Why do Indie MMOs have more features?

Chrisbox

As someone probably already stated Indie MMOs like to go outside of the box in order to establish something unique to their name. The usual result is a broken or very dull experience in that aspect of the game and/or every other aspect of the game and ultimately keeps the majority of MMO players away from it.  

zach_b

tl;dr version of this thread: "I want boats, AAA titles don't have boats therefore they have fewer features".

Jabas

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Jabas

Quantity =/= quality.

Doesnt matter how many features a game have, what really matters is how many are well implemented.

 

A mmorpg dont need to lunch with a huge ammount of features, need to lunch with features well implemented and then continues to add more during time after inicial release. But for this the company must be serious about the entire project and about the features they want to implemente in a close future, and do not change the path that was once annoucement while during game development.

as I have explicitly stated.

This thread is not about quality.

I like my boats in my games

You made a question and i try to answer using my opinion. And in my opinion, like i try to say in my above post, AAA game projects (like you call them) try to deliver games with quallity, some still fail anyway i know, but still its one of the main objective.

In other games they can fill it with a huge ammount of feature because they dont care about quality, and im not focus only about graphics.

Things with less quality take less time to produce, this applys to everthing in world, not only in vídeo games.

And we cant Forget the cost of this diferent productions.

 

Now that you mentioned boats, ArcheAge is the best experience i had in last years because of all this, a AAA quality game with a amazing amount of features, and all well implemented in-game imo.

 

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by zach_b
tl;dr version of this thread: "I want boats, AAA titles don't have boats therefore they have less features".

what I want has nothing to do with it.

its a feature +1 simple as that. it just so happens its a feature I enjoy but that holds nothing at all to my case now does it?

zach_b

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by zach_b
tl;dr version of this thread: "I want boats, AAA titles don't have boats therefore they have less features".

what I want has nothing to do with it.

its a feature +1 simple as that. it just so happens its a feature I enjoy but that holds nothing at all to my case now does it?

Several people have already provided counterpoints, and you keep bringing up boats/ships excessively as a counterpoint to them. It's pretty clear you're not actually offering a discussion, you want everyone to agree with you. Your initial hypothesis is even stated in a way that is not inclusive towards discussion. You have also yet to quantify your statement that indie MMO's have more features than AAA titles with any sort of specifics or direct comparisons between games. Perhaps you should stop posting for awhile.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Jabas

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Jabas

Quantity =/= quality.

Doesnt matter how many features a game have, what really matters is how many are well implemented.

 

A mmorpg dont need to lunch with a huge ammount of features, need to lunch with features well implemented and then continues to add more during time after inicial release. But for this the company must be serious about the entire project and about the features they want to implemente in a close future, and do not change the path that was once annoucement while during game development.

as I have explicitly stated.

This thread is not about quality.

I like my boats in my games

You made a question and i try to answer using my opinion. And in my opinion, like i try to say in my above post, AAA game projects (like you call them) try to deliver games with quallity, some still fail anyway i know, but still its one of the main objective.

In other games they can fill it with a huge ammount of feature because they dont care about quality, and im not focus only about graphics.

Things with less quality take less time to produce, this applys to everthing in world, not only in vídeo games.

And we cant Forget the cost of this diferent productions.

 

Now that you mentioned boats, ArcheAge is the best experience i had in last years because of all this, a AAA quality game with a amazing amount of features, and all well implemented in-game imo.

 

as I have stated in the first post I explcitly want this thread to not be about quality of game play.

The reason is because that gets things into highly subjective arguements that do not address my question.

regardless of if they are good features or bad features I am trying to understand why on average an indie game has more features then a AAA game even though they have about 1/10 the budget.

I do not want to engage in questions on which features are good or which games are better than others because to be honest it is my opinion that all the games I have listed are far better than any other AAA game I have played and I am not getting into a discussion about that.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by zach_b

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by zach_b
tl;dr version of this thread: "I want boats, AAA titles don't have boats therefore they have less features".

what I want has nothing to do with it.

its a feature +1 simple as that. it just so happens its a feature I enjoy but that holds nothing at all to my case now does it?

Several people have already provided counterpoints, and you keep bringing up boats/ships excessively as a counterpoint to them. It's pretty clear you're not actually offering a discussion, you want everyone to agree with you. Your initial hypothesis is even stated in a way that is not inclusive towards discussion. You have also yet to quantify your statement that indie MMO's have more features than AAA titles with any sort of specifics or direct comparisons between games. Perhaps you should stop posting for awhile.

ok lets talk about farming then.

 

again this thread is about why there are more features in indie games then in AAA games. I am providing a list of some of those features. why would that be the wrong thing to do?

additionally, if we are all going to spout off our opinions as facts then I will just says all the features or well polished and virtual bug free. its ASSSUMED that indie features are non-polished and buggy but in reality that is a false myth. Sure it happens but on average its about as common as AAA games.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

We can debate over what games are better until the cows come home but what thing is clear.

On average it appears indie games have more features then AAA games. 

