Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
Then you have not played many games. Yeah SWG (pre-NGE) had issues but it wasn't that bad at all. Also, the game did not loose significant numbers until the NGE. The NGE was brought about by the insane amount of whining on the forums that it was to hard to become jedi. Basically the: we want it all, easy and now crowd killed that game. You seem to be a member of that club.
More to the point though, if they had spent the time fixing the bugs and not adding content until said bugs were (mostly) eradicated the game still would have been screwed over by the instant gratification crowd that seem to locust around ruining everything.
As a side note, please stay away from The Repopulation, it is hard and awesome and you would hate it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
I don't think anyone is saying the game was perfect. While it did have some negatives, its positives far outweighed those negatives. There is a reason why so many gamers think back on it so fondly. SWG was a great sandbox game. It had an immersion factor that few, if any, MMORPGs have been able to duplicate. Most of all it was unique, which is a huge plus in the sea of clones that we see in the MMORPG genre today.
I agree with both SWG and COH as numbers 1 and 2, by a good margin.
The article ends with "Star Wars: Galaxies has always been regarded as one of the greatest achievements in MMO history, something to aspire to once again." I am sorry, but those are some very thick, "bubbles from trailor park boys" rose colored glasses there.
When its a chore just to get the game to function properly (insane popup, enemies shooting through walls floors, quest items clipping through mountains/floor, crafting sometimes eating mats and producing either broken items r not producing items at all ). these issue were present in the game till its death. IMO, the negatives outweigh the posatives.
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
Then you have not played many games. Yeah SWG (pre-NGE) had issues but it wasn't that bad at all. Also, the game did not loose significant numbers until the NGE. The NGE was brought about by the insane amount of whining on the forums that it was to hard to become jedi. Basically the: we want it all, easy and now crowd killed that game. You seem to be a member of that club.
More to the point though, if they had spent the time fixing the bugs and not adding content until said bugs were (mostly) eradicated the game still would have been screwed over by the instant gratification crowd that seem to locust around ruining everything.
As a side note, please stay away from The Repopulation, it is hard and awesome and you would hate it.
The game that sold over 1 million boxes had less than 200k subs when the NGE hit. It actually rebounded to over 200k subs and didn't drop below the pre-nge numbers for over a year after the NGE released. It was spiraling toward nothingness long before Sony decided to revive it. You guys are so blinded by nostalgia it's staggering.
Originally posted by ste2000 WAR deserved to die as it was the first MMO that gave the start to this WoW clone craze that is plaguing the indudtry.
It's PvE was very obviously a WoW rip off, and no one at Mythic actually wanted it in there in that way (it was forced in by EA),
Mind you, it's been years upon years since the days of closed beta for WAR, so maybe I'm misremembering stuff from back then, but I was under the impression that GamesWorkshop were the ones that told Mythic it needed to be limited to 2 factions and have quest hubs?
Regardless though, I miss WAR. It needed to go F2P a year or two before shut down. But Mythic threw money into that half-assed MOBA style game. They were already selling vanity pets and stuff, so I assume the basis for F2P was there.
I find it funny that people call WAR a WoW clone, little do most know that Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game, but never got the IP license, so they came up with Warcraft.
I miss SWG and COX. I would probably still be playing both if SOE hadn't messed up SWG and COX didn't shut down. I was actually subscribed to COX for most of the time. I could just fly around town doing absolutely nothing, and have fun.
Warhammer was very much yelled at because it was so extremely similar to WoW and that got many player so disappointed that they stopped playing and in the end they had to close it.
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
Then you have not played many games. Yeah SWG (pre-NGE) had issues but it wasn't that bad at all. Also, the game did not loose significant numbers until the NGE. The NGE was brought about by the insane amount of whining on the forums that it was to hard to become jedi. Basically the: we want it all, easy and now crowd killed that game. You seem to be a member of that club.
More to the point though, if they had spent the time fixing the bugs and not adding content until said bugs were (mostly) eradicated the game still would have been screwed over by the instant gratification crowd that seem to locust around ruining everything.
As a side note, please stay away from The Repopulation, it is hard and awesome and you would hate it.
I talk about all the bugs and broken things in the game while never once mentioning the grind or it being "hard", and you respond to me calling me the "instant gratification crowed", and that I wouldnt like the repopulation because its "hard"?
I got Jedi before NGE...I am willing to be you didn't....don't talk to me about "hard". Now, imagine you go through all of the hoops and pure luck to become a Jedi, then craft your first lightsaber, and the "random stats" you get are 1-1 damage. Now, that in and of itself is bad, but imagine you open a support ticket and they tell you that they cant fix it because its a "knwon issue".....all of those very rare and expensive mats completely wasted. I still have a copy of their response in my email somewhere if you would like.
