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New Player pays to win and loses

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  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614

     

    skill > gear.

     

    Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by Muke

     

    skill > gear.

     

    Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.

    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation.

    ----

    EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself.

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse
    Originally posted by Muke

     

    skill > gear.

     

    Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.

    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation.

    ----

    EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself.

    The people who are incredibly good at combat, ie: knowing ranges, transversals and weaknesses of hulls/weapons/electronic systems are and playing to those.  Single players don't often stand out in a game that, more often than not, are fleeting up to fight with a hundred people.  In those battles, single players rarely shine.  

    However, nullSec entities can often give you a handful of names of those who really do well in certain hulls or encounters.  I can name two from my own alliance that are some of the best interceptor pilots I've ever known, those who stay alive doing ridiculously dangerous things - and not coincidentally staying alive, I'm talking about repeatedly doing dangerous things and coming out as a survivor while performing a beneficial role in a larger engagement.

    You're issue is that you're looking for a handful of names that are the 'best' in a game full of different paths and combat is only a small fraction, albeit the most visual, of the game.

     

    "EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself."

    This statement is one of the most uninformed statements that seems to be constantly made about EO and wreaks of someone who has little knowledge or experience in the game at all.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by Quesa
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse
    Originally posted by Muke

     

    skill > gear.

     

    Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.

    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation.

    ----

    EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself.

    The people who are incredibly good at combat, ie: knowing ranges, transversals and weaknesses of hulls/weapons/electronic systems are and playing to those.  Single players don't often stand out in a game that, more often than not, are fleeting up to fight with a hundred people.  In those battles, single players rarely shine.  

    However, nullSec entities can often give you a handful of names of those who really do well in certain hulls or encounters.  I can name two from my own alliance that are some of the best interceptor pilots I've ever known, those who stay alive doing ridiculously dangerous things - and not coincidentally staying alive, I'm talking about repeatedly doing dangerous things and coming out as a survivor while performing a beneficial role in a larger engagement.

    You're issue is that you're looking for a handful of names that are the 'best' in a game full of different paths and combat is only a small fraction, albeit the most visual, of the game.

     

    "EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself."

    This statement is one of the most uninformed statements that seems to be constantly made about EO and wreaks of someone who has little knowledge or experience in the game at all.

    8 years, 100mil+ SP on 3 characters, lived in null with PL and NC, was part of the Delve war in 2009 and many more, lived in a Class 4 Wormhole with high sec exit and in a deep Class 5 with 2 exits to class 6 and class 3.

    ----

    Little knowledge, yeah, try again.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534

    so... i dont get it.

     

    what is this post/thread about? another eve hater thread?

    love it or leave it - that's the ONLY FUCKING WAY GAMES WORK.

     

     

    now cry somewhere else, your mommies might care.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,399
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse

    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation.

    Look up TWD.

    He left the game in 2008, thats probably why YOU dont know him.

    But he is a legend none the less. He lead the teams that won the 3 first Alliance tournaments for BoB.

    You call that luck and anything but skill, but i'll call it skill.

    Look up Farjung while you are at it. He left around that time to. He made some vids you can find on YouTube. Call tath luck as well if you want.

    If you want something more current legends, take a look at the Rooks & Kings vids.

    "no skill needed" my ass!

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse
    Originally posted by Muke

     

    skill > gear.

     

    Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.

    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation.

    ----

    EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself.

     

    Garmon

    Everyone in HYDRA RELOADED

    image

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Thane

    so... i dont get it.

     

    what is this post/thread about? another eve hater thread?

    love it or leave it - that's the ONLY FUCKING WAY GAMES WORK.

     

     

    now cry somewhere else, your mommies might care.

