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Something to consider

SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

 

Something to consider.

I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

Please do not respond to me

Comments

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

    Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

     

    Something to consider.

    I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

    Well you have to consider that they did also promise an open development as well. I'm not seeing a lot of money being wasted on PR either... Did you see the DFM reveal? Definitely not the level of professional PR BS that we are used to in the gaming world which is a good thing. Things like Wingman's Hangar, 10 for the Chairman and The Next Great Starship are paid for by extra money donated by the community through subscriptions as well so they don't really deduct from the main "Resource Pool" either.

     

    Most of their Press also just comes from interested gaming news outlets and not some expensive marketing campaign as well. They seem to be doing just what was promised from the very beginning of the Crowd Funding campaign. They warned us upfront that there would most likely be delays and any projected release estimates were just that... estimates. This was right on the front page of their Kickstarter as well as in the FAQ section at the RSI website from the very beginning.

     

    They have been very candid with the backers and the general public from the start. They never delay without spelling out very clearly the reasons why. This is the main reason why most people have not ran to get their pitchforks and torches whenever there has been a delay of any kind. CIG has done a more than adequate job of keeping us informed of what they are up to without wasting resources that would be better spent on development to do it. Other developers and Publishers should take note as this is how a gaming community should be treated.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

    Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

     

    Something to consider.

    I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

    The game has almost twice the budget they needed. Yeah some of it will go to things like the mocap studio, orchestral sound, facial recognition software, procedural generation research and so on, but I am sure they have a big chunk to cover delays and extra expenses. Also to consider that they are still raking in some 35-40K a day on average and that is without a ship sale or alpha.

    Also what do you mean by PR exactly? CIG has a tiny marketing department, basically Sandi and a couple others and their weekly shows, beside being funded by the subscribers, are clearly low key affairs not stealing development time.

    Do note that CR has never released a game on time even when he had a publisher checking on his work, it is foolish to think SC will be released on time, though it is also foolish on CIG behalf to actually give release dates instead of pulling a Blizzard ("when it is done") or working on Valve time.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

    Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

     

    Something to consider.

    I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

    The game has almost twice the budget they needed. Yeah some of it will go to things like the mocap studio, orchestral sound, facial recognition software, procedural generation research and so on, but I am sure they have a big chunk to cover delays and extra expenses. Also to consider that they are still raking in some 35-40K a day on average and that is without a ship sale or alpha.

    Also what do you mean by PR exactly? CIG has a tiny marketing department, basically Sandi and a couple others and their weekly shows, beside being funded by the subscribers, are clearly low key affairs not stealing development time.

    Do note that CR has never released a game on time even when he had a publisher checking on his work, it is foolish to think SC will be released on time, though it is also foolish on CIG behalf to actually give release dates instead of pulling a Blizzard ("when it is done") or working on Valve time.

    Exactly how do we know it has twice the budget it needs to deliver on what they are now targeting?

    1. Keep in mind originally they had planned to have a kickstarter as well as investors. Once the amount was more than they had expected they decided to not do the investor part which means they need that money.

    2. They currently have less than a standard budget for an MMO let alone one of this high quality.

    3. open development is fine its just be aware that every late target chips into estimated features. Late means costs more than expected. I am not suggesting one should release something unexpected I am just saying you might wake up and find out ALL the money had to be used for the dog fighting module.

     

     

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • movros99movros99 Member UncommonPosts: 125

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have.

     

    This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have. This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    that is fair, however, did they shatter all estimates for the dog fighting module specifically or did they just add more modules given more of the money.?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have. This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    that is fair, however, did they shatter all estimates for the dog fighting module specifically or did they just add more modules given more of the money.?

    You are equating modules to money which is the wrong way to think of it. The amount of money raised at any given stretch goal has really nothing to do with the stretch goal itself. The goal was just a "Prize" for reaching that amount. All of the stretch goals were planned for the game anyways at some point more money just means we will see them sooner rather than later.

