • MidBossMidBoss Member Posts: 93
    Originally posted by deavyin

    Enjoy it while you can.  Don't say we didn't try to help.  Can't wait until F2P and all the elitist entitled hardcore toxic people are gone back to LoL so we casuals can enjoy what will be a much better game.


    You're the reason "casual" is thrown as an insult, please stop.

    Your views of what make an enjoyable game are not the same as mine, stop forcing them as an inevitable fact.

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by MidBoss
    Originally posted by deavyin

    Enjoy it while you can.  Don't say we didn't try to help.  Can't wait until F2P and all the elitist entitled hardcore toxic people are gone back to LoL so we casuals can enjoy what will be a much better game.


    You're the reason "casual" is thrown as an insult, please stop.

    Your views of what make an enjoyable game are not the same as mine, stop forcing them as an inevitable fact.

    Go to the forums and look at every thread with complaints from casuals being gated from enjoying the game and you will inevitably find the "go back to WoW bad" comment.

    That is the definition of toxic: "we don't want you here".  OK buddy...don't be surprised when enough of us leave, as we are now, that drastic changes are made.

     

    Like in every other single mmo that isn't WoW.  But i'm sure Wildstar will buck the trend because telling the majority of your base to F off is always the best solution in the long term.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    This is one thing I liked about Craglorn in ESO, it was actually hard, but people cried about it, and now it's getting nerfed.
  • LudwikLudwik Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Originally posted by MidBoss

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft.

    If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it.

    But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.
  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689
    I honestly enjoy this game, its not quite as bad as the old school games ultima online to name one. Die on there you drop your loot lol. But i do grow tired of people using WoW as an example of what wildstar needs, WoW is now selling lvl 90 toons for 60 bucks...that should speak for how casual it has become compaired to what it was. many wildstar players from what i see on the forums are resubbing to WoW because they dont want to have to work for their PVP gear or rating and they dont want the timer on dungeons.

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  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    Originally posted by deavyin 

    Enjoy it while you can.  Don't say we didn't try to help.  Can't wait until F2P and all the elitist entitled hardcore toxic people are gone back to LoL so we casuals can enjoy what will be a much better game.

     

    Thanks for proving my point!  You are hoping that this game that I enjoy "fails" so that it will force the developers to change it to a game that you like even though you don't like the game to begin with.  Sounds legit.

     

    You sir are that guy!

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by MidBoss

     

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft. If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it. But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.

    They are the HUGE elephant in the room.  I see a lot of people compairing Wildstar to EvE online.  It is in no way an apt comparison.  EvE was developed for about 20 million and Wildstar was over 100+ million.  CCP is a small developer from Europe that self published it's game. It is also PRIVATELY OWNED which means it only has to answer to itself and not a board or shareholders. It started small and slowly built a niche following as it added in features over time.

     

    Carbine studios is a small developer tied to a behemoth of a publisher that is publicly traded with a board and share holders.  They pumped over 100+ million (over 9 years) into making this game and they EXPECT the biggest return on their investment.  NCSoft is known for pulling the plug on games that would other wise be profitable because they were niche (COH anyone?).  

     

    I think it's laughable to think NCsoft would be OK with a niche product on their hand if F2P or dropping the casual hammer on the game would be more profitable.

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Spankster77
    Originally posted by deavyin 

    Enjoy it while you can.  Don't say we didn't try to help.  Can't wait until F2P and all the elitist entitled hardcore toxic people are gone back to LoL so we casuals can enjoy what will be a much better game.

     

    Thanks for proving my point!  You are hoping that this game that I enjoy "fails" so that it will force the developers to change it to a game that you like even though you don't like the game to begin with.  Sounds legit.

     

    You sir are that guy!

    I think you might want to re-think your point.

     

    The reason we "casuals" are here on these forums duscussing the issues is so that changes can be made to help save the life of the game.  I don't know of any casuals who are demanding that hard content be removed.  In fact, many of us (myself included) DO NOT want LFR or EZ Mode.

     

    We just want ridiculous attunements removed and other pointless time gates.  Guess what: the developers have already said that they will not have any more, as they put it, "horrid" attunements.  All future attunements will be short story missions.  The devs are listening.  We only hope they do it before the toxic elitists run all of the paying customers out of the game.

     

    Telling us to "go back to WoW" only hastens the demise of the game you apparently love.  But, feel free to be counterproductive.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by MidBoss

     

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft. If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it. But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.

    Good bit of truth to this statement, they did the same thing to Anet and GW2 by tying their hands and forcing content through a cash shop. Whatever makes NC$oft the most money at the end of the day is the direction the company is going to head, it's been proven time and time again.

     

    It's one reason why I'm very vocal about trying to get Carbine to fix all of WildStar's problems. I have no desire to see it become another F2P disaster or get axed completely because Carbine didn't act fast enough to save the game's player retention rate. I hope everything works out for Carbine and the players of WildStar, but I'm not holding my breath when NC$oft has all the cards in the deck in their hand.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
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    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by MidBoss

     

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft. If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it. But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.

    Good bit of truth to this statement, they did the same thing to Anet and GW2 by tying their hands and forcing content through a cash shop. Whatever makes NC$oft the most money at the end of the day is the direction the company is going to head, it's been proven time and time again.

     

    It's one reason why I'm very vocal about trying to get Carbine to fix all of WildStar's problems. I have no desire to see it become another F2P disaster or get axed completely because Carbine didn't act fast enough to save the game's player retention rate. I hope everything works out for Carbine and the players of WildStar, but I'm not holding my breath when NC$oft has all the cards in the deck in their hand.

