And I'm pretty happy with that. They understand what made WoW attractive, the things aesperus listed, and made their own game off that without trying to revolutionize the genre.
On top of that they realized that not only polish but being feature complete clicks with gamers. The game feels like it's already a year or two old mature and fully functional. Many games feel green and half-baked, not bad mind you, but just not quite ready. I generally don't mind that because I'm used to testing, but this reminded me how nice it is to have a bunch of stuff that works.
I'm not sure how they intended to develop, but the game has a classic feel without being dated and the systems fresh without feeling bleeding edge unfamiliar. That's fun. I'll play it until that stops being fun.
Well.. I can only say you're doing it right:). I'm not trying to bash WS just to be clear, a game not being for me has nothing to do with it's qualities or lack there of. Trends simply intrigue me, there are some interesting trends in the MMO space.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You've never struck me as a game basher. Critique is good for us all.
I could be projecting here, but Wildstar feels like a game the developers had a vision for and wanted to make. I love Rift, but if I had a single core criticism it would be that it feels like they tried to make someone elses game (forgive the grammar). Rift isn't soulless like many claim, it's just not deep, interconnected, and well thought out.
Look at a couple Rift systems - crafting and housing. Neither one is connected in any meaningful way to the game. They're neat and Dimensions are good, but... Crafting is 95% irrelevant. It's not that raid and dungeon gear is always better, but outside of a few trinkets it's just generally useless and very crude. It had a lot of potential, but it's not realized. Diimensions are a high quality system that are otherwise meaningless to the rest of the game outside of some crafting recipes. Compare those two systems to their implementation in EQ2 and it is like night to day. EQ2 housing is integrated deeply into crafting and questing. The crafting, while simple, is deeply integrated with questing and housing.
It remains to be seen whether Wildstar will still deliver on the same level, but first impressions seem to indicate that to be true.
Very good points, I am very familiar with EQ2 not so much Rift, but your explanation was very understandable having knowledge of EQ2's systems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That was literally the first MMO where the ENTIRE game world phased around what you were doing. Think about that for a secondThere was no prescedence for mega server tech or a 100% phase-based, story-driven questing system.
Champions Online had 1 server and what you mention. So there is a precedence.
Something that both wildstar and ffxiv seem to have in common is that when you play the game and read the dev blogs, you get a sense of deliberate intent. You can see where they are taking their games and it is well thought out and organized. I feel confident investing my time in both games because of this. I've played mmos where I feel like the developers are sort of playing it by ear. Reactionary game development. I think that fits rift and I agree with what Torvaldr was saying earlier. Its why that game has so many interesting but disjointed systems. Swtor felt the same way.
Its nice to play mmos that have a clear vision and are driven by predetermined goals.
Something that both wildstar and ffxiv seem to have in common is that when you play the game and read the dev blogs, you get a sense of deliberate intent. You can see where they are taking their games and it is well thought out and organized. I feel confident investing my time in both games because of this. I've played mmos where I feel like the developers are sort of playing it by ear. Reactionary game development. I think that fits rift and I agree with what Torvaldr was saying earlier. Its why that game has so many interesting but disjointed systems. Swtor felt the same way.
Its nice to play mmos that have a clear vision and are driven by predetermined goals.
I agree 100%. Both excellent games with a well thought out plan and vision. They are the only 2 MMO's I like at the moment. But only have time to play one.
Something that both wildstar and ffxiv seem to have in common is that when you play the game and read the dev blogs, you get a sense of deliberate intent. You can see where they are taking their games and it is well thought out and organized. I feel confident investing my time in both games because of this. I've played mmos where I feel like the developers are sort of playing it by ear. Reactionary game development. I think that fits rift and I agree with what Torvaldr was saying earlier. Its why that game has so many interesting but disjointed systems. Swtor felt the same way.
Its nice to play mmos that have a clear vision and are driven by predetermined goals.