I have friends who still bemoan the loss of Tabula Rasa so I guess it must have been good. I'm impressed with the CoH reinvention called City of Titans; bi-weekly updates from the Kickstarter staff show impressive progress and an amazing amount of dedication.
City of Heroes was my first MMORPG, I made friends in that game that I still talk to, and it still hurts my heart knowing I can't login to Paragon City and soar the skies...
City of heroes/villans was probably the only MMORPG that i actually enjoyed, played on freedom server since issue 2. quit a few times, but always came back. i have tried a couple others, (champions online, star wars the old republic, and a couple others i cant remember) piont being, that is one game that i will always remember, and miss it dearly
One of the reasons why WAR failed was EA wanting to get some of the WoW crowd. It wasn't the first "WoW killer" though, far from it. At that point the phrase was already considered a joke, because many games already tried to do dethrone WoW (at least in the peoples eyes) and failed.
I can surely agree that WAR didn't deserve to be rushed.
I am glad Shadowbane made the list. While it had some technical issues, that game was conceptually so far ahead of its time, and it was an absolute blast to play. My guild and I spent countless hours planning specs of each member of the group to enable different strats. The "stackbuster" with 7 earthquaking druids and 1 wizards to port them on top of the opposing stack was the most hilarious, but there were a lot of fun ones.
I followed City of Heroes from the closed beta to the day it closed. It was a very strange but wonderful creature, one of the early instanced games it flew in the face of traditional MMO design but somehow pulled it off.
Also it had one of the best character designers, the ability to look awesome from the start and the lack of gear loot made it a very relaxed experience. I really hate that Champions failed to capture the feel of CoH.
Tabula Rasa i never really got in to as it shut down a scant few months after i managed to pick up a discount CE. To add insult to injury i had a bag stolen that held most of the physical CE items that i was bringing to a con. = P
SWG.... You poor mistreated animal. At least people remember your heyday and not your sad demise. I sadly left the game with a very bitter taste and a grudge against SoE.. Not so much for the games demise but the fact that they could not even bother to screw ID´s over like they did some other classes... We were simply ignored together with entertainers... No that is not entierly true... They did at one point straight up tell people to get a entertainer mule/bot... So i guess they were not fully forgotten.
SWG did deserve to die... It was a mess that they tried to save by making it a different mess. Had it not run out of license it would have gone in to maint-mode.
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
It was more than a year after the NGE before it reached numbers lower than pre-NGE reached. NGE actually boosted subs for an entire year. Why do you people pretend that pre-NGE was the pinnacle of gaming achievement and not the buggy and unfinished nightmare that it really was? I swear pre-NGE Galaxies fanboys are the Holocaust Deniers of the MMO genre.
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
It was more than a year after the NGE before it reached numbers lower than pre-NGE reached. NGE actually boosted subs for an entire year. Why do you people pretend that pre-NGE was the pinnacle of gaming achievement and not the buggy and unfinished nightmare that it really was? I swear pre-NGE Galaxies fanboys are the Holocaust Deniers of the MMO genre.
I was a Carbineer at launch. The HAM system to this day is probably the worst combat system ever created. Our attacks did more damage to ourselves than they did to other players if we weren't buffed out the wazoo which we had to bloody pay for to some asshat who charged an arm and a leg. The motto for the class was "Killing ourselves so you don't have to."
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
It was more than a year after the NGE before it reached numbers lower than pre-NGE reached. NGE actually boosted subs for an entire year. Why do you people pretend that pre-NGE was the pinnacle of gaming achievement and not the buggy and unfinished nightmare that it really was? I swear pre-NGE Galaxies fanboys are the Holocaust Deniers of the MMO genre.
That is BS.
Go take a look at mmochart.com or whatever it is.
SWG lost 100k subs in the 3 months after the NGE, and 50k more after that. And those were paying subs. And they were never recovered. (Note: that is paying subs.)
In 2010, the "actual individual paying sub numbers" for SWG were leaked and were only 13k.
SOE tried to dress those numbers up by including "trial accts" which paid nothing, activated veteran acts (from various vet trials) that paid nothing, and "station pass" accts many of which did not even play SWG, in the subsequent rarely discussed SWG sub numbers.
The NGE NEVER had any 200k paying subs at any time, not even close to 100k, if that were so, as you contend, the multiple massive server merges would never have been necessary.
Originally posted by Mitara Warhammer was very much yelled at because it was so extremely similar to WoW and that got many player so disappointed that they stopped playing and in the end they had to close it.SWG was just the best of them all.
You know nothing about Warhammer Online. First of all Warhammer is nothing like WoW. The pve aspect of Warhammer is all about first 12 levels in the game. From there you have to do only pvp for leveling, gear etc... Well basically for everything. Warhammer's pvp was one of a kind. A little similar to Doac but again NOTHING LIKE WOW. And Warhammer didn't closed because of the lack of sub numbers. It closed because of the copyright problems. The license agreement between Mythic and IP holder Games Workshop came to an end. And Games Workshop sold Warhammer Fantasy license to Sega. So EA had to shut it down. Even when they didn't announce the shut down issue yet, Warhammer got a very healty population. I played this game till the shut down event. Warhammer Online got a very loyal community. And trust me, EA earned a lot of money from Warhammer.
