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will there ever be another MMORPG that is not pay2win?

majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

I'm not that up to date on the upcoming MMORPGs, but I can't remember any MMORPG right now, that has been recently released or will be released soon, that does not give players significant advantages by paying money. Be it the possibility to basically buy ingame gold (Wildstar) or mounts (ESO).

Is the concept of a MMORPG where everybody got the same chances really gone for good?

 

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

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Comments

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,560
    Of course.  There are a lot of mmo's out that are not pay to win right now.  I don't see that changing.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    Mounts are P2W?

     

    That aside people will find way's for P2W

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    If you think paying for anything = pay to win then the answer is no, there will never be a mmo that has nothing at all for anyone to buy.
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,178
    Originally posted by maji

    I'm not that up to date on the upcoming MMORPGs, but I can't remember any MMORPG right now, that has been recently released or will be released soon, that does not give players significant advantages by paying money. Be it the possibility to basically buy ingame gold (Wildstar) or mounts (ESO).

    Is the concept of a MMORPG where everybody got the same chances really gone for good?

     

    Will there ever be someone who screams pay2win that actually understands what pay2win really means?

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,003
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,413

    all games should be free 2 play, have no cash shop or sub and give me everything in game for free

    that way in about a yr we will never have another game to have this discussion over

    if buying a preorder collectors edition mount is your definition of pay2win, then you should just quit gaming right now

    WOW is pay2win, cause if you dont pay for the game and sub, you can never win WOW

  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,405
    Stop caring about how other people play their game. Noone can win in an MMORPG.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Utinni
    Stop caring about how other people play their game. Noone can win in an MMORPG.

     

    I win every time I have fun. :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DeathsmindDeathsmind Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by maji

    I'm not that up to date on the upcoming MMORPGs, but I can't remember any MMORPG right now, that has been recently released or will be released soon, that does not give players significant advantages by paying money. Be it the possibility to basically buy ingame gold (Wildstar) or mounts (ESO).

    Is the concept of a MMORPG where everybody got the same chances really gone for good?

     

    Do you even game bro?

  • OriousOrious Member UncommonPosts: 548

    Only if you make every single thing bind on pick-up (even gold) and prevent all trading and have only cosmetic things in the cash shop if there is one. Kind of like Diablo 3...

     

    As long as there is a real-life out of the game and you can trade in game, there will always be gold selling websites and power leveling services.

     

    But saying ESO mounts are p2w is pretty hilarious...

    image

  • xanthmetisxanthmetis Member UncommonPosts: 139

    Dear OP, 

    I would ask you to define what pay to win means to  you.  It is clearly not same perception that the rest of the people who posted thus far is.  He seem not to have done your research on the meaning of the phrase and I would challenge you to do so before you most something on the internet.  

    The definition on urbandictionary.com reads as follows: Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

     

    Your two examples did not meet the criteria to fall under this definition.  Please provide us better examples of recent mmorpgs that fall under this def/guideline.  

     

     

    image
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

  • DeathsmindDeathsmind Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

  • VicDynamoVicDynamo Member Posts: 234
    WildStar CREDD is not pay to win. The gold is from other players and not "created" at purchase. Gold also not the means to power in WildStar. You can have all the gold in the game and still lose badly. All CREDD does is save time - like rested xp or buffs.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    None of the value comes from what other people do or think. How you derive value from your own accomplishments seems really damaged and shallow to me.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    None of the value comes from what other people do or think. How you derive value from your own accomplishments seems really damaged and shallow to me.

    I don't really understand what you are saying.  I am shallow because I would like my time spent gaining an item to have value in a multiplayer game?  I guess you are saying that getting the item alone should be some kind of great fun for me in these very shallow game experiences that are called MMOs today.

  • DeathsmindDeathsmind Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    None of the value comes from what other people do or think. How you derive value from your own accomplishments seems really damaged and shallow to me.

    I don't really understand what you are saying.  I am shallow because I would like my time spent gaining an item to have value in a multiplayer game?  I guess you are saying that getting the item alone should be some kind of great fun for me in these very shallow game experiences that are called MMOs today.

    Then dont play...Not that hard really...Also if its different items what does it matter? These games for the most part dont let you buy the same items that you farm for. So these people will still have to farm for them if that is the look they want. 

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by maji

    I'm not that up to date on the upcoming MMORPGs, but I can't remember any MMORPG right now, that has been recently released or will be released soon, that does not give players significant advantages by paying money. Be it the possibility to basically buy ingame gold (Wildstar) or mounts (ESO).