    People ask me "why are you on forums talking about a game you hate?".  Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by deavyin
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by MidBoss

     

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft. If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it. But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.

    They are the HUGE elephant in the room.  I see a lot of people compairing Wildstar to EvE online.  It is in no way an apt comparison.  EvE was developed for about 20 million and Wildstar was over 100+ million.  CCP is a small developer from Europe that self published it's game. It is also PRIVATELY OWNED which means it only has to answer to itself and not a board or shareholders. It started small and slowly built a niche following as it added in features over time.

     

    Carbine studios is a small developer tied to a behemoth of a publisher that is publicly traded with a board and share holders.  They pumped over 100+ million (over 9 years) into making this game and they EXPECT the biggest return on their investment.  NCSoft is known for pulling the plug on games that would other wise be profitable because they were niche (COH anyone?).  

     

    I think it's laughable to think NCsoft would be OK with a niche product on their hand if F2P or dropping the casual hammer on the game would be more profitable.

    You are NOT wrong about NCSoft and COH. They simply showed that they aren't willing to invest money into an IP that makes small margins (because let's face it COH still had a pretty consistent population, even up until the end). 

     

    Should be interesting to see if they release sales numbers or choose not to. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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  • deavyindeavyin Member Posts: 68
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by deavyin
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by MidBoss

     

    So what exactly is the issue here?

     

    The issue is NCSoft. If you Wildstar fans trusted your developer, you wouldn't have to constantly defend your game. You would tell the haters off and that would be it. But you have to defend your game because you know they'll sell your ass up the river if it gets them 10 more subs.

    They are the HUGE elephant in the room.  I see a lot of people compairing Wildstar to EvE online.  It is in no way an apt comparison.  EvE was developed for about 20 million and Wildstar was over 100+ million.  CCP is a small developer from Europe that self published it's game. It is also PRIVATELY OWNED which means it only has to answer to itself and not a board or shareholders. It started small and slowly built a niche following as it added in features over time.

     

    Carbine studios is a small developer tied to a behemoth of a publisher that is publicly traded with a board and share holders.  They pumped over 100+ million (over 9 years) into making this game and they EXPECT the biggest return on their investment.  NCSoft is known for pulling the plug on games that would other wise be profitable because they were niche (COH anyone?).  

     

    I think it's laughable to think NCsoft would be OK with a niche product on their hand if F2P or dropping the casual hammer on the game would be more profitable.

    You are NOT wrong about NCSoft and COH. They simply showed that they aren't willing to invest money into an IP that makes small margins (because let's face it COH still had a pretty consistent population, even up until the end). 

     

    Should be interesting to see if they release sales numbers or choose not to. 

    Another important point.  NCSoft also published GW2 and BOY OH BOY did they brag about their numbers when that game came out.  I thought it was the second coming of christ.

     

    Thus far they have been mum.  Someone on the official forums posted a little bit ago a twitter conversation with the community manager frost (guy in the dev videos) asking whether they would release numbers and the response was "no.  we are doing fine though ;)"

     

    The poster was satisfied...I was not.

     

    NCSoft will not accept small margins.  This game was a huge investment (100+ million is no chump change).  They could have stripped out a lot (housing etc) and made the game for a fraction of what it cost and then I could see it justifying it's existence as a niche game.

     

  • SethiusXSethiusX Member Posts: 171
    Originally posted by Phertias

    Recently I have seen a lot of negative comments about Wildstar. Something like  "the game is too hard", "attunement takes too long" or "the game is dead". 

    Now I know MMORPG is not the right forum to write it in because lets face it, the only community that is more toxic is the LoL community, but still I find it relevant to post here. 

    People in here like to think they played old-school MMORPGs, back in the days when it was hard and took time. Well, Wildstar is hard and it takes time, but now its bad because of it? When people suggest shit as Raid Finder and easier attunements, thats where I dont get it... Raid Finder is NOT an easier way to get gear or progress! Raid Finder is an EXCUSE for not being willing to find a guild. 

    And thats the main issue. People complain because they dont want to find a guild. They just want to queue and get items by themselves. And its the same people that complain about too much single player content. Double standards at its best. 

    Now some might say, "The guilds demand too much time from me", but you also know that Raid Finding will take twice as long to progress 20% of what a guild could. People have forgot what it means to have hard group content and now they are whining because they dont remember how to play an actual quality MMORPG. It doesnt hurt me that people cant figure it out, it hurts me that you have to talk shit about the best game out there because YOU dont remember how to play a group-focused hard game.

    On the note, I have played almost every game to the late game (WoW, Rift, TSW, Vanguard, STO, Vindictus etc. etc. etc.) and this game is more polished, more difficult, more enjoyable and has a lot more players than the average MMORPG and is definately NOT dead.

    You make some good points, and perhaps are a tad too all-or-nothing on others. Regardless, Wildstar is a very feature complete and quality game, and it deserves recognition for that. Some will enjoy it, mostly those that like a hard group progression game or those who want an mmo with tons of features and stuff to do. Others might not, those who can't commit, or don't want to commit, the time it takes to immerse themselves in what Wildstar has to offer. Still others might not like Wildstar for any plethora of personal reasons, and that is just fine. It's a game with a lot of personality and challenging gameplay... it is practically inviting a divide among gamers based on its very existence... and I think that is awesome. 

  • CarnicideCarnicide Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Now with my second 50 I do agree, the game is too hard for the majority of people that play MMO's. I was simply astonished by how people still don't know how to simply move out of the red puddles....... So, so so so so so so, sad.
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