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With the annoucement that a new team of volunteers is working on the game, a more pulled back direction on the creation of content for the time being, and a new direction for community involvement, I think its time to accept that this game will get made, regardless of the news floating around.
The simple fact of the matter here is that Brad is still going to put the game out, and while it is unfortunate that things internally didnt go as planned, the vilification of Mcquaid as some sort of monstorous human being is literally founded in internet posts, blurry facebook photos, and a slew of other questionable sources.
Im sorry but I cant logically assume Brad is a terrible person and deserves all this hate, simply based on the information available to us. If there was more concrete reliable news sites posting on the subject, or researching, then you might have something.
But this whole run of internet journalism isnt an abjucated process, its literally word of mouth dicussions that snowball into entire threads and posts about how much they hate a singular person working on a very small time game.
Im not saying Brad hasnt made mistakes in the past or even now, but trust me, this game is still getting made, accept it, live with it.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
Okay... I trust you.
It might be hard for me to accept and certainly will be difficult to live with but...I trust you. We will get through this together.
SoE will support Brad when they have free resources. Landmark/EQN/H1Z1 have them stretched thin otherwise theyd be all over this.
Saying Vaporware is just a piss in the pool my friend.
You know what the games people screamed vaporware at?
Duke Nukem Forever
Who cares if he's a good or bad person. Not sure why anyone even tries to bring that up. People care about what goes on with the money they "donate" and if they'll ever see a game made from it.
At this point who is going to invest enough money into this project to ever actually see an mmo made ? If he was going to make a reality TV show I'd say he's gone about it in the best possible way. Convincing people to invest millions into his game....not so much.
i think it's unfortunate that the site is still accepting pledges but giving this disclaimer
ANY MONEY PLEDGED WILL NOT BEING GOING TOWARDS DEVELOPMENT AT THIS TIME; INSTEAD IT WILL GO TOWARDS KEEPING THE WEBSITE UP AND RUNNING AND TO OTHER MAINTENANCE COSTS. WE WILL ADVISE YOU WHEN AND IF THIS CHANGES.
on April 30th, Brad posted he's likely returning to Kickstarter / Indiegogo in 1-2 months
good luck w that ..
EQ2 fan sites
The difference being the companies which worked on, made and finally produced the above games you listed were actually "on the hook" for the money so to speak- They were vested. A loss meant a loss of their own money.
In this case this is a fan funded project where the devs can s[pend money on whatever they like with no oversight nor anything "on the line"- Hell, do nothing and pay off 45K in hospital bills for a few months "work" (i.e. Asking people for money)
In other words- There is no incentive here and the company leadership has proven themselves shady already (so handing them MORE money with no oversight probably wont fix the issue)
Brad and company will be laughing all the way to the bank- Then "oops" we failed- Not enough money (but probably some bills paid off, personal accounts used on personal things and payed for by backers, a nice salary while "working" on the "game" etc...)
Yes... Vaporware like a motherfucker and some people just never learn.
I've never believed in the concept behind this game, and after this latest string of crap I don't believe Brad anymore. After Vanguard I could have given him a pass due to the timing of everything surrounding WoW and the new VP at Microsoft. I just question his judgement now.
As the saying goes. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Not going for a third time.
I think at this point we could organize a kickstarter to oppose Pantheon and raise more money to prevent development, than Brad can for it.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Honestly I smell a troll.
Brad has volunteers with NO experience in the gaming industry. He failed with people who were experienced in the gaming industry. That does not bode well for the project. Now let's factor in that he needs to find an angel investor (i.e. dumb money) to accomplish any semblance of an MMORPG.
How much evidence of Brad's lack of management skill do you need? Former Vanguard and Pantheon staff both criticize his ability to manage any type of game development. The official Pantheon Facebook page announced to the world that Brad himself took AT LEAST $45000 for his own personal needs from crowdfunded money. That is a fact, not hearsay, not opinion, but COLD HARD FACT. You can keep your blinders up all you want, but this little experiment to see how much money the name "Brad McQuaid" could bring in is already complete, and the final result is half as much Brad thought it would. And then a quarter of that when there are no protections from KickStarter.
I look forward to seeing this go back on KickStarter or Indiegogo, just to insert some actual numbers into how much gross mismanagement will cost a startup company. Keep those blinders up OP and please feel free to donate as you see fit, but don't try to persuade other people to do the same. Brad McQuaid's last MMO will be Vanguard, and much like him it will be offline shortly.
I'm glad you have a dream, don't stop believing!
I never heard of Brad McWhatever nor cared much bout Pantheon except for one thing, that he embezzled 45k dollars and pray that this is taken to court.
