If an item is for your class and its better than the one you have, then select Need, if however its an item you want for your companion, then select greed, unless you ask the other players first if you can 'need' the item and they agree to it, if you just go ahead and need it without explaining why first, especially if its not your class item, then 99% of the time there will be a vote kick.
Its a good thing too, if it is your first time on a particular flashpoint etc, to let the others know, that way there will be less misunderstandings caused by people assuming you know what your doing, and your more likely to get help/advice at appropriate times.
This kind of thing just makes up part of the basic 'etiquette' of pugs etc, and pretty much applies to any game including WoW/FFXIV;ARR.
Originally posted by Impacthound I think they mentioned revamping the NEED/GREED rolling system in the last Cantina event Q&A. There's no ETA on when it's going to be live, so it won't be in place until 2015 at least, but in the future you won't be able to roll need on Aim pieces as an Agent for example. The game needed this in 2012 honeslty, but better late than never I guess.
What happens when you "need" an item that has a stat your companion can us. Frankly the system is fine, people just feel entitled when it should just be a straight up fair roll for everyone.
Then you hit greed, because you don't need the item.
It all depends what class you are. Aim is a min stat, if you arn't an aim using class (BH/Commando), then you have absolutly no buisness rolling need on an item with Aim on it.
What class are you? I am guessing its not an Aim using one, seeing as you looked up your class's specs, and subsequently considered Aim an "un needed "extra" stat". Why did you even create this thread? lol.
I didnt force you to post here, if you didnt find any merit on this topic you just could have walked away and no one would have even notice you passed through here.
Like I said before I was following one of those guide online where stated the stats I needed, so the item had 4 of the stats better than the one I had at that time but had an extra stat for aim and I was not sure if that stat would be something I needed later or not, to be frankly honest the next day I read another guide that said I needed aim for my Jedi Shadow, that is m y toon, so I have 2 different guides saying 2 different things and I cannot post in the main forum to ask for advice.
It all depends what class you are. Aim is a min stat, if you arn't an aim using class (BH/Commando), then you have absolutly no buisness rolling need on an item with Aim on it.
What class are you? I am guessing its not an Aim using one, seeing as you looked up your class's specs, and subsequently considered Aim an "un needed "extra" stat". Why did you even create this thread? lol.
I didnt force you to post here, if you didnt find any merit on this topic you just could have walked away and no one would have even notice you passes through here.
We still don't know what class you are. I asked a couple of legitimate questions. The only reason I replied the way I did, is because you made a huge flabergasted post about being kicked for "no reason", when you were probably 100% in the wrong. If you really "just wanted to know", your post would have been much different. I mean, your subject starts with a capital "LOL".
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Originally posted by sirphobos If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
All that is telling you is that Aim is a primary stat. It doesn't mean all classes use it. The only classes that benefit from Aim are Troopers and Bounty Hunters. A Shadow/Consular should not equip any gear that does not have Willpower.
Originally posted by sirphobos If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
It doesnt clearly state that at all, it actually states that shadow should never use aim..read my last post. You are absolutly 100% wrong.
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
...thats my point...you are completely in the wrong, but you are being snotty and sarcatic about it, rather than legitimatly looking for assistance.
Did you boyther to read where it says since ver 2.72 Managing primary mentions AIM as the first stat you need? How am I been sarcastic about anything when you were the one coming here bashing me?
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
All that is telling you is that Aim is a primary stat. It doesn't mean all classes use it. The only classes that benefit from Aim are Troopers and Bounty Hunters. A Shadow/Consular should not equip any gear that does not have Willpower.
He only copied the introduction, dont mind him. Further down on that page where it actually talks about shadow, it lists the proper stat pririty, never mentioning Aim.
Originally posted by sirphobos If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
It doesnt clearly state that at all, it actually states that shadow should never use aim..read my last post. You are absolutly 100% wrong.
English is not my first language so what I read in that guide is that I need AIM as the first stat, no where I see anything saying dont use AIM?
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
...thats my point...you are completely in the wrong, but you are being snotty and sarcatic about it, rather than legitimatly looking for assistance.
