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Free-to-play ?...No, just no.

24

Comments

  • Did they really say they are going F2P? I been watching this game as of late but if that's the case, I'm outta here.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    I for one just paid for the $150 and am downloading now. 

    For the first time in my gaming life I actually paused at the price but to be fair my hobby (gaming) is still cheaper than any of my friends hobbies my a long shot.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Originally posted by Rylah

    Dear OP,

    last time I checked Trion still resisted the urge to force people at gunpoint to buy their alpha/beta/gamma/whatevergreekletter access. All those people did it because they wanted to. I know, to accept the freedom of others to act stupid is hard, but just assume they are all spoiled rich kids with more money than brains and your self esteem is ok again. It is dead wrong, but you will probably still feel better.

    The same goes for F2P with cash-shop as a general concept. It exists because it works and because people spend money in it. Oftentimes more than they spent with subs. And believe it or not, the companies behind those games are there to make a profit. Ok, sometimes they lie you in the face by pretending it is about your fun first and foremost. But yeah, the world is evil and marketing is the most wicked of them all. They are there to make a profit and they give a rats ass about your fun as long as you pay up and shut up. It doesn't matter if it is f2p, b2p, sub...  In fact some bright people already looked thrhough the scheme and made out that f2p is nothing but an extended demo with low monetization for a large part and a very high monetization for a small part  of the players who stay after they played the free demo features.

    The net result is that games like Lotro and DnD online are still running since after their transformation from sub to "free" they got profitable. See the scheme? Companies like profits. They feed on them!

    So just relax, play the free demos and spend money if and when you actually like to - and accept that other people have the exact same rights, if you like their motivations or not.

    Life can really be so easy.

     

     

     

     

    True, but it's that one freeloader who goes from 0 to max without paying a cent who has to be accounted for.

  • Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I for one just paid for the $150 and am downloading now. 

    For the first time in my gaming life I actually paused at the price but to be fair my hobby (gaming) is still cheaper than any of my friends hobbies my a long shot.

     

    What were the major draw-ins for you? The fact that I'm now reading it's going F2P has me wanting to tuck tail and run lolololol.

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by An4thor
    Pointless thread is pointless..there are other 123124 threads about the same thing do some researches.

    Do they talk about the other 200 Asian games not charging $150 ?

    First of all.. it may be a asian game.. but it is a US publisher.

    Secondly, all those 200 Asian games released before ArcheAge. Why does that matter? I tell you why. Because now charging for Alpha und Beta Access is the new trend, and a few years later everyone will do it. At first it was used from Kickstarter crowd funded game, to give anything for higher pledges.. most of them took Beta and Alpha Access as reward for pledging. Then some smarty-pants thought that they can use it for normal games, too. And demanded(as it was usual for crowdfunding) high entry fees for Beta and Alpha and called it "Founder Pack"(right.. SOE with Landmark).. and now Trion thought that would be a good idea for ArcheAge, too. And therefore they charge it.. because it was proven that "enough" people are willingly to pay that price... even for a F2P game.

    And finally Trion is/was almost bankrupt.. they need every single Cent they can get Upfront.

     

    And about F2P.. ArcheAge is not really F2P.. it is Freemium.. it means.. you can test it for free, but if you want to play it seriously you have to pay the Sub. The Cash Shop comes just in as a addition to generate some extra money, similar to GW2, and will at least hopefully not that P2W as some others... but time will tell.

     

    Do i like that trend? No, not really. Does that change anything? No, not really. Do i expect that almost any new game will do anything like that? You can bet on it. And it will not even matter if it is from Asia or Not, if it is F2P or not..

     

    Edit:

    And another sidenote on F2P:

    Actually we got two new title going the P2P route again(Wildstar and ESO), but still the question remains how long they will be P2P before switching to F2P as soooo many games before them.

    How many games are at the moment P2P? World of Warcraft? And some very old games like DaoC? Hell.. not even EvE is really P2P. You don't need to buy the game, and you don't need to buy a subscription, as long as you pay it with ingame money.. and you could actually earn that much ingame money in your 14 day trial. Though it would be somewhat of a grind.

