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Why I left EVE -- and why you shouldn't bother with this game.

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  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse

    The game is doing bad in terms of recruiting new players. It has to be above the attrition rate or the game is in fact dying.

    https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47894/ccp_hf_financial_statements_december_31_2013.pdf

    I would not call $21 million loss doing fine or betting on it being around for much longer.

    that's the development of WOD that wa sgetting laid off.

    Next time do proper research inbetween WOW raids.

    There are raids in WoW, you must know i guess.. I never played wow, i played EvE for 8 years though.

    ----

    So basically what you are trying to say is that if CCP has no money then it will not affect EvE. You are a smart one indeed, you must be a WoW player after all!

  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 515
    Originally posted by Hejiet

    I had a similar experience from a new player's POV. This is from like 3 years ago.

    I tried EVE on a free trial account and liked it enough to subscribe, I even took 2 accounts so that I could mine and transport rapidly with 2 vessels.

    I guess I didn't know much how to transfer stuff in space from one ship to another so what I would do is put the ore in space and grab it with my other vessel.

    Then some guy came around (Mr.Pain his name was if I remember correctly) and did something to the can which made it "his" so when I took my stuff from it, he could attack me in High Sec.

    He disabled my vessels (I had no fighting capabilities as I was just mining) and demanded that I give him 1mil credits which I didn't have as I had just started the game and recently bought the new mining vessel.

    When he blew me up, I deleted my subs and uninstalled the game.

    This is known as "can flipping".

    He made a jetcan and moved your ore from your jetcan into his. Since there was nothing in your can, it disappeared. At that point, you gained kill rights on him, but he now had ownership of the ore taken from your jetcan. You then stole his ore and he gained kill rights on you.

    This was changed in 2012 though, and you can now freely loot from a jetcan belonging to players you have kill rights on.

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760

    Since you've quit please post you character's ingame name for confirmation of your story.

    Let's see your character's killboard.

    There's no reason why you can't post it since you are no longer playing the game and it will make your story more credible for those of us that have played in high sec since 2008 and have never been ganked once.

     

  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Since you've quit please post you character's ingame name for confirmation of your story.

    Let's see your character's killboard.

    There's no reason why you can't post it since you are no longer playing the game and it will make your story more credible for those of us that have played in high sec since 2008 and have never been ganked once.

    Yeah, it's funny how all these people come out lately,  preach doom and gloom for the ONLY MMO GAME actually growing in subs over its entire lifetime and never forget to mention how S:C and E:D will be the greatest things since sliced bread and suck all players from EvE. Despite of the fact that those games are totally different genres.

    On the first page of the thread is a person who is either a notorious liar or the most stupid player ever to take on EvE.

    Quote:

    I tried eve on a free trial pass about 2 weeks ago.  Second night out a couple of ships approached me (not sure what guild they where) and demanded I give them all of my money & other stuff I had.  I refused and the blew me up.  I thought oh well and went out the next night, same thing.  Haven't been back to the game since and have no desire to return to a game that I can not even level out of a starting area in.

    So he was "leveling" in his "starting area" and got blackmailed and blown up by a whole gang of other players... Yeah right. And Concord was on holiday leave and left a level system and starting areas... - Either he/she/it managed to ignore all ingame warnings and enter lowsec or he/she/it would have seen a spectacular firework of concorded ships who suicided on a rookie frigate. Or... well... he/she/it made this story totally up.

    Unfortunately the quality of the anecdotal "evidence" is often on the same level or not much better.  I still have to meet all these "bad people" out there for no other reason but to grief me. And even if they existed I would be thankful, since griefing, especially in highsec, costs a lot of ships. A fact which is not only good for my ingame business, but also for my personal metagame, since these are the friendly people buying PLEX for $$$ to cover their ingame expenses, so I can pay my accounts with ISK. Fabulous!

    Otherwise it seems like people are trying to defend their assumed god given right to act stupid and thoughtless in any given game and get away with it. On the few occasions I got ganked in highsec I always asked the gankers for the reasons and how I could improve to avoid that and lo and behold almost all gave me valuable tips. Ranting on the other hand never works. Anecdotal, too, but valid in every social activity.