Did you boyther to read where it says since ver 2.72 Managing primary mentions AIM as the first stat you need? How am I been sarcastic about anything when you were the one coming here bashing me?
It says managing stat priority is your first step, then lists all of the possible main stats. You are completely misreading it....it says further down that shadow priority is Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)
You are wrong here, thats fine, just please stop being sarcastic about it.
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
All that is telling you is that Aim is a primary stat. It doesn't mean all classes use it. The only classes that benefit from Aim are Troopers and Bounty Hunters. A Shadow/Consular should not equip any gear that does not have Willpower.
He only copied the introduction, dont mind him. Further down on that page where it actually talks about shadow, it lists the proper stat pririty, never mentioning Aim.
Ah, Yes I only read the first part and I ran away with that, didnt know that there was a mention about not using AIM
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
...thats my point...you are completely in the wrong, but you are being snotty and sarcatic about it, rather than legitimatly looking for assistance.
Did you boyther to read where it says since ver 2.72 Managing primary mentions AIM as the first stat you need? How am I been sarcastic about anything when you were the one coming here bashing me?
You are completely, 100% wrong, and everyone is telling you you are wrong. Why do you continue to argue? I played SW:TOR for over a year and played a Shadow Tank, I never once equipped a piece of gear with Aim because it is ridiculous for a Shadow to do so, because Aim does not help you.
If you're that convinced that you benefit from Aim, here's a challenge for you: equip gear in every slot that is Aim/Endurance, and see how powerful your character is. Also, I'm pretty sure if you hover over your ratings in your character window, it will tell you what stats are used to calculate your score. Note that none of them mention Aim.
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
...thats my point...you are completely in the wrong, but you are being snotty and sarcatic about it, rather than legitimatly looking for assistance.
Did you boyther to read where it says since ver 2.72 Managing primary mentions AIM as the first stat you need? How am I been sarcastic about anything when you were the one coming here bashing me?
It says managing stat priority is your first step, then lists all of the possible main stats. You are completely misreading it....it says further down that shadow priority is Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)
You are wrong here, thats fine, just please stop being sarcastic about it.
Ah, I see, I am sorry, that is what I got from it, that long list of stats is not what I suppose to do?
Originally posted by sirphobos If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
It doesnt clearly state that at all, it actually states that shadow should never use aim..read my last post. You are absolutly 100% wrong.
English is not my first language so what I read in that guide is that I need AIM as the first stat, no where I see anything saying dont use AIM?
I already quoted the stat priority section. Still cant see it on that page?
Originally posted by sirphobos If you were a Shadow (which uses Willpower), I'd say your group was justified to kick you for rolling need on Aim gear. I probably would have done the same, though at low levels maybe I wouldn't have cared as much.
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
It doesnt clearly state that at all, it actually states that shadow should never use aim..read my last post. You are absolutly 100% wrong.
English is not my first language so what I read in that guide is that I need AIM as the first stat, no where I see anything saying dont use AIM?
I already quoted the stat priority section. Still cant see it on that page?
Oh thanks, good to know, I am really screwed on my stats, time to redo my gear, thanks for pointing that out, I could swear I thought that the long list is what I needed, I am an idiot, that is why I got kicked out, lol
The need and greed system is probably the worst MMO feature of all. It confuses noobs, makes it easier for ninjas and leads to endless bickering.
Please enlighten us with your solution for this.
Simple. On every kill you get a badge. You can buy loot from loot vendors. Problem is that games with such a system, like GW2, make it retardedly long to get a good item from that. But that's what you get when you let the maple story people decide how your game is gonna work.
As 'fair' as that system is, I'd be a little sad that it eliminates the traditional RNG-based lottery-esque feel of loot and instead implements what is essentially a tally system. I at least want a chance to pick up that dreaded worthless Rusty Dagger following that ages-long epic battle with the nearly invincible boss =P
Though, if someone does copy WoW's justice/valor system, don't go with badges XD They're boring... Severed heads has always been a tried and true bounty formula.
Honestly, not being able to Need if your character can't use the item works well enough. I'd take that a step further and say gray out that option if it's primary stat doesn't coincide with your spec. Off-specs, alts, companions, RPgear, for-a-friend, GTN, etc. should never get priority over someone who needs it for the role they're in atm--and you can always ask to trade if a greed roll doesn't pan out.
