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Dare to compare? Black Desert vs Archeage

M4koM4ko Member Posts: 385

So it's a Korean MMOrpg with lots of similarities to other Korean games.

Graphics are much better in BD. Animations also seem to be better.  What other aspects can be compared?

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Comments

  • PigozzPigozz Member UncommonPosts: 862

    Better combat

    Very complex NPC interaction

    Worse housing (if they go hybrid instanced/noninstanced than remove this con)

    Mounted combat

    It has parkour (aka assasins creed)

    less complex crafting (theres not much info about crafting)

    eve like economics

    probably smaller, though more detailed world - but this is just a guess

    everything is seamless including dungeons

    no flying mounts

    naval combat in development

    MMOs played chronologically:
    Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
    Most fun: Tabula Rasa
    image

  • M4koM4ko Member Posts: 385

    I saw a housing video, which included crafting. Crafting is sort of complex. You have to gather different types of materials, you then have to have recipes, different type of crafting requires different type of housing upgrades and and items in which you craft, such as cauldrons, anvils and such. You can also hire NPC workers to do crafting

     

    Other PROs - Automated trading system by NPC caravans, which can be attacked. You can hire NPCs to attack caravans too.

     

    reading the Russian dev forum, I notice how people are dissatisfied with Archeage in comparison to BD

  • loulakiloulaki Member UncommonPosts: 944
    Originally posted by Pigozz

    Better combat

    Very complex NPC interaction

    Worse housing (if they go hybrid instanced/noninstanced than remove this con)

    Mounted combat

    It has parkour (aka assasins creed)

    less complex crafting (theres not much info about crafting)

    eve like economics

    probably smaller, though more detailed world - but this is just a guess

    everything is seamless including dungeons

    no flying mounts

    naval combat in development

     

     well everything is confirmed from my knowledge, just to add that housing it will become hybrid and that crafting is deep but also weird, considering the fact you need to hire workers ...

    image

  • GillleanGilllean Member Posts: 169
    Archage is trash    after 2 months all servers are LOW population you must be a total idiot to bieleve this game is worth a penny
  • wormedwormed Member UncommonPosts: 470
    Originally posted by Gilllean
    Archage is trash    after 2 months all servers are LOW population you must be a total idiot to bieleve this game is worth a penny

    All servers? You mean the one alpha server? Where they just banned 16,000 bots? ... yea, totally a dead game. :/ Troll or downright stupid, hard to tell.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,387

    Black Desert looks like a much better game to me on the surface.

    but, who knows when us here in the west will even be able to play it.

    at least I know I should get to try Archeage sometime this yr

     

  • hatboxhatbox Member UncommonPosts: 45
    imageOriginally posted by Gilllean
    Archage is trash    after 2 months all servers are LOW population you must be a total idiot to bieleve this game is worth a penny

    All servers?  There was ONE Alpha server open. Just one.  They recently opened one more server for Alpha due to overcrowding. There were three times the number of people on the server than it was intended to hold. You really should know what you're talking about before you make these statements. 

  • aslan132aslan132 Member UncommonPosts: 588

    Sure we can try to compare. At this stage of both games it would be hard to be accurate, but you can at least try to compare the things we do know. With Archeage, sure its released already in parts of the world, but with NA version still Alpha, we dont know what the release version will be. There have already been major changes from the KN or RU versions to the NA, so take that for what it is. With Black Desert, it just finished, what, CBT2? in Korea. The RU and the NA version will definately be heavily changed from the Korean version as well, and the NA version is most likely a year or two away. So again, try to compare if you like, but everything thats stated here is subject to change before either game is actually launched.

     

    That being said, lets start:

     

    Graphics, Environment, and Character models. Honestly, some may disagree here, but they are so similar they could be copy/pasted and interchanged. The edge up here goes to BD just because of the character creation, but the graphics themselves are not better or worse than AA. Also the weather systems in BD far outweigh other MMOs, I love the "wet" look during and after rains, and places are left muddy with puddles. This is unique to BD, and a huge plus, even though the actual textures arent any better than other MMOs, like AA.

     

    Classes in AA are combined from multiple skill lines, which gives you about 120 different class choices, in BD CBT2 there were 4. Not only that, but BD will have gender locked classes. Some of the classes sound like gender counterparts, male warriors to female valkaries, and male wizards to female sorceresses, but they will have unique abilities and wont truly be equal counterparts, so yes, fully gender locked classes.. Thats a huge negative here.