  • BailoPan15BailoPan15 Member Posts: 410
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by BailoPan15
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    Originally posted by joosii
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]

    So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual  or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.

    HUehuehuehueheuhAH AHH AHAHAHHAHA Xa0x0a0xa00x0a 0a00 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD

     

    No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL

    And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill" 

    We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it image

    but your tears are refreshing image

    Sorry to disappoint. Nobody managed to pod me. My account is still rich as fuck. It's just that the game is way too boring. I like how fast you are on the assumption part though. Love EVE noobs <3 Have you ever been flying solo? Or you a "strength in numbers" believers? :D 

    I'm pretty sure I can activate the 4 hour grace period and purchase a PLEX if I wanted to play

    Thing is, i dont want to. PvP is boring, scanning the space for goodies eventualyl gets boring and agent missions are crap .

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Oh careful, nothing encourages the gank-donkey more than a carebear who says they have never been podded, they will be hunting you down with their 2 accounts and sense of fair combat in no time to 'farm your tears' (aka be abusive and obnoxious in game chat)

    Game is healthy, nothing to worry about when all carebears move to elite dangerous, star citizen - their universe of wolves will be complete finally.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Oh careful, nothing encourages the gank-donkey more than a carebear who says they have never been podded, they will be hunting you down with their 2 accounts and sense of fair combat in no time to 'farm your tears' (aka be abusive and obnoxious in game chat)

    Game is healthy, nothing to worry about when all carebears move to elite dangerous, star citizen - their universe of wolves will be complete finally.

    Got it. You think that games which have nothing to do with the kind of game EvE is will kill it. Did it ever occur to you, that neither of the two has an economic model which deserves the name?  Privateer/Elite style NPC trading is no economy. Both games have no empire building, no nothion of sov, no need for large transports, no player built structures... They are both essentially solo shooters in space with some possibilities for coop.

    This is not a bad thing, they might be fun to play, but they cannot in any way replace the full package materialized in the 10 years of EvE development and game depth. They can complement it and as long Valkyrie is more a tech demo than a playable game they can fill exactly that spot for the twitchy part of the EvE population.

    And some words to the guy above you:

    Skill is more than twitch and upper management. You probably didn't realize, since you seemingly only played solo and tried exploration, missions and (I assume) low sec solo PvP., but EvE is mainly about cooperation and specialization to reach goals. No other MMO needs this amount of planning and people who are giving large chunks of their free time into their groups for organization, logistics and preparations. But yeah, that is not the styl of game and activity the normal "I wait in some place for the group/raid/bg finder to pop and  call that skillz and endgame" crowd is seeking and endorsing and drives them away rather sooner than later.

    And that in itself is one of the best features of EvE.

  • KrematoryKrematory Member UncommonPosts: 605
    Originally posted by BailoPan15
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by BailoPan15
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    Originally posted by joosii
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]

    So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual  or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.

    HUehuehuehueheuhAH AHH AHAHAHHAHA Xa0x0a0xa00x0a 0a00 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD

     

    No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL

    And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill" 

    We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it image

    but your tears are refreshing image

    Sorry to disappoint. Nobody managed to pod me. My account is still rich as fuck. It's just that the game is way too boring. I like how fast you are on the assumption part though. Love EVE noobs <3 Have you ever been flying solo? Or you a "strength in numbers" believers? :D 

    I'm pretty sure I can activate the 4 hour grace period and purchase a PLEX if I wanted to play

    Thing is, i dont want to. PvP is boring, scanning the space for goodies eventualyl gets boring and agent missions are crap .

    In my old alliance we had a saying: "Only boring people get bored in EVE." And I couldn't agree more with it!