Kind of hard to gear up an alt via dungeon/raid loot anyway as most of that stuff is BoP.
Well, this need/greed BS is just bad game design, nothing else.
In every FP i hear this whining and people, especialy newcomers, getting kicked.
There are other solutions, but SWTOR didnt chose to use them.
Nobody gets kicked for rolling need on gear that they need. The (pretty much) only time they get kicked, is for rolling on gear that they cannot use, such as the OP.
Most alternatives have been tried in all other games, and while not perfect by any means, need/greed is the "best" solution for randomized pugs. If you have a better suggestion, please elaborate, because just simply saying "There are other solutions, but SWTOR didnt chose to use them" doesnt really mean anything.
Happens alot in swtor as players roll on stuff for their alts or companions. If it was my group and it was a piece of gear somebody else needed I would have just explained to the OP and have them traded it before booting. Loot binds has a timer for mistakes while grouped once you're out it's bound. Kicks are always abused more than just explaining and helping fellow or new gamers.
The need/greed system works just fine. It's the people using it that cause problems.
I've been in groups where people have all kinds of complicated rules that do more to confuse the simple system than simplify it.
If everyone stuck to if it's for your class and is an upgrade to what you have roll need. If it's for any other reason roll greed, these types of problems wouldn't happen. Not freaking out and communicating if there is a mix up would also stop a lot of groups from splitting up before finishing a flashpoint and wasting everyones time.
Comments
If an item is for your class and its better than the one you have, then select Need, if however its an item you want for your companion, then select greed, unless you ask the other players first if you can 'need' the item and they agree to it, if you just go ahead and need it without explaining why first, especially if its not your class item, then 99% of the time there will be a vote kick.
Its a good thing too, if it is your first time on a particular flashpoint etc, to let the others know, that way there will be less misunderstandings caused by people assuming you know what your doing, and your more likely to get help/advice at appropriate times.
This kind of thing just makes up part of the basic 'etiquette' of pugs etc, and pretty much applies to any game including WoW/FFXIV;ARR.
Then you hit greed, because you don't need the item.
I didnt force you to post here, if you didnt find any merit on this topic you just could have walked away and no one would have even notice you passed through here.
Like I said before I was following one of those guide online where stated the stats I needed, so the item had 4 of the stats better than the one I had at that time but had an extra stat for aim and I was not sure if that stat would be something I needed later or not, to be frankly honest the next day I read another guide that said I needed aim for my Jedi Shadow, that is m y toon, so I have 2 different guides saying 2 different things and I cannot post in the main forum to ask for advice.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
We still don't know what class you are. I asked a couple of legitimate questions. The only reason I replied the way I did, is because you made a huge flabergasted post about being kicked for "no reason", when you were probably 100% in the wrong. If you really "just wanted to know", your post would have been much different. I mean, your subject starts with a capital "LOL".
You asked why I bother to create this topic and I politely told you that I didnt force you to post on it. I also edited the post to tell you that my toon is a Jedi Shadow.
And here is the link to the guide that mentions Jedi Shadow need aim
http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/jedi-consular/shadow/infiltration/stat-priority
From that link
Stat Priority (2.7.2)
Managing Primary (Aim, Cunning, Strength, Willpower) and Secondary (Accuracy, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Power, Alacrity) stats is critical for maximizing your character. Mastering your Character Stats helps you pick gear and will improve your overall effectiveness as a(n) Infiltration spec Shadow (Jedi Consular).
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Read my previous post where I linked the guide I found online where clearly states that I need AIM, why would you accuse a new player who is doing his best by spending time researching online for guides to make his character better and follow the instructions given in the above mentioned guide?
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Thats the introduction listing all of the possible main stats....
It goes on to stated that for shadow:
Stat Priority
Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)
...thats my point...you are completely in the wrong, but you are being snotty and sarcatic about it, rather than legitimatly looking for assistance.
All that is telling you is that Aim is a primary stat. It doesn't mean all classes use it. The only classes that benefit from Aim are Troopers and Bounty Hunters. A Shadow/Consular should not equip any gear that does not have Willpower.
