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The All Time Ultimate Space Adventure MMO

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  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    Anyone who has ever played MMORPGS know exactly why this game is not considered a MMO.  We could sit here, write paragraph after paragraph detailing every aspect of past MMOs that were actually MMOs instead of these lobby, part time MMOs that you see today.

     

    And in the end, you will respond with the same thing.  Copy and paste the wiki definition of a MMO.....

     

    There is a dividing point over the past 15 years where you get the lobby MMO players who started with WOW when it turned into a part time lobby game, and the people who started with Ultima Online or EQ or original Asherons Call.  Those games were MMOs, the games you see today are not.  Simple as that.

    Times have changed and you haven't. That is nobody's fault but your own.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • KinadoKinado Member Posts: 198
    I freaking hate people that sign their name in posts when the forum already provides them with a name, title, avatar, signature, you name it.
  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by Kinado
    I freaking hate people that sign their name in posts when the forum already provides them with a name, title, avatar, signature, you name it.

    When you can't argue the post attack the poster, eh? Nice way to invalidate anything you try to say from this point on.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • screecwescreecwe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    Anyone who has ever played MMORPGS know exactly why this game is not considered a MMO.  We could sit here, write paragraph after paragraph detailing every aspect of past MMOs that were actually MMOs instead of these lobby, part time MMOs that you see today.

     

    And in the end, you will respond with the same thing.  Copy and paste the wiki definition of a MMO.....

     

    There is a dividing point over the past 15 years where you get the lobby MMO players who started with WOW when it turned into a part time lobby game, and the people who started with Ultima Online or EQ or original Asherons Call.  Those games were MMOs, the games you see today are not.  Simple as that.

     

    Where are you getting lobby from? There is no lobby in SC outside of Arena Commander, and that's only because it's only an alpha module and needs something to facilitate the matches.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,003
    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

     

     

    Take some time to read all of the in-universe fiction that has been put out. Especially check out the 13 writer's guides which reveal an extremely detailed universe including the extensive timeline. There was even a video detailing how the concept art guys had to create architecture for every era. For each era, the writers had to create reasons why the architecture was how was  and they had to do mixes of them on each planet. Because in reality, why would a planet have ALL one era of buildings? 

    Transcript of pages

    Not to mention the script for Squadron 42 was at 1000+ pages whereas a normal script would be 120. They're trying to cut it down to 500, but they're not sure yet. 

     

    No, thanks image

    That's nice and all, but it doesn't matter how many pages they have if they fail to pull it together at the end.  A script without a sound director does not a polished experience make.  I'm not invested enough in this game to pour through all that to try and determine whether or not it will be; I think I'll wait and see what the final product looks like.  Knock yourself out, though.

    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    seems  today  players have no idea what is an MMO game,SC is not MMO it is SP game with MP

    Uhh.. How do you figure?

     

    Massive?        √

    Multiplayer?    √

    Online?           √

     

    The wikipedia entry has "MMO" listed as: A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

    It has a single Persistent Universe with a large number of players where your actions affect the entire PU for other players. Maybe this might not fit YOUR personal definition of an MMO, but the rest of us go by the actual definition.

    The double M in MMORPG, MMOG, or MMO as it's often shortened to these days actually stands for "Massively Multiplayer". It has nothing to do with the size or scope of the game, it has to do with the number of interactions between players playing the game. You can't split those two Ms up without changing the original meaning of the term.[1]

    Saying a game is Massive has nothing to do specifically with the number of interactions between players.  Massively Multiplayer is really an inseparable term.  It's not important to this game in particular, but if you're going to argue semantics at least get the terms right.

    Anyway, the title of this thread is somewhat ludicrous, and I feel like I'm shedding too many neurons here.  That's all from this one for a while.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 Member UncommonPosts: 1,023
    not sure...but the more i hear about sc it sounds less and less like a massively open world mmo and more like kinda a multi player spacde fight game? ed seems to go more into the direction of an mmo?
  • GrathkarGrathkar Member UncommonPosts: 6
    I realy  like  star citizen   but  i dont want to get my hopes up. We will have to wait and see. Most  interesting  things  would  be planet exploration. Think about it  ur  fighting   in space   u  get beatun   up .Run to a planet  get stranded there  lol .Well they probably wont  make it huh ?
  • screecwescreecwe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Originally posted by Phaserlight                                                                                                                                                          No, thanks image

    That's nice and all, but it doesn't matter how many pages they have if they fail to pull it together at the end.  A script without a sound director does not a polished experience make.  I'm not invested enough in this game to pour through all that to try and determine whether or not it will be; I think I'll wait and see what the final product looks like.  Knock yourself out, though.

    Ahh, so what you're saying is, you don't think it has any soul, yet you're unwilling to actually take the time it takes to read into the game whatsoever.

