The impossible task

Scot

Have Zenimax failed again? What are they being accused of this time? The recession?

How about instead you ask yourselves why no MMO has been the perfect version of a solo game. Maybe...just maybe...this has something to do with the nature of solo as opposed to multiplayer games. Naaa...it has to be Zenimax's fault doesn't it.

EDIT: I am so used to doing this type of post, I did not read what others had said. Sorry but as others have pointed out all we get on this forum is moaning from beta players who don't like P2P and content locusts who want to complain they were not able to finish the game before they left at the end of their statutory one month.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by cronius77

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by cronius77

the reason you're getting responses like this from most people is because every day threads like this pop up and people are just sick of everyone who doesnt play or like the game seeming to have a better way of doing things. There is a fan base playing this game that enjoy it for what it is and not trying to change every single aspect of it. If you want to influence development on a game you better go sign up for kickstarter and put your money where your mouth is and im sure you can influence a games dev team if you put enough money where your mouth is. 

I play ESO myself and wildstar to and enjoy both games the way they are currently. Sure I would love to see some new features and some quality of life changes in both games but you are acting like ESO is terrible because its not a sandbox that YOU want to play. Some of us old school DAOC vets enjoy the factions because their pvp system in eso is by far the best out here currently on the market, that is unless you love full loot pvp or something similar which you have darkfall and mortal for that. 

BTW go look at how well shadowbane did, it describes most of your points. Open world you create your own factions and have pvp where you want it. It flopped and tanked hardcore and was one of the first games to go free to play then close right up.

I think the issue that some of us have is not how the game is designed and not that people like it.

but its the statements that its 'an impossible task'. that statement alone is what gets me feeling I HAVE to set the record straight

You aren't setting anything straight.. You can't force people to agree with you.

thus far nobody has disagreed with me either, they just resort to personal attacks because I made the point that I have played MMOs with these features 

i dont think anyone is going to disagree with you entirely, what you say is a concept most will enjoy or at least try out. But the way you are saying it is implying it to a game that is already released and obviously already cost millions of dollars to make it how it is now. The only hope you can really have of what you want in a ES game now is if they make a new ES game or the fallout mmo if they ever do make that.  Games can be made any way you want them to be made, what you describe is basically what all the survival horror games are doing now like day z rust 7 days to die etc. Its not impossible you are right but its also not feasable for ESO to go this route when they already have a concrete game setup and designed.  

Also part of what made skyrim and oblivion great, even morrowind was the community modding the games. You basically had a mod for anything you liked in a game especially skyrim. I wont even touch skyrim vanilla anymore without survival mods and gameplay mods that turn it into a hardcore survival game that you struggle to survive in like hypothermia camping thirst disease starvation etc. Thats what really made those games great is the community creations.

when someone says 'making an online version of Elder Scrolls single player game is an impossible task.

just send my rage to the moon. It really pisses me off, because its so untrue and leads to a generation of gamers believing it.

I dont care if you guys like this game or not but please for the love of christ stop saying its an impossible task

Sovrath

I agree, making a game more like skyrim or morrowind wouldn't be hard.

There would, however, have to be some concessions.

You could either do it like guildwars where players could get together in cities and towns but outside their walls the world only reacted to your party or you could have one open world but have various areas, dungeons, caves, etc be various level ranges.

Some might not like that as they might want areas to be level appropriate until they are able to move on but I don't see this as necessary. You enter a mine, get your ass kicked just don't come back until you have leveled up or have gotten  better equipment.

Another issue is the killing of, and stealing from, npc's.

since a good many players would like nothing more than turning the world into one mass graveyard of npc's there are a variety of ways to do this.

Either make npc's immune to attack, not the solution some might like

Make the punishment incredibly harsh if/when caught thus dissuading people from doing it too often.

Or maybe the developers make it so that they aren't permanently dead and they re-spawn after a bit. This kills immersion a bit.

I imagine stealing would have to be phased and instanced otherwise within a week there will be nothing left. Or have it so these items respawn.

Or dont' make the game an mmo but a large multiplayer game, keep the rules as they were in the single player games. This way the effects of one or two people might not be so overwhelmingly destructive.

 

Certainly concessions would have to be made but I believe it can be done.

 

 

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Sovrath

I agree, making a game more like skyrim or morrowind wouldn't be hard.

 

 

 

that is all I have been looking for.

If possible can we get the entire community to say this I know that is not being fair but it would be nice

 

If I want an ESO experience I will play Darkfall which I did for a long time. I dont mind people saying Darkfall is trash and ESO is better but I do mind when people say its not possible

Innkwell

Its an impossible task... you dolt.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Innkwell
Its an impossible task... you dolt.

the ESO troll community lives on strong

Kyleran

I think Bethesda is making the next single player game for you, maybe they didn't want the MMO version competing for the same audience.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Kyleran
I think Bethesda is making the next single player game for you, maybe they didn't want the MMO version competing for the same audience.

could be.

much better response then 'impossible task' thank you. clearly not everyone in the community is an ass

Remains

Yeah, it's possible. Would have taken some serious talent and thinking to pull it off succesfully though.