     

    Do you really think CIG spent 1 million dollars on a fish tank or even a Mocap Studio? Of course they didn't. The total amount raised goes toward the entire development process and they haven't divided it up to cover certain parts at all. Some modules will cost more than others to produce but it's all figured into the bottom line at the end of the day.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have. This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    that is fair, however, did they shatter all estimates for the dog fighting module specifically or did they just add more modules given more of the money.?

    You are equating modules to money which is the wrong way to think of it. The amount of money raised at any given stretch goal has really nothing to do with the stretch goal itself. The goal was just a "Prize" for reaching that amount. All of the stretch goals were planned for the game anyways at some point more money just means we will see them sooner rather than later.

     

    Do you really think CIG spent 1 million dollars on a fish tank or even a Mocap Studio? Of course they didn't. The total amount raised goes toward the entire development process and they haven't divided up to cover certain parts at all. Some modules will cost more than others to produce but it's all figured into the bottom line at the end of the day.

     

    Bren

    I firmly believe that they are spending the money honestly. I believe that other than the PR efforts which come from a different purse they are all putting their best efforts into this project.

    I think they just underestimated how much was involved in the multiplayer and time is money. so it could be possible that the feature list will start to shrink. 

     

    So what I am telling people is to be a little wary, do not get over excited at this point. Thus far they havent prooven much

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,733
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

     

    Of course if you BUDGET for projects correctly you always allow for deadline slippage and therefore there need not be "extra" money expended. And, if you meet a project goal too easily, you are setting your goal too low. Very few projects EVER run on time and missed goal dates are almost always budgeted in.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have. This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    that is fair, however, did they shatter all estimates for the dog fighting module specifically or did they just add more modules given more of the money.?

    You are equating modules to money which is the wrong way to think of it. The amount of money raised at any given stretch goal has really nothing to do with the stretch goal itself. The goal was just a "Prize" for reaching that amount. All of the stretch goals were planned for the game anyways at some point more money just means we will see them sooner rather than later.

     

    Do you really think CIG spent 1 million dollars on a fish tank or even a Mocap Studio? Of course they didn't. The total amount raised goes toward the entire development process and they haven't divided up to cover certain parts at all. Some modules will cost more than others to produce but it's all figured into the bottom line at the end of the day.

     

    Bren

    I firmly believe that they are spending the money honestly. I believe that other than the PR efforts which come from a different purse they are all putting their best efforts into this project.

    I think they just underestimated how much was involved in the multiplayer and time is money. so it could be possible that the feature list will start to shrink. 

     

    So what I am telling people is to be a little wary, do not get over excited at this point. Thus far they havent prooven much

    Being wary is smart and I don't argue that. One thing I can recommend however is keeping an open mind until you give them a chance to prove themselves with the DFM which should release around the end of the month give or take. At this point we should have a better idea if our trust in them is well placed or not.

     

    Oh and one more thing... Did you know that Eric 'Wingman' Peterson is canceling Wingman's Hangar next month? His reasoning is that it's taking too much of his time that could be better spent on development.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by movros99

    How is the game late???

    The funding campaign was more successful than expected and the dev's decided to restructure the module release dates due to in increased capability to provide certain products. 

    You say it time to stop focusing on PR and more on the work?  They've been working hard on the game.  We know this because the money subscribers have been donating so CIG can produce informational items like Wingman's hanger and Ten for the Chairman informational videos. 

    Nothing about your post makes sense or in any way represents reality.

    nevermind my comments on PR for the moment, its something I think they should do less of but to be honest I do not fully  know how its funded. What I primarily want to address is the timeline. follow me closely I will use an example:

    I say: 'we need X million of dollars in order to complete module Y'

    you say: 'super cool here is some money we understand that it might not happen but we are excited about it'

    I say: 'Sorry but we are late on module X'

    you say: 'thats ok'

    accountant says: 'moving that timeline now costs us more than we had expected because people are paid weekly we best either get more money, drop some features, or put on hold other aspects'

     

    you see when they ask for money its based on an estimate on how much it will cost and that cost is based on TIME..