    To paraphrase: 

     

    "LALALALALALALALALALA"

    Originally posted by Phaserlight                                                                                                                                                        The double M in MMORPG, MMOG, or MMO as it's often shortened to these days actually stands for "Massively Multiplayer". It has nothing to do with the size or scope of the game, it has to do with the number of interactions between players playing the game. You can't split those two Ms up without changing the original meaning of the term.[1]

    Saying a game is Massive has nothing to do specifically with the number of interactions between players.  Massively Multiplayer is really an inseparable term.  It's not important to this game in particular, but if you're going to argue semantics at least get the terms right.

    Anyway, the title of this thread is somewhat ludicrous, and I feel like I'm shedding too many neurons here.  That's all from this one for a while.

    So you take all that time to argue that, in your opinion, I got the definition wrong...and then didn't actual bring up any argument as to why Star Citizen is not a MMO.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by Brenelael
     

    Times have changed and you haven't. That is nobody's fault but your own.

     

    Bren

    no times are not changes just peoples are changed & ruined point of MMO genre

    but OK,you won ! ;

    anyway today everything that has a multi player feature is called an mmo  ; LoL , DotA , D3,  COD , BF, ARMA ...

  • wuckswucks Member UncommonPosts: 114


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    not sure...but the more i hear about sc it sounds less and less like a massively open world mmo and more like kinda a multi player spacde fight game? ed seems to go more into the direction of an mmo?

    If anything E:D goes more in the other direction; from the get go people can entirely disable direct interactions with other players. The sheer scale of the universe doesn't give me high hopes of actually meeting many other people once things are rolling either.

    Neither ever proclaimed to be an mmo however, so quite why people are surprised is hard to say... we'll see on Friday how good at offering the illusion of an mmo E:D is.

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Originally posted by wucks

     


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    not sure...but the more i hear about sc it sounds less and less like a massively open world mmo and more like kinda a multi player spacde fight game? ed seems to go more into the direction of an mmo?

     

    If anything E:D goes more in the other direction; from the get go people can entirely disable direct interactions with other players. The sheer scale of the universe doesn't give me high hopes of actually meeting many other people once things are rolling either.

    Neither ever proclaimed to be an mmo however, so quite why people are surprised is hard to say... we'll see on Friday how good at offering the illusion of an mmo E:D is.

    Just because the space is the biggest in a game ever, doesn't mean that ALL space in E:D will be unpopulated. A very large part of space (larger than SCs playable space) will be densely populated by players/NPCs. Then you'll have all the rest of the known Universe to go lose yourself in if you want.

     

    ..Cake..

  • EntinerintEntinerint Member UncommonPosts: 868

    If you do not consider MP Freelancer an MMO then you can't consider SC an MMO either.  They will be functionally identical.

     

    It is multiplayer.

     

    It is online.

     

    But it is NOT massive.  The servers will not handle "massive" amounts of players.  Probably around 256 people at a time.  Nowhere close to over 1000.  That's the same size as MAG, a shooter for PS3 which is also not an MMO.

     

    http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

     

     

  • wuckswucks Member UncommonPosts: 114


    Originally posted by sgel
    Originally posted by wucks   Originally posted by Nemesis7884 not sure...but the more i hear about sc it sounds less and less like a massively open world mmo and more like kinda a multi player spacde fight game? ed seems to go more into the direction of an mmo?
      If anything E:D goes more in the other direction; from the get go people can entirely disable direct interactions with other players. The sheer scale of the universe doesn't give me high hopes of actually meeting many other people once things are rolling either. Neither ever proclaimed to be an mmo however, so quite why people are surprised is hard to say... we'll see on Friday how good at offering the illusion of an mmo E:D is.
    Just because the space is the biggest in a game ever, doesn't mean that ALL space in E:D will be unpopulated. A very large part of space (larger than SCs playable space) will be densely populated by players/NPCs. Then you'll have all the rest of the known Universe to go lose yourself in if you want.

     


    It's all very well saying that space will be full of players but I've yet to see one way that stands up to scrutiny that will make players meet up in any great numbers. A few weeks in and it seems all but impossible the majority of players will be spread far too thin - unless the universe is contrived and small in scale despite the number of systems. If I can travel half way across the galaxy in an hour or two then it's not big; if I can't then player interactions will be sparse for lots of people once the game gets going.

    This doesn't really concern me, I didn't buy either game for an mmo experience. More curious as to how they plan to 'solve' player interactions.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    If you do not consider MP Freelancer an MMO then you can't consider SC an MMO either.  They will be functionally identical.

     

    It is multiplayer.

     

    It is online.

     

    But it is NOT massive.  The servers will not handle "massive" amounts of players.  Probably around 256 people at a time.  Nowhere close to over 1000.  That's the same size as MAG, a shooter for PS3 which is also not an MMO.