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I understand the strengths of eve Rylah, I have an accounting and software engineering background and I do love the skill involved in Eve ship management. However every game needs a continual stream of new players, including Pvers - both to feed the market, and to become future Pvpers, and when elite D etc come out Eve could well find its life blood dry out because of attitudes to 'Carebears' (it has become stradily worse over the years, and has nothing to do with pvp) Think on this, the wolves taunt the sheep knowing the sheep have nowhere else to go..but when they do have options, what then?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • KrematoryKrematory Member UncommonPosts: 605
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I understand the strengths of eve Rylah, I have an accounting and software engineering background and I do love the skill involved in Eve ship management. However every game needs a continual stream of new players, including Pvers - both to feed the market, and to become future Pvpers, and when elite D etc come out Eve could well find its life blood dry out because of attitudes to 'Carebears' (it has become stradily worse over the years, and has nothing to do with pvp) Think on this, the wolves taunt the sheep knowing the sheep have nowhere else to go..but when they do have options, what then?

    I've spent about 2 years of my EVE career doing almost exclusively PVE, and I loved the danger involved in it. It's a niche game, we all know that, not everyone will like this. But changing the game to something else? That would be the worst thing CCP could do, because that would really be the dead of the game. 

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I'm not saying change, but the behaviour that has developed in high sec is ruining player fun, and it's way beyond anything that is happening in eve historically or any other pvp centric game. I understand it's niche, and danger has its rewards for pve players, but high sec attacks are moving beyond calculated attacks to attacks where massive loss for the attacker is irrelevant, and following behaviour is worse/obnoxious. Many stick with that because the eve universe is wonderfully atmospheric, but as I said when competition in the form of another game comes, many just won't be interested in putting up with that behaviour, why would you?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I'm not saying change, but the behaviour that has developed in high sec is ruining player fun, and it's way beyond anything that is happening in eve historically or any other pvp centric game. I understand it's niche, and danger has its rewards for pve players, but high sec attacks are moving beyond calculated attacks to attacks where massive loss for the attacker is irrelevant, and following behaviour is worse/obnoxious. Many stick with that because the eve universe is wonderfully atmospheric, but as I said when competition in the form of another game comes, many just won't be interested in putting up with that behaviour, why would you?

    Can you link me the data you are basing that on?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I understand the strengths of eve Rylah, I have an accounting and software engineering background and I do love the skill involved in Eve ship management. However every game needs a continual stream of new players, including Pvers - both to feed the market, and to become future Pvpers, and when elite D etc come out Eve could well find its life blood dry out because of attitudes to 'Carebears' (it has become stradily worse over the years, and has nothing to do with pvp) Think on this, the wolves taunt the sheep knowing the sheep have nowhere else to go..but when they do have options, what then?

    What makes you think that EvE does not have a constant influx of new players? In my alliance we take in new players (age from less than a month to 3 months)  regularly and quite some of them stay for longer.  And some will always leave, since they are just not made for EvE. Be it that they get emotionally attached to pixels or don't want to cope with the complexity.

    EvE is the only game with a constant rise in the number of subscriptions since it went live. All others started hyped up high and tanked after a short while to numbers well below the 500k subs EvE has. And even if you say that quite some of them are multiaccounters (which is true), name any other game which makes a  sizeable number of its players pay for multiple accounts over a long time.

  • uplink4242uplink4242 Member UncommonPosts: 257
    Originally posted by Rylah
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I understand the strengths of eve Rylah, I have an accounting and software engineering background and I do love the skill involved in Eve ship management. However every game needs a continual stream of new players, including Pvers - both to feed the market, and to become future Pvpers, and when elite D etc come out Eve could well find its life blood dry out because of attitudes to 'Carebears' (it has become stradily worse over the years, and has nothing to do with pvp) Think on this, the wolves taunt the sheep knowing the sheep have nowhere else to go..but when they do have options, what then?

    What makes you think that EvE does not have a constant influx of new players? In my alliance we take in new players (age from less than a month to 3 months)  regularly and quite some of them stay for longer.  And some will always leave, since they are just not made for EvE. Be it that they get emotionally attached to pixels or don't want to cope with the complexity.