    Dog fighting module is late, that costs MONEY....where does that extra money come from?

     

    Yes but you are missing one crucial point in all of this. When they originally made those estimates they had a rough idea of what their money would be like at the end of the funding campaign. Between that time and December they smashed all crowd funding records and ended up with over twice as much money as they originally estimated they would have. This allowed them to broaden their scope to include the Back-end Hardware and Software that they would later need for the Persistent Universe anyways. They decided instead of making a temporary back-end using CryEngine's own built in multi-player code which they would later have to discard they could move up the programming of the PU back-end. This allowed them to actually save time and money as they will only need this one Back-end code base for the rest of the development cycle instead of throwing out something thrown together now to reprogram it from scratch later.

     

    Yes this addition has delayed the DFM but it will actually save time later in development as they won't have to reprogram it down the road and they haven't wasted time and money throwing together a temporary solution just to get the DFM out on time for the original estimate. Every module that follows will benefit from them taking the time now to do this right.

     

    Bren

    that is fair, however, did they shatter all estimates for the dog fighting module specifically or did they just add more modules given more of the money.?

    You are equating modules to money which is the wrong way to think of it. The amount of money raised at any given stretch goal has really nothing to do with the stretch goal itself. The goal was just a "Prize" for reaching that amount. All of the stretch goals were planned for the game anyways at some point more money just means we will see them sooner rather than later.

     

    Do you really think CIG spent 1 million dollars on a fish tank or even a Mocap Studio? Of course they didn't. The total amount raised goes toward the entire development process and they haven't divided up to cover certain parts at all. Some modules will cost more than others to produce but it's all figured into the bottom line at the end of the day.

     

    Bren

    I firmly believe that they are spending the money honestly. I believe that other than the PR efforts which come from a different purse they are all putting their best efforts into this project.

    I think they just underestimated how much was involved in the multiplayer and time is money. so it could be possible that the feature list will start to shrink. 

     

    So what I am telling people is to be a little wary, do not get over excited at this point. Thus far they havent prooven much

    Being wary is smart and I don't argue that. One thing I can recommend however is keeping an open mind until you give them a chance to prove themselves with the DFM which should release around the end of the month give or take. At this point we should have a better idea if our trust in them is well placed or not.

     

    Oh and one more thing... Did you know that Eric 'Wingman' Peterson is canceling Wingman's Hangar next month? His reasoning is that it's taking too much of his time that could be better spent on development.

     

    Bren

    agree and that is when I will put my money forward. Once its fairly clean. A few bugs is fine.

     

    I have been playing Space Engineers and that is a great example of an 'in dev' game that is good enough to release. Very clean.

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

    Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

     

    Something to consider.

    I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

    The game has almost twice the budget they needed. Yeah some of it will go to things like the mocap studio, orchestral sound, facial recognition software, procedural generation research and so on, but I am sure they have a big chunk to cover delays and extra expenses. Also to consider that they are still raking in some 35-40K a day on average and that is without a ship sale or alpha.

    Also what do you mean by PR exactly? CIG has a tiny marketing department, basically Sandi and a couple others and their weekly shows, beside being funded by the subscribers, are clearly low key affairs not stealing development time.

    Do note that CR has never released a game on time even when he had a publisher checking on his work, it is foolish to think SC will be released on time, though it is also foolish on CIG behalf to actually give release dates instead of pulling a Blizzard ("when it is done") or working on Valve time.

    Exactly how do we know it has twice the budget it needs to deliver on what they are now targeting?

    1. Keep in mind originally they had planned to have a kickstarter as well as investors. Once the amount was more than they had expected they decided to not do the investor part which means they need that money.

    2. They currently have less than a standard budget for an MMO let alone one of this high quality.

    3. open development is fine its just be aware that every late target chips into estimated features. Late means costs more than expected. I am not suggesting one should release something unexpected I am just saying you might wake up and find out ALL the money had to be used for the dog fighting module.

