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Things I wished were different

ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195

I have followed this game some since they announced it. However I have some questions which I hope you can answer.

* Game looks to be focus on PvP and not so much about PvE. Will there be some PvE servers also which you can enjoy as I hate PvP as it's all about ganking other players as in Darkfall?

*  I don't like when you get experience even if you are not logged in. So will it be equal frustrating system as in EVE, where you will get a message that it will take one or two weeks until your skill increase. It doesn't matter how much I play. I will still not be able to skill up (level) any faster. That encouraged me to log off and cancel my subscription. Which I also did. I think also there will be a risk that the servers will feel empty if no one actively plays they game. People will just login once a week to check their new exp so they can buy a new skill increase. After that they will more or less logout.

* Full loot... What's the point getting better gear in this game? Will it be the same as in Darkfall where lots of players run around naked so they can risk free gank those who have little health who PvE and take all their stuffs. Do players plan to only have their nice gear in their bank just so they don't loose it if they by misstake turn their head in wrong direction. This is at least what I think will happen.

 

Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,108
    why are you following this game, again?

    image

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    why are you following this game, again?

    Because it's a game based on Pathfinder (D&D).

  • lugallugal Member UncommonPosts: 669
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    why are you following this game, again?

    Because it's a game based on Pathfinder (D&D).

    Nothing wrong with the game or the features they are going to put in. The problem is you OP. They will not change things to suit you, so move on. Also, buying a game based on the IP is really dumb, see SWG, SWTOR, Warhammer as examples. Buy games for the gameplay and features.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,108

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    image

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by lugal
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    why are you following this game, again?

    Because it's a game based on Pathfinder (D&D).

    Nothing wrong with the game or the features they are going to put in. The problem is you OP. They will not change things to suit you, so move on. Also, buying a game based on the IP is really dumb, see SWG, SWTOR, Warhammer as examples. Buy games for the gameplay and features.

    I just wanted to check if they have done something different than what I wrote about.

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    I guess I am looking for a "sandbox" game with PvE focus and not a themepark game which I am so tired of. :)

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,555
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    OP I suggest minecraft

    I'd actually suggest Trove as it's actually online with persistant server and an MMO.

    Check out Friday's stream for latest info on game so you can decide for yourself - you can grab a free key every time they patch (which is twice a week) on reddit forums, the key is included at the bottom of the patchnotes until it's used up - once used up it's removed from the patch notes.

    http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds/b/544208653

     

    The patch notes are posted here - http://www.reddit.com/r/Trove/ top of reddit forum - once the new patch is up - the free key is included at the bottom of the patch notes (until it's used up - it's a multi use key)

     

     

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,108
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    I guess I am looking for a "sandbox" game with PvE focus and not a themepark game which I am so tired of. :)

    Sandbox PVE games exist. survival games.

    Sandbox MMO PVE games...not so much.

     

    builder MMOs like Landmark arent PvE. they arent "versus" anything. I suppose MMOBG would fit them. 

     

    people refer to them as PvE because 1) have no PvP and 2) it's either PvP or PvE. this is false, they're in fact neither.

     

     

    image

  • Fanndis_GoldbraidFanndis_Goldbraid Member UncommonPosts: 53

    There is a strong focus on PvP, but the times and places where consensual PvP can be conducted will be known. If you want to stay in town and craft, do so! There is a tiny chance some bad guy could come into town and attack you, but if he/she is doing that and your PvP window is closed the guards will crush them. (The larger your sponsor settlement is the larger the PvP window for that settlement is...grow large and benefit, but there is a price to pay in the larger PvP window).

     

    It is not full loot. There is to be a system called "threading" where characters can thread items up to a limit. Low quality/starter gear can almost all be threaded (i.e. a full suit of armor and a weapon perhaps), but as your gear improves the more threads it take to keep that item from getting looted upon death. So a Tier 3 wondrous staff of Smiting (made up item) might take all your threads. If you are killed by another player, your corpse will reveal about 50-75% of your carried gear (the remainder is destroyed...right now 25% is destroyed, but it is up in the air), but your Wondrous Staff does not appear in the loot pile, because it is threaded.

     

    Unlike Darkfall, there are consequences for a stranger ganking you in the wilderness. Their reputation will go down, and their alignment will become more evil. There will be factions you can join so you can fight opposing faction members with no penalty. But most of the PvP opportunites are just that; they can be avoided for the most part by limiting your exposure to them.

     

    Going it alone will result in frequent and painful deaths. It is not a theme park. It will be mostly group content and PvP. If that is not your thing you may not enjoy it.

     

    (EDIT: Ryan Dancey, CEO of Goblinworks, has flatly stated he is not competing with WoW. He is creating a new model where actions have consequences, players can do as they like and suffer the repercussions to a degree, but outright griefing will not be tolerated. He posts on the forums regularly, which is unusual for a developer to do. Big companies don't do this. Goblinworks is a small indie shop and putting their product out incrementally. The Alpha has started and the Early Enrollment starts soon (late summer/early fall 2014). If you have any interest in Pathfinder check it out. There are many PFS players, and even a PFS settlement in Emerald Lodge at the foot of the Emerald Spire.)

