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So how isnt this pay to win, and skill based.

24

Comments

  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Member UncommonPosts: 955
    Originally posted by Coman
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Pay to win = the company actively promotes and encourages you to spend money on their systems (i.e cash shop) to gain advantages over other players who choose not to spend money.

    End of. That is the definition of the term.

    Throwing it around loosely because you dislike how others choose to play the game is something that will get you zero support around here.

     

    If I run around with a knife in counter-strike, the person with a AK and armor has a bigger change of winning.

     

    Not if the guy with the AK had no idea which end the bullet came out of, which pretty much sums up the two month old toon that buys himself a battleship that he has no idea how to fly or what modules do what.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    This discussion is interesting but it's a moot point, like most discussions about Eve - The central, insurmountable, problem with Eve is that it's becoming obsolete.

     

    Why bother with 3 separate games (Eve Online, DUST, Valkyrie) when you will be able play a game that aims to do all 3 facets in the same game (such as Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen)?

     

    Eve becoming obsolete isn't a question of 'if' - it's a question of whether it will happen in 2015 or 2016.

     

     

    Eve is nothing if its not a game that evolves over time, but i think your misreading the situation, and while Dust may be a lost cause, and Valkyrie an unknown factor, games like Elite; Dangerous and Star Citizen are more than capable of existing side by side with Eve, i don't think its going to be a question of either/or in whether people play them, if anything it just broadens the spectrum of Sci/fi games, which is currently very sparse, with few successes and more than its fair share of failures. I don't see Eve changing in that sense, it will in all probability remain the niche game that has always been, what may happen though, is that the games that people play alongside Eve, are dropped in favour of those games, that i could easily see happening. If their successful enough, it may even have a positive effect on Eve too, though i have to say, the stranglehold fantasy themeparks have on MMO's does need to be loosened. As an Eve player i am really looking forward to both those games, but it won't change whether i play Eve or not image

     

    Eve will not be evolving over time - the 6-monthly expansions will not happen from now on.

     

    May I ask you to explain what you mean here?

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    almost all MMO games or MP games are P2W ,it is just trend what most players liked & game companies give to players what they like
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    This discussion is interesting but it's a moot point, like most discussions about Eve - The central, insurmountable, problem with Eve is that it's becoming obsolete.

     

    Why bother with 3 separate games (Eve Online, DUST, Valkyrie) when you will be able play a game that aims to do all 3 facets in the same game (such as Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen)?

     

    Eve becoming obsolete isn't a question of 'if' - it's a question of whether it will happen in 2015 or 2016.

     

     

    Eve is nothing if its not a game that evolves over time, but i think your misreading the situation, and while Dust may be a lost cause, and Valkyrie an unknown factor, games like Elite; Dangerous and Star Citizen are more than capable of existing side by side with Eve, i don't think its going to be a question of either/or in whether people play them, if anything it just broadens the spectrum of Sci/fi games, which is currently very sparse, with few successes and more than its fair share of failures. I don't see Eve changing in that sense, it will in all probability remain the niche game that has always been, what may happen though, is that the games that people play alongside Eve, are dropped in favour of those games, that i could easily see happening. If their successful enough, it may even have a positive effect on Eve too, though i have to say, the stranglehold fantasy themeparks have on MMO's does need to be loosened. As an Eve player i am really looking forward to both those games, but it won't change whether i play Eve or not image

     

    Eve will not be evolving over time - the 6-monthly expansions will not happen from now on.

     

    Of course people wont quit eve for a better game. They put to much cash into it to quit.

     

    It is pay to win, still no one has said it wasent. Some one starting out can never catch up to some one that has played for ever. Yes you could prolly get one skill line good enough to pvp. It is not skill based because all it takes is reading. Any one can be good at eve online, if they have the patients to learn the game. Its not like lets say BF4 where I know some one that has played 80 hours, and i wooped his butt with only 10 hours of playing. No matter how long the guy plays bf4 he will never be able to beat me, because his skills suck. totally not the case in eve, because all it is, is knowing stuff about the game. 