    TL;DR Buying game money doesn't let you win at the game

    image

  • KrematoryKrematory Member UncommonPosts: 608
    [mod edit]

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432

     


    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse

    Originally posted by Quesa

    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse

    Originally posted by Muke   skill > gear.   Once they realize this they start running back to Blizzard in a hurry.
    Just that there is no skill needed in EvE. I never once heard of a skilled EvE player at all. After 10 years there should be some Legends out there so skilled in PvP its scary. But no, there are not because all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation. ---- EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself.
    The people who are incredibly good at combat, ie: knowing ranges, transversals and weaknesses of hulls/weapons/electronic systems are and playing to those.  Single players don't often stand out in a game that, more often than not, are fleeting up to fight with a hundred people.  In those battles, single players rarely shine.   However, nullSec entities can often give you a handful of names of those who really do well in certain hulls or encounters.  I can name two from my own alliance that are some of the best interceptor pilots I've ever known, those who stay alive doing ridiculously dangerous things - and not coincidentally staying alive, I'm talking about repeatedly doing dangerous things and coming out as a survivor while performing a beneficial role in a larger engagement. You're issue is that you're looking for a handful of names that are the 'best' in a game full of different paths and combat is only a small fraction, albeit the most visual, of the game.   "EvE is either gank or run. There is no skill, stop kidding yourself." This statement is one of the most uninformed statements that seems to be constantly made about EO and wreaks of someone who has little knowledge or experience in the game at all.
    8 years, 100mil+ SP on 3 characters, lived in null with PL and NC, was part of the Delve war in 2009 and many more, lived in a Class 4 Wormhole with high sec exit and in a deep Class 5 with 2 exits to class 6 and class 3. ---- Little knowledge, yeah, try again.
    Anyone can be a grunt and never recognize what's going on.  I have been around the game for the same time, have about the same (maybe a bit higher) SP and with PL/NC, part of the Delve War, the Northern War (many Northern wars), Fountain War and Wars in the South.   But all that means exactly jack shit if all I did was log in and fly with the masses.

     

    You can recognize those who shine if you're looking for it.  Do you know who Chirbba is?  If you know who he is then he's someone that excelled in an aspect of the game and is well known.  Do you know who The Mittani is?  If you answered yes then you know someone who excelled in the political aspect of the game.  Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

    There are always people that shine.  You could even probably produce a list of people who you enjoyed flying with over others, those people had social or tactical skills in Eve which aided in your enjoyment through the social or combat aspects of the game.

    Additionally, "all battles are decided before they even start and no one starts a battle if they know they will lose which is a simple spreadsheet calculation" is a gross oversimplification of the entire game and would just about sum up any game with a PvP element. Not getting into a battle you know you're going to lose is just part of a game with real loss. However, there have been a ridiculous amount of battles won by entities with confidence and familiarity of their doctrine over those with 2-3 times as many numbers with junior FCs or poorly fit or fleets full of non-standard doctrines.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432

    Furthermore, the game is more about achieving goals and in a game like EO you usually need a group behind you in order to achieve those goals.  There are plenty of entities out there that are more noticeable than others, that is more important than finding a list of people who are 'elite' over the rest of the blob.

    You mentioned PL and NC as some type of monument to you're 'knowledge' of the game which implies those entities are something special in the game.  So even there you contradict the main point of your ridiculous post.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    Have you played the game at all beyond logging in and shooting some poorly scripted mission rats?

     

    I ask this because the question was directed at the person I quoted and The Mittani will likely be an enigma to anyone that hasn't played the game for a period of time and at a certain level.  If you haven't, then you don't have the proper information to make even an uniformed opinion of him or his impact on 0.0 politics.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Member Posts: 338
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    When did social engineering not take skill? =P

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Quesa
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    Have you played the game at all beyond logging in and shooting some poorly scripted mission rats?

     

    I ask this because the question was directed at the person I quoted and The Mittani will likely be an enigma to anyone that hasn't played the game for a period of time and at a certain level.  If you haven't, then you don't have the proper information to make even an uniformed opinion of him or his impact on 0.0 politics.

    So you think trying to get a psychologically fragile person to commit suicide takes skill and is ok in your books? Or was his skill in publically encouraging others to harass the guy?

    Only a game though right?

  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Member Posts: 338
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    Have you played the game at all beyond logging in and shooting some poorly scripted mission rats?

     

    I ask this because the question was directed at the person I quoted and The Mittani will likely be an enigma to anyone that hasn't played the game for a period of time and at a certain level.  If you haven't, then you don't have the proper information to make even an uniformed opinion of him or his impact on 0.0 politics.