     

    http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

     

     

    Even Chris Roberts is referring to the Persistent Universe as a MMO at this point. Every player online will be in the same Universe just like EVE. The difference being that locally it will be instanced unlike EVE to prevent the game from turning into a slide show. If you've ever been to Jita in EVE you know what I mean by that. All players will be in the same Universe however and anyone can and will interact with anyone else. There will just be a cap on how many players can fit into any one encounter instance. In other instances like on a planetside port these instance player caps will be much higher however.

     

    The main point is that all players will be in the same Universe. There wont be any lobby or limitation on who can interact with who. Everyone will share the same Universal "Instance". This is Massively Multiplayer by anyone's definition. The only thing it wont be is an RPG as it will not have any form of leveling mechanic. It would be considered a MMOFPS if anything.

     

    Since that FAQ was written Mr. Roberts has stated that what he meant is it won't be just a MMO by the traditional sense of the term as it will also have both Single Player and Private Server limited Multiplayer components as well.

     

    Freelancer isn't considered a MMO because there is an overall cap on how many players can fit into any one instance of the game universe. Star Citizen will not have that limitation however. There will be only one universal game instance that every player will occupy. it's only at the local level that it will be broken up when needed to maintain playability.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • screecwescreecwe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    If you do not consider MP Freelancer an MMO then you can't consider SC an MMO either.  They will be functionally identical.

     

    It is multiplayer.

     

    It is online.

     

    But it is NOT massive.  The servers will not handle "massive" amounts of players.  Probably around 256 people at a time.  Nowhere close to over 1000.  That's the same size as MAG, a shooter for PS3 which is also not an MMO.

     

    http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

     

     

    Even Chris Roberts is referring to the Persistent Universe as a MMO at this point. Every player online will be in the same Universe just like EVE. The difference being that locally it will be instanced unlike EVE to prevent the game from turning into a slide show. If you've ever been to Jita in EVE you know what I mean by that. All players will be in the same Universe however and anyone can and will interact with anyone else. There will just be a cap on how many players can fit into any one encounter instance. In other instances like on a planetside port these instance player caps will be much higher however.

     

    The main point is that all players will be in the same Universe. There wont be any lobby or limitation on who can interact with who. Everyone will share the same Universal "Instance". This is Massively Multiplayer by anyone's definition. The only thing it wont be is an RPG as it will not have any form of leveling mechanic. It would be considered a MMOFPS if anything.

     

    Since that FAQ was written Mr. Roberts has stated that what he meant is it won't be just a MMO by the traditional sense of the term as it will also have both Single Player and Private Server limited Multiplayer components as well.

     

    Freelancer isn't considered a MMO because there is an overall cap on how many players can fit into any one instance of the game universe. Star Citizen will not have that limitation however. There will be only one universal game instance that every player will occupy. it's only at the local level that it will be broken up when needed to maintain playability.

     

    Bren

     

    I get the impression that some of the people here really have no idea what Star Citizen is. 

    It absolutely is an MMO for the reasons Bren up here outlined.

     

    And to add to that, Freelancer allowed 128 players on a server at a time. Star Citizen will be able to conceivably handle millions. 

  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,909
    I thought this thread was going to be about wildstar
  • Chris said they're hoping for 50-70 people in the same instance, maybe more if possible. Flight needs to be fluid and responsive, so I'm very OK with that sacrifice. I love the idea behind EvE but I just find no fun in point n' click in space. So I more than welcome instancing if that's what it takes to have fluid and direct control from the cockpit of my ship.

    To be honest I think just the single player will be worth the price for the game. Multiplayer is just a great extra.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    -1 for being the wrong game, Elite may conceivably be the one closer to an MMO of the bunch not Star Citizen.

    image
  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926

    I wonder why some people are trolling and spouting lies in every Starcitizen thread?

    of course SC is an MMO, the most massive space MMO ever made in fact. They have a huge server architecture already, no other space game has that, ready for millions of players. No lagfest peer2peer wonky concept limited to 16 ships.

    Massive battles with 100 (!!!!!) player ships visible at the same time, seamless areas, wherever you go there can be up to 100 players on your close range radar, plus NPC ships . Massive, massive epic size fleet battles.

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

     

     

    Take some time to read all of the in-universe fiction that has been put out. Especially check out the 13 writer's guides which reveal an extremely detailed universe including the extensive timeline. There was even a video detailing how the concept art guys had to create architecture for every era. For each era, the writers had to create reasons why the architecture was how was  and they had to do mixes of them on each planet. Because in reality, why would a planet have ALL one era of buildings? 

    Transcript of pages

    Not to mention the script for Squadron 42 was at 1000+ pages whereas a normal script would be 120. They're trying to cut it down to 500, but they're not sure yet. 