Why is that?

 

Because they sacrifice polish and quality. Just because you have more features it does not mean it's a better game. Perfect example Wurm - it's a sandbox with lots of features, but it's a terrible game IMO.

so your confusing items

polish and quality IN YOUR OPINION.

correct?

I barely know what 'polish and quality' means.

To you, you think Wurm is a terrible game, to me it blows away the competition. but that is not what this thread is about.

Jabas

If i cant insert the word "quality" then is not possible to answer your incial question.

But it seems you allready knew the answer when you made this thread, thats why you try to keep the word "quality" out of discuss.

 

Anyway, your thread your rules so about your inicial question?

"I know but i cant say it"  

Reizla

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by GrayImpact

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Dibdabs
What indie games would these be then?  As compared to what AAA games?  You know, specifics and all that.

Wurm Online

Darkfall

Xyson

and even EvE

Eve Excluded ( never played it for more then a hour ), I'd say because all those games feel unpolished and clunky.

More content, but the overall quality is far lower.

 

I'd also argue that theres not really more features, but simply different settings, just because a MMO offers freedom / sandbox elements, doesn't mean it has more content then a themepark.

so out of the games I listed Darkfall has the least amount of features.

here are SOME features in that game in which I am curious if its possible in AAA MMOs

build ships

sail ships

ship warfare

build cannons

build strongholds

twitch combat

ArcheAge has all the features you just mentioned! Yet again, it might be a AAA title, it comes from a new studio and should be labled as indie?

Tyggs

But we still haven't seen your comprehensive data that makes your original inquiry based on factual information. You assume they have more features because there are more that you personally enjoy.

SEANMCAD

so the take away answer here thus far is that AAA games have less features than indies because they do more testing.

that might be true, although it appears that it doesnt actually reduce the number of bugs. Bugs in the indie games I have played are only marginally more than in the AAA games. Although to be fair most (but not all) of what I am refering to in AAA is from what I read because I dont play AAA games anymore. They lack the features I care about

rojoArcueid

i dont think indie mmos have more features per say. I do think that AAA mmos follow the same old pattern to please investors that still believe they can hit the magical number only WoW have had the fortune of reaching. Indies dont follow that crap, they follow their own vision to make a nice and varied mmo. But because they are indies they have less resources and if they get too ambitious with so little resources and manpower they can sink easier. But some of them definitelly have (IMHO) fresher and more varied ideas than all these big names than only breath to kill wow at their own game (and fail after fail they never learn).

aesperus

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

so the take away answer here thus far is that AAA games have less features than indies because they do more testing.

that might be true, although it appears that it doesnt actually reduce the number of bugs. Bugs in the indie games I have played are only marginally more than in the AAA games. Although to be fair most (but not all) of what I am refering to in AAA is from what I read because I dont play AAA games anymore. They lack the features I care about

Do you have any spare cotton? You seem to have quite a lot jammed in your ears there.

The take away is that you are making a claim, which you have failed to quantify, and are now assuming you were right all along, even though numerous other posters have presented actual counter arguments which you've repeatedly avoided.

1-1, there is not a single indie game (outside of perhaps minecraft, IF you include all the mods people have made themselves) that has demonstrated a higher quantity of features. They may have a higher concentration of features you personally like, but that doesn't mean they have more features total.

What you seem to be trying to say is 'why don't more MMOs have sandbox features', and the answer is simple. Sandbox games (for a while now) have been less popular, so most of the AAA companies haven't been making them. That is changing, though. That said, there are a few non-indie sandbox games which are feature rich (Eve, and Archeage being 2 examples). Heck, if you wanna go back far enough Ultima Online and Anarchy Online would also be on that list. As would Star Wars Galaxies.

Foomerang

The last Indie MMO I really played was Xsyon. And it had less features than FFXIV. In fact it has less features than SWTOR.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

so the take away answer here thus far is that AAA games have less features than indies because they do more testing.

that might be true, although it appears that it doesnt actually reduce the number of bugs. Bugs in the indie games I have played are only marginally more than in the AAA games. Although to be fair most (but not all) of what I am refering to in AAA is from what I read because I dont play AAA games anymore. They lack the features I care about

Do you have any spare cotton? You seem to have quite a lot jammed in your ears there.

The take away is that you are making a claim, which you have failed to quantify, and are now assuming you were right all along, even though numerous other posters have presented actual counter arguments which you've repeatedly avoided.

1-1, there is not a single indie game (outside of perhaps minecraft, IF you include all the mods people have made themselves) that has demonstrated a higher quantity of features. They may have a higher concentration of features you personally like, but that doesn't mean they have more features total.

What you seem to be trying to say is 'why don't more MMOs have sandbox features', and the answer is simple. Sandbox games (for a while now) have been less popular, so most of the AAA companies haven't been making them. That is changing, though. That said, there are a few non-indie sandbox games which are feature rich (Eve, and Archeage being 2 examples). Heck, if you wanna go back far enough Ultima Online and Anarchy Online would also be on that list. As would Star Wars Galaxies.

ah so you want a feature list of the games I have posted compared to some AAA games.