    If i spent 2 months playing with some one in eve, and they showed me all the ropes of the game. I dont want to hear like you cant learn the game in 2 months cause thats crap, the game isnt that advanced as people see to make it sound. Maybe some people cant learn it in 2 months.... Some people cant learn how to operate a microwave correctly with months of practice too. Any ways, if one learned all the tricks of the game, and so did another person. But person a dumped 10 grand into the game, buying a account, ISK ships, and modded all them great. Person B will never be able to beat him ever, no mater how long or how much he trys. He will never be able to Beat person A. He will never have more wealth in game, he will never have better ships, he will never be anything but a lower rate person in the game, because person b couldent afford to dump 10 grand into eve. PAY TO WIIN, now stop with all that nonsense your spiting with it being skill based and not pay to win please. 

  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 194
    Originally posted by Gardavsshade
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    Eve will not be evolving over time - the 6-monthly expansions will not happen from now on.

    May I ask you to explain what you mean here?

    He didn't get the second part of that statement from fanfest. They said that instead of 6 monthly bigger updates they want to go for 6 weekly smaller updates with overall the same size and impact.

    Also: It is quite funny when people think that Elite:Dangerous or SC are "all these games combined". I take it that those people hardly played EvE past their tutorial missions - if at all.

    Also 2: "Skill" is a term needing definition. Most people seem to share some nebulous notion of "player skill" equaling something like twitch skill. Well yeah, EvE has no twitch combat, so that notion fails of course. But "skill" as such translates into the combination of ability and  knowledge needed to perform a certain action, so if there is no twitch combar it is quite obvious that EvE affords a different skillset. Planning, calculation, coordination, metagame, tactics and strategy play a much more important role than 1:1 combat. The people who get that usually play EvE for a long time.

    The others get robbed naked  and ragequit.

    Also 3: P2W makes no sense in EvE. At all. Since everyhing is destructable and the scraps can be looted it is rather "Pay to Feed" than "Pay to Win". Whoever buys and maintains 20 accounts with suiting characters to go mining sure needs an appointment with his shrink.

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096

    The last thing I will say about this is that upon further investigation now that  I know its pay to win. Or since that pay to win has been throw around, and abused as  much as troll. Pay to have a advantage over people...... This is why scamming people in this game should be illegal, and now i understand why people get so emotional about losing their crap in this game, and brake into tears, like in that last dudes post. Considering all the money in this game, can have a dollar on it, the only thing stopping fraud charges is the fact that the ISK cant be re turned into money.

    So now that I understand this, I am sorry to say if I ever meet some one that scammed people out of their ISK that was bought with money. Yeah yeah they were stupid for losing it,, I am gonna have to spit in their general direction lol. So all i can say about this pay to have advantage game, is that it is far far far far far from the kind of game I would want to play.

    You all have fun, stealing peoples money, and telling your selves its just a game. When in fact you just took advantage of some poor fool, who prolly spent his foot money to get 750millon. Game should be banned if you ask me, its to close to a gambling whole, with no regulations or safe guards.

  • ShortyBibleShortyBible Member UncommonPosts: 409
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Even without multiboxing the game is pay to win since you can buy all the equipment in game with real cash anyway. That's EVE, that's just how it is. I guess it's widely accepted because you lose your stuff when you die, so people dont mind so much as they do with pay to win games where you get to keep all those epics you bought with real money even after death /shrug.

    No it's not p2w, I love newbs using RL money to buy expensive ships, they think they are immortal, I come in with a lowskilled alt toon in a cheap boat and I outskill em, ends with me looting their expensive boat and say "GF"in local with them emologging off and create  "eve sucks" threads on forums.

     

    People that say EVE is P2W, are the ones that really need to L2play, or move on, as the game is apparently too difficult for them.

    The highlighted part was a bit much but you are spot on with the rest. People who think EvE is P2W have either:

    1) Not played the game long

    2) Never joined a corp

    3) Don't really PvP much

     

    Regardless, EvE is what it is. The player base likes it this way, the company likes it this way and if you don't like it..... the door is ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> that way!

    Well said.

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760

    Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item.

    You can counter a duel account by having a friend with you and the more friends you have the less advantage the multi account player has.

    Every ship in eve online has weaknesses that can be exploited by another ship.

    Each item typically has a counter item.