ESO would have been (IMO) the perfect fit for taking dynamic content a step further. Or several steps further.

NPC 27 got murdered? No problem, a caravan of immigrants from far south is coming to make a living in this gorgeous village. The horrible daedra in the east got killed off? No worries, a clan of powerful vampires are establishing a base in northeast.

Then they just had to make stealing, murdering and vandalism have very serious repercussions, to the extent that succesful thieves and murderers are very rare.

Of course, this would have probably ended in a far more sandboxy game than the current ESO, and the ship has since long sailed already. But hey, couldave/wouldave/shouldave, right?

Sovrath

Originally posted by Remains

NPC 27 got murdered? No problem, a caravan of immigrants from far south is coming to make a living in this gorgeous village. The horrible daedra in the east got killed off? No worries, a clan of powerful vampires are establishing a base in northeast.

I agree it would have taken them to seriously rethink dynamic content but the first part in yellow wouldn't  necessarily work.

some players are bored. really bored. They have no idea what to do with themselves.

If the npc suddenly appeared but with backstory, he would be killed on the spot, rinse and repeat.

If the npc "traveled" along the roads he would never make it to town. If he did make it to town he would be dead in seconds.

of course a huge penalty would help to curtail all of that but it would have to be huge. Not like an archeage penalty. Then the question is whether it's worth it?

Otherwise I can see developers, and rightly so, arguing why they should create elaborate game systems to replace the populace of the world when they will be offed in seconds.

The second part up there seems close to what Sony is doing with EQ Next.

 

cerulean2012

People what you all forget is the SeanMCad is NEVER wrong, so don't try to prove him wrong.

...sarcasm off

Cougan

I think they could probably do the open world thing.

 

There was one bizarre moment I had on the Daggerfall Covenant where i swam around one major zone to another without the usual instance loading screen. As if the screen wasnt even necessary in the first place.

 

Also I'm not sure what the purpose of these player controlled factions would meant to be when they already have 3 major factions with their own lands and war motivations, and its not like theres open world PVP anyway.

 

The xp gain from picking chests and killing mobs is more than reasonable compared to some old grind games I've played just the average player these days has no tolerance for it anymore and quests are a lot faster to complete than killing 1000 monsters or whatever.

Tbau

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

It actually would have been very easy. Just not hire Matt Frior or his ilk that believe that MMORPGs belong in a box that follows a small design formula.

I would have thrown a few hundred at them for a Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind multiplayer game, then we could have modded out the crap parts. instead we are stuck with the horrible combat, ui, skill/class, animations of a poorly made TESO.

Reklaw

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

1. I like the mix and match in ESO, cross between skill and class based. However would have liked it even more if I could have setup my atribute points with my starter class.
2. No factions are nice, don't think it will fit in ESO
3. I only know of some sandbox MMORPG that actually deliver a more open world. Not so much with Themepark games. ESO was not marketed a sandbox MMORPG was it?
4. Depends on the type of player. I don't mind the much lower XP gain from just killing randomly. Sure doing quests will gain you much faster XP. But I am into RPG's for it's immersion within it's world regardless if it's sandbox RPG, themepark RPG or singleplayer RPG. I play other game genre's and the general multiplayer games to be competitive.

Besides if the transition from singlplayer game to MMORPG would be easy almost all developers would have taken that risk that developed singleplayer games.

angerbeaver

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

I think it is impossible because the people that own the game obviously do not want to do it.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Acidon.Numen

It's great that we have people like you around. 

Every game needs people that don't even play, only know about the game through proxy, yet have strong, continuing, (negative) opinions about it.

/clap

 This +1

 But then some people just love to hate. They have no first hand experience with the game so they just parrot the negatives they've heard much of which is also from people who have no experience or a very limited amount (ie I played for 5 mins and uninstall etc etc).

  No ESO is not perfect but then its always interesting when the armchair developers get involved in a game they haven't even tried 

the bottom line here is either contrubute your views to the points I made or do not post and I can assume you agree with them.

If the only thing you can say is not related to the points I have illustrate then its safe to assume you agree with me becuase you cant think of anything to say to them

Yeah.. . your OP is fairly pointless.. it will accomplish nothing other than another mmorpg arguement over semantics and what ifs... congrats on creating another flame war..

The point is not everyone likes the same types of games you do.. therefore there is very little incentive to change the game if it were feasible.. nor is there any point in hashing out if they could have made it the way you desire.

We all know it could have been done.. but the real question is should it have been?  And the answer to that.. no one knows.

the point has nothing whatsoever to do with what games I like.

We are talking only about possible features and are those feature impossible or not.