I can't say I didn't find clear intent by what I experienced in TOR or to a lesser extent ESO betas. It seemed perfectly obvious to me exactly what they were going for. The only cause I could see behind what you're saying here in reference to certain games is that somewhere along the line the game-plan shifted. In TOR's case that would be first with the realization that Illium was borked beyond repair, as well as their business model was not going to work.. is it not obvious the intent with TOR was story? Everything revolved around it. Even end game activities. ESO the intent seems to be story and choice reflected in the world around you. As well as DAOC style PVP. What's not clear and predetermined there?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones Aaaaand the WoW clone bitch post drags on in yet another useless thread. Seriously, WoW isn't even a WoW clone anymore ... Wrap your head around that.
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered . Fail game is fail :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones Aaaaand the WoW clone bitch post drags on in yet another useless thread. Seriously, WoW isn't even a WoW clone anymore ... Wrap your head around that.
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered . Fail game is fail :P
Oh, I don't know... let's discuss the finer points of each game instead of the continual bitch sessions that inevitably crop up.
I cringe every time I read these threads in hopes of getting a little kernel of info that may be useful. Oddly enough, there usually IS something of value, but for the most part these forums leave me lacking.
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered . Fail game is fail :P
Oh, I don't know... let's discuss the finer points of each game instead of the continual bitch sessions that inevitably crop up.
I cringe every time I read these threads in hopes of getting a little kernel of info that may be useful. Oddly enough, there usually IS something of value, but for the most part these forums leave me lacking.
Heh, As you can see if there's nothing to "bitch" about there's really not a whole lot going on on this site . I gave up seeking discernible information here long ago. While you might find snippets of value here and there or the random hint of wisdom, most of it is forum PVP. It's best not to be so serious around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered . Fail game is fail :P
Oh, I don't know... let's discuss the finer points of each game instead of the continual bitch sessions that inevitably crop up.
I cringe every time I read these threads in hopes of getting a little kernel of info that may be useful. Oddly enough, there usually IS something of value, but for the most part these forums leave me lacking.
Heh, As you can see if there's nothing to "bitch" about there's really not a whole lot going on on this site . I gave up seeking discernible information here long ago. While you might find snippets of value here and there or the random hint of wisdom, most of it is forum PVP. It's best not to be so serious around here.
No, if there is nothing to bitch about this site reverts to talking about how wonderful it would if a new mmo came out that was just like EQ1... which is a nice conversation to have, but only worth having about once every 10 years.
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered . Fail game is fail :P
Oh, I don't know... let's discuss the finer points of each game instead of the continual bitch sessions that inevitably crop up.
I cringe every time I read these threads in hopes of getting a little kernel of info that may be useful. Oddly enough, there usually IS something of value, but for the most part these forums leave me lacking.
Heh, As you can see if there's nothing to "bitch" about there's really not a whole lot going on on this site . I gave up seeking discernible information here long ago. While you might find snippets of value here and there or the random hint of wisdom, most of it is forum PVP. It's best not to be so serious around here.
No, if there is nothing to bitch about this site reverts to talking about how wonderful it would if a new mmo came out that was just like EQ1... which is a nice conversation to have, but only worth having about once every 10 years.
Heh as I said there's not a whole lot going on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
after seeing two player reactions I will say this; We think we don't want another traditional MMO like World of Warcraft. However that is exactly what we want. We want a game with all of the features of WoW, just... not WoW.
If this statement is true, then why is Rift not the most successful game of all time? Or for that matter Runes of Magic... or SWTOR... or FFXIV....
Would you agree Rift was one of the closer attempts at a successful formula, that not too many were up in arms about compared to say ESO and SWTOR?
Sure Rift didn't launch to the same amount of bad press that ESO/SWTOR did, though perhaps that's because no one cared as so few people were playing it and it wasn't tarnishing a beloved IP.
How does any MMO "tarnish" an IP especially an IP that is not focused on MMORPG gaming? Anyway You might be right about a lack of interest, I mean look at the wildstar forum and it's activity compared to say ESO a couple months back, it's night and day in terms of traffic/new posts.