    Eve isn't pay to win.

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item.

    You can counter a duel account by having a friend with you and the more friends you have the less advantage the multi account player has.

    Every ship in eve online has weaknesses that can be exploited by another ship.

    Each item typically has a counter item.

    Eve isn't pay to win.

    this

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by makasouleater69

    The last thing I will say about this is that upon further investigation now that  I know its pay to win. Or since that pay to win has been throw around, and abused as  much as troll. Pay to have a advantage over people...... This is why scamming people in this game should be illegal, and now i understand why people get so emotional about losing their crap in this game, and brake into tears, like in that last dudes post. Considering all the money in this game, can have a dollar on it, the only thing stopping fraud charges is the fact that the ISK cant be re turned into money.

    So now that I understand this, I am sorry to say if I ever meet some one that scammed people out of their ISK that was bought with money. Yeah yeah they were stupid for losing it,, I am gonna have to spit in their general direction lol. So all i can say about this pay to have advantage game, is that it is far far far far far from the kind of game I would want to play.

    You all have fun, stealing peoples money, and telling your selves its just a game. When in fact you just took advantage of some poor fool, who prolly spent his foot money to get 750millon. Game should be banned if you ask me, its to close to a gambling whole, with no regulations or safe guards.

    What if Eve is just a video game?  What if eve is just a video game with a specific set of rules that each person that plays the game has to abide by?  How does this post look to someone that considers eve to be a just a game and all of the items that their character aquired is just stuff in a game.

    Can you imagine someone running out onto the field during a football (soccer) game, grabbing the ball, and screaming: "If you keep kicking this ball it might get damaged and then you wont have it to play football with"  How would you respond to such a person?  It's just a game and that's just part of the game.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    People who, like the OP, try and play EVE as a standard level based grinder are of course welcome to do so, but they'll find it, as the OP did, rather hard work.

    For an alternative perspective, try reading this: http://evenews24.com/2014/05/07/suggested-read-a-capitalists-world/

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.

    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.

  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,120

    Eve combat looks bad imo.

    If it worked on portable devices I might be interested in the game a bit more.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.

    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.

    Except... Multiboxing when your mining is one thing, in PvP its a liability, a guy multiboxing 4 accounts is not as good in PvP as 4 people, less than 50% effective even, and the effective ratio falls off when more 'boxes' are added, all that will happen is that any semi competent FC will take apart the multiboxers fleet with ease. Anyone trying to equate multiboxing with P2W hasn't PvP'd in Eve, sure if its a multiboxer against a single target, they can usually win, 4 or 5 ships against 1 will usually carry the day, but if the target calls in friends, then its usually game over for the multiboxer, and expensively too. P2W does not work in Eve, as another earlier pointed out, its just pay to feed, probably followed by a ragequit image

  • CreatorzimCreatorzim Member UncommonPosts: 274
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.

    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.

    Except... Multiboxing when your mining is one thing, in PvP its a liability, a guy multiboxing 4 accounts is not as good in PvP as 4 people, less than 50% effective even, and the effective ratio falls off when more 'boxes' are added, all that will happen is that any semi competent FC will take apart the multiboxers fleet with ease. Anyone trying to equate multiboxing with P2W hasn't PvP'd in Eve, sure if its a multiboxer against a single target, they can usually win, 4 or 5 ships against 1 will usually carry the day, but if the target calls in friends, then its usually game over for the multiboxer, and expensively too. P2W does not work in Eve, as another earlier pointed out, its just pay to feed, probably followed by a ragequit image

    I have never heard that about Eve. I know people who have been playing for years and they say if you want anything to do with being competitive you need at least 5 accounts. That almost all top guilds or whatever its called in Eve use at least 5 account for the lower end people more than that if they are truly competitive.

    image

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Creatorzim
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.

    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.