    With other words... get used to F2P, because most likely you will not get anything else. Though Freemium games like ArcheAge, where you actually need to subscribe will most probably the majority within the Quality or AAA MMORPGs.

    And in all honestly now to charge for Beta and Alpha Access is basicly as it would be P2P with guaranteed transition to F2P within the first year.. it is economical almost brilliant. Because the die hard fans, those which can't wait will buy into it, as they would preorder(with beta access) within the former model. And all undecided can try it out for free.. withit the entry barrier is very low. But if you are interested you have to pay subscription.(maximum revenue). As i said.. economical brilliant. And therefore everyone will use that model.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by BlueTiger13
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I for one just paid for the $150 and am downloading now. 

    For the first time in my gaming life I actually paused at the price but to be fair my hobby (gaming) is still cheaper than any of my friends hobbies my a long shot.

     

    What were the major draw-ins for you? The fact that I'm now reading it's going F2P has me wanting to tuck tail and run lolololol.

    for me its all about the crafting, ship combat and housing. all which look really extensive. 

    oh and siege mechanics

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • TankYou88TankYou88 Member Posts: 310
    I enjoy how the OP is ridiculing a game he never played or looked into at all. Gratz.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by BlueTiger13
    Did they really say they are going F2P? I been watching this game as of late but if that's the case, I'm outta here.

    So you would of paid $60 for a box and $15 for no restrictions but you wont download it for free and pay $15 to remove the restrictions. Makes sense to me.

  • LanfeaLanfea Member UncommonPosts: 223

    rumor is that trion payed 30 million for the publishing rights. also they have to give xl games 20% of the monthly revenue for running the game and for future developments. with the founder pack offer they hoped to find enough people to refinance this investment in a short amount of time. without these packs and only the f2p payment model they probably would need around a year to balance the 30 million (if they are lucky). same happend with neverwinter. cryptic and pwi invested 40 million dollar and got 20 million out of selling founder packs. to sell founder packs is like selling retail versions of a game, but with the advantage for the company that they can earn 50, 100 or even 150 $ from a customer without giving him a clue what he is paying for. and if the product isn't what you expected at release, well, no payback. uh, the big companies really like those naive customers.

     

  • maybebakedmaybebaked Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I'm not playing the alpha. $150 is telling me something about the credibility of this company.

    Free-to-play is telling me more.......I don't care how good this game is.  The first thing that comes to me is this "F2P cash shop".  For me this crushes everything.  Alpha players get $75 in cash shop points ?......This makes it sound important that others will need to dump $75 real cash !

      

    Unrelated to F2P :

    How come we have at least 200 Asian mmos released without an alpha $150 cash grab, yet this one has one.....All of a sudden, a company needs UP FRONT MONEY ?

    Half is about game play, the other half is about Accounting.  The second half, no one knows anything about. This second half could easily destroy any hopes of this game !

    In this case 1+1 does not = 2......It's just not adding up :(

     

    Why do we need to keep having this conversation? Seriously. If you don't like it, don't buy it.  Star Trek Online has a $160 pack.  Get over it. Companies like to sell things to make money. The Simpsons: Tapped Out offers a $200 pack of donuts. Welcome to capitalism. 

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Lanfea

    rumor is that trion payed 30 million for the publishing rights. also they have to give xl games 20% of the monthly revenue for running the game and for future developments. with the founder pack offer they hoped to find enough people to refinance this investment in a short amount of time. without these packs and only the f2p payment model they probably would need around a year to balance the 30 million (if they are lucky). same happend with neverwinter. cryptic and pwi invested 40 million dollar and got 20 million out of selling founder packs. to sell founder packs is like selling retail versions of a game, but with the advantage for the company that they can earn 50, 100 or even 150 $ from a customer without giving him a clue what he is paying for. and if the product isn't what you expected at release, well, no payback. uh, the big companies really like those naive customers. 

     

    and your cell phone is likely made with highly questionable labor.

    so?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by BlueTiger13

     

    True, but it's that one freeloader who goes from 0 to max without paying a cent who has to be accounted for.