    EvE is the only game with a constant rise in the number of subscriptions since it went live. All others started hyped up high and tanked after a short while to numbers well below the 500k subs EvE has. And even if you say that quite some of them are multiaccounters (which is true), name any other game which makes a  sizeable number of its players pay for multiple accounts over a long time.

    Actually, the number of subs has been gradually decreasing ever since last year. And no, even most MMOs deemed as 'failed' still have a playerbase  well above 500k. If anything, it's the average number of alts that's increasing lately and this has no value in terms of playerbase, only to CCP's wallet. The 'influx' of new players is very low, especially considering that 80% of them end up giving up after a month (fanfest numbers).

    Also, you're not some special snowflake that belongs to the ~elite~ club of players in this game. Acting like that is one of the reasons why this community is so frowned upon. There are far more "difficult" and "complex" games out there.

    An active eve player,

  • OminousDawnOminousDawn Member Posts: 75
    Originally posted by Rylah
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I understand the strengths of eve Rylah, I have an accounting and software engineering background and I do love the skill involved in Eve ship management. However every game needs a continual stream of new players, including Pvers - both to feed the market, and to become future Pvpers, and when elite D etc come out Eve could well find its life blood dry out because of attitudes to 'Carebears' (it has become stradily worse over the years, and has nothing to do with pvp) Think on this, the wolves taunt the sheep knowing the sheep have nowhere else to go..but when they do have options, what then?

    What makes you think that EvE does not have a constant influx of new players? In my alliance we take in new players (age from less than a month to 3 months)  regularly and quite some of them stay for longer.  And some will always leave, since they are just not made for EvE. Be it that they get emotionally attached to pixels or don't want to cope with the complexity.

    EvE is the only game with a constant rise in the number of subscriptions since it went live. All others started hyped up high and tanked after a short while to numbers well below the 500k subs EvE has. And even if you say that quite some of them are multiaccounters (which is true), name any other game which makes a  sizeable number of its players pay for multiple accounts over a long time.

     

    This is repeated so often by Eve proponents that it has become their crying mantra.  It's amazing though that those who repeat this either do not understand the reason or intentionally choose to ignore it.  And that is because Eve is the only game of its kind so every single player who likes this niche has already played, or is already playing, the only game offering it.  In other words, it has no competition.  I'm not sure that a niche player base that has ranged from 300K to 500K at its height, and after a decade is still at those numbers or lower, can consider its game growing or successful.  That sounds more like stagnant or barely sustaining based on its loyal player base, the same player base that has been around since its inception a decade ago.

    To that point, a very good argument could be made that the reason no other game has been developed to compete with Eve is because developers understand its limited reach and all they would accomplish by delving into Eve's niche is splitting Eve's current niche player base which, for all intents and purposes, isn't really worth the investment risk.

    But please do continue to deny and dismiss.  As John Donne so aptly once put it, and appears so accurately relevant in this case ...

    Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him...

    The game you are looking for requiring no PvE completion and where you can just jump in and start mindlessly shooting at people is that way - >>>>

    ... it's called an FPS.

    Quit ruining the MMORPG genre with your constant "PvE grind" whines.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    To me this topic just shows many people just get into MMORPG for "game" and not so much for it's roleplay ability's.

    I think EVE is the closest one gets to a roleplaying virtual sim game.  Think their slogan could be "get friends quick or prepare to die"

    Have you noticed people in EVE or lets say corps are known worldwide. Plenty of interesting story's revolving around EVE's universe. How many interesting story's go around the net about the more themepark games with it's guilds?

    I did find it interesting to read what OP had to say. And in EVE terms I would seek alliances who are targetting CODE, if they are such a treath as made out in OP I sure plenty of other corpse are preparering.....

    I think EVE has a very steady base of subscribers and feel the new players to EVE are just a very small % of players that actually sticks with the game so does CCP really need to change much just because it has some players complaining?  Would the game be suffering from a sudden subscribers drop of 50% then I would understand the need for change. It hasn't dropped that far has it? 

