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My personal views on the viability of ESO

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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,774
    @phry wildstar didn't even try to sell physical copies. They must have known not many would be interested. They sold 0 physical copies. Probably smart, who would go searching for the box of a unknown IP with a funny looking rabbit on the cover holding a toy gun?
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,000
    Originally posted by bcbully
    @phry wildstar didn't even try to sell physical copies. They must have known not many would be interested. They sold 0 physical copies. Probably smart, who would go searching for the box of a unknown IP with a funny looking rabbit on the cover holding a toy gun?

    Well, for a company that wasn't trying to sell physical copies, they seem to be doing remarkably well at it, i do think though that the initial pricing may be one of the reasons for this. For the UK at least, there aren't really any retail stores that sell PC games, so if you want to get a physical copy of a game then companies like Amazon etc. are the only choices open to you. But it has long been my opinion that if a game is going to be P2P then the box price should reflect this, and not try to charge AAA single player console game prices.image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu

    OK, I'll admit that I could be wrong about relatively poor numbers and sub retention (relative to other AAA MMORPGs). But bet I'm not. Anyone want to take me up on that? I'll be bookmarking this thread too, and with confidence.

    BTW, with megaserver tech seeing a local pop'n is also meaningless in terns of proof of overall subs, as the numbers of active servers may have dropped 100 fold and you'd never know.

     

    I think there is probably more people that agree than disagree  with you OP,  however some of these guys are heavily invested in the game or with their reputations on these boards for defending ESO.  Besides, no one likes to hear "I told you so".  I think this game has probably seen it's biggest bulk of people who have left the game already.  The question is, which number is currently more now?  The people that are still leaving due to canceling subs or new people coming in?  Of course these are questions we will probably never have the answer to.  However sometimes you can just tell when a game is not doing well by looking at all of the reviews about it and the forums activity and behavior from both fans and people with critiques and concerns.  There are also other ways to observe trends in the game's popularity with gamers, which equals money for the game studio and publisher.  Take each one of those elements individually and it's not really a good measure.  However, when you combine all of those elements you can get a pretty detailed sense of the bigger picture.  Some can see it easily, others will just refuse to see it at all.

    Other's who never bought this game feel that some of you need to get over it and move on...  You've been here for months saying this same stuff over and over, that's a general you not exactly you in general. It says a lot when the game that is "bad" gets so much more attention than the game that's supposed to be a success right now, something is drawing your interest away from it onto this one, if it has your attention it's definitely not a failing, failing is falling into irrelevance and closing down.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747

    @Joeyjojoshabadu
     

    You turned up in May to promote Wildstar, lets get real here, this is from a previous post of yours:

     "played ESO since beta, bought the game, subbed, but ultimately unsubbed due to various reasons,"

    You have left ESO but now want us to move with you to WS. We don't want to, quite happy here, please go away.

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  • Astro6Astro6 Member UncommonPosts: 240

    They only have themselves to blame the end game is horrible grindfest, the bugs keep building up and never get sorted out they fix one bug and create 20 more.

    PvP is a lag fest and zerg fest after trying it for a few days i gave up i spent more time traveling than fighting also class abilities never work as advertised so they balance the game on broken abilities.

    People claim all mmo's at start have bugs well i have been in every mmo launch and never had so much trouble just trying to get quests to work they say they fixed quest in one patch only to find out that it is only partly fixed so trying it 4 or 5 times it might work lol that's not fixed.

    Same thing is happening to this game that happened to Asheron's Call 2 it's like history repeating itself all over again.

     

  • JoeyjojoshabaduJoeyjojoshabadu Member UncommonPosts: 162
    Originally posted by Scot

    @Joeyjojoshabadu
     

    You turned up in May to promote Wildstar, lets get real here, this is from a previous post of yours:

     "played ESO since beta, bought the game, subbed, but ultimately unsubbed due to various reasons,"

    You have left ESO but now want us to move with you to WS. We don't want to, quite happy here, please go away.

