Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
Name 1 major mmo in today's market that doesn't require you to run hundreds if not thousands of quests to progress. Please.
Point is in other mmo's you can get a acceptable amount of xp from dungeons at least, in teso u simply can not.
In WoW, I managed to level my mage from level 75 to 85 just training vanity pets and doing PvP pet battles ! I didn't even intend to level!
I'm just illustrating that other games offer more ways of leveling.
Exactly thats the problem forcing people to lvl only from questing, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I've never played ESO, but I have had a lot of experience playing WoW.
I'm surprised that ESO is boring, because I remember WoW from 2004 - 2008 to be totally addictive.
I wonder what sort of mojo WoW had that ESO is missing?
A lot of us do find it pretty compelling, but it's story-driven. So the immersion is reading all of the lore in the books, picking up the little non-quest notes, hearing conversations; the voice acting in the quests, and so on. There are hundreds of hours of this in the game. I think that the issue is that people simply want to get to the endgame, and for them all of this is just overhead getting in the way of their goal. If you just care about getting to the goal post, having an option to run around in circles for 40 hours doing the same thing beats 80 hours of voice-acted storyline.
At level 32 I was killing VR1/2 players and escaping from their half dozen friends immediately afterward. If someone is one-shotting you at VR5, and you're VR1, you're doing something really, really wrong.
What is a problem, however, and why I quit, is that hundreds, if not thousands of people currently have full sets of Legendary gear thanks to the duping. For some stupid reason, Zeni didn't delete all the items introduced by the bug, they merely 'banned the worst offenders.' It will take years before PvP is balanced thanks to that.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
no most uf us didnt know eso will be a game that forced you to do all the quests there are. And some of us dont like it, havent really complained that much if at all because leveling experience is quite awesome and i think just that is worth it but this issue is rather serious and ignoring it wont make it go away.
And how would allowing us to actually NOT finish every quest there is, transform teso into generic mmo?
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
people cry due to hitting endgame to fast. people cry due to leveling to max takes to long.
Enjoy to road to max level if you dont eso isnt the game for you... Better ask that money back as all those millions and millions of players who already quit and are going to quit and the people why buy the game in 6 months who quit to !!! Oh wait a minute...
I agree with you. It took me about 2 years to get my first max level WoW character. I am definitely the type that likes to take my time and enjoy the content. I saw so many people hit max level within a week of SWTOR launch and they cried because they ran out of things to do. People need to slow down and not play ahead of content updates.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Well then whats the problem? because all he is asking is for more options in leveling. So if that is not what generic is than you shouldn't have nay problems..am i right?
A good MMO is one which doesn't restrict the way players want to progress. Even games like EQ2 and WOW which are also heavily PVE centric have alternate ways to level. That doesn't make them generic..that just simply means 'they give more choice to players'.
Originally posted by evilized Originally posted by spizz Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
Name 1 major mmo in today's market that doesn't require you to run hundreds if not thousands of quests to progress. Please.
You can level up 1-50(V1) in Eso without doing a single quest and that's the most efficient way aswell.
Let's remain realistic please. It only becomes more efficient after 28-30 when you have enough skill points to get the abilities you need for an aoe build. Guess where you get a good majority of these skill points? Quests. You then, after hitting 50 via grinding, have to go back and do all of the skill point quests so your character isn't gimped; again, more required questing.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
I hate to break it to you, but TESO is an MMORPG first and foremost, and as such it should have the same basic gameplay elements as other MMOs.
Right now it is literally JUST quest grinding. That is ALL THERE IS TO DO. It's not unreasonable for some people to want more options.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
I hate to break it to you, but TESO is an MMORPG first and foremost, and as such it should have the same basic gameplay elements as other MMOs.
Right now it is literally JUST quest grinding. That is ALL THERE IS TO DO. It's not unreasonable for some people to want more options.
There are so many mmos out there where you have nothing else to do except grinding mobs or doing just copy & paste quests.
Around 90% of the mmos on the market are just terrybad and you come here and demands how an mmo has to look like.
Cant you suddenly grind mobs after lvl 50 if you are in such a need of getting XP without quests.
What else do you want ? In all mmos i played you advance with killing mobs and/or doing quests. Thats the main source for character progression.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
I hate to break it to you, but TESO is an MMORPG first and foremost, and as such it should have the same basic gameplay elements as other MMOs.
Right now it is literally JUST quest grinding. That is ALL THERE IS TO DO. It's not unreasonable for some people to want more options.
There are so many mmos out there where you have nothing else to do except grinding mobs or doing just copy & paste quests.
Around 90% of the mmos on the market are just terrybad and you come here and demands how an mmo has to look like.
Cant you suddenly grind mobs after lvl 50 if you are in such a need of getting XP without quests.
What else do you want ?
There are certain standards in the MMO genre. For example, if an FPS came out without any weapons or means of regaining health, you'd say it was a poorly made FPS, regardless how good the story might be. You wouldn't go around telling people it's the "best FPS because it does things differently".
The same goes for MMOs. There are certain standards that the genre has, and if ZOS tries to change those standards by removing them, they're going to irritate players and drive them away. MMO players want dungeons that give rewards, they want meaningful PVP, they want as many avenues as possible to gain XP, and they want endgame that is specific to level-cap players. It doesn't matter what you personally feel ESO should be because it's "immersive and RP-heavy", the simple fact is that currently it's lacking in a lot of CORE MMORPG elements, and it just so happens that the game was designed as an MMORPG and not a single-player or LAN RPG.
Do you even play this game? They nerfed mob XP, removed dungeon XP almost entirely, removed PVP XP almost entirely, removed gaining XP through crafting altogether, and left players with nothing to do but questing.
I have no idea why you're defending a design decision that limits players so much.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
I don't think you understand what 'generic' means if you thinki giving more options to players in leveling means it will become generic.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
I hate to break it to you, but TESO is an MMORPG first and foremost, and as such it should have the same basic gameplay elements as other MMOs.
Right now it is literally JUST quest grinding. That is ALL THERE IS TO DO. It's not unreasonable for some people to want more options.
There are so many mmos out there where you have nothing else to do except grinding mobs or doing just copy & paste quests.
Around 90% of the mmos on the market are just terrybad and you come here and demands how an mmo has