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,150
    Originally posted by Elmberry

    I have followed this game some since they announced it. However I have some questions which I hope you can answer.

    * Game looks to be focus on PvP and not so much about PvE. Will there be some PvE servers also which you can enjoy as I hate PvP as it's all about ganking other players as in Darkfall? 

    *  I don't like when you get experience even if you are not logged in. So will it be equal frustrating system as in EVE, where you will get a message that it will take one or two weeks until your skill increase. It doesn't matter how much I play. I will still not be able to skill up (level) any faster. That encouraged me to log off and cancel my subscription. Which I also did. I think also there will be a risk that the servers will feel empty if no one actively plays they game. People will just login once a week to check their new exp so they can buy a new skill increase. After that they will more or less logout.

    * Full loot... What's the point getting better gear in this game? Will it be the same as in Darkfall where lots of players run around naked so they can risk free gank those who have little health who PvE and take all their stuffs. Do players plan to only have their nice gear in their bank just so they don't loose it if they by misstake turn their head in wrong direction. This is at least what I think will happen.

     

    There will only be one server like EvE.  It is not "PvP focused" but much of the game will involve PvP.  This is not  murder simulator like Darkfall or Mortal Online.  This is based on Pathfinder and there is actual alignment and repercussions  for actions outside that alignment.  There are many ways to play the game, and there is an incentive for even Bandits to do things like allow a caravan to pass in return for money.  There will be relative safe areas that folks can play in and roads that will be patrolled by guards as well as players.

     

    Yes you will get XP all the time, logged in or not, but you need to perform actions in game to open up skills to spend that XP on.  You cannot just log in after 3 months and have a great character.

     

    It's not full loot.  I believe that you can lose one item when killed in PvP.  You can also bind items to yourself so that they cannot be lost.  I think I read that the better your reputation in game, the more items that can be bound.  This is one of those areas that differentiates PFO from the more common murder simulators.

     

    There will also be a full fledged bounty system.

     

    From my perspective they are trying to bring a dangerous world to life, but put some controls in to limit the number of psychotic serial killers.

     

    EDIT:  the post above is probably more accurate about the loot.  I haven't kept up on it.

     

     

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  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    I guess I am looking for a "sandbox" game with PvE focus and not a themepark game which I am so tired of. :)

    Are you sure of that? Because reading your OP, your main focus seems to be progression(and by that mainly character progression), gear and level/skill.. in sandboxes can be some character progression, but it is by no means the main focus. It is more about social progression(community building, social interactions), reputation progression(more or less another kind of social progression, but also becoming more rich, becoming more influent, which is more is mix of social progression and ingame progression, but not really bound to your character(like skills or gear).

    Themeparks are usually a lot more focused on character progression.. maybe, just a guess, you would even more look for a oldschool themepark like EverQuest, where the focus is character progression, too. But not that linear and casual as modern themeparks are.

    Or are you really interested in "sandbox" gameplay, are you interested in interacting with the world and the community to build/represent something? Because, that is more or less the main focus in a sandbox game.

    Though, there is some character progression in Pathfinder Online, there is not only time based progression(like in EvE), but more a mix of both, time based and ingame based.. however it is not really the main focus of Pathfinder, nor of any Sandbox i could remember.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,555
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    I guess I am looking for a "sandbox" game with PvE focus and not a themepark game which I am so tired of. :)

    Sandbox PVE games exist. survival games.

    Sandbox MMO PVE games...not so much.

     

    builder MMOs like Landmark arent PvE. they arent "versus" anything. I suppose MMOBG would fit them. 

     

    people refer to them as PvE because 1) have no PvP and 2) it's either PvP or PvE. this is false, they're in fact neither.

     

     

     

    Sandbox PvE games exist - like I said - check out Trove - here's a video of the build from a few days ago (there's been a patch to this already - the game is patched twice a week)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtMkqxB2d-4

     

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by Fanndis_Goldbraid

    It is not full loot. There is to be a system called "threading" where characters can thread items up to a limit. Low quality/starter gear can almost all be threaded (i.e. a full suit of armor and a weapon perhaps), but as your gear improves the more threads it take to keep that item from getting looted upon death. So a Tier 3 wondrous staff of Smiting (made up item) might take all your threads. If you are killed by another player, your corpse will reveal about 50-75% of your carried gear (the remainder is destroyed...right now 25% is destroyed, but it is up in the air), but your Wondrous Staff does not appear in the loot pile, because it is threaded.

     

    Thanks for answer my question about the loot system. However I think a system where you can only thread one item (if it's powerful) is a not so well thought system. If you for example are lucky to get a powerful item, why should I equip other good ones if I can't thread them also or should I just have them in my bank.

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I understand.

     

    that's actually a very strong reason. Still...it may not be what you'd like it to be. At its core sandboxes need to control inflation. In order to keep you building in the sandbox, stuff must be destroyed. otherwise you'd run out of sand if all your castles were permanent.

     

    in Themeparks this is done in a very subtle way.