     

    I've tried Wildstar and wasn't that impressed. So basically you're speaking completely from your nether orifice. I'm surprised how common that is on these boards. I do have to say that most folk here are pretty decent and fair, but there is the ugly minority who jump to auto-attack, often clearly without reading or understanding the post in question, and often with absurdly nonsensical accusations. Sad really. Regarding that, it's clear the True Defenders of any game in any forum are the worst. The boards would be better if people like you left. So go away please and let the rest of us free to discuss the issues we choose.

  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Member UncommonPosts: 179
    1. Originally posted by Scot

    @Joeyjojoshabadu
     

    You turned up in May to promote Wildstar, lets get real here, this is from a previous post of yours:

     "played ESO since beta, bought the game, subbed, but ultimately unsubbed due to various reasons,"

    You have left ESO but now want us to move with you to WS. We don't want to, quite happy here, please go away.

    Or he was in beta, suspended his disbelief and bought the game in the hopes that Zeni would deliver the goods, and then was ultimately disappointed by the reality of the situation.  He now comes back here to post because somewhere inside he still feels as though there was once a possibility of a great game and there exists the possibility of redemption. Maybe...

    There are many of us in that camp.  It's the only reason I'm even reading this forum.

    OP is right.  They totally blew it.  They lost me as a paid subscriber, and that is the only metric that matters.

    Of course, that's just like my opinion, man.

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747

    The excessive grind complaint I can accept, but its a MMO, suggest the alternative. Dailies? There is no solution to end game, other than leaving, which so many do with every MMo they have played for one or two months.

    If posters said they were not still playing that's fine, but we have had threads on here with people giving an opinion of the game which is obviously out of date. Among other things OP was talking about bugs, there are hardly any left, its an outdated statement of the game.

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  • geremadygeremady Member UncommonPosts: 69

    Have you read the update 2 patchnotes?

    Enormous list and 90% are bugfixes. (some are pretty minor tho)

    Yeah sure there are no bugs left in ESO.

  • JoeyjojoshabaduJoeyjojoshabadu Member UncommonPosts: 162
    Originally posted by p4ttythep3rf3ct
    1. Originally posted by Scot

    @Joeyjojoshabadu
     

    You turned up in May to promote Wildstar, lets get real here, this is from a previous post of yours:

     "played ESO since beta, bought the game, subbed, but ultimately unsubbed due to various reasons,"

    You have left ESO but now want us to move with you to WS. We don't want to, quite happy here, please go away.

    Or he was in beta, suspended his disbelief and bought the game in the hopes that Zeni would deliver the goods, and then was ultimately disappointed by the reality of the situation.  He now comes back here to post because somewhere inside he still feels as though there was once a possibility of a great game and there exists the possibility of redemption. Maybe...

    There are many of us in that camp.  It's the only reason I'm even reading this forum.

    OP is right.  They totally blew it.  They lost me as a paid subscriber, and that is the only metric that matters.

    Of course, that's just like my opinion, man.

    Yes, this was exactly it. After playing for a month I even pushed on, spurred by hope that things would get better. I thought, as I've seen many others expressed, that "I want the game to be good, but.." and "I want to enjoy myself, but..". Isn't it so very telling that so many people have phrased it this way? Keep playing because you want to enjoy a game, but are actually not. To me that's due to the impetus of the wonderful Elder Scrolls IP. People had high hopes and were willing to go the extra mile for ESO*, but still...

     

    Even now, after so many disappointments, I still hold onto a gleam of hope that the devs can turn it around. Again, as many have said, some major changes need to be implemented, both partially in the dev's vision and in the core game structure. In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game, and though these are definitely contributory to people leaving and the games poor reception, they are not the core issues.

     

    *Oh, and no, I wasn't merely disappointed because it wasn't Skyrim Online. I shouldn't have to mention this, but some people love to throw out trite accusations like this.

  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Member UncommonPosts: 374
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu

    ESO is not doing as well as hoped/expected. I hate to make a categorical statement like that, particularly given (as has frequently been pointed out) we have no actual figures for this. But really, even those denying this must feel the truth behind it.