    So you think trying to get a psychologically fragile person to commit suicide takes skill and is ok in your books? Or was his skill in publically encouraging others to harass the guy?

    Only a game though right?

    If anonymous people on a video game can make someone kill themselves, chances are likely quite high they would have done so anyway. There's no requirement to enter your medical history when logging into a game, so it's a no-fault argument.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Game can be P2W just not in the traditional mmo sense. I can max out cruiser skills buy a bunch of moderate cruiser and go out and screw with people to my hearts content without a care if I lose a few ships. Whereas someone not buying isk has to work the market, mine, mission to get back whatever I can destroy of theirs.

    I know corps that bought isk to buy materials to speed up production, buy station parts, buy transports, etc....

    Just not P2W in that you buy the best stuff and now you are the best. Those with more cash can just get more done faster than you can.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852

    Eve is NOT a P2W game. EVE's RMT is different  in that CCP is more like a broker between players. So it's a 3 party transaction. In EVE' RMT, a bigger advantage goes to the player selling  game time, NOT the purchaser. So, if you have enough in-game resources to farm and sell PLEX, YOU have a bigger advantage, than the ones buying it from you.

     

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    Have you played the game at all beyond logging in and shooting some poorly scripted mission rats?

     

    I ask this because the question was directed at the person I quoted and The Mittani will likely be an enigma to anyone that hasn't played the game for a period of time and at a certain level.  If you haven't, then you don't have the proper information to make even an uniformed opinion of him or his impact on 0.0 politics.

    So you think trying to get a psychologically fragile person to commit suicide takes skill and is ok in your books? Or was his skill in publically encouraging others to harass the guy?

    Only a game though right?

    If anonymous people on a video game can make someone kill themselves, chances are likely quite high they would have done so anyway. There's no requirement to enter your medical history when logging into a game, so it's a no-fault argument.

    Damn, I don't even play the game but know more about it then you.

    Ignorance is bliss!

  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492

    I may not be an Eve fan but I know that just buying the best and not knowing how to play will get you what happened to this guy.

    So no sympathy from me.  For Eve and other games, learn to play first!

  • FishmittsFishmitts Member CommonPosts: 227
    Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2

    I've stopped playing EVE  5 years ago, and I don't remember it being P2W?  What good is a trillion isk cruiser if you're only a few months old?    Perhaps buying PLEX to then use the isk to buy a 6-7 year old toon, other then that EVE isn't P2W, the game has become a cluster of multi clienting, where 80,000 players online actually equals to 40,000.  

     

      On a side note why even post about EVE-Online?  It's not really getting any new blood and it's going down the pipe hole by the end of 2015 / Q1 2016.   CCP are like GM / Ford, they thought being the kings of the road for so long, they had plenty of opportunities to change their way of doing business, yet they are now getting screwed by newer, refined technologies.  EVE-Online "WAS" great 7-8 years ago, but they've done nada to improve the game besides adding new useless ships and more skills.    3 games are releasing in 2015, that will fade EVE-Online's once upon time awesomeness down the drain. 

     

      It's a real shame, because EVE had a lot of potential, but CCP decided to use that potential and create lame spin off games that aren't doing anywhere near as good as people expected.    Dust 514 will get blown away by Blizzard's Destiny in a heart beat.  EVE Valkyrie, they decide to give this a go now when 2 major releases will blow it away in 2015.   

     

      Star Citizen has way over a million people that pre ordered the game, while EVE-Online doesn't even have half a million subs after 10+ years of existence.   More people are playing and enjoying Space Engineers then EVE-Online, and the bloody thing is still in Alpha.    EVE-Online is a dead cause, there is no denying it, CCP had multiple chances of making EVE "THE" sci-fi game for the next 20-30 years, but they blew it, BIG TIME! 

    While I agree with most of yer post I will have to correct you.. SC has a little less than half a mill. 489705 to be exact and not counting multi subs.

     

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Datawarlock
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     


     Now, do you think you could have done better than The Mittani in the political side of the game?  If you answered no, then it's obvious that your statements "there is no skill needed in Eve" and "I never once heard of a skilled Eve player at all" are absurd and obscene lies of omission just to push your own bias.