     

    AH fee: 5%.

    raid consumable crafting: Add an ingredient from vendors for 2g. times 10,000 flasks drank per day, that's 150,000 leaving the economy each week.

    repair costs...small...times every character in game per death...huge.

     

    in sandboxes devs don't have a very strong answer yet.

    I guess I am looking for a "sandbox" game with PvE focus and not a themepark game which I am so tired of. :)

    Sandbox PVE games exist. survival games.

    Sandbox MMO PVE games...not so much.

     

    builder MMOs like Landmark arent PvE. they arent "versus" anything. I suppose MMOBG would fit them. 

     

    people refer to them as PvE because 1) have no PvP and 2) it's either PvP or PvE. this is false, they're in fact neither.

     

     

     

    Sandbox PvE games exist - like I said - check out Trove - here's a video of the build from a few days ago (there's been a patch to this already - the game is patched twice a week)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtMkqxB2d-4

     

    I get headache by looking at the ugly graphic of Trove. I prefer more realistic graphic like in this game, VSoH, EQ, etc...

  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by Elmberry

    I have followed this game some since they announced it. However I have some questions which I hope you can answer.

    * Game looks to be focus on PvP and not so much about PvE. Will there be some PvE servers also which you can enjoy as I hate PvP as it's all about ganking other players as in Darkfall? 

    *  I don't like when you get experience even if you are not logged in. So will it be equal frustrating system as in EVE, where you will get a message that it will take one or two weeks until your skill increase. It doesn't matter how much I play. I will still not be able to skill up (level) any faster. That encouraged me to log off and cancel my subscription. Which I also did. I think also there will be a risk that the servers will feel empty if no one actively plays they game. People will just login once a week to check their new exp so they can buy a new skill increase. After that they will more or less logout.

    * Full loot... What's the point getting better gear in this game? Will it be the same as in Darkfall where lots of players run around naked so they can risk free gank those who have little health who PvE and take all their stuffs. Do players plan to only have their nice gear in their bank just so they don't loose it if they by misstake turn their head in wrong direction. This is at least what I think will happen.

     

    There will only be one server like EvE.  It is not "PvP focused" but much of the game will involve PvP.  This is not  murder simulator like Darkfall or Mortal Online.  This is based on Pathfinder and there is actual alignment and repercussions  for actions outside that alignment.  There are many ways to play the game, and there is an incentive for even Bandits to do things like allow a caravan to pass in return for money.  There will be relative safe areas that folks can play in and roads that will be patrolled by guards as well as players.

     

    Yes you will get XP all the time, logged in or not, but you need to perform actions in game to open up skills to spend that XP on.  You cannot just log in after 3 months and have a great character.

     

    It's not full loot.  I believe that you can lose one item when killed in PvP.  You can also bind items to yourself so that they cannot be lost.  I think I read that the better your reputation in game, the more items that can be bound.  This is one of those areas that differentiates PFO from the more common murder simulators.

     

    There will also be a full fledged bounty system.

     

    From my perspective they are trying to bring a dangerous world to life, but put some controls in to limit the number of psychotic serial killers.

     

    EDIT:  the post above is probably more accurate about the loot.  I haven't kept up on it.

     

     

    Thanks for answering my questions. :)

  • Fanndis_GoldbraidFanndis_Goldbraid Member UncommonPosts: 53

    The developers want players to make hard choices. In some games, take Darkfall: Unholy Wars, getting ganked while gathering is common, so most players gather naked with only 1 or 2 gathering tools. If they die they lose some mats and a crappy tool. In PFO you can thread what is really important, but still should not go far alone because you will eventually be a target. Know it in advance and decide what to do....gear up, or take crappy gear you can lose except your threaded item(s).

     

    Ryan has said many times the game is being designed to crate "meaningful human interaction". So, when gathering have guards, if you are caravanning goods to market, have a lot of guards. Want to defend your settlement? Create an army with structure, logistics, communications, training, a workable hierarchy. All important choices to make.

     

    The alternative is to resub to WoW and grind honor. PFO is not competing with WoW. It will be a slow growth game with a dedicated player base who wants their decisions to mean something.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    How do you really create a good PVE sandbox environment?  I've actually been thinking about that for a while now. I can see making a good social atmosphere, I can see a decent crafting system... with player dependance.  PVP as well...

    Yet I've never really seen an example of an actual PVE sandbox. Even SWG essentially led to the three things I listed above. Most PVE stuff in the game was there to supplement crafting or XP, to skill up combat abilities.

    IT didn't really lead to some deep PVE endgame. Late game PVE was tied to crafting ( resources). Yet there was little functionality in the PVE, mobs were pretty weak in comparison to a skilled buffed player. EVEN a krayt gave little challenge to a small group. The hardest challenge in the game DWB was still weak in comparison to what PVE games essentially offer content wise.

    PVE is almost always centered around loot in some form, god items if you will. A stark contrast to the typical sandbox environment. Where players create the best wares. I guess I just don't see how you put PVE fundamentals from games like EQ into something like SWG or UO.

    Maybe this is really a question for another thread.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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