     

    As an ES and MMORPG fan, and former ESO fan, I've thought a lot about this game. I feel the same way as I've seen so many other state while I was playing, that "I want to have fun" or "I want the game to succeed". But by those very sentiments the game is, simply put, not good enough, we just "want" it to be.  

     

    There have been clearly multiple issues with this game that have been discussed many, many times. Most I feel seem to skirt around the core issues and point to bugs, lag, bots, VR levels and so on. To me these are just symptoms. Many MMORPGs have plenty of bugs, lag, etc but these are often forgiven in a suitably engaging game (and look, I know there will always be people who complain about these things in any MMORPG, but there is little doubt in ESO these complains have overshadowed the game to a larger degree, and there is a reason for this). I see less forgiveness for these things in ESO, which is reflected in the average/poor reception the game received in general and the rapidly falling numbers. I honestly feel if all the bugs, bots, lag, etc were completely fixed the game would still be doing poorly.

     

    I think the fundamental reason for the game's problems and reception is the design team and their vision for this game. By which I mean the team they hired to develop the game came from other MMORPGs, and they've carried their 'baggage' across. It feels so much like the fundamental ES concepts such as open world exploration has been ignored in favour of "Oh, but we did it this way when I was in the development team of the xxxxxx MMORPG".

     

    Don't mistake me, I am fully aware that, as an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online', but I feel that the focus leaned too far toward developing a fairly standard MMORPG, and this happened because devs who had worked on other MMORPGs were hired to not just support, but to lead the project. And thus we have ZOS. A better way, I feel, would have been to let Bethesda to develop and lead, while utilising the MMORPG knowledge of people such as Matt Frior, Paul Sage, et al on a consultatory basis. We'd have a game driven by the wonderful vision of Bethesda devs, but backed up by the technical MMORPG skills of Frior/Sage.

     

    To summarise: many people expected ES, at it's core, but online and were disappointed. But nevertheless, though many changes to the single player ES structure were needed to make an ES-O (including many unrealised or unexpected by ES fans), the dev team, by dint of their backgrounds, discarded an unnecessarily large component of Elder Scrolls when making the game.

     

    My personal view is that your personal view is inaccurate. 

    I didn't read after the first paragraph, please provide proof and then I can finish reading your other 5 paragraphs. Thanks.

    It's his personal opinion.   What do want him to prove exactly?  That its an opinion, that its his, or that he is who he says he is?

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910

    Whenever I need a "reality check" on ESO, I go to the Reddit subforum. There's a far more balanced view of ESO available there, and a much broader selection of views.

     

    When I read this ESO forum on MMORPG.COM, I'm left with the impression that the game is a bug-ridden (almost unplayable) mess that nobody likes or plays. However, when I read the Reddit ESO forum, I see 5 times as much activity and a general enjoyment of the game. Plenty of healthy criticism too.

     

    The MMORPG.COM forums can be quite toxic at times, because "flame-bait" threads actually rise to the top due to sorting by last activity. Reddit's feature of being able to up-vote or down-vote posts means the community decides which topics rise to the top.

  • JoeyjojoshabaduJoeyjojoshabadu Member UncommonPosts: 162
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

  • AmegashieAmegashie Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by bcbully
    @phry wildstar didn't even try to sell physical copies. They must have known not many would be interested. They sold 0 physical copies. Probably smart, who would go searching for the box of a unknown IP with a funny looking rabbit on the cover holding a toy gun?

     

    Well, they sold at least one, the one I got right here. With the funny looking rabbit holding a toy gun on the cover.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

    So many game breaking bugs in fact that no one can level. Hang on that's not actually happening is it? Can you tell me the name of one game breaking bug that is stopping anyone from playing or progressing? As for the rest of what you said, I have not commented, others have done so. We tend to zero in on what we think is important in a reply, presenting TESO as a MMO with game breaking bugs is rubbish so I have zeroed in on it.