    Is the concept of a MMORPG where everybody got the same chances really gone for good?

     

    I think the question you should be asking is if there will ever be an MMO that is pay2win.

    Sure there might have been one or two in the past *coughAllodsOnlinecough*, but even they learned their lessons eventually.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    None of the value comes from what other people do or think. How you derive value from your own accomplishments seems really damaged and shallow to me.

    I don't really understand what you are saying.  I am shallow because I would like my time spent gaining an item to have value in a multiplayer game?  I guess you are saying that getting the item alone should be some kind of great fun for me in these very shallow game experiences that are called MMOs today.

    Then dont play...Not that hard really...Also if its different items what does it matter? These games for the most part dont let you buy the same items that you farm for. So these people will still have to farm for them if that is the look they want. 

    I don't play MMOs anymore.  I've tried a few, but they are not enjoyable to me.  I'm just upset that so many people seem to accept it as ok to pay for items in game and pay to skip content.  I can't see it as anything but bad.  People can defend it all they want, but it's basically making MMOs pointless to play IMO.

  • DemalisDemalis Member Posts: 134

    Well try to wrap your head around this... Is multi boxing( paying for several accounts and linking them through software to work off one keyboard/mouse) P2W? If your answer is yes then a better question would be, has there ever been a mmo game that has not been P2W.

     

  • TsuruTsuru Member UncommonPosts: 296
    Originally posted by maji

    I'm not that up to date on the upcoming MMORPGs, but I can't remember any MMORPG right now, that has been recently released or will be released soon, that does not give players significant advantages by paying money. Be it the possibility to basically buy ingame gold (Wildstar) or mounts (ESO).

    Is the concept of a MMORPG where everybody got the same chances really gone for good?

     

    Wildstar CREDD doesnt conjure up gold out of no where. The money is gained from the players in the end. Oh sure, you can amass gold with CREDD that you sell. But what are you gonna do with it that will give you an advantage to people who dont? Nothing. The best items are not crafted. They are gained through dungeons. By definition "pay2win" needs to give a significate advantage to players who cant buy whatever it is the game sells. Anyone who puts in any effort to stimulate the economy by crafting items or selling items found on mobs would earn money the same way. Thus there is no advantage. If i face him in pvp he wont be any different then me. If my gear and his gear are the same, it all comes down to skills. And if he beat me im not gonna blame him saying omg hes pay2win cause he sells credd. That just makes no sense.

  • DeathsmindDeathsmind Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    None of the value comes from what other people do or think. How you derive value from your own accomplishments seems really damaged and shallow to me.

    I don't really understand what you are saying.  I am shallow because I would like my time spent gaining an item to have value in a multiplayer game?  I guess you are saying that getting the item alone should be some kind of great fun for me in these very shallow game experiences that are called MMOs today.

    Then dont play...Not that hard really...Also if its different items what does it matter? These games for the most part dont let you buy the same items that you farm for. So these people will still have to farm for them if that is the look they want. 

    I don't play MMOs anymore.  I've tried a few, but they are not enjoyable to me.  I'm just upset that so many people seem to accept it as ok to pay for items in game and pay to skip content.  I can't see it as anything but bad.  People can defend it all they want, but it's basically making MMOs pointless to play IMO.

    Then play MMOs that dont do that, the other 99.9999999999% of MMOs on the market.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Deathsmind
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    there's plenty of games that are'nt p2w.. just because you can buy stuff for money does'nt make them p2w. unless you think cosemtics gives player an advantage over others?

    I remember in EQ people would grind for certain armor just for it's appearance.  I don't believe anything sold for real money doesn't have an impact in some way.

    Tons of games still do that. Take WoW. You can buy tons of mounts you can also grind for mounts. People do both. Also since the transmog came out tons of people are grinding out gear for its looks.

    Why would I put in time to get an item if someone can just insert their credit card and buy it?  Part of the value comes from an items difficulty to get.

    What kind of reasoning is that? You want to have to grind for something, grind for it... There's no real "value" to any gear in an MMO it's all about how you want to look/perform and what you're willing to do/pay in order to achieve it. WHo cares how the other guy did it. Supported by the company or not there's always going to be someone who broke out the cc to achieve their place in a game, it's been going on since the dawn of the genre dev supported or not. Ebay, IGE etc, etc, etc....

    IF someone paying their way stops you or strips all tasks of their value, you might as well skip this genre as a whole because no matter the game or no matter the age of the genre, you're sharing it with these people.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    Do you mean a f2p that is not pay to win??  I mean I'm playing Final Fantasy 14 but it's sub/box and not pay to win.


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