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Is it me or GW2 fights are a total mess ?
aSynchro
Member UncommonPosts: 194
While waiting for WoW's next expansion, i'm trying GW2 again.
There's lots of stuff that I like (dynamic events, tag sharing, scalling, no sub etc.) , and lots of frustrations of course (because of it being a themepark) but my biggest complain is the way fighting is done in PvE.
I'll explain my problem with 3 specific examples:
_ In WoW, you know exactly what the mob/boss is going to do. They have some basic melee/magic attacks, but also specific ones that are indicated with a casting bar. So you have 0.5-2 sec to react (move out, interrupt, pop a def cooldown etc.)
In GW2, with the exception of some mob/boss that have an animated move (like, when they raise their arms), you only see the attack when it's too late. ie: when the enemy does it.
_ Also, in GW2 the bosses seems pretty straightforward. I won't compare dungeon bosses because to be honest i didn't do much, but in the open world, 99% of GW2 champions are just "avoid red circles, kill the adds, nuke it for 3 minutes". While in WoW, strategy can be very specific (dps mind-controled players, never face the boss, kite the boss, run away if you have a debuff, don't get touched by adds, avoid circles/waves/lines/stuff, interrupt specific attack, kill the adds ON the boss, AWAY from the boss or WITH the boss own attacks etc. etc.)
_ Last, I have a problem with the way dodging is implemented. While it sounded like a good idea at first, I fail to understand how it is better than the simple "run/jump out of crap" we have in others mmorpg ?
It's kinda sad because there's lots of stuff I like in GW2 combats (rezing players mid-fight, the way everyone can tank/heal/support etc.), but all in all, i feel it's a total mess and i prefer the strategic way WoW handle things.
Comments
You make me like charity
While I agree that GW2 fights definitely seem a mess from outside, that only really applies to public fights (read meta events), dungeons are mostly tight in strategy and execution, you need to react correctly to complete exploration mode dungeons, and they are arguably harder than heroic dungeons or even raids to some degree in WoW if you wish to compare them.
Also the strategy and execution are different beasts in mentioned games, in WoW you focus on crowd controlling enemies or reducing the damage taken from them. In GW2 the focus is in migitating all damage monsters deal and potentially reflect it back to them along with obviously reducing team damage taken and enemy damage dealt.
you are comparing open world encounters (GW2) vs instanced encounters (WOW dungeons/raids)
thats apples and oranges
EQ2 fan sites
I think you just need to get used to it more. I don't personally play GW2 a whole lot, but I go back on occasion, and the combat doesn't feel off to me. The dodge is generally in there to avoid further damage, or negate it all. If you can see an attack incoming, you can avoid entirely, and if there's a longer attack going on where you are getting hit repeatedly, you can take a hit or two and then dodge to avoid the rest when you realize, or your stamina builds back up, I believe.
I haven't done enough dungeons, but yes, I agree the world bosses and stuff are there just to be zerged down.
Anyway, I can see how the combat can come off as clunky to some, though I don't personally notice it.
The poster above me got it right. Dodging is like a bonus skill and and the cooldown becomes especially important in really tough fights (think of Liadri).
So I don't quite understand why you would want it removed OP. You basically have the whole world of MMOs at your disposal - why would you want to remove this one feature that differs this MMO from all the others?
Let me try... Google "Oondasta wipes".
Dat skill boss encounter...............
l2p
It's very hard to compair these games with eachother since there combat mechanics are so different from eachother. However Raids are something I feel no mmo outthere can come close to WOW so If a player loves raiding then this would be a game I recommend to them. GW2 is like you say more of a mess, mostly cause most players don't really know what to do in many combat situations.
Like you say world bosses is avoid red circles and zerg boss 3 min then he is dead however this is not always true, if you take Tequatl and wurm these are bosses that require 100-150 people to raid together and it has to be tactical otherwise you won't stand a chance. 150 man raid is something that would never work in WOW but in the combat mess of GW2 it can be coordinated with sucess with a good commander and teamspeak.
But then again I would never recommend GW2 to a hardcore wow player since the games are so different.
I think ANet is improving. It's a gradual thing, and I'm not sure what they have in the pipeline for dungeons.
Just recently with the Queens Gauntlet, I was impressed with the Ogre boss which summons Hawks. During the fight, he'll throw or spawn bird seeds, and you need these bird seeds to distract the Hawks away from the Ogre. What happens when the Hawks surround the Ogre? You get Retaliated, meaning all the damage you deal is reflected back at you. So going gung-ho-DPS is suicide.