     

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381

    A lot of people here assume that CODE alliance simply griefs but they actually have a very logical rationale behind what they do. They posted their reasoning on a second anniversary blogpost:

    The summer of 2012 was a dark time for EVE. CCP's focus had long since shifted away from providing EVE players with genuine, content-filled expansions. Instead, the winter and summer "expansions" consisted primarily of nerfs to highsec aggression. The nerfs were aimed at pleasing the teeming carebear masses of highsec, whose subscription fees would supposedly float CCP on a wave of cash as they developed CCP's future: Dust 514 and World of Darkness.

    At the time of the drafting of the Code, there were still more nerf "expansions" to come. Despite having already rolled out the summer 2012 expansion (a nerf to wardecs), August saw an "emergency" expansion to massively buff the EHP of mining ships and end Hulkageddon Infinity. For the next expansion, scheduled for December 2012, CCP planned to nerf can-flipping and aggression baiting. Not exactly the stuff of which video game legends are made.

    On June 24, 2012, I presented the EVE community with a different vision, a different highsec than the one they saw every day. Everyone believed that highsec was impossible to change. It would forever be dominated by bots and bot-aspirants, AFK carebears who would only input a few minimal clicks to receive their risk-free internet space money. These misguided players would continue to lobby CCP into skewing the risk/reward balance and fattening the highsec carebear population. In doing so, they would leverage their numbers to gain even greater lobbying power until EVE was transformed into the effortless theme park they desired--and which some believed would make CCP rich.

    The carebears were largely AFK, sucking isk from ice fields with infinite ice. Aside from a few mouse-clicks per hour, they were identical to bots. They contributed no content to the game, but because of their numbers, they were able to persuade CCP to remove content from the game through nerfs.

    So you see they haven't been banned because they have valid reasons for doing what they are doing, this is player driven emergent gameplay. CCP doesn't ban player driven content, its against their principles and against the idea of a true sandbox.

    image

  • aligada87aligada87 Member UncommonPosts: 234
    Originally posted by joosii

    I applaud Ikonoclastia for posting about his experience in EVE, and his list of incident after incident of degenerate behavior that is taking place in EVE. He beat me to it in fact. But I wanted to make a new thread because I believe this warrants one.

    I just left EVE this week after 10 months, completely fed up and tired of the harrassment that goes on day after day. If it isn't me, it's always someone else I know. And I kid you not... DAILY... and REGULARLY. It has gotten to the point where players literally log on for the sole reason to go grieve players. 

    I too have submitted a report of harrassment where a player targeted me and only logged onto his main to check out where i was and to see if I was vulnerable. He would go as much as 15 jumps to find me. Five weeks straight! And I'm a new player. And if he was contacted by EVE about the issue, clearly he didn't get the message.

    The problem CCP refuses to deal with is that games need to evolve, and stubbornly hanging on to old ways of managing the game is killing it.  The "open sandbox" view may have once worked when the playing field was more leveled and the diversity of players was greater. But just as they "had hoped", the game has evolved by player participation. Unfortunately it has gone awry in a horrible way.  The bullies who have fun griefing players are staying, and the new gamers (to EVE, or even just to the world of gaming) give EVE a matter of a few months (even if that) before they leave in disgust at the cruelty and anti-social behavior displayed in front of their faces day after day.

    What is ironic is that it is clear CCP is panicking over a shrinking player base. Look at the promotions. In addition to the extension of the 14-day trial to 21 days if you sign up through a buddy (thinking that a friend will help them through the game), there are rewards for those who bring back reactivated accounts, and a 6-month promotion for players who create a second account (the idea of double clienting was only recently approved by CCP-- no surprised there why they did that). They have initiatives having a GM personally contact every new player within the first day or two -- a real live responding GM. Talk about dedicating resources to trying to keep new players interested -- personal contact is expensive. I know. I worked for a big company at the highest level. There are workshops they offer to new players. There are links galore to places where new players can get information on how to get used to the game.