Which means that people are happily playing the game in-game and don't bother to complain at the forum. It can also means that the game didn't sell that much. However, the interesting thing is that there is minimum complaints on the forum, compared to the you know what mmo.
Which means that people are happily playing the game in-game and don't bother to complain at the forum. It can also means that the game didn't sell that much. However, the interesting thing is that there is minimum complaints on the forum, compared to the you know what mmo.
This is what I have noticed too. I expect some negative threads to crop up here and there, but so far people are quiet probably because they are enjoying the game and not finding that much fault.
I take this to be a good sign, except for one little thing, namely that the game does not seem to be as populated as I expected at least on the EU servers. Perhaps this is a slow burner, which is how WoW started out?
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by FoomerangSomething that both wildstar and ffxiv seem to have in common is that when you play the game and read the dev blogs, you get a sense of deliberate intent. You can see where they are taking their games and it is well thought out and organized. I feel confident investing my time in both games because of this. I've played mmos where I feel like the developers are sort of playing it by ear. Reactionary game development. I think that fits rift and I agree with what Torvaldr was saying earlier. Its why that game has so many interesting but disjointed systems. Swtor felt the same way. Its nice to play mmos that have a clear vision and are driven by predetermined goals.
I can't say I didn't find clear intent by what I experienced in TOR or to a lesser extent ESO betas. It seemed perfectly obvious to me exactly what they were going for. The only cause I could see behind what you're saying here in reference to certain games is that somewhere along the line the game-plan shifted. In TOR's case that would be first with the realization that Illium was borked beyond repair, as well as their business model was not going to work.. is it not obvious the intent with TOR was story? Everything revolved around it. Even end game activities. ESO the intent seems to be story and choice reflected in the world around you. As well as DAOC style PVP. What's not clear and predetermined there? I'm talking about content post launch. Tor has pretty much done the opposite of what they said they would do on almost every front. They said they would further develop the single player storyline and that PvP planet was going to blow us away: neither have had anything added since launch. They also said no housing and now: "welcome home". Of course a cartel market was never revealed to us in the initial grand design.
**snip for length** So I think we can see that the majority of the MMO players want an MMO that is 80% WoW and 20% new features. And that is about the extent of the differences, we finally have our alternative cartoon land to explore.
The ironic thing, is that devs have known this for years now. And yet we still continue to criticize them for 'not listening to the players' and for 'creating another WoW clone'.
And it really comes down to a few irritating truths.
1) Accessibility sells. WoW was so successful because it was accessible to everybody. Literally anyone could get into it. Even a small child could get into that game.
2) Polish. It's no secret that everyone wants a polished game. We are increasingly less tolerant about unpolished games. But what does this mean? This reinforces #1. By tailoring your game to a pre-established design model (WoW's), you free up significantly more time to tweak and tweak and tweak some more. This is why a game like WildStar can release so polished. Because the game has very little depth in its mechanics, so the developers have way more time to focus on making the experience feel more refined (which is what most gamers pay attention to).
By comparison you can look at ESO. A lot of people hated that game, and it had a lot of problems, but look at what they actually did with that game. That was literally the first MMO where the ENTIRE game world phased around what you were doing. Think about that for a second. Does wildstar have entire zones that will drastically change based on how you performed a quest? Nope. But no one cares, because it feels familiar and is significantly less buggy. ESO didn't have anywhere near as much time to refine it's game, because what they were implementing was new. There was no prescedence for mega server tech or a 100% phase-based, story-driven questing system.
3) Most of the games that have failed, were actually a result of devs listening to their players. Very few games have failed because of devs ignoring their playbase. SWG NGE is often brought up as an example of devs ruining a great game by ignoring their fans. However, the changes were made specifically to deal w/ data they got from their fanbase, that showed players wanting something different.
And that's the problem w/ MMOs. There's now millions of people w/ their own opinions. And it's always the games that cater to the lowest common denominator that seem to succeed.