It had happened a lot of times to me, and I was wondering where the damage was coming from. When I looked at the Ogre's description, it said "Spawn Hawks", and when I looked at the Hawks it said "Retaliates Incoming Damage." So when I got back up thanks to someone rezzing, I picked up these bird seeds and threw them away from the boss. The Hawks went to the bird seed, and the Ogre was susceptible to damage. This goes on and on: throw bird seed, DPS him down, throw bird seed, etc.
The fight was really fun. Eventually, people picked-up what was happening. It's funny when people just continue DPSing even with the Hawks surrounding the boss.
I do wish more bosses were this complex, but it's going to take time. However, they are improving. The first sign came when they added the Marionette fight, which broke up the zerg into groups. Who knows what they'll pull out next?
its the nature of non holy trinity and twitch style combat.
thats why i still prefer the old grumpy tab target style.
i cant play anymore mmo's like Tera / GW2 / ESO / EQN, they all seem to dull and zergy by nature.
Altough EQN still has not much shown of their combat yet, i can only asume its more like GW2 / ESO.
I hate it
Let me try... Google "Oondasta wipes".
Than let me try too... Google "Tequatl wipes".
To echo some of the others above, it's not you.
ANet ballyhooed the fact that GW2 would not have the trinity, as if the trinity was the worst thing ever.
It's not.
There are systems much worse than the trinity, and GW2 proved it by creating a system that's FAR worse.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
The tougher named bosses do have animations you react to, like Claw of Jormag or the Legendary risen priest of melandru. Heck, even the champ Oakhart have it but most regular champions are a lot harder to predict. You will still be able to in most cases once you get really used to it.
Dungeon bosses are easier to predict but tougher.
And yes, regular open world bosses are straightforward but are they that different in Wow?
Dodging is awesome, what makes my thief survive but it take some time to get used to it if you are used to playing games like Wow. Try farming a few veteran oakharts in QD while you train, they are pretty easy to dodge (they are huge with rather slow animations) and is a perfect way to learn the ropes.
When you really get it you can solo most bosses in cursed shores (personally I can't take down Rotbeard and the mainbosses of the Arrah and temple events but besides them it will just take me some time).
The main thing about combat in GW2 is positioning and dodging at the right time. But you get used to it after a while and that opens up a rather different world.
Thinking that combat is totally chaotic is a mistake, it might look so in the beginning but there is actually a pretty interesting group dynamic and if you play in a small tight group you can take down really tough bosses. A lot of us are rather used to the trinity combat and it takes some playing to get how things really work in a game like this.
Try join a good guild and run some things with them, easiest and most fun way to learn the ropes.
GW2 combat is a mess in general. Its one of the games weakest points and I feel the most damning. It wanted so hard to push action combat, yet didn't know how to do it that it made things just horrible. Jump in dungeons and the problem increases 10 fold, practically needing the right group comp and good cheesing of the AI to beat (Trash, bosses are usually no issue at all).
I don't think how wow does it is perfect mind you, but it executes its combat to me a lot better then GW2. Games like Tera and upcoming Wildstar really showed how to do action combat right, both in their own ways, something GW2 I feel failed badly at.
Try Tequatl or "Evolved Jungle Wurm"
OTOH, tell me how to avoid targeted attack in WoW (no red circle) and ill tell you what dodge is for.
Tera and WS are one of the worst combats out there, Tera especilly, action combat that....couldnt lol.
Hopefully we wont see any more of those abominations.
Alright, name better and show me. Seriously, I'll be here waiting for a good response.
Or heck at least highlight what makes them bad to prove your point.
GW2 trumps those two, its a no brainer.
"practically needing the right group comp and good cheesing of the AI to beat"
This seems like Purutzil who...couldnt.
Ill take more complex team based combat over simplistic trinity any time. ESPECIALLY for PvP.
GW2 combat designed and ideal for small scale PvP (5 vs 5)
then you can see what happens, use combo fields properly, you can have very fun, deep and engaging team play
BUT, if you scale same mechanic to large PvP battles or to large PvE, it can sometimes looks awful because of visual noice. You even can't see a Boss because of thousads visual-effects.
But they improving. They made at least well-visible void-zones already
They decreased level of effects. They need to contionue this way.
I like that i have options. If i want to unwind or im not in a mood for coordination i go to big baddie and just 11111111111 ;P or zerg in www.
I dont know why there should be only 1 type of content, MMOs should be about options not pigeonholing (pigeonholing like cookie cutter themeparks do it) and GW2 provides variety of options.
But some entitled people just cant get over that it seems.