     

    Housing in AA is full open world. Even farming is tied into the housing land available and it means real estate is a very important part of the game. In BD housinig will be instanced, which means anyone can have it, and its not contested. What it does have is the tents. These work similar to AA farms, in that you place them in the open world, and you can farm and cultivate around it. Unlike AA though, when you are done with it, or moving on to the next location, you can just pack it up and take it with you. That means the land is open world use, but not nearly as contested as AA in that housing/farming plots are permanent, and there doesnt seem to be a tax or upkeep to the tents. I wont mark this one in either games favor, since some people will be happy they can have a house without fighting over the land, although I will say, that I feel AA is more "sandbox" with this feature having open world housing and not instanced, and the permanance of the land use, making it contested and highly sought after.

     

    Combat This is one again people will have mixed feeling about. Combat in BD is much faster paced and requires alot more button presses, and some would argue "skill", to be effective. AA combat harkens back to MMOs of old, with multiple hotkey bars, and button mashing, and moving away from the new action combat of roll dodging, blocking and limited skill sets. BD is trying to use key combos to get that "arcade" feel, but if anyone remembers Age of Conan, that system is doomed to fail. Sure its unique and fun at first, but pressing a million key combos to kill every single trash mob you come to gets very repeatative and boring. This in the end makes combat a chore, not something that is fun and exciting. Luckily, they have a limited skill hotbar you can use, to add a small number of skills, to alleviate the massive button pressing from combos, so in the end that could save them. The biggest flaw in combat comes from no healers. Combat in its current state requires potion spamming, and in many fights the victor is the one with more potions, not skill. Hopefully this gets corrected at some point, but until it does, BD combat is doomed to fail.

     

    Leveling in AA comes naturally. You get a decent amount from grinding mobs, and huge chunks from questing. Its pretty common fair these days, but its nice that they give players the option, instead of requiring all questing, or all grinding. In BD right now, its 100% pure Asian grind. Questing offers zero xp at all, so ALL leveling comes from mob grinding. This is a huge negative, and subject to change, but if it doesnt, will drive away nearly all players but the most dedicated grinders.

     

    PVP i will skip over, because BD as of now doesnt have a working PVP system. Also tied into PVP is the castle siege system, which is incomplete and currently doesnt work in BD, so you cant compare it to AA, which has both a very full working PVP system and castle sieging system.

     

    Auction house in BD is very small and limited to the area around it. This means there is alot of traveling to find just the goods you need, and limited both supply and demand, and it takes alot more work from the supplies to advertise which town you need to be in as well. In AA, the auction house is cross-server. This means a very wide supply and demand structure, which some will argue means lower prices, but not necessarily. As supply grows from having multiple servers worth of people listing items, so does demand, with the same number of people buying those items. The difference here is the convenience of being able to find the item you are looking for. In BD you have to be at exactly the right place at the right time, and talk to the right person, in my book, this is a huge negative.

     

    For any other systems I missed, like crafting, I just dont know much about, so I left it out. Feel free to compare them for yourselves, or just wait until theres more information. For a more indepth look at Black Desert to expand on the things I have written here, check out this guys hands-on impressions of the beta. He covers way more, and shows alot of footage of the things hes talking about. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqlLe4Nhn-U

  • AmateAmate Member Posts: 88
    Originally posted by aslan132

     PVP i will skip over, because BD as of now doesnt have a working PVP system. Also tied into PVP is the castle siege system, which is incomplete and currently doesnt work in BD, so you cant compare it to AA, which has both a very full working PVP system and castle sieging system.

     I don't know why you would say this when there is countless videos of CBT1 and 2 showing sieges and PvP. Artillery and everything was already working. There was also a karma system already present for open warfare, much like L2, which has arguably more depth than a limited faction vs faction.

    Auction house in BD is very small and limited to the area around it. This means there is alot of traveling to find just the goods you need, and limited both supply and demand, and it takes alot more work from the supplies to advertise which town you need to be in as well. In AA, the auction house is cross-server. This means a very wide supply and demand structure, which some will argue means lower prices, but not necessarily. As supply grows from having multiple servers worth of people listing items, so does demand, with the same number of people buying those items. The difference here is the convenience of being able to find the item you are looking for. In BD you have to be at exactly the right place at the right time, and talk to the right person, in my book, this is a huge negative.