Don't get me wrong, WildStar is a really well made game. However, it also paints what (one would hope) is a glaringly obvious example of what myself (and the OP) have described above.
This man speaks the truth...
On a side note, am having a total blast in WS First mmorpg I've played in a long time that feels polished and launch ready with a wealth of early and end game content right out of the box...kudos to Carbine.
I'm still learning to love the art style but like all games, once you have been playing for a few hours they just become "the graphics" so its not something that will make or break the game for me.
In fact, the only thing I find annoying is no FoV slider in the optons ha ha...the default FoV setting in the game does funny things to my brain lol
I dont agree that ESO is a good game, it was a game with good ideas that came out and was a bad game. It forgot one thing, its a MMO and people play MMOs mostly to team with friends. As for WS being another WoW, on some levels I get it. Tier loot system, art is in the same box and it has features like Arena PvP, Battle Ground PvP and the likes. But by your OP you almost seem to be leaning towards WS being a WoW clone. The comparison just does not fit. WS has these things but does them different. Enough so they are standing on their own feet not the shoulders of Blizzard.
What Carbine did right that so many MMOs have done wrong is, gamers like fluff but we want substance. Fluff like voice over quests cost a ton and take away from features that can be added. Carbine was smart and knew gamers would see the fully working features and eat it up. Also expansions in a game like SWToR is gona cost an arms and a leg to keep the same standards and the time to make it is way longer. Carbine will be able to push out way more content much like WoW. But thats where its like WoW ends. The companies focus, content and lots of it. Keep people doing what they really like, playing a game not listening to it.
Dont get me wrong, fluff like VO acting is ok to a point, but everyone knows when you walk into your 15th town and you see 8 new quest to pick up all with VO story, you go, its gona take me 30 min before I am killing stuff again (((sigh)))
Which means that people are happily playing the game in-game and don't bother to complain at the forum. It can also means that the game didn't sell that much. However, the interesting thing is that there is minimum complaints on the forum, compared to the you know what mmo.
A valid point, it's just rare to not even have what one would consider trolls, jumping in to turn up the volume on all the negatives. I've personally never seen a release that didn't here. This is really a first. I don't know if it's that they're busy with that other game, or just don't care at all about this one. Even the it's not a sandbox, it's a WOW clone themepark peeps have been quiet, for the most part anyway, that's highly unusual.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Well.. I can only say you're doing it right:). I'm not trying to bash WS just to be clear, a game not being for me has nothing to do with it's qualities or lack there of. Trends simply intrigue me, there are some interesting trends in the MMO space.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Very good points, I am very familiar with EQ2 not so much Rift, but your explanation was very understandable having knowledge of EQ2's systems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Champions Online had 1 server and what you mention. So there is a precedence.
Most videogame RPG's do use some form of D&D's rulesets, or are at the very least inspired by them.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Something that both wildstar and ffxiv seem to have in common is that when you play the game and read the dev blogs, you get a sense of deliberate intent. You can see where they are taking their games and it is well thought out and organized. I feel confident investing my time in both games because of this. I've played mmos where I feel like the developers are sort of playing it by ear. Reactionary game development. I think that fits rift and I agree with what Torvaldr was saying earlier. Its why that game has so many interesting but disjointed systems. Swtor felt the same way.
Its nice to play mmos that have a clear vision and are driven by predetermined goals.
I agree 100%. Both excellent games with a well thought out plan and vision. They are the only 2 MMO's I like at the moment. But only have time to play one.
I can't say I didn't find clear intent by what I experienced in TOR or to a lesser extent ESO betas. It seemed perfectly obvious to me exactly what they were going for. The only cause I could see behind what you're saying here in reference to certain games is that somewhere along the line the game-plan shifted. In TOR's case that would be first with the realization that Illium was borked beyond repair, as well as their business model was not going to work.. is it not obvious the intent with TOR was story? Everything revolved around it. Even end game activities. ESO the intent seems to be story and choice reflected in the world around you. As well as DAOC style PVP. What's not clear and predetermined there?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Meh..What else are we to talk about? this has been the closest thing to a lively thread around here in days :P. I had my popcorn ready, now it's all stale and smells funny.