    Except... Multiboxing when your mining is one thing, in PvP its a liability, a guy multiboxing 4 accounts is not as good in PvP as 4 people, less than 50% effective even, and the effective ratio falls off when more 'boxes' are added, all that will happen is that any semi competent FC will take apart the multiboxers fleet with ease. Anyone trying to equate multiboxing with P2W hasn't PvP'd in Eve, sure if its a multiboxer against a single target, they can usually win, 4 or 5 ships against 1 will usually carry the day, but if the target calls in friends, then its usually game over for the multiboxer, and expensively too. P2W does not work in Eve, as another earlier pointed out, its just pay to feed, probably followed by a ragequit image

    I have never heard that about Eve. I know people who have been playing for years and they say if you want anything to do with being competitive you need at least 5 accounts. That almost all top guilds or whatever its called in Eve use at least 5 account for the lower end people more than that if they are truly competitive.

    cyno alts, and mining, and spare toons for when your main is wardecc'd and you can't do anything productive.

    If you use cap ships, you need cyno's to move them around, when i was flying a carrier, handy thing to move your expensive stuff around null sec in a hurry. then you need at least one cyno alt,  preferably 2. But mostly particularly in PVP, you only use a single account, PVP is just too demanding to multibox all that well, too slow to react mostly.

     Another use for 'alts' is recon, if you can station a cloaky recon ship out of system, then you can hopefully get advance warning of enemy fleets approaching. or potential targets. The alternative is to have numerous players doing those things, that just one or two could handle. A single player handling a couple of accounts flying covert ships can be a huge boon to a small fleet, they may not get involved in the fighting directly, but being able to scout surrounding systems can help in avoiding any nasty surprises, and help locate targets of interest image

    The other use for alts is just as 'holding' alts. You get 3 Characters per account, so if you need more and you are not sure if you can really trust your 'friends' then sometimes you need to open another account, just to be on the safe side. Paranoia is a central factor in Eve, if nothing else image

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    This discussion is interesting but it's a moot point, like most discussions about Eve - The central, insurmountable, problem with Eve is that it's becoming obsolete.

     

    Why bother with 3 separate games (Eve Online, DUST, Valkyrie) when you will be able play a game that aims to do all 3 facets in the same game (such as Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen)?

     

    Eve becoming obsolete isn't a question of 'if' - it's a question of whether it will happen in 2015 or 2016.

     

     

    Eve is nothing if its not a game that evolves over time, but i think your misreading the situation, and while Dust may be a lost cause, and Valkyrie an unknown factor, games like Elite; Dangerous and Star Citizen are more than capable of existing side by side with Eve, i don't think its going to be a question of either/or in whether people play them, if anything it just broadens the spectrum of Sci/fi games, which is currently very sparse, with few successes and more than its fair share of failures. I don't see Eve changing in that sense, it will in all probability remain the niche game that has always been, what may happen though, is that the games that people play alongside Eve, are dropped in favour of those games, that i could easily see happening. If their successful enough, it may even have a positive effect on Eve too, though i have to say, the stranglehold fantasy themeparks have on MMO's does need to be loosened. As an Eve player i am really looking forward to both those games, but it won't change whether i play Eve or not image

     

    Eve will not be evolving over time - the 6-monthly expansions will not happen from now on.

     

     

    You don't think that the 6-weekly release windows will allow change?

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • NicoliNicoli Member Posts: 1,312
    Originally posted by Creatorzim

    I have never heard that about Eve. I know people who have been playing for years and they say if you want anything to do with being competitive you need at least 5 accounts. That almost all top guilds or whatever its called in Eve use at least 5 account for the lower end people more than that if they are truly competitive.

    I'll Second Phry, extra accounts in are only used in purely utilitarian disposable roles in PVP, Mining is the only group activity that you will see people multi-boxing accounts doing the primary operation, because it is frankly a very low input activity. That said grab some friends and joking around on Voice chat while mining away is a hell of a lot more fun then solo multi-boxing.


  • Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.
    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.


    That is a BS definition of P2W Hazelle and you know it.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    This discussion is interesting but it's a moot point, like most discussions about Eve - The central, insurmountable, problem with Eve is that it's becoming obsolete.

     

    Why bother with 3 separate games (Eve Online, DUST, Valkyrie) when you will be able play a game that aims to do all 3 facets in the same game (such as Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen)?

     

    Eve becoming obsolete isn't a question of 'if' - it's a question of whether it will happen in 2015 or 2016.