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  • MibletMiblet Member Posts: 333
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

    So many game breaking bugs in fact that no one can level. Hang on that's not actually happening is it? Can you tell me the name of one game breaking bug that is stopping anyone from playing or progressing? As for the rest of what you said, I have not commented, others have done so. We tend to zero in on what we think is important in a reply, presenting TESO as a MMO with game breaking bugs is rubbish so I have zeroed in on it.

    "I don't know if anyone else is having this, but on the part of the quest where you go into the portal and you meet the Silvenar and the Green Lady, the Silvenar does not spawn and bugs the instance. It stops everyone from moving on." - April 23rd.

    Still ongoing, ive been stuck here for about 4 days now. Logging in at different times, have reset the quest and tried various things, hasn't fixed it. - June 7th.

    To say there are no major problems isn't helping your case when anyone with reading comprehension can quickly look at the support forums.  Whilst they have made strides in fixing many of the issues, many still remain (I also have to wonder how many such problems could be due to the loss of player base and resulting lower stress on server hardware).  Also why were there so many in need of fixing in the first place, many which DID halt progress.  Even now the billing is problematic for some.

    They still haven't moved the EU servers to an EU location 2 months post launch, nor even announced a date for when it will happen (end of summer?!?!). something that laughably I have yet to see any other major title fail to manage for release let alone months after.

    For those who have found enjoyment in the game, good for you!  I too hope they can iron out the problems and salvage something from this game though so far it's looking shakey for it's future to anyone who is at least somewhat honest with themselves.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747
    Originally posted by Miblet
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

    So many game breaking bugs in fact that no one can level. Hang on that's not actually happening is it? Can you tell me the name of one game breaking bug that is stopping anyone from playing or progressing? As for the rest of what you said, I have not commented, others have done so. We tend to zero in on what we think is important in a reply, presenting TESO as a MMO with game breaking bugs is rubbish so I have zeroed in on it.

    "I don't know if anyone else is having this, but on the part of the quest where you go into the portal and you meet the Silvenar and the Green Lady, the Silvenar does not spawn and bugs the instance. It stops everyone from moving on." - April 23rd.

    Still ongoing, ive been stuck here for about 4 days now. Logging in at different times, have reset the quest and tried various things, hasn't fixed it. - June 7th.

    To say there are no major problems isn't helping your case when anyone with reading comprehension can quickly look at the support forums.  Whilst they have made strides in fixing many of the issues, many still remain (I also have to wonder how many such problems could be due to the loss of player base and resulting lower stress on server hardware).  Also why were there so many in need of fixing in the first place, many which DID halt progress.  Even now the billing is problematic for some.

    They still haven't moved the EU servers to an EU location 2 months post launch, nor even announced a date for when it will happen (end of summer?!?!). something that laughably I have yet to see any other major title fail to manage for release let alone months after.

    For those who have found enjoyment in the game, good for you!  I too hope they can iron out the problems and salvage something from this game though so far it's looking shakey for it's future to anyone who is at least somewhat honest with themselves.

    Well it depends on your definition of 'game breaking'. I started in MMO's in AC, in those days the term was only applied to something that made it impossible for you to play. A bug that stopped you accepting quests would have qualified. Today a bug that effects one quest is called 'game breaking'. In those days you put in a bug report and just found another quest and got on with the game. Today you have don't bother with a bug report and just post on forums and social media. Today's players expect MMOs to launch with the polish of a solo game. So much time is spent on that it becomes detrimental to designing a solid, fully fleshed MMO. The obsession with getting a good review means that design of end game has suffered terribly.

    Ironically over the years solo games have increasingly become less polished at launch, I am not making a case for buggy games here, just pointing out its a gaming wide issue.

    Yes they do need to fix stuff and they have been slow, but they have now knocked most of the issues on the head. Meanwhile, with all these 'game breaking' issues, countless players have hit V10+, hopefully you can see the irony there too.