If you are walking down the road and some guy says 'walking is an impossible task' you might be incline to tell him that you are walking REGARDLESS of if you or he likes walking

SEANMCAD

GUYS!

 

I do not dispute that the existing ESO game model is not the best ever conceived of.

I am just saying,, 'its an impossible task to make it like the single player ES' is total bullshit.

fucking focus for fuck sake

doodphace

Its funny, SWTOR is an online KOTOR and a direct sequel (as announced since day one, no deception), and people got mad that it was essentially KOTOR Online instead of something else (SWG2), yet people are crapping on ESO for it not being Skyrim online. No matter what gets created, there will be people who think it was the wrong direction.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by doodphace
Its funny, SWTOR is an online KOTOR and a direct sequel (as announced since day one, no deception), and people got mad that it was essentially KOTOR Online instead of something else (SWG2), yet people are crapping on ESO for it not being Skyrim online. No matter what gets created, there will be people who think it was the wrong direction.

there is a difference between raging that ESO is not like Skyrim and pointing out that although they did decide to make it differently that the statement that its not possible is certified horseshit.

what concerns me is that by continuing to say that its not possible a whole generation of gamers will grow up thinking that its not actually possible. not that its a good idea but that its all together flat out not possible.

 

you are talking about something compeltely different then what I am

Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

For reasons, listed below a true MMO doesn't fit this IP. The best they could have done - and what was asked for - is just a multiplayer Skyrim. I'm thinking at most 12 people in one world, sort of like GTA. 

SpottyGekko

It's impossible to duplicate the game play from a single-player RPG game in an MMO.

 

It has never been done.

Because it's impossible.

 

The fact that many people stubbornly cling to the belief that it IS possible, doesn't make it so.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

For reasons, listed below a true MMO doesn't fit this IP. The best they could have done - and what was asked for - is just a multiplayer Skyrim. I'm thinking at most 12 people in one world, sort of like GTA. 

the features I have listed are possible and have already been done in more than one MMO.

it is possible.

is it a great idea? well that is a different conversation those are the MMOs I play and I take issue when people tell me that the MMos I play are not possible WHEN i AM PLAYING THEM!

Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

For reasons, listed below a true MMO doesn't fit this IP. The best they could have done - and what was asked for - is just a multiplayer Skyrim. I'm thinking at most 12 people in one world, sort of like GTA. 

the features I have listed are possible and have already been done in more than one MMO.

it is possible.

is it a great idea? well that is a different conversation those are the MMOs I play and I take issue when people tell me that the MMos I play are not possible WHEN i AM PLAYING THEM!

I remember seeing Mortal Online and thinking it was a good approximation of an Elder Scrolls-esque MMO. Unfortunately, it wasn't very well implemented. The concepts however were in accord with what you're talking about. Who knows why Zenimax went the path they did - even after so much backlash. Which games were you thinking?

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

For reasons, listed below a true MMO doesn't fit this IP. The best they could have done - and what was asked for - is just a multiplayer Skyrim. I'm thinking at most 12 people in one world, sort of like GTA. 

the features I have listed are possible and have already been done in more than one MMO.

it is possible.

is it a great idea? well that is a different conversation those are the MMOs I play and I take issue when people tell me that the MMos I play are not possible WHEN i AM PLAYING THEM!

I remember seeing Mortal Online and thinking it was a good approximation of an Elder Scrolls-esque MMO. Unfortunately, it wasn't very well implemented. The concepts however were in accord with what you're talking about. Who knows why Zenimax went the path they did - even after so much backlash. Which games were you thinking?

There are a lot of MMo examples.

I think its not important to ask where those games good or not. The issue question is, is it possible?

yes its possible.

not only possible but fiucking easy and cheap compared to AAA dev costs.

THAT is the subject

Jimmy562

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Destai

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I read a post which suggest that making ESO more like Skyrim would be an impossible task.

I want to refer specific items that would be easy and items that I personally think many ES fans would think are a standard requirement.

1. skill based, not class based. This is easy, not hard.

2. no factions...what?...player created factions....easy...not hard.

3. true open world...small team MMOs have done this....not imposible

4. make progress not dependent on questing....easy not hard. (I am assuming that progress in this game is much easier if you quest).

 

The implication that making ESO like an ES game is an impossible task is very frustrating to hear. indie developers with far less money have done it.

For reasons, listed below a true MMO doesn't fit this IP. The best they could have done - and what was asked for - is just a multiplayer Skyrim. I'm thinking at most 12 people in one world, sort of like GTA. 

the features I have listed are possible and have already been done in more than one MMO.

it is possible.

is it a great idea? well that is a different conversation those are the MMOs I play and I take issue when people tell me that the MMos I play are not possible WHEN i AM PLAYING THEM!

You are right in saying making an online version of Elder Scrolls isn't impossible. I think the people that said that were trying to say it wouldn't make a very good MMO but worded it poorly.