     

     

     

    1. Just by what CR said. 23-25 millions was his budget; that included all the features currently planned for release. Did not include the extras planned for after release, like atmospheric flight and procedural generated planets.

    2. True, but they have more than enough for an AAA single player game. Keep in mind a big chunk of money spent by big publishers is massive advertisement campaign and having to pay for the whole structure, neither of which CIG had to do, cutting considerably in their needed expenses. Also we have no idea how much money more "indie" titles like EVE or jumpgate costed to develop. 

    3. As mentioned before, CR never released a game on time. He is very aware of this (Strike Commander even won mock awards for best Vaporware of the year or something of the sort) so I would assume delays are included in the budget. Also see the point where they are still getting over 30K dollars a day in pledges.

    In conclusion, I'm not worried they will run out of money any time soon, but if people want to be cautious, that too is perfectly fine.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,844

    The Star Citizen marketing appears to be based on milking the whales.  Which it's doing well, apparently.

     

    Roberts has complete conviction in what he says, regardless of its connection to reality.  It does help to sell the spiel though.   As a project manager, I put him slightly ahead of Richard Garriott, though that's not saying much....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    A very large part of this game development is the cost of time. In fact it might be nearly all of it.

    Thus if you extrapolate the projected estimate of a module over how late the module is to deliver you can get a good idea of how much over budget this game will cost. For every day they are late it cost money. Where does that money come from?

     

    Something to consider.

    I love the idea of this game and I love that they are pushing the graphics to the limit but I think its time for them to stop the PR and focus on the work at this point. A dog fighting module is not an MMO, they have a looong way to go

    The game has almost twice the budget they needed. Yeah some of it will go to things like the mocap studio, orchestral sound, facial recognition software, procedural generation research and so on, but I am sure they have a big chunk to cover delays and extra expenses. Also to consider that they are still raking in some 35-40K a day on average and that is without a ship sale or alpha.

    Also what do you mean by PR exactly? CIG has a tiny marketing department, basically Sandi and a couple others and their weekly shows, beside being funded by the subscribers, are clearly low key affairs not stealing development time.

    Do note that CR has never released a game on time even when he had a publisher checking on his work, it is foolish to think SC will be released on time, though it is also foolish on CIG behalf to actually give release dates instead of pulling a Blizzard ("when it is done") or working on Valve time.

    Exactly how do we know it has twice the budget it needs to deliver on what they are now targeting?

    1. Keep in mind originally they had planned to have a kickstarter as well as investors. Once the amount was more than they had expected they decided to not do the investor part which means they need that money.

    2. They currently have less than a standard budget for an MMO let alone one of this high quality.

    3. open development is fine its just be aware that every late target chips into estimated features. Late means costs more than expected. I am not suggesting one should release something unexpected I am just saying you might wake up and find out ALL the money had to be used for the dog fighting module.

     

     

     

    1. Just by what CR said. 23-25 millions was his budget; that included all the features currently planned for release. Did not include the extras planned for after release, like atmospheric flight and procedural generated planets.

    2. True, but they have more than enough for an AAA single player game. Keep in mind a big chunk of money spent by big publishers is massive advertisement campaign and having to pay for the whole structure, neither of which CIG had to do, cutting considerably in their needed expenses. Also we have no idea how much money more "indie" titles like EVE or jumpgate costed to develop. 

    3. As mentioned before, CR never released a game on time. He is very aware of this (Strike Commander even won mock awards for best Vaporware of the year or something of the sort) so I would assume delays are included in the budget. Also see the point where they are still getting over 30K dollars a day in pledges.

    In conclusion, I'm not worried they will run out of money any time soon, but if people want to be cautious, that too is perfectly fine.

    so I think what gets overlooked is this. I will illustrate by example.

    Dev says 'this will release in 6 months and it will cost 10 million dollars'

    If it actually takes 12 months the cost is actually more around 20 million dollars. Its NOT 12 months and still only 10 million.

     

    This is the point I am trying to make people aware of

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

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