    It is only a negative if you don't understand the importance of economy in a open world game that wants to be as sandboxy as possible. Localized auction houses means there is much more room to play for people who want to be traders. With global AH, prices are too visible and it's usually just a game of undercutting each other.

    Whereas a localized AH gives SO much things to play with. You can for example buy something cheap in X town, such as pine wood, that is easily found in that area, and carry it all the way to Y town which by default don't have pines, to sell it for a higher price. BDO does not have any teleportation, which only reinforce the economic aspect. And this is just one scenario of how localized AH allow for much more depth.

    You could say this is one thing that departs both game. ArcheAge is an amazing game with great features don't get me wrong. But the crafting part which was supposed to be one of the main aspect of the game, feels pointless after servers are several months old because the economy is piss poor. They decided to insert a theme-park style economy in a game with lots of sandboxy features. Which is a huge waste.

     

     For any other systems I missed, like crafting, I just dont know much about, so I left it out. Feel free to compare them for yourselves, or just wait until theres more information.

    If you are interested in the crafting aspect, I made a 4 part video guide:

     

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,615
    Originally posted by M4ko

    So it's a Korean MMOrpg with lots of similarities to other Korean games.

    Graphics are much better in BD. Animations also seem to be better.  What other aspects can be compared?

    If they pull off Black Desert I and many many other will be there.  I just however don't think they can pull it off and it will feel and fail like Two Worlds back in the day.  Please though make me wrong I want the game as much as most.

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,978
    The Gender Locks are killer

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  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,540

    To me what really stands out (right now)

    AA - traditional combat (skill bars, tab target)

    BD - action combat (no skill bars - all skills are done using WASD + Q,E,F  Tab,Shift,Space and mouse clicks) 

     

    Here's a video showing actual keyboard/mouse input in Black Desert - again I think some will love this and some (used to skills mapped to keys will HATE it)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSIyFwYLgBU#t=48

     

    Many other features are almost identical (trade pack runs etc....) - the 2 games were coded by many of the same developers (lots of ex-XL games devs are at PA).

    Yes there are differences but compared to *combat* they are IMO minor.

     

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    I agree with some of the posts on here, though the comments on gender locked classes being a negative is kind of short sighted.  That's more of a gaming political hot topic than an issue.  image
  • raggnirraggnir Member UncommonPosts: 51
    people are hyped about this game for nothing, when you get to play it, you will be thrown down from your horses.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,540
    Originally posted by raggnir
    people are hyped about this game for nothing, when you get to play it, you will be thrown down from your horses.

    It will depend on each person - I really was let down by CBT1 - didn't play CBT2.

    Oh and yes - there's gonna be one poster saying how I didn't play CBT1 ... whatever, happens every time.

    Still CBT1 had major performance issues for me - I hear that CBT2 fixed many of those - still the annoying "pop-up" video issue remains, they will most likley fine tune it and fix it more.

     

    I think the combat input (watch the video in my post above) is going to be make it/break it for most players. I know I am so used to skill button assignments - hitting multiple keys at once for different attacks - just not a fan of that system personally.

    Your mileage may vary.

     

     

  • raggnirraggnir Member UncommonPosts: 51

    i'm a sandbox fan, i played both CBT1 and CBT2 (although i only played 7 hours during CBT2) and the game did not appeal at all to me. that game feels so wrong for a sandbox.. i mean there is everything, but at the same time everything feels so poor.. well that's my opinion.

    as for archeage, i really like that game. the fighting is a bit lacking but all the rest is so good that it covers up that little default

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Colt47
    I agree with some of the posts on here, though the comments on gender locked classes being a negative is kind of short sighted.  That's more of a gaming political hot topic than an issue.  image

    Women can't be priests? Men cannot be the male equivalent of courtesans? Then it is retarded like it or not.

    image
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,540
    Originally posted by raggnir

    i'm a sandbox fan, i played both CBT1 and CBT2 (although i only played 7 hours during CBT2) and the game did not appeal at all to me. that game feels so wrong for a sandbox.. i mean there is everything, but at the same time everything feels so poor.. well that's my opinion.

    as for archeage, i really like that game. the fighting is a bit lacking but all the rest is so good that it covers up that little default

    One thing that was sort of funny to me in BD is the character creator.