IN seriousness, to translate, I feel jipped, if there is one thing you can usually count on it's funny rants and arguments over them, thus far wildstar hasn't delivered
. Fail game is fail :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh, I don't know... let's discuss the finer points of each game instead of the continual bitch sessions that inevitably crop up.
I cringe every time I read these threads in hopes of getting a little kernel of info that may be useful. Oddly enough, there usually IS something of value, but for the most part these forums leave me lacking.
Heh, As you can see if there's nothing to "bitch" about there's really not a whole lot going on on this site
. I gave up seeking discernible information here long ago. While you might find snippets of value here and there or the random hint of wisdom, most of it is forum PVP. It's best not to be so serious around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No, if there is nothing to bitch about this site reverts to talking about how wonderful it would if a new mmo came out that was just like EQ1... which is a nice conversation to have, but only worth having about once every 10 years.
Heh as I said there's not a whole lot going on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Which means that people are happily playing the game in-game and don't bother to complain at the forum. It can also means that the game didn't sell that much. However, the interesting thing is that there is minimum complaints on the forum, compared to the you know what mmo.
This is what I have noticed too. I expect some negative threads to crop up here and there, but so far people are quiet probably because they are enjoying the game and not finding that much fault.
I take this to be a good sign, except for one little thing, namely that the game does not seem to be as populated as I expected at least on the EU servers. Perhaps this is a slow burner, which is how WoW started out?
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I'm talking about content post launch. Tor has pretty much done the opposite of what they said they would do on almost every front. They said they would further develop the single player storyline and that PvP planet was going to blow us away: neither have had anything added since launch. They also said no housing and now: "welcome home". Of course a cartel market was never revealed to us in the initial grand design.
This man speaks the truth...
On a side note, am having a total blast in WS
First mmorpg I've played in a long time that feels polished and launch ready with a wealth of early and end game content right out of the box...kudos to Carbine.
I'm still learning to love the art style but like all games, once you have been playing for a few hours they just become "the graphics" so its not something that will make or break the game for me.
In fact, the only thing I find annoying is no FoV slider in the optons ha ha...the default FoV setting in the game does funny things to my brain lol
I dont agree that ESO is a good game, it was a game with good ideas that came out and was a bad game. It forgot one thing, its a MMO and people play MMOs mostly to team with friends. As for WS being another WoW, on some levels I get it. Tier loot system, art is in the same box and it has features like Arena PvP, Battle Ground PvP and the likes. But by your OP you almost seem to be leaning towards WS being a WoW clone. The comparison just does not fit. WS has these things but does them different. Enough so they are standing on their own feet not the shoulders of Blizzard.
What Carbine did right that so many MMOs have done wrong is, gamers like fluff but we want substance. Fluff like voice over quests cost a ton and take away from features that can be added. Carbine was smart and knew gamers would see the fully working features and eat it up. Also expansions in a game like SWToR is gona cost an arms and a leg to keep the same standards and the time to make it is way longer. Carbine will be able to push out way more content much like WoW. But thats where its like WoW ends. The companies focus, content and lots of it. Keep people doing what they really like, playing a game not listening to it.
Dont get me wrong, fluff like VO acting is ok to a point, but everyone knows when you walk into your 15th town and you see 8 new quest to pick up all with VO story, you go, its gona take me 30 min before I am killing stuff again (((sigh)))
A valid point, it's just rare to not even have what one would consider trolls, jumping in to turn up the volume on all the negatives. I've personally never seen a release that didn't here. This is really a first. I don't know if it's that they're busy with that other game, or just don't care at all about this one. Even the it's not a sandbox, it's a WOW clone themepark peeps have been quiet, for the most part anyway, that's highly unusual.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson