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Lets design: A new Star Wars MMO?

sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788

Inevitably we will see a new big money Star Wars MMO, the franchise still has a very long term staying power and will surely gross more video game spin-offs in MMO form. 

 

So the question is, if you were in the developers seat, designing the newest Star Was MMO, how would you do it?

Now this doesnt have to be limited to simply whether you would do sandbox or themepark or some mix, but rather, what systems would you design? What class's would you implement? How would you do character progression?

How would you address the issues that hindered past Star Wars MMO's?

 

Lets design a new Star Wars MMO,

Heres one of my design choices if I was in the developers chair on a new Star Wars MMO:

 

Jedi Progression

I feel as if both SWG and TOR got Jedi Progression wrong in their respective games. In SWG by making Jedi an overly strenuous task to achieve and in TOR by making Jedi overly powerful from level one. So here my solution:

  • You can chose the Jedi class from the beginning of the game.
    • Start off with no Lightsaber.
    • Given only basic force powers as abilities.
      • Starter Force Push - stuns for a couples seconds
      • Force Heal (In combat)
      • Meditate (Out of combat healing)
    • Must find weapons such as vibro-blades and blasters from mobs, if not use your fists.
 
  • Progression should be slow and based heavily on skill advancement.
    • A Jedi should not be gaining power in both Force and Jedi Combat skills at the same time.
      • Split Progression between Force Skill Line and Jedi Combat Skill line
    • While other class's are getting very proficient in their combat roles, Jedi's split progression will differentiate them, hinder them from becoming OP at early game, and level the playing field in terms of power with other class's. 
 
  • Lightsabers can be attained in a multitude of ways.
    • Crafted, with higher level materials that start to appear at a low drop-rate - Level(10+) and onward.
      • Crafted Lightsabers given slightly better stats than Quest Rewarded.
    • Lightsabers that are crafted can be given to other Jedi through a Mentor System.
      • Only allowed one Mentor at a time, limiting the amount of Tradeable Lightsabers.
    • Quest Rewarded at L(10+)
      • Quest Rewarded Lightsabers are Always Soulbound!
  • Lightsaber is level locked at L(10)
 
So in my design choice, I chose to focus on making Jedi Progression more of a community based and differentiated profession than others in the galaxy would be.
 
Making Lightsabers a more profound status symbol and not allowing the player to enter into combat with one until mentored, crafted, or rewarded, gives the player a more symbolic relationship with the weapon as a status symbol. 
 
The split Progression also differentiates them from other class's, by giving them multiple advantages/disadvantages through their progression. Obviously a Smuggler whose trained in pistols till level 10 is going to have a fair advantage over a Jedi who has focused skills in force stuns and healing, but limited the amount of combat training they have. And even then the advantage of a lightsaber would be there only if the Jedi has been mentored and given a lightsaber to use, making community interaction a huge plus. 
 
Feel free to post your own ideas by using my above model or even by creating one of your own, this is meant to be a free-form thread  - so bounce some ideas around or share some own.
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Comments

  • coorsguyscoorsguys Member Posts: 272
    FYI in Swtor you did not start with a lightsaber.  You got it around level 11-13.  
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    If I were in the developers seat? Can it and come up with a new and more exciting IP. That is my honest opinion. Star Wars is far too generic and over used at this point in history, we need new Sci-Fi, not more of the same.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    If I were in the developers seat? Can it and come up with a new and more exciting IP. That is my honest opinion. Star Wars is far too generic and over used at this point in history, we need new Sci-Fi, not more of the same.

    Says the guy with a Star-Trek Avatar :P

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    well you've got at least 10 years to work on it.
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    If I were in the developers seat? Can it and come up with a new and more exciting IP. That is my honest opinion. Star Wars is far too generic and over used at this point in history, we need new Sci-Fi, not more of the same.

    Says the guy with a Star-Trek Avatar :P

    Touche salesman, I too have an uncle. In my defense, I have never played STO, I just enjoyed the TV shows :p

     

    I wouldn't want them to make any more Star Trek games either if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy or whatever.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by coorsguys
    FYI in Swtor you did not start with a lightsaber.  You got it around level 11-13.  

    Yeah your right, i forgot since the vibro-blade was so damn similar to a lightsaber. I think you could get one by the level 9 qest reward though. 

     

    My point still is that as a Jedi even without the Lightsaber you just ripped through enemies like it was nothing and progression was far too fast.

  • andre369andre369 Member UncommonPosts: 970
    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    Originally posted by coorsguys
    FYI in Swtor you did not start with a lightsaber.  You got it around level 11-13.  

    Yeah your right, i forgot since the vibro-blade was so damn similar to a lightsaber. I think you could get one by the level 9 qest reward though. 

     

    My point still is that as a Jedi even without the Lightsaber you just ripped through enemies like it was nothing and progression was far too fast.

    What about the 5 year old Padwans(correct typo if wrong) in the movies? I would love a great Star Wars game but, to me it would need to be like Chivalry, you dont take a hit from a light saber and not loose a body part. How this would fit in a MMO, it probably would not, unless you introduce arbitrary "anti light saber" armor. 

    Getting a light saber in itself should not be the goal, sure you can have colors to represent higher skill, but receiving one should not be a grind. You are born with the "skill" to be a Jedi, not something you give to a 30 year old master of combat. 

    To me a system of progression of a Jedi is just too complex to be actually doable. Unlocking combos, creating your own and increasing their power should be in such a system.

    And then you have the actual combat, it needs to work right with the counterpart, assuming we want some PvP. How do you design a system for this if you want a true Jedi game, where you die or get severely injured if you take a hit. Again this is my vision of what a Jedi Star Wars game should be, flying body parts and hard punishment when you take hits. 

    A progression system for the force is easier to flesh out and easier to balance properly. 

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    No bs, you could take SWG and keep all the original game mechanics exactly as they were, either pre cu or cu...hell, i'd take nge at this point.  Upgrade the graphics and it'll be the best game out.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • SevalaSevala Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    So the question is, if you were in the developers seat, designing the newest Star Was MMO, how would you do it?

    Get rid of everything StarWars related (aka new IP). That is what ends up ruining every StarWars game in the end.

    Jedi Progression

    I feel as if both SWG and TOR got Jedi Progression wrong in their respective games. In SWG by making Jedi an overly strenuous task to achieve and in TOR by making Jedi overly powerful from level one. So here my solution:

    Ugh...The second worst thing SWG ever did was make Jedi EASIER to get. (The worst being the CU). Another "Waaaaaaaa, i wanna be a jedi people but don't want to have to do any work...". Those people helped ruin (what was the best game) it....or at least speed up the train wreck that it became. I wish they would have made it harder.

     

    Jedi suck.

    ~I am Many~

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,395

    i never thought i would say this but i would rather play a Star Wars moba.

     

    SWTOR is already there, it just needs an engine upgrade (if Age of Conan managed to do it right, SWTOR can do it too) and of course better management.





  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    Hybrid mmo of questing/pve and open world sand box.

    crafting is important. Resources are part of open world Pvp 

    npcs affect the world, and also open world events affect npcs. Dynamic events on a large scale with npc armies.

    gambling

    bounty hunting

    fps/ directional attack/block with saber/sword combat that includes action bar for combat

    duel arenas

    mini games - pazaak/swoop racing

    mounted combat

    aerial combat in certain areas

    day/night cycles with multiple moons/suns

    extreme landscape such as la concept art for coruscant.

    lots of races

    one character and real multi classing

    horizontal progression -little time wasted on repetitive/ easy content that is filler. Or none really 

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • EcocesEcoces Member UncommonPosts: 879

    Take SWG (pre-nge) give it Guild Wars 2 style graphics make the Galactic civil war a focal point ..... keep jedi out and

     

    bam a fantastic game

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    I want it to be JUST LIKE SWG! WAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! image

     

    Did I win?

     

    I would like to have a game that had the space aspects of EvE with the avatar aspects of, probably Ultima Online. Those space aspects though I would like even more if they were very Earth and Beyond'ish.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud Member UncommonPosts: 400

    Sure, I wouldn't mind a new Star Wars MMO since SWtor became boring very quick. This time, make it a sandbox with open world PvP but use the SWG TEF (temporary enemy flag) system. PvP should not be forced but attacking PvE enemies of the other faction is tempting but will give you a flag for a few minutes so players and npcs of that enemy faction can attack you.

    Oh, and about Jedi, it should never be easy to become one. They don't necessarily have to do what SWG did and hide the knowledge to become one. We can know. The only thing is that it will be very very difficult to become one. Maybe even so difficult that should we fail on our character during our quest only once then that character will never become one, ever. (Lets call it "Permadeath quest". Which means what I said. Fail once and the quest is dead for that character. The character never dies though.)

    Realistically thinking though, we'll probably never see a Star Wars mmo for many years still but, I'm all for that dream! :)

     

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    Hybrid mmo of questing/pve and open world sand box.

    crafting is important. Resources are part of open world Pvp 

    npcs affect the world, and also open world events affect npcs. Dynamic events on a large scale with npc armies.

    gambling

    bounty hunting

    fps/ directional attack/block with saber/sword combat that includes action bar for combat

    duel arenas

    mini games - pazaak/swoop racing

    mounted combat

    aerial combat in certain areas

    day/night cycles with multiple moons/suns

    extreme landscape such as la concept art for coruscant.

    lots of races

    one character and real multi classing

    horizontal progression -little time wasted on repetitive/ easy content that is filler. Or none really 

    This is something I feel they really dropped the ball with SWTOR, I mean both were a big part of TOR lore since KOTOR and would have been great additions to the game world. Buying a Pazaak deck and going to the cantina to duel was a huge hope for me, but it just wasnt in the cards I guess...

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,102

    I think SWG did it right with jedi the first time around based on the timeline that the game was in.

     

    I would love a pre CU SWG with updated graphics / interface.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • syltmackasyltmacka Member UncommonPosts: 404

    lots of alien species, playable droids. unusal classes , like trader and dancer.

     

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    • Lightsabers can be attained in a multitude of ways.
      • Crafted, with higher level materials that start to appear at a low drop-rate - Level(10+) and onward.
        • Crafted Lightsabers given slightly better stats than Quest Rewarded.
      • Lightsabers that are crafted can be given to other Jedi through a Mentor System.
        • Only allowed one Mentor at a time, limiting the amount of Tradeable Lightsabers.
      • Quest Rewarded at L(10+)
        • Quest Rewarded Lightsabers are Always Soulbound!
    • Lightsaber is level locked at L(10)
     

    Looks like you haven't played SWTOR at all.  Currently lightsaber is obtainable from lvl 7-11, depending on how fast you do the main quest line and how many shortcuts you take on that road.  On the other hand, crafting gear is lvl 9+, and if my memory is right, there is no crafted light sabers that low lvl, only vibroswords and staffs.

    Your logic has a very big issue... "No combat until you get  your lightsaber at lvl 10.".. are you serious.   What will you do for 9 levels without a weapon?   How will you level your character?

    Also SWTOR start with basic attacks, so IMO it works the same as other mmo's in that regard.  Basic skills that get you going, and while your character progresses, you get the better ones (aoe's, debuffs, cc, etc).

    I have other ideas that would work for a Star Wars mmo.

    1. No subclasses.  Made role dependent on weapon skills or talent skills, but have everything available for the main class.  Example:  Jedi/Sith class, with different weapon choice, and mechanics changing depending on weapon.  You even see that in the SWTOR starting cinematics when both sith and jedi change from one to two weapons during mid fight.  How cool would be able to do that like in GW2/TSW.
    2. Action combat style.  While I still play SWTOR, I personally prefer the more dynamic movement of the new MMO's.
    3. No divided worlds.  If you plan to seriously have world PvP, you can't have worlds with population divided by timelines.   Also that would make raiding capital/starting worlds possible.  How many would like to kill the Emperor, or Satele for an achievement. :-)
    4. Like the old Star Wars games, some skills should be dependent of the affinity (lightning if dark side only).  That will make the affinity matter again.  Make more sense even in personal story that you don't get a seat in the Counsel if you are bad, simply because they said you are, or because you are shocking everyone around.  
    5. They should make world pvp more extensive than just pk players.  Territorial wars, fortress, guild vs guild do good for any mmo. 
    6. A little less cartoony graphics to make it look a little more like the films, and that imo is a plus.
    7. If the goal of the game is to fight a greater evil on every major content patch, then the factions should not be on war, but on competition.  By not being on war  it can bring other mechanics like coop flashpoints/ops by both factions.
    8. Worlds should change depending on faction dominance.  That would even make appealing rerolling on another faction controlled server, just to see how many changes those worlds have gone through (like the different dimensions in comics).
    9. Less skills.  SWTOR has too many skills to fetch on 2 toolbars most of the time.  Having 6-8 skills make the game even more appealing to console porting.  A good start is an easy to click button that will show all mount, jet boot, travel, teleport options, saving a couple of slots from bars.
    10. Mentor system.  While it makes more sense in the Jedi and Sith lore, and to a lesser extent the Agents, it can bring rewards to both the mentor and the beginner.
     
    I have another ideas but while may be good for mmo, do not fit SW lore well.  Some of my ideas can be implemented on SWTOR, while others may require a complete rewrite (new game).
     
  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    Hybrid mmo of questing/pve and open world sand box.

    crafting is important. Resources are part of open world Pvp 

    npcs affect the world, and also open world events affect npcs. Dynamic events on a large scale with npc armies.

    gambling

    bounty hunting

    fps/ directional attack/block with saber/sword combat that includes action bar for combat

    duel arenas

    mini games - pazaak/swoop racing

    mounted combat

    aerial combat in certain areas

    day/night cycles with multiple moons/suns

    extreme landscape such as la concept art for coruscant.

    lots of races

    one character and real multi classing

    horizontal progression -little time wasted on repetitive/ easy content that is filler. Or none really 

    This is something I feel they really dropped the ball with SWTOR, I mean both were a big part of TOR lore since KOTOR and would have been great additions to the game world. Buying a Pazaak deck and going to the cantina to duel was a huge hope for me, but it just wasnt in the cards I guess...

    It's strange. They say they have plans to add it in the future. They had a poll to add a few new things and most people voted 3d space combat. Nearly 2 years later from poll they add their new mechanic and ofc they had to deal with f2p transition so it doesn't mean it took them almost 2 years develop. Point is, on that poll were several other things including swoop racing so, once they have added their new expected content such as swoop racing, they won't have an excuse not to add it. However, it's so easy for them to add. Which is why it's strange. I guess we just have to wait to add whatever they prioritize and then they will have to prioritize pazak at some point.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    Seems that many of you are saying how you'd:

    a. improve swtor

    b. improve on swg

    c. bring back pure swg

    d. create a hybrid of swtor and swg

     

    Am I the only one who would prefer a 'new' star wars game?

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,827

    They supposedly spent 200 million and imo only got about 50-60% the quality the game needed to be an epic Star Wars game.

    IDK perhaps it was a very weak developer "my opinion that they are not well suited to make an epic game".200 million sure seems like more than enough,i believe i could produce such an epic game with that budget.The efforts looked half ass in ALL of it's design,so that tells me there was a lot of wasted cash flow somewhere,idk big shots filling their pockets with high salaries,i really don't know where all that money went.

    They really missed the whole point of a RPG,they simply made a bunch of npc's fit the bill for each quest,then they disappeared.Voice acting does nothing if there is no long lasting LORE with these npc's,they need to be there for the entire game aside from some deaths that would happen along the way.

    Just as sad as STO was  they had several instances that should have been made better with some effort like travelling on ships instead of clicking a door and you warped to some other destination.You don't make the mobs always  in groups of 3"90% of the time and 1 the rest of the time" that looks incredibly FAKE and well looks dumb.

    There  was not one single EPIC moment,like perhaps epic battles where the opposite faction invades a major city and the epic battle begins with players and NPC's defending as the ships role .

    My whole point is to point out that they tried with an enormous budget and failed,so unless you figure Bio is just a really weak developer who is going to make such an EPIC game that would then take upwards of 200+ million ,perhaps 300 million?Judging by current trends on game design...nobody will make such a game instead expect more crowd funding Wing Commander type games with loads of hype and talk but nothing much to deliver.Expect loads of  solo player game play with co op instances on low budgets.

    I too wished for an Epic Star Wars game,i had high hopes that EA would steer Bio in the right direction but truth is there are vry few really good developers with both the talent and the money to pull it off.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    Seems that many of you are saying how you'd:

    a. improve swtor

    b. improve on swg

    c. bring back pure swg

    d. create a hybrid of swtor and swg

     

    Am I the only one who would prefer a 'new' star wars game?

     

    No I'd like a new one too, but it doesn't really matter either way. Nether one is happening any time soon.

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    They supposedly spent 200 million and imo only got about 50-60% the quality the game needed to be an epic Star Wars game. 

    More around $250 million, and they used Hero Engine when it was alpha or beta.  One of the rules in business is that you use proven products.  And Hero Engine was an unproveen, still under heavy development product.  Since that engine handles networking, 3D graphics, maybe audio etc, I'm pretty sure about 50-60% or more  of the issues SWTOR had where from it alone.

    Even when the Hero Engine wikipedia entry has 3 titles as developed using that product, only SWTOR is actually the one using it.  TESO is using an in house engine, and the other game is no longer running.

     

     

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    Seems that many of you are saying how you'd:

    a. improve swtor

    b. improve on swg

    c. bring back pure swg

    d. create a hybrid of swtor and swg

     

    Am I the only one who would prefer a 'new' star wars game?

     

    Some of my suggestions can be incorporated in SWTOR like guild vs guild, and to some extent the elimination of subclasses, incorporation of multi type weapon usage.  But hey, they didn't provide a dual spec 2 years later, which that involves some extra database fields and a little glue to store/switch 2 builds.  Keep dreaming about a complex talent or class change, or planet revamp.

    I never played SWG, so except for the housing that I have read online, not idea about how it was.  So my previous suggestions are more fitting for a new game.

     

  • yaminsuxyaminsux Member UncommonPosts: 973

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1_Nvn7DPM

    This is how new SW MMO should be.

    Pure blasters, no swords/vibroblades (lets keep swords to Warhammer 40K please), and NO LIGHTSABERS.

    Jedis ruined SW IP, period.

    It ruined SW EP 1-3. It ruined SWG (you can say NGE, but it really a way to introduce jedis to the system)..

    Problem here is fans made them godlike, able to do an array of abilities. Can block lasers, wow talk about lightspeed reflexes. They are godlike. It feels like normal people in SW universe are sheeps unable to change anything.

    So yeah, if it ever be SW MMO....FFS LEAVE JEDIS OUT OF IT. It sucked the fun out of it.

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