    There is not one "f2p" game out there where you can play seriously in any way without paying. Besides the cash shop which may only include fluff items you have restrictions all over the place which are fine for testing and very casual gameplay but not if you play the game with a group and want to achieve anything. Last time I logged in to SWTOR (a long time ago, so might have changed by now) without the "sub" you couldn't enter more than 3 or so battlegrounds a day, couldn't equip epics, had prohibitive lockouts from dungeons etc.

    Trion is much more lenient in Rift, but the advantages of premium are still substantial. Same will go for ArcheAge. You can play the game without artificial restrictions in lockouts or quest packs like in SWTOR or Lotro but for anything beyond testing and casual soloplay you will need the Labour Point increase of the sub.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Rylah
    Originally posted by BlueTiger13

     

    True, but it's that one freeloader who goes from 0 to max without paying a cent who has to be accounted for.

    There is not one "f2p" game out there where you can play seriously in any way without paying. Besides the cash shop which may only include fluff items you have restrictions all over the place which are fine for testing and very casual gameplay but not if you play the game with a group and want to achieve anything. Last time I logged in to SWTOR (a long time ago, so might have changed by now) without the "sub" you couldn't enter more than 3 or so battlegrounds a day, couldn't equip epics, had prohibitive lockouts from dungeons etc.

    Trion is much more lenient in Rift, but the advantages of premium are still substantial. Same will go for ArcheAge. You can play the game without artificial restrictions in lockouts or quest packs like in SWTOR or Lotro but for anything beyond testing and casual soloplay you will need the Labour Point increase of the sub.

    kinda like golf

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • sassoonsssassoonss Member UncommonPosts: 1,128

    I payed $150 and it was the mmo money well spent

    I regulary play 2 hours everyday after work

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297

    Trion have the best FTP model out there at the moment with Rift.

    That's all that needs to be said about this. Until they prove otherwise, I'm not worried about ArcheAge.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • stealth977stealth977 Member UncommonPosts: 17

    I played this game for months and I really find this discussion nonsense. First of all, 150$ for alpha test is easily justifiable since it is not the game itself that is ALPHA, it is the localization that is alpha. So you have a fully developed and established game to play, the other perks in the package also pays you back part of the money as sub and cash shop money and IMO definitely worth it.

    Second, about the FTP : No matter how Trion implements it, ArcheAge's system is designed such a way that FTP becomes just a boring DEMO in short time. I will not go into lack of housing and crafting in FTP that is not what everyone wants, but, main problem with ArcheAge FTP is that your sources of income is greatly reduced if you dont sub. I can not give an exact amount but It would be a safe guess that a sub account could earn in game gold 5x or maybe 10x more than a FTP it is that reduced. So why is income important? Because ArcheAge is a GEAR BASED game. If I have T3s and you are in T2s I should be a damn worst ever player for you to beat me. If I have T3s and you have T1s expect to loose a 3 vs 1 fight against me...

    In ArcheAge due to random nature of crafting it is too costly to get T2 and T3 GEAR. The cost is not just the currency but also time as well since you will need Work Force to craft which accumulates slowly (and it doesnt accumulate if you are FTP). So the resulting T2s and T3s are damn too expensive, expect to craft/trade for at least a month to buy 1 piece of T3...

    So, as FTP do not even expect to have good gear, only gear you can get are free high end dungeon gear that is equal to crafted T1s... This also means its highly unlikely that FTP can be used to gather and sell gold...

    At that point the game has a downside of becoming Pay To Win. Although you cant buy anything powerful from cash shop (they are mostly cosmetic and gear like the non cosmetic stuff can be earned in game as well) but you can buy Work Force pies from the cash shop which can be sold for in game gold or at least can be used to speed up your crafting/trade/leveling process... So people who dont mind spending huge sums of real money can get high end gear quickly and dominate the game...

    All that being said, ArcheAge is a very satisfying game, IMO there is enough stuff in game to make you play a year without getting bored...