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • MibletMiblet Member Posts: 333
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Miblet
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

    So many game breaking bugs in fact that no one can level. Hang on that's not actually happening is it? Can you tell me the name of one game breaking bug that is stopping anyone from playing or progressing? As for the rest of what you said, I have not commented, others have done so. We tend to zero in on what we think is important in a reply, presenting TESO as a MMO with game breaking bugs is rubbish so I have zeroed in on it.

    "I don't know if anyone else is having this, but on the part of the quest where you go into the portal and you meet the Silvenar and the Green Lady, the Silvenar does not spawn and bugs the instance. It stops everyone from moving on." - April 23rd.

    Still ongoing, ive been stuck here for about 4 days now. Logging in at different times, have reset the quest and tried various things, hasn't fixed it. - June 7th.

    To say there are no major problems isn't helping your case when anyone with reading comprehension can quickly look at the support forums.  Whilst they have made strides in fixing many of the issues, many still remain (I also have to wonder how many such problems could be due to the loss of player base and resulting lower stress on server hardware).  Also why were there so many in need of fixing in the first place, many which DID halt progress.  Even now the billing is problematic for some.

    They still haven't moved the EU servers to an EU location 2 months post launch, nor even announced a date for when it will happen (end of summer?!?!). something that laughably I have yet to see any other major title fail to manage for release let alone months after.

    For those who have found enjoyment in the game, good for you!  I too hope they can iron out the problems and salvage something from this game though so far it's looking shakey for it's future to anyone who is at least somewhat honest with themselves.

    Well it depends on your definition of 'game breaking'. I started in MMO's in AC, in those days the term was only applied to something that made it impossible for you to play. A bug that stopped you accepting quests would have qualified. Today a bug that effects one quest is called 'game breaking'. In those days you put in a bug report and just found another quest and got on with the game. Today you have don't bother with a bug report and just post on forums and social media. Today's players expect MMOs to launch with the polish of a solo game. So much time is spent on that it becomes detrimental to designing a solid, fully fleshed MMO. The obsession with getting a good review means that design of end game has suffered terribly.

    Ironically over the years solo games have increasingly become less polished at launch, I am not making a case for buggy games here, just pointing out its a gaming wide issue.

    Yes they do need to fix stuff and they have been slow, but they have now knocked most of the issues on the head. Meanwhile, with all these 'game breaking' issues, countless players have hit V10+, hopefully you can see the irony there too.

    A quest that halts progression until completed, that cannot be completed wouldn't be classed as game breaking for you?

    That's the problem there are quests tied into the progression system that simply do not always work, and for some do not work period.  That has always been classed as game breaking.  These are not side quests that can be ignored as you move along and find other things to do, some of the quests in question are REQUIRED to continue the VR progress.  That it doesn't happen to everyone should never mean it is less troubling, that alone will possibly make tracking the issues harder (more so when people are happy to chain relog to 'fix' the issue' - something that in itself is awful, even back in the day that would have scared people off).  If the issues had only applied to - as you alluded - the side quests I would dare say there would be a lot less complaining but these happen on mandatory quest lines.

    Players expect bugs.  To not expect bugs nowadays is naive, people have shown it's accepted and as such it's been getting worse as time goes on.  However people also expect to not have their progress halted indefinitely by such bugs, especially whilst being asked to pay while waiting for said fixes.  People paid a premium for this game (the most expensive pay to play subscription title thus far at launch), to say it's getting better is little comfort for those who have lost days or weeks at the mercy of one of the bugs that some casually discount due to not having been affected by them.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Miblet
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Miblet
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by Scot
    "In the OP I even said that bugs, lag, etc will be forgiven (within limits) in a suitably engaging game" - which we have pointed out are fixed or minimal, but lets just forget that shall we?

    There are still plenty of bugs around, including several game breaking ones. But let's just forget those, shall we?

     

    And I note that you missed the entire point I was making (which has become unsurprising by now). Try again.

    So many game breaking bugs in fact that no one can level. Hang on that's not actually happening is it? Can you tell me the name of one game breaking bug that is stopping anyone from playing or progressing? As for the rest of what you said, I have not commented, others have done so. We tend to zero in on what we think is important in a reply, presenting TESO as a MMO with game breaking bugs is rubbish so I have zeroed in on it.