Yeah a group of volunteers with no pay and any donations taken I have little doubt that Brad will feel obiligated to take a grossly overpaid salary of 160k while the "volunteers" don't get a dime. Do you really think this game will ever become anything based on volunteer work who will likely have massive turnarounds? Whatever they do develop will likely be like playing Super Mario Bros in today's age.
Yeah it might still come and it might take years, but this will be a volunteer thing or fan thing only which Brad better find some other work to pay the bills.
I want pantheon made. I want Brad to be a lead designer. I dont want him in charge of the company making it.
This game will be made. Do not doubt, and rising like a phoenix, I wouldnt be suprised if it was hugely successful and end up being "the" hardcore MMO experience players are craving for - I look forward to the day all the vaporware trolls get to eat thier words.
I for one, will be playing Pantheon.
I direct you back to my earlier post. A group of experienced people couldn't do it, yet you think a group of volunteers can? MMOs need more than hopes and dreams.. Hell look at how many fail that have the experience, backing, and an actual budget. They couldn't put together a Kickstarter that had any organization or real content, yet you expect an actual MMO to come out of this? Has Brad ever addressed his taking $45000 and personally owned up to it? But you still trust him I guess. Listen to what his former staff have to say about him and get out before your wallet floats away.
There's a difference between a few trolls occasionally claiming a product is vaporware and 50% of all MMO gamers saying it. Tack on the fact that volunteer games roughly take 10 times longer to make and we have the very definition of Vaporware with Pantheon.
Have fun waiting until 2024 for a buggy release of a game that's probably still worse then playing Project 1999 for free.
I'm at the point where I feel mmorpg.com itself should take a stance on this matter and banish this vaporware from the forums.
All these ""donate now" threads while it's known that Brad has stolen money is like encouraging people to support a criminal.
If brad had ever made a game that wasn't completely broken I would be all over it. Sadly he hasn't and the kickstarter reflected the peoples awareness of this fact. I recently watched the incredibly bad demo that came with a disclaimer, but speaking from history, that's probably extremely close to the disclaimer the game would have to have if or when it went live. That demo was straight up awful and looks exactly like Vanguard's graphics from what.....10 years ago? I would have loved to see the EQ revamp go through, one of my favorite games, especially after Verant and Brad gave up and sold it. But SOE is going another direction I guess with EQ Next, oh well. Oh, and it may be worth mentioning that Brad has turned over two broken games to SOE, EQ and Vanguard. Since SOE is busy ATM who is going to fix his next broken game?
I highly doubt he'll go with Kickstarter. He was pretty clear about regretting that choice back in January because with Kickstarter, you only get money if you meet your goal. He said something about preferring to go with Indigogo since you get any money pledged regardless of meeting your goal or not...
If he does do Kickstarter, you can bet the "goal" will be something very low, like 50k. He's kind of sleazy like that.
You make me like charity
Darkfall (I assume you mean the remake) was never considered vaporware. People knew it was coming out; they just also knew the developer sucked and so they didn't exactly hold out much hope for it being very good.
Duke Nukem Forever WAS vaporware for, like, 15 years. The fact that someone eventually released a crappy game with the same title doesn't change the fact.
LA Noire was definitely a slow release, but it was a big game that changed publishers a few times. Not to mention it was a Rockstar game, pretty much all of which take a while to make.
"Fucking" Morrowind had a typical development time for a game, especially considering they had to build or implement a lot of technology from the ground up. They really didn't start working on the game until something like 1999 after Redguard had launched. Morrowind was released in Early 2002, so not really sure how you consider that vaporware.
You make me like charity
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Someone should see if SOE will sell whatever it had accrued before it switched to the new EQ NEXT concept. I am with you on this one Tyggs. Would love to see the original EQ remade.
I'm sorry but you're now being completely illogical.
You're taking for a fact that the game will be made when there's only Brad's word that he's attempting to make the game, we know that Kickstarter failed, we know that Brad's attempts to get investors have so far failed, we know that their attempt to get crowdfunding through their own website has failed, and we know they already lost their first dev team due to all their problems.
If you wish to trust Brad's word despite all the evidence that points to the possibility of the game not being made, then that's your choice. But it's really illogical to tell us to accept it for a fact and live with it. Why should we trust into you, when logic and facts point to the contrary?
I don't understand why Brad needs our money to make his game. Didn't he make enough money to make a low budget mmo from his time at SoE and the selling of Vanguard. If he wants me to trust him, he needs to use his own money for the entire process. He might actually make a good game then instead of robbing the EQ community who wants to believe he will make the next EQ successor.
P.S. Microsoft backed off this guy. Microsoft. They are notorious for releasing trash to just patch it later. And they were scared of him.