     

     

     

  • XatshXatsh Member UncommonPosts: 341
    Originally posted by stealth977

    I played this game for months and I really find this discussion nonsense. First of all, 150$ for alpha test is easily justifiable since it is not the game itself that is ALPHA, it is the localization that is alpha. So you have a fully developed and established game to play, the other perks in the package also pays you back part of the money as sub and cash shop money and IMO definitely worth it.

    Second, about the FTP : No matter how Trion implements it, ArcheAge's system is designed such a way that FTP becomes just a boring DEMO in short time. I will not go into lack of housing and crafting in FTP that is not what everyone wants, but, main problem with ArcheAge FTP is that your sources of income is greatly reduced if you dont sub. I can not give an exact amount but It would be a safe guess that a sub account could earn in game gold 5x or maybe 10x more than a FTP it is that reduced. So why is income important? Because ArcheAge is a GEAR BASED game. If I have T3s and you are in T2s I should be a damn worst ever player for you to beat me. If I have T3s and you have T1s expect to loose a 3 vs 1 fight against me...

    In ArcheAge due to random nature of crafting it is too costly to get T2 and T3 GEAR. The cost is not just the currency but also time as well since you will need Work Force to craft which accumulates slowly (and it doesnt accumulate if you are FTP). So the resulting T2s and T3s are damn too expensive, expect to craft/trade for at least a month to buy 1 piece of T3...

    So, as FTP do not even expect to have good gear, only gear you can get are free high end dungeon gear that is equal to crafted T1s... This also means its highly unlikely that FTP can be used to gather and sell gold...

    At that point the game has a downside of becoming Pay To Win. Although you cant buy anything powerful from cash shop (they are mostly cosmetic and gear like the non cosmetic stuff can be earned in game as well) but you can buy Work Force pies from the cash shop which can be sold for in game gold or at least can be used to speed up your crafting/trade/leveling process... So people who dont mind spending huge sums of real money can get high end gear quickly and dominate the game...

    All that being said, ArcheAge is a very satisfying game, IMO there is enough stuff in game to make you play a year without getting bored...

     

     

     

    Did they announce you can sell the Labor Potions? Only thing I remember they stated you can sell are the tax certificates which let you pay for land taxes to keep your farm/house.

    Also labor potions are on a long cooldown do they cannot be spammed.

    But most this post I agree on.

    Yes they are a P2W element, honestly they need to increase labor  gain and remove the potions. It is a pure money grab 100%. It is the thing that most people are against.

    ARcheage is not a f2p game no matter how they spin it. You have 3 optoins

    1) F2P: Demo version, extremly limited with massive barriers put in your way.  You cannot even compete with someone paying. they will progress 6-10times faster then you in both leveling and obtaining gear. No AH access, no labor gain offline 1/2th the labor online. Unable to pay taxes (Sounds good but you cannot own land without paying first)

    Boats and houses cost a ton of materials, since you cannot use the AH at all. Expect it to take you weeks to do what someone can do in days.

    2) P2P: Patron Status: Allows for standard game play no locks in place. This is required to play AA outside the quest hub grind.

    3) P2W: Potions and Certificates: People willing to spend more money then the start subscription can earn ingame gold for selling land tax payment (Cost labor to obtain ingame). They can get bonus labor every X hours which can be used to earn money and level classes and professions faster. People who do this daily will get a large boost over time compaired to those only paying the sub fee (Patron Status).

    Also there are other potential issues. They reduced mana gain while out of combat alot. It will be interesting to see if they offer stuff in the cashshop to counter that change.

     

    I have no problem with 2, free loaders should have a massive disadvantage.

    #3 is the current issue with AA. They are crossing too far into the p2w area. AA is all about the economy in the end, it is a core element to the game. The cash shop is giving people who pay extra above the patron status an unfair advantage bigtimes over those who do not, hence p2w.

    I am not a fan of F2p games for this reason. Too many time does the hardcore/serious player have to front the bill for the free to play people. AA I see as no different. Thank god the game is just that good though, or I would of considered quiting due to this alone. First good non-linear mmo made in years.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Gonna try this game out. If this delivers on my expectations I have what to unwind in after a few hours in ED. If not I got more than enough choices besides it.

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Trion have the best FTP model out there at the moment with Rift.

    That's all that needs to be said about this. Until they prove otherwise, I'm not worried about ArcheAge.

    I wouldn't start comparing this to Rift just yet, as from the sound of it there's quite a bit of gating when it comes to this one, Rift's F2P doesn't really seem to push one toward a Sub, AA seems to do that.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • stealth977stealth977 Member UncommonPosts: 17
    Originally posted by Xatsh
    Did they announce you can sell the Labor Potions? Only thing I remember they stated you can sell are the tax certificates which let you pay for land taxes to keep your farm/house.

    Also labor potions are on a long cooldown do they cannot be spammed.

     

    Before I quit, they were taking the path to make them not sellable, so I dunno whats the situation now. Anyway, you dont have to sell the labor points, there are some crafted items which are in too much demand. So simply you can craft those using your labor points and gain a lot of gold. The main point is LP is the most important aspect of the game and you can buy LP cakes/potions in cash shop.

    #2 the cooldown is quite nonsense IMO. If they havent changed it LP POOL is shared between your toons but cooldown is not shared. Just create 3 more toons and use cakes/potions from each toon once an hour which nets too much LP per hour for your main....

  • An4thorAn4thor Member Posts: 524
    Originally posted by stealth977
    Originally posted by Xatsh
    Did they announce you can sell the Labor Potions? Only thing I remember they stated you can sell are the tax certificates which let you pay for land taxes to keep your farm/house.

    Also labor potions are on a long cooldown do they cannot be spammed.

     

    Before I quit, they were taking the path to make them not sellable, so I dunno whats the situation now. Anyway, you dont have to sell the labor points, there are some crafted items which are in too much demand. So simply you can craft those using your labor points and gain a lot of gold. The main point is LP is the most important aspect of the game and you can buy LP cakes/potions in cash shop.

    #2 the cooldown is quite nonsense IMO. If they havent changed it LP POOL is shared between your toons but cooldown is not shared. Just create 3 more toons and use cakes/potions from each toon once an hour which nets too much LP per hour for your main....

    They haven't decided anything for those potion yet, they won't be in the shop for this beta either.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,030

    Important

    Please explain this :

    Swordsman, a soon to be release Asian MMO by Perfect World Entertainment will be F2P. 

    THIS GAME IS NOT CHARGING $150 !!!!!!

     

    ArchAge or Swordsman, good or bad whats the difference ?

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Important

    Please explain this :

    Swordsman, a soon to be release Asian MMO by Perfect World Entertainment will be F2P. 

    THIS GAME IS NOT CHARGING $150 !!!!!!

     

    ArchAge or Swordsman, good or bad whats the difference ?

    They're charging $60 for a hero pack. Do you need someone to hold your hand and explain why some things cost more than other now ?

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Member UncommonPosts: 1,010
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Important

    Please explain this :

    Swordsman, a soon to be release Asian MMO by Perfect World Entertainment will be F2P. 

    THIS GAME IS NOT CHARGING $150 !!!!!!

     

    ArchAge or Swordsman, good or bad whats the difference ?

    They're charging $60 for a hero pack. Do you need someone to hold your hand and explain why some things cost more than other now ?

    And if it wasn't for the consumer pushing back, the price would have been $120

     

    He's no more at fault than the company you're defending. It's two sides of the system of price balance.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Important

    Please explain this :

    Swordsman, a soon to be release Asian MMO by Perfect World Entertainment will be F2P. 

    THIS GAME IS NOT CHARGING $150 !!!!!!

     

    ArchAge or Swordsman, good or bad whats the difference ?

    They're charging $60 for a hero pack. Do you need someone to hold your hand and explain why some things cost more than other now ?

    And if it wasn't for the consumer pushing back, the price would have been $120

     

    He's no more at fault than the company you're defending. It's two sides of the system of price balance.

    I'm not defending anyone. He's acting all surprised that a company would charge $150 for a f2p game. Obviously the people paying saw value in it so they bought it. This is right in there with I don't like it so no one else should. Something all too common around here.

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