 

well that is fair but its also a fuck ton of work, that could take all day. I will say however that I find it a bit shocking that someone who has played in both genres actually thinks the feature count between the two is similar. In fact I find it a bit funny. I will see if I can get to that today but I wouldnt promise, like I said that is a lot of work. I think Wurm alone has 135 skills? not sure about that.

Tyggs

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

so the take away answer here thus far is that AAA games have less features than indies because they do more testing.

that might be true, although it appears that it doesnt actually reduce the number of bugs. Bugs in the indie games I have played are only marginally more than in the AAA games. Although to be fair most (but not all) of what I am refering to in AAA is from what I read because I dont play AAA games anymore. They lack the features I care about

Do you have any spare cotton? You seem to have quite a lot jammed in your ears there.

The take away is that you are making a claim, which you have failed to quantify, and are now assuming you were right all along, even though numerous other posters have presented actual counter arguments which you've repeatedly avoided.

1-1, there is not a single indie game (outside of perhaps minecraft, IF you include all the mods people have made themselves) that has demonstrated a higher quantity of features. They may have a higher concentration of features you personally like, but that doesn't mean they have more features total.

What you seem to be trying to say is 'why don't more MMOs have sandbox features', and the answer is simple. Sandbox games (for a while now) have been less popular, so most of the AAA companies haven't been making them. That is changing, though. That said, there are a few non-indie sandbox games which are feature rich (Eve, and Archeage being 2 examples). Heck, if you wanna go back far enough Ultima Online and Anarchy Online would also be on that list. As would Star Wars Galaxies.

ah so you want a feature list of the games I have posted compared to some AAA games.

 

well that is fair but its also a fuck ton of work, that could take all day. I will say however that I find it a bit shocking that someone who has played in both genres actually thinks the feature count between the two is similar. In fact I find it a bit funny. I will see if I can get to that today but I wouldnt promise, like I said that is a lot of work. I think Wurm alone has 135 skills? not sure about that.

Each skill in a game counts as a feature? If so, 135 is a tiny number. Check skills for any EQ game.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Dibdabs
What indie games would these be then?  As compared to what AAA games?  You know, specifics and all that.

Wurm Online

Darkfall

Xyson

and even EvE

uh? Eve has more features? You are joking?

It is missing LFD, LFR, phasing, arena, and BG compared to WoW, and many other MMOs.

It is missing ground combat, compared to STO.

It is also missing a story driven main quest-line.

It is missing so many features that i don't know how one would put up a straight face and claim it has more features.

Ditto for Darkfall and these other games.

 

 

drakaena

Indie games lean more towards sandboxy elements, which encourages player created content, and that is dynamic and endless.
So while the list of in-game features may not stack up to a AAA production, in many cases it feels more, because of player choice.

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Tyggs

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

so the take away answer here thus far is that AAA games have less features than indies because they do more testing.

that might be true, although it appears that it doesnt actually reduce the number of bugs. Bugs in the indie games I have played are only marginally more than in the AAA games. Although to be fair most (but not all) of what I am refering to in AAA is from what I read because I dont play AAA games anymore. They lack the features I care about

Do you have any spare cotton? You seem to have quite a lot jammed in your ears there.

The take away is that you are making a claim, which you have failed to quantify, and are now assuming you were right all along, even though numerous other posters have presented actual counter arguments which you've repeatedly avoided.

1-1, there is not a single indie game (outside of perhaps minecraft, IF you include all the mods people have made themselves) that has demonstrated a higher quantity of features. They may have a higher concentration of features you personally like, but that doesn't mean they have more features total.

What you seem to be trying to say is 'why don't more MMOs have sandbox features', and the answer is simple. Sandbox games (for a while now) have been less popular, so most of the AAA companies haven't been making them. That is changing, though. That said, there are a few non-indie sandbox games which are feature rich (Eve, and Archeage being 2 examples). Heck, if you wanna go back far enough Ultima Online and Anarchy Online would also be on that list. As would Star Wars Galaxies.

ah so you want a feature list of the games I have posted compared to some AAA games.

 

well that is fair but its also a fuck ton of work, that could take all day. I will say however that I find it a bit shocking that someone who has played in both genres actually thinks the feature count between the two is similar. In fact I find it a bit funny. I will see if I can get to that today but I wouldnt promise, like I said that is a lot of work. I think Wurm alone has 135 skills? not sure about that.

Each skill in a game counts as a feature? If so, 135 is a tiny number. Check skills for any EQ game.

It really depends what you do and don't count as features.  

I would say this; a game with 100 features where 99 of them are buggy, tedious or irrelvant is worse than a game with 2 quality, fun features.  

Amana

If you wish to post on  a particular topic, it's necessary to include the substance of your argument or topic in the opening post, otherwise it is an empty discussion and could be interpreted as encouraging one-sided debate or even bashing rather than an actual discussion.