    But CCP is barking up the wrong tree. New players -- the kind who will invest in a game like this -- will very quickly get over the steep learning curve of EVE. The challenge of manuevering through the UI and discovering the various kinds of roles EVE allows you to play is enough to keep them engaged. The complexity is an encouragement to stay, not a deterrent. And once in a real corp, they will settle in fast. So in my opinion CCP has got it all wrong. It's not that new players are not coming because of the complexity of the game. They are not STAYING because of the community experience.

    The newest griefing trend is this ridiculous Alliance called CODE who is trying to take over high sec by ganking defenseless miners and forcing them into some sick kind of ideology where they are forced to not only comply to an individual's style of gameplay, but they are actually "commanded" not to complain when they get their ship blown up, looted, and then podded. If you want to take a look at some of the most twisted degenerate kinds of people who are enjoying EVE right now, go take a look at their website. minerbumping.com. (I'm sure they will love the press here). Calling players cancer and degenerates in public is not cool -- nor is it appropriate in any setting, including gaming. And since high sec is the home to EVERY new player in EVE, every single one (and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE) will come into contact with this alliance within the first month or two. This alliance is literally holding "fun" as hostage and trying to force players to only play the kind of EVE game that gives them fun. The message: "play EVE how we want or get the hell out of the game." They claim they are making the game better, but in real fact, they are destroying the game -- and CCP is letting them do it.

    If you want to make a program to see how fast you can get rid of new players in the game, this is EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT. The young players of EVE have no chance to even enjoy the game because they are bumped up again these bullies (no pun intended) and told "you are not welcome here unless you do things our way." Really CCP? You want to relinquish that kind of control? Because you are basically letting the game dig its own grave. When unsupervised, this is where the human mind degrades into. Or do you not study the history of the world AT ALL?

    CCP has got to wake up. When a problem interferes with societal growth and development, like gangs or hate-generating ideologies, something needs to do something about it at the authority level. Unfortunately, gamers don't campaign for a game they only play for a few months -- or even just a year. They simply leave, and never tell anyone why. After all, who wants to admit they are being vicitimized for fear of looking weak and pathetic. 

    I wish they would just take their Terms of Service and actually follow it for once. They are letting way to many people get away with things that are hurting the game.

    If you still don't understand the effects of how this alliance represents the EVE players who are destroying the new player base, take a look at the Stanford Prison Experiment by Zimbardo. It's a famous experiment which demonstrates how role-playing can have serious psychological effects on its participants. Unlike the experiment, players in EVE who are griefed just leave  the sandbox. So its not loss to those players. The consequences of this fall entirely on CCP. And unless they sit up and pay attention, they can kiss their great game good-bye.

    its called bad parenting not the mmo. kids these days are getting worst compared to when i first started playing mmo. i been gaming for a very very long time and it wasnt this bad. parents need to slap their kids now days since getting a timeout doesnt do anything anymore. i remember when i said something wrong i would get slapped so hard that my lips would bleed. but you know what it made me a better person.  blame the parents who doesnt watch over their kids when they play mmos. as for eve, eve online is never ever ever going to change because grieving is part of the game. havent you seen jita scamms and stuff. people play eve because its the only place where you can truly be free to do whatever you like, the sub isnt declining its growing slowly. even though i dont play eve no more i still love the freedom you can do in eve. if someone pisses you off u can grieve them until they quit. u know how many players in the game i wanted to punch in the throat for acting all tough behind their computers. well eve is the best place to do that and best part is u get kicks out of it

  • vio2k5vio2k5 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    Originally posted by joosii

    What is ironic is that it is clear CCP is panicking over a shrinking player base. Look at the promotions. In addition to the extension of the 14-day trial to 21 days if you sign up through a buddy (thinking that a friend will help them through the game), there are rewards for those who bring back reactivated accounts, and a 6-month promotion for players who create a second account (the idea of double clienting was only recently approved by CCP-- no surprised there why they did that). They have initiatives having a GM personally contact every new player within the first day or two -- a real live responding GM. Talk about dedicating resources to trying to keep new players interested -- personal contact is expensive. I know. I worked for a big company at the highest level. There are workshops they offer to new players. There are links galore to places where new players can get information on how to get used to the game.