    "I don't know if anyone else is having this, but on the part of the quest where you go into the portal and you meet the Silvenar and the Green Lady, the Silvenar does not spawn and bugs the instance. It stops everyone from moving on." - April 23rd.

    Still ongoing, ive been stuck here for about 4 days now. Logging in at different times, have reset the quest and tried various things, hasn't fixed it. - June 7th.

    To say there are no major problems isn't helping your case when anyone with reading comprehension can quickly look at the support forums.  Whilst they have made strides in fixing many of the issues, many still remain (I also have to wonder how many such problems could be due to the loss of player base and resulting lower stress on server hardware).  Also why were there so many in need of fixing in the first place, many which DID halt progress.  Even now the billing is problematic for some.

    They still haven't moved the EU servers to an EU location 2 months post launch, nor even announced a date for when it will happen (end of summer?!?!). something that laughably I have yet to see any other major title fail to manage for release let alone months after.

    For those who have found enjoyment in the game, good for you!  I too hope they can iron out the problems and salvage something from this game though so far it's looking shakey for it's future to anyone who is at least somewhat honest with themselves.

    Well it depends on your definition of 'game breaking'. I started in MMO's in AC, in those days the term was only applied to something that made it impossible for you to play. A bug that stopped you accepting quests would have qualified. Today a bug that effects one quest is called 'game breaking'. In those days you put in a bug report and just found another quest and got on with the game. Today you have don't bother with a bug report and just post on forums and social media. Today's players expect MMOs to launch with the polish of a solo game. So much time is spent on that it becomes detrimental to designing a solid, fully fleshed MMO. The obsession with getting a good review means that design of end game has suffered terribly.

    Ironically over the years solo games have increasingly become less polished at launch, I am not making a case for buggy games here, just pointing out its a gaming wide issue.

    Yes they do need to fix stuff and they have been slow, but they have now knocked most of the issues on the head. Meanwhile, with all these 'game breaking' issues, countless players have hit V10+, hopefully you can see the irony there too.

    A quest that halts progression until completed, that cannot be completed wouldn't be classed as game breaking for you?

    That's the problem there are quests tied into the progression system that simply do not always work, and for some do not work period.  That has always been classed as game breaking.  These are not side quests that can be ignored as you move along and find other things to do, some of the quests in question are REQUIRED to continue the VR progress.  That it doesn't happen to everyone should never mean it is less troubling, that alone will possibly make tracking the issues harder (more so when people are happy to chain relog to 'fix' the issue' - something that in itself is awful, even back in the day that would have scared people off).  If the issues had only applied to - as you alluded - the side quests I would dare say there would be a lot less complaining but these happen on mandatory quest lines.

    Players expect bugs.  To not expect bugs nowadays is naive, people have shown it's accepted and as such it's been getting worse as time goes on.  However people also expect to not have their progress halted indefinitely by such bugs, especially whilst being asked to pay while waiting for said fixes.  People paid a premium for this game (the most expensive pay to play subscription title thus far at launch), to say it's getting better is little comfort for those who have lost days or weeks at the mercy of one of the bugs that some casually discount due to not having been affected by them.

    Progression doesn't stop unless you stop playing, what it does is it might slow you down abit.

    Don't worry it's a MMORPG you don't have to "beat" the game in X amount of time........

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,747

    Rather than copy and paste the entire argument:

    I do accept issues with the Cadwell quests could be game breaking, as they do stop progression. But only if you have reached level V5 and they are still causing you a problem. Up to that point they have no effect on progression to my knowledge, please correct me if I am mistaken.

    Also although we had too many players with these problems in the early days, there are very few now. And as the last guy said you can do something else while it gets fixed. I only really started PVP at V1, if I had that issue, I would be on a campaign, not endlessly posting on the forums.

    Those of us who did not level so fast are just not seeing these issues, they are fixed by the time we get there. Maybe there is a moral here? :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

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