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
It was more than a year after the NGE before it reached numbers lower than pre-NGE reached. NGE actually boosted subs for an entire year. Why do you people pretend that pre-NGE was the pinnacle of gaming achievement and not the buggy and unfinished nightmare that it really was? I swear pre-NGE Galaxies fanboys are the Holocaust Deniers of the MMO genre.
That is BS.
Go take a look at mmochart.com or whatever it is.
SWG lost 100k subs in the 3 months after the NGE, and 50k more after that. And those were paying subs. And they were never recovered. (Note: that is paying subs.)
In 2010, the "actual individual paying sub numbers" for SWG were leaked and were only 13k.
SOE tried to dress those numbers up by including "trial accts" which paid nothing, activated veteran acts (from various vet trials) that paid nothing, and "station pass" accts many of which did not even play SWG, in the subsequent rarely discussed SWG sub numbers.
The NGE NEVER had any 200k paying subs at any time, not even close to 100k, if that were so, as you contend, the multiple massive server merges would never have been necessary.
That same site has WAR peaking higher than AoC is subscriptions, when both companies have stated the opposite. I wouldnt put much weight into that site.
Not to mentioning the site you quote (its actually mmodata.net) shows SWG lolsing subs before NGE, increasing when NGE hit, and not dipping below pre NGE numbers for over a year...exactly what the poster you were disagreeing with stated. If you are going to disagree with someone, dont quote a sources that "proves" him right, and you wrong
Someone should just suck it up, get past the expected eyerolls and get to work on Star Wars Galaxies II.
We'll all forgive and forget and if all(or most) of the systems and features(PRE-NGE!) are included along with some new stuff, I'm sure we'd all ride the glory train all the way to the finish.
Comments
Then you have not played many games. Yeah SWG (pre-NGE) had issues but it wasn't that bad at all. Also, the game did not loose significant numbers until the NGE. The NGE was brought about by the insane amount of whining on the forums that it was to hard to become jedi. Basically the: we want it all, easy and now crowd killed that game. You seem to be a member of that club.
More to the point though, if they had spent the time fixing the bugs and not adding content until said bugs were (mostly) eradicated the game still would have been screwed over by the instant gratification crowd that seem to locust around ruining everything.
As a side note, please stay away from The Repopulation, it is hard and awesome and you would hate it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The article ends with "Star Wars: Galaxies has always been regarded as one of the greatest achievements in MMO history, something to aspire to once again." I am sorry, but those are some very thick, "bubbles from trailor park boys" rose colored glasses there.
When its a chore just to get the game to function properly (insane popup, enemies shooting through walls floors, quest items clipping through mountains/floor, crafting sometimes eating mats and producing either broken items r not producing items at all ). these issue were present in the game till its death. IMO, the negatives outweigh the posatives.
warhammer online didnt deserve to die - nuff said!
if theyve had gone free to play- they would of made a killing in their shop! - fire the Business excec who made this descision!
The game that sold over 1 million boxes had less than 200k subs when the NGE hit. It actually rebounded to over 200k subs and didn't drop below the pre-nge numbers for over a year after the NGE released. It was spiraling toward nothingness long before Sony decided to revive it. You guys are so blinded by nostalgia it's staggering.
Mind you, it's been years upon years since the days of closed beta for WAR, so maybe I'm misremembering stuff from back then, but I was under the impression that GamesWorkshop were the ones that told Mythic it needed to be limited to 2 factions and have quest hubs?
Regardless though, I miss WAR. It needed to go F2P a year or two before shut down. But Mythic threw money into that half-assed MOBA style game. They were already selling vanity pets and stuff, so I assume the basis for F2P was there.
WAAAGH!
I find it funny that people call WAR a WoW clone, little do most know that Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game, but never got the IP license, so they came up with Warcraft.
I miss SWG and COX. I would probably still be playing both if SOE hadn't messed up SWG and COX didn't shut down. I was actually subscribed to COX for most of the time. I could just fly around town doing absolutely nothing, and have fun.
Warhammer was very much yelled at because it was so extremely similar to WoW and that got many player so disappointed that they stopped playing and in the end they had to close it.
SWG was just the best of them all.
I talk about all the bugs and broken things in the game while never once mentioning the grind or it being "hard", and you respond to me calling me the "instant gratification crowed", and that I wouldnt like the repopulation because its "hard"?