     

     

    Eve is nothing if its not a game that evolves over time, but i think your misreading the situation, and while Dust may be a lost cause, and Valkyrie an unknown factor, games like Elite; Dangerous and Star Citizen are more than capable of existing side by side with Eve, i don't think its going to be a question of either/or in whether people play them, if anything it just broadens the spectrum of Sci/fi games, which is currently very sparse, with few successes and more than its fair share of failures. I don't see Eve changing in that sense, it will in all probability remain the niche game that has always been, what may happen though, is that the games that people play alongside Eve, are dropped in favour of those games, that i could easily see happening. If their successful enough, it may even have a positive effect on Eve too, though i have to say, the stranglehold fantasy themeparks have on MMO's does need to be loosened. As an Eve player i am really looking forward to both those games, but it won't change whether i play Eve or not image

     

    Eve will not be evolving over time - the 6-monthly expansions will not happen from now on.

     

     

    You don't think that the 6-weekly release windows will allow change?

    Just finished watching some of the youtube 2014 fanfest vids..... and was totally blown away by it, about the 6 monthly thing, i think 6 weeks is better, if anything it will help the game evolve better and faster than before. Which takes me to LEGION.. omfg... they finally gone and did it.. well hopefully.. and Valkyrie... with Starbuck.. yup, thats going to be huge!

    Here is to Eve's second decade.. and OMG its going to be totally awesome image

  • qoonaqoona Member UncommonPosts: 9
    Pay2win, means that for real money, you cant buy stuff that is much better than stuf you can buyfor ingame cash. What eve does is different. First. I have job, that takers about 12h of my daily time. I need to sleep, eat , cook, take care of dog, and what left i can spend on little gaming. So why should i waste it for rating or other stuff? i buy plex, sell plex, and buy me moar pew pew awesomeboats (manily drakes  <_<) and someone who dont have job, and heve alot of time to rat and mine and other shit, can buy my plex, and keep playing without spending money. I have fun. he have fun. We both have someone to shoot at. Profit.
  • dorugudorugu Member UncommonPosts: 184

    sorry op yu fail:

    sure yu can buy a character tht can use any ship n a brand new shiny ship w evrything on it but do yu kno ow to use it what skills to use and when?

    n bsides tht all mmos r pay 2 win thn accordin to yur definition cause yu can buy high lvld/skilled characters w the latest stuff in all of em for real money :)

    n multi boxing can b done in any mmo as well just use several accounts but problem is how to react fast enuff if yu do

  • NicoliNicoli Member Posts: 1,312
    Originally posted by Axxar

     


    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol hazelle eve is a great game but it is also pay to win (but it's a deliberate part of the game , just unfair for new players). As for your example well sure you can counter a fight with a 20 multiboxer by bringing friends ( because that's what a fair fight is right?). But that multiboxer can equally bring friends. Bottom line veterans can fund more accounts with isk than new players and do so because multiboxing is a recognised strategy. That's why eve is screwed when their pve player base collapses when they move to elite etc, the game is crippled by its dependancy on a small bet base.
    "Pay to win is when you are able to buy an item advantage that can't be countered without also using a pay to win item."

     

    A second account controlled by one player is not pay to win because it's a second account which can be countered by a second player and not just another second account and so on and so on +1 +1 +1 until you think the odds are in your favor and then risk your ship(s) in combat after all Eve online is an open world pvp full loot MMORPG so fair fights only really happen during the new eden open.


    That is a BS definition of P2W Hazelle and you know it.

     

    Actually that is pretty much exactly the definition of pay2win. The ability to purchase things that gives you a significant advantage over to those who don't pay. Things like gold ammo, gold items. Stat boosts, etc... EVE has none of these things. Everything is available to everyone, PLEX only allows you to get the help of another player without the need to have the personal charisma to have them help you out of liking you.

  • uplink4242uplink4242 Member UncommonPosts: 257

    I'm going to make this really short because you obviously haven't bothered playing before drawing conclusions:

    it's not. Go buy an account and plex and see where that leads you.

    Go read about a popular sc2 player that started playing eve this year, bought a 90m SP character and got virtually unlimited ISK from fan donations, and see what he has done in game - a laughing matter that does absolutely nothing but suicide his fleets over and over.

     

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