    I would like to say that for those of you who have read the ops post, take it with a pinch of salt. It is true that you need a strong backbone to play eve and there are odd cases where stalking has been in the game as far as I know but overall it can be fun once you get used to the game. The sandbox that is eve has is pretty much open that you can do almost whatever you want in the game and there are limitations. Harassment for one is frowned upon, just recently a guy lost all of his accounts thanks to him ridiculing another player on teamspeak and making fun of him.

    CCP is not panicking as this guy would like to think, the only recent thing they introduced was gifting their users for getting old accounts active again. The 6 month 2nd account deal has been in the game since 2005, I know cos I took advantage of that several times to skill up multiple accounts and the use of multi clienting has always been in the game since the creation. I personally have been playing eve off and on since 2005 and this guy is right new players are kind of screwed compared to older players but ccp has changed a lot of the skills to make things a lot easier for new players compared to how it was several years ago.

     

     

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse

    I don't confuse anything you need to learn how to read.

    ----

    I played for 8 years and have 3 characters with 100mil SP. There is ZERO player skill in fights. The outcome is pre-defined because of the spreadsheet nature of the game and NO ONE engages in a fight they know they will lose. There is no PvP in this game only calculated ganking.

    ----

    If knowing how to run away is considered a skill then you are correct. Oh wait you confirmed this already. The EvE sandbox is full dog shit and you know it.

    ----

    Show me just ONE single article about a really SKILLED player of EvE. There should be some really famous players that played for a long time and have incredible skills at combat. Show me JUST ONE, i dare you! (skilled as in ability to fight not his SP)

    I understood what you posted just fine. You were whining about how you have to spend huge amount of resources in EVE in order to win over those who don't. However, I still stand by what I said. A really skilled EVE player is really skilled. Put a sucky player behind an expensive ship and compare him to a great player and you will see the difference one-on-one.

     

    I was terrible at PvP. I could have gotten myself into a nice tackling ship, had all the relevant skills up to 5, great mods and such but my ship would get popped in seconds in fleet battles. The people who had way more experience in that area made it even if they were in worse ships. I excelled in situations though that they didn't.

     

    In any PvP game, learning how to run away is the most valuable skill you can learn, especially if you don't have a group of players back you up. This is not just a sandbox element, it is anything, whether the DAoC PvP server, UO, or EVE. If you refuse to learn how to do that, especially when the odds are not in your favor, well I don't know what to say.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by OminousDawn

     

    This is repeated so often by Eve proponents that it has become their crying mantra.  It's amazing though that those who repeat this either do not understand the reason or intentionally choose to ignore it.  And that is because Eve is the only game of its kind so every single player who likes this niche has already played, or is already playing, the only game offering it.  In other words, it has no competition.  I'm not sure that a niche player base that has ranged from 300K to 500K at its height, and after a decade is still at those numbers or lower, can consider its game growing or successful.  That sounds more like stagnant or barely sustaining based on its loyal player base, the same player base that has been around since its inception a decade ago.

    To that point, a very good argument could be made that the reason no other game has been developed to compete with Eve is because developers understand its limited reach and all they would accomplish by delving into Eve's niche is splitting Eve's current niche player base which, for all intents and purposes, isn't really worth the investment risk.

    But please do continue to deny and dismiss.  As John Donne so aptly once put it, and appears so accurately relevant in this case ...

    Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him...

    Isn't Perpetuum like EVE?