    Yes it is absolutely amazing - BUT - there is a dirty little secret that most don't realize - the CBT2 character creator shows much higher textures and detail - it's separate from the actual in-game characters. Once you go in game, your character get reduced to a much simpler, lower texture version than the one you created.

    That's what I heard - again I didn't play CBT2 - so I can't confirm this, but that's what I was told.

    Very sneaky of PA to do that

     

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Colt47
    I agree with some of the posts on here, though the comments on gender locked classes being a negative is kind of short sighted.  That's more of a gaming political hot topic than an issue.  image

    Women can't be priests? Men cannot be the male equivalent of courtesans? Then it is retarded like it or not.

    Actually, the more appropriate statement would be "Men can't be VALKYRIES?!  MADNESS!" 

    There is a point where this gender politicking gets kind of stupid, and from what I've seen of Black Desert the line is in the sand.  image

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Originally posted by DMKano
    One thing that was sort of funny to me in BD is the character creator.

    Yes it is absolutely amazing - BUT - there is a dirty little secret that most don't realize - the CBT2 character creator shows much higher textures and detail - it's separate from the actual in-game characters. Once you go in game, your character get reduced to a much simpler, lower texture version than the one you created.

    That's what I heard - again I didn't play CBT2 - so I can't confirm this, but that's what I was told.

    Very sneaky of PA to do that

     

    Indeed, and there is rumors, that all amazing videos of gameplay in YouTube are just abuse advertisement. In fact they have been made in Bollywood with many special effects. The real game is a low quality Java application with 256 bit color and 640/480 maximum resolution. It is just F2P crap. And PA is organization of Pakistani hackers, who want to steal the IDs and credit accounts of western players. These are only rumors, but...

  • AlexanderTDAlexanderTD Member Posts: 97

    I hope BD is not like archage in most important aspect - every game begins (and ends) for me with it's combat system. After all the visuals and trailers i vent to Archage and afterr seeing/feeling combat system it was pretty quick quit/uninstall.

    The era of "clickers" have ended long ago, about when AOC and some other involving action combat games like Terra appeared. No visuals or anything will save a game if it's combat system is bad, primitive and unininvolving 

  • zzaxzzax Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    The Gender Locks are killer

    Gender lock is plus for me (not a huge one, but still). It makes the classes feel less generic.

  • KommoKommo Member Posts: 12

    Cross-server auction house is not desirable in games like these. Such an easy way to give life and interaction to the game by having trading limited. I don't understand why game companies don't realize this. Why pretty much nuke concept of logistics and trading from sandbox game. Especially if it's PvP focused game, ugh. Didn't know Archage was case of this.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,540

    I have very little knowledge of BD so far but what i have seen none looks very good.

    The animations/combat are more in line with arcade type action which i don't like it looks too cheesy.The animations are that 100mph spam type again not what i like.The buildings/structures look a typical Korean meaningless 2d structures but i would have to see a lot more to know if this is common throughout the game or not.

    Me personally i am always looking for a good new game but it is not about comparing to other games but it has to justify itself on it's own accord.

    I simply don't have enough on BD yet to know weather i would like it.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Drunk-fuDrunk-fu Member UncommonPosts: 133

    Meh, i've typed two pages worth of text just to flush it with the "back" button...

    Anyway, i don't know much about either of these games, though i'm in the OBT of AA.

    Im yet to see what it holds late game.

    Because the starting zone is what i've seen in 999 other mmo, just with a lot more bug.

    Like an NPC talking to you in English, the switching to Korean at the next sentence.

     

    At the other hand, i don't expect being able to play BD in the near future within EU.

    But after watching a few video i can tell, im going to love BD's combat system over AA's for sure.

    So as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

     

    Also, sad as it is, by the time we get our hands on it, we will look forward for another upcoming title, and so on.

    -

    I'd rather compare it to Boobs & Soul though. The combat and art style is closer to that one.

    I just hope it won't be another game that can be "finished" with just using a single skill continously, combined with 1-2 auto attack to regen "rage". Because B&S's action combat is degraded to such extent, even a monkey could reach endgame.

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