     

    Never heard of the others but isn't the Mittani the guy who told someone to kill themselves in real life?

    Who harassed and publically humiliated the player in an attempt to make him commit suicide?

    Who encouraged others to harass the guy so that he would kill himself?

    skill huh?

    Have you played the game at all beyond logging in and shooting some poorly scripted mission rats?

     

    I ask this because the question was directed at the person I quoted and The Mittani will likely be an enigma to anyone that hasn't played the game for a period of time and at a certain level.  If you haven't, then you don't have the proper information to make even an uniformed opinion of him or his impact on 0.0 politics.

    So you think trying to get a psychologically fragile person to commit suicide takes skill and is ok in your books? Or was his skill in publically encouraging others to harass the guy?

    Only a game though right?

    If anonymous people on a video game can make someone kill themselves, chances are likely quite high they would have done so anyway. There's no requirement to enter your medical history when logging into a game, so it's a no-fault argument.

    Damn, I don't even play the game but know more about it then you.

    Ignorance is bliss!

    If you think he's showing ignorance then I'm not sure what you're showing.  You have to be a grown up to play the game, oh my, what a horrible thing.

    I'm going to assume you don't even know the context or what the target of the comment said on the public forums...of course not because that would mean you would actually need knowledge of a topic you were discussing.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Quesa

     

    If you think he's showing ignorance then I'm not sure what you're showing.  You have to be a grown up to play the game, oh my, what a horrible thing.

    I'm going to assume you don't even know the context or what the target of the comment said on the public forums...of course not because that would mean you would actually need knowledge of a topic you were discussing.

    What happened displayed the best display of childish behaviour out there...sadistic childish behaviour but certainly not something I would consider an adult, or at least a mature well adjusted adult would be capable of.

    So I would argue that the game is not filled with adults at all.

    As for the context of the discussion I think I know enough.

    Someone was scammed and expressed their annoyance. They were publically roasted by certain parts of the community who then decided to target the individual and through in game and out of game avenues attempted to force the player into trying to kill themselves. The wider community heard, were horrified, created a fuss, CCP took action and banned the main offender and it gained enough exposure for mainstream media to report on the abuse.

    What did I miss in my summary?

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quesa

     

    If you think he's showing ignorance then I'm not sure what you're showing.  You have to be a grown up to play the game, oh my, what a horrible thing.

    I'm going to assume you don't even know the context or what the target of the comment said on the public forums...of course not because that would mean you would actually need knowledge of a topic you were discussing.

    What happened displayed the best display of childish behaviour out there...sadistic childish behaviour but certainly not something I would consider an adult, or at least a mature well adjusted adult would be capable of.

    So I would argue that the game is not filled with adults at all.

    As for the context of the discussion I think I know enough.

    Someone was scammed and expressed their annoyance. They were publically roasted by certain parts of the community who then decided to target the individual and through in game and out of game avenues attempted to force the player into trying to kill themselves. The wider community heard, were horrified, created a fuss, CCP took action and banned the main offender and it gained enough exposure for mainstream media to report on the abuse.

    What did I miss in my summary?

    The guy "The Wis" was going through a bad time but a later conversation with him showed that while he was hurt by the statement and publishing of his email, he wasn't going to commit suicide and there wasn't really anything he wanted to do despite apparently being approached by multiple lawyers.

    While not excusing the behavior, of which I think was pretty terrible, he was drunk and the culture of harrassment or trolling of other players isn't mutually exclusive to EO.  Many times have I observed people in a half of a dozen MMOs in the past 3-5 years tell someone in global chat "kill yourself' or 'jump off a bridge'.  The biggest difference is it was made public at an official CCP event (which is why they were compelled to remove him from the CSM and ban him for a time).

    The 'wider' community blew the entire thing out of proportion which is what you and others continue to do today.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • DeddmeatDeddmeat Member UncommonPosts: 387

    So many said UO would die due to newer games, strangely it's still going, it's still a sub game and i'm guessing EvE will be the same. No matter about the new games coming out, it will still retain it's pb.

    image

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