I got Jedi before NGE...I am willing to be you didn't....don't talk to me about "hard". Now, imagine you go through all of the hoops and pure luck to become a Jedi, then craft your first lightsaber, and the "random stats" you get are 1-1 damage. Now, that in and of itself is bad, but imagine you open a support ticket and they tell you that they cant fix it because its a "knwon issue".....all of those very rare and expensive mats completely wasted. I still have a copy of their response in my email somewhere if you would like.
"Which MMOs from your past do you think were killed before they deserved to be?"
In chronological order: Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, CoH, and soon Vanguard.
The rest on the list? Well deserved... In my opinion of course, just for the fanboi's sake
Mystery Bounty
One of the reasons why WAR failed was EA wanting to get some of the WoW crowd. It wasn't the first "WoW killer" though, far from it. At that point the phrase was already considered a joke, because many games already tried to do dethrone WoW (at least in the peoples eyes) and failed.
I can surely agree that WAR didn't deserve to be rushed.
I followed City of Heroes from the closed beta to the day it closed. It was a very strange but wonderful creature, one of the early instanced games it flew in the face of traditional MMO design but somehow pulled it off.
Also it had one of the best character designers, the ability to look awesome from the start and the lack of gear loot made it a very relaxed experience. I really hate that Champions failed to capture the feel of CoH.
Tabula Rasa i never really got in to as it shut down a scant few months after i managed to pick up a discount CE. To add insult to injury i had a bag stolen that held most of the physical CE items that i was bringing to a con. = P
SWG.... You poor mistreated animal. At least people remember your heyday and not your sad demise. I sadly left the game with a very bitter taste and a grudge against SoE.. Not so much for the games demise but the fact that they could not even bother to screw ID´s over like they did some other classes... We were simply ignored together with entertainers... No that is not entierly true... They did at one point straight up tell people to get a entertainer mule/bot... So i guess they were not fully forgotten.
SWG did deserve to die... It was a mess that they tried to save by making it a different mess. Had it not run out of license it would have gone in to maint-mode.
This have been a good conversation
CoX
My all time favorite mmorpg.
It's demise was sudden; they were about to release the latest update, and I was planning out a new character with the powerset to be added.
Then *bang* world exploded. game over, man!
It still brings a tear to my eye.
SWG was maimed and deformed by SOE long before it ever closed.
After the NGE, SWG was a pile of alpha quality crap code that was not worth playing or paying for. 90% of a player base does not quit for nothing, and it was not over "the principle" of SOE changing the game, or any of the other stuff SOE did along the way. It was rewritten into a bad, linear, unfun, profoundly broken pile of garbage. And one not worth paying for.
So, of that list, SWG most definitely deserved the bullet it got in the head behind the barn, and a mercy it was.
It was more than a year after the NGE before it reached numbers lower than pre-NGE reached. NGE actually boosted subs for an entire year. Why do you people pretend that pre-NGE was the pinnacle of gaming achievement and not the buggy and unfinished nightmare that it really was? I swear pre-NGE Galaxies fanboys are the Holocaust Deniers of the MMO genre.
Amen brother.
That is BS.
Go take a look at mmochart.com or whatever it is.
SWG lost 100k subs in the 3 months after the NGE, and 50k more after that. And those were paying subs. And they were never recovered. (Note: that is paying subs.)
In 2010, the "actual individual paying sub numbers" for SWG were leaked and were only 13k.
SOE tried to dress those numbers up by including "trial accts" which paid nothing, activated veteran acts (from various vet trials) that paid nothing, and "station pass" accts many of which did not even play SWG, in the subsequent rarely discussed SWG sub numbers.
The NGE NEVER had any 200k paying subs at any time, not even close to 100k, if that were so, as you contend, the multiple massive server merges would never have been necessary.
You know nothing about Warhammer Online. First of all Warhammer is nothing like WoW. The pve aspect of Warhammer is all about first 12 levels in the game. From there you have to do only pvp for leveling, gear etc... Well basically for everything. Warhammer's pvp was one of a kind. A little similar to Doac but again NOTHING LIKE WOW. And Warhammer didn't closed because of the lack of sub numbers. It closed because of the copyright problems. The license agreement between Mythic and IP holder Games Workshop came to an end. And Games Workshop sold Warhammer Fantasy license to Sega. So EA had to shut it down. Even when they didn't announce the shut down issue yet, Warhammer got a very healty population. I played this game till the shut down event. Warhammer Online got a very loyal community. And trust me, EA earned a lot of money from Warhammer.
That same site has WAR peaking higher than AoC is subscriptions, when both companies have stated the opposite. I wouldnt put much weight into that site.
Someone should just suck it up, get past the expected eyerolls and get to work on Star Wars Galaxies II.
We'll all forgive and forget and if all(or most) of the systems and features(PRE-NGE!) are included along with some new stuff, I'm sure we'd all ride the glory train all the way to the finish.
My wallet awaits!:)