    The only people who can really say whether EVE is successful is CCP. I think it would be great though if most games could retain 500k subscribers over the span of 10 years or more. Unfortunately all of the older games I have played have basically lost most of their subscribers and are far smaller than EVE is today.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823

    Honestly I read the first post and while long, it's well written. I just couldn't help thinking. It's a sandbox. Stop whining. You won't be competitive as someone that's been in game for a very long time. There are alliances for that. I also couldn't help thinking to myself that either this person wasn't interested in being in an alliance or was more interested in individual play. Being a loner in this game does not work. In which case he doesn't understand or simply ignored the premise of the game. It's a complaint that is very self absorbed and this one fails, because the person missed the point of the game. CCP gives you the framework to do what you want. They've tried nudging you along etc.. but they can't and won't take you by the hand and lead to you down the path. You are not entitled to succeed in this game, you have to earn it. If you're not smart enough , talented enough or social enough, you will fail. Much as in life.

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  • faxnadufaxnadu Member UncommonPosts: 940
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Honestly I read the first post and while long, it's well written. I just couldn't help thinking. It's a sandbox. Stop whining. You won't be competitive as someone that's been in game for a very long time. There are alliances for that. I also couldn't help thinking to myself that either this person wasn't interested in being in an alliance or was more interested in individual play. Being a loner in this game does not work. In which case he doesn't understand or simply ignored the premise of the game. It's a complaint that is very self absorbed and this one fails, because the person missed the point of the game. CCP gives you the framework to do what you want. They've tried nudging you along etc.. but they can't and won't take you by the hand and lead to you down the path. You are not entitled to succeed in this game, you have to earn it. If you're not smart enough , talented enough or social enough, you will fail. Much as in life.

    ok, i have never played this game and never will, few pals that have played this have played it from the beginning so i know something, but i want to give my 2 cents about " there is an alliances for that " comment. ok game is sandbox yeah great so in order to actually get somewhere in this game , after your " character wich is SHIP " is created you need to beg someone to take your puny level 0 ship to their alliance means you start shouting in general pls take me in so that none would shoot me down!? 

     

    how and earth this is entertaining OR by any means fun?

  • OminousDawnOminousDawn Member Posts: 75
    Originally posted by faxnadu
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Honestly I read the first post and while long, it's well written. I just couldn't help thinking. It's a sandbox. Stop whining. You won't be competitive as someone that's been in game for a very long time. There are alliances for that. I also couldn't help thinking to myself that either this person wasn't interested in being in an alliance or was more interested in individual play. Being a loner in this game does not work. In which case he doesn't understand or simply ignored the premise of the game. It's a complaint that is very self absorbed and this one fails, because the person missed the point of the game. CCP gives you the framework to do what you want. They've tried nudging you along etc.. but they can't and won't take you by the hand and lead to you down the path. You are not entitled to succeed in this game, you have to earn it. If you're not smart enough , talented enough or social enough, you will fail. Much as in life.

    ok, i have never played this game and never will, few pals that have played this have played it from the beginning so i know something, but i want to give my 2 cents about " there is an alliances for that " comment. ok game is sandbox yeah great so in order to actually get somewhere in this game , after your " character wich is SHIP " is created you need to beg someone to take your puny level 0 ship to their alliance means you start shouting in general pls take me in so that none would shoot me down!? 

     

    how and earth this is entertaining OR by any means fun?

     

    It's a fallacious argument.  These are the same people who will take you in and then once you begin to acquire things worth having they will strip you of it all leaving you broke and alone.  They will then laugh in your face and justify their behavior by calling it PvP'ing in a sandbox game. 

    The social fallout it causes in it's aftermath is then referred to as fueling diplomacy, subterfuge, revenge, etc.  In any other game this would be referred to as simply "drama."  In that regard it has much in common with Second Life.  You want drama? Play Second Life.  That gaming platform has drama in abundance.  The only difference is that in Second Life no one ever refers to their drama as a selling point or positive aspect of the game.

    The game you are looking for requiring no PvE completion and where you can just jump in and start mindlessly shooting at people is that way - >>>>

    ... it's called an FPS.

    Quit ruining the MMORPG genre with your constant "PvE grind" whines.

  • lugallugal Member UncommonPosts: 668
    faxnadu, clearly you are lying about your knowledge of Eve. There is a very well known and very large corp that is for new or novice pilots to join. Joining corps is easy, a single pilot can never join an alliance, corps join alliances.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

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