It doesnt clearly state that at all, it actually states that shadow should never use aim..read my last post. You are absolutly 100% wrong.
Did you boyther to read where it says since ver 2.72 Managing primary mentions AIM as the first stat you need? How am I been sarcastic about anything when you were the one coming here bashing me?
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
He only copied the introduction, dont mind him. Further down on that page where it actually talks about shadow, it lists the proper stat pririty, never mentioning Aim.
English is not my first language so what I read in that guide is that I need AIM as the first stat, no where I see anything saying dont use AIM?
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
It says managing stat priority is your first step, then lists all of the possible main stats. You are completely misreading it....it says further down that shadow priority is Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)
You are wrong here, thats fine, just please stop being sarcastic about it.
Ah, Yes I only read the first part and I ran away with that, didnt know that there was a mention about not using AIM
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
You are completely, 100% wrong, and everyone is telling you you are wrong. Why do you continue to argue? I played SW:TOR for over a year and played a Shadow Tank, I never once equipped a piece of gear with Aim because it is ridiculous for a Shadow to do so, because Aim does not help you.
If you're that convinced that you benefit from Aim, here's a challenge for you: equip gear in every slot that is Aim/Endurance, and see how powerful your character is. Also, I'm pretty sure if you hover over your ratings in your character window, it will tell you what stats are used to calculate your score. Note that none of them mention Aim.
Ah, I see, I am sorry, that is what I got from it, that long list of stats is not what I suppose to do?
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
I already quoted the stat priority section. Still cant see it on that page?
That page clearly states:
Stat Priority
Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)
Oh thanks, good to know, I am really screwed on my stats, time to redo my gear, thanks for pointing that out, I could swear I thought that the long list is what I needed, I am an idiot, that is why I got kicked out, lol
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
You can use this website as a first help in stats.
It has some useful information about stats, priorities, gear etc.
http://www.noxxic.com/swtor
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
As 'fair' as that system is, I'd be a little sad that it eliminates the traditional RNG-based lottery-esque feel of loot and instead implements what is essentially a tally system. I at least want a chance to pick up that dreaded worthless Rusty Dagger following that ages-long epic battle with the nearly invincible boss =P
Though, if someone does copy WoW's justice/valor system, don't go with badges XD They're boring... Severed heads has always been a tried and true bounty formula.
Honestly, not being able to Need if your character can't use the item works well enough. I'd take that a step further and say gray out that option if it's primary stat doesn't coincide with your spec. Off-specs, alts, companions, RPgear, for-a-friend, GTN, etc. should never get priority over someone who needs it for the role they're in atm--and you can always ask to trade if a greed roll doesn't pan out.
Kind of hard to gear up an alt via dungeon/raid loot anyway as most of that stuff is BoP.
Well, this need/greed BS is just bad game design, nothing else.
In every FP i hear this whining and people, especialy newcomers, getting kicked.
There are other solutions, but SWTOR didnt chose to use them.
Nobody gets kicked for rolling need on gear that they need. The (pretty much) only time they get kicked, is for rolling on gear that they cannot use, such as the OP.
Most alternatives have been tried in all other games, and while not perfect by any means, need/greed is the "best" solution for randomized pugs. If you have a better suggestion, please elaborate, because just simply saying "There are other solutions, but SWTOR didnt chose to use them" doesnt really mean anything.
Happens alot in swtor as players roll on stuff for their alts or companions. If it was my group and it was a piece of gear somebody else needed I would have just explained to the OP and have them traded it before booting. Loot binds has a timer for mistakes while grouped once you're out it's bound. Kicks are always abused more than just explaining and helping fellow or new gamers.
The need/greed system works just fine. It's the people using it that cause problems.
I've been in groups where people have all kinds of complicated rules that do more to confuse the simple system than simplify it.
If everyone stuck to if it's for your class and is an upgrade to what you have roll need. If it's for any other reason roll greed, these types of problems wouldn't happen. Not freaking out and communicating if there is a mix up would also stop a lot of groups from splitting up before finishing a flashpoint and wasting everyones time.