     

    No, thanks image

    That's nice and all, but it doesn't matter how many pages they have if they fail to pull it together at the end.  A script without a sound director does not a polished experience make.  I'm not invested enough in this game to pour through all that to try and determine whether or not it will be; I think I'll wait and see what the final product looks like.  Knock yourself out, though.

    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    seems  today  players have no idea what is an MMO game,SC is not MMO it is SP game with MP

    Uhh.. How do you figure?

     

    Massive?        √

    Multiplayer?    √

    Online?           √

     

    The wikipedia entry has "MMO" listed as: A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

    It has a single Persistent Universe with a large number of players where your actions affect the entire PU for other players. Maybe this might not fit YOUR personal definition of an MMO, but the rest of us go by the actual definition.

    The double M in MMORPG, MMOG, or MMO as it's often shortened to these days actually stands for "Massively Multiplayer". It has nothing to do with the size or scope of the game, it has to do with the number of interactions between players playing the game. You can't split those two Ms up without changing the original meaning of the term.[1]

    Saying a game is Massive has nothing to do specifically with the number of interactions between players.  Massively Multiplayer is really an inseparable term.  It's not important to this game in particular, but if you're going to argue semantics at least get the terms right.

    Anyway, the title of this thread is somewhat ludicrous, and I feel like I'm shedding too many neurons here.  That's all from this one for a while.

    Nowadays everything is called a MMO.. and i am happy that officially Star Citzizen is not called a MMO. Though.. it is more or less a MMO like Age of Conan without the RPG progression part. Yeap.. it is instanced, it is not a single seamless world.

    And about the game itself.. hell.. if it is just a new Wing Commander + Freelancer i am more than happy.. everything else comes in as a bonus. I have backed it.. but i do avoid to read to much about it. I just want to play the final game. Ok, and get at some point hands on the Arena Commander.. for the very fist simple multiplayer dogfighting.

    And if you want to talk about a soul of a game.. Let's say it like that.. all Wing Commander games + Privateer + Star Lancer + Free Lancer got a soul.. you have only add Elite(and only Elite 1) to get all Space Games with Dog Fighting with a soul. And yes i played X-Wing and all those games, too.. to know what a soulless game is. I have faith he can pull it off one again.

    But on the other side.. it all comes down to expectations.. if you expect something impossible.. or let your imagination overtake your expectation you can only be dissapointed.

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    Massive battles with 100 (!!!!!) player ships visible at the same time, seamless areas, wherever you go there can be up to 100 players on your close range radar, plus NPC ships . Massive, massive epic size fleet battles.

    To be clear here.. They aiming for 100 player ships visible at the same time. At takeing Battlefield 64 vs 64 matches as comparsion it will most likely be possible. But that can change. But as i said in the post before it is a lot like Age of Conan in that regard.. in Age of Conan every zone was limited to 100 or 99 players.

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    Massive battles with 100 (!!!!!) player ships visible at the same time, seamless areas, wherever you go there can be up to 100 players on your close range radar, plus NPC ships . Massive, massive epic size fleet battles.

    To be clear here.. They aiming for 100 player ships visible at the same time. At takeing Battlefield 64 vs 64 matches as comparsion it will most likely be possible. But that can change. But as i said in the post before it is a lot like Age of Conan in that regard.. in Age of Conan every zone was limited to 100 or 99 players.

    100 is a great number, everything less would not qualify for a modern online game, so many ships on the screen is already more than anyone can count in the heat of a battle.

     

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    Originally posted by Utinni
    I thought this thread was going to be about wildstar

    hehe good one. Any space combat in Wildstar? I'd probably check it out!

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926

    Asteroid Hangar basic setup

    http://youtu.be/kU9kVyG6QWQ

    what a beauty

     

    can't wait to place the furniture in this new pilot's homebase

     

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    Originally posted by DocBrody
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    Massive battles with 100 (!!!!!) player ships visible at the same time, seamless areas, wherever you go there can be up to 100 players on your close range radar, plus NPC ships . Massive, massive epic size fleet battles.

    To be clear here.. They aiming for 100 player ships visible at the same time. At takeing Battlefield 64 vs 64 matches as comparsion it will most likely be possible. But that can change. But as i said in the post before it is a lot like Age of Conan in that regard.. in Age of Conan every zone was limited to 100 or 99 players.

    100 is a great number, everything less would not qualify for a modern online game, so many ships on the screen is already more than anyone can count in the heat of a battle.

     

     

    50-70 is the new number (does that includes NPCs?).

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/14/consoles-couldnt-possibly-handle-star-citizen-developer-says/

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/158843/50-to-70-per-instance/p1

    It's a bit of a letdown due of the focus on organisations. Does it still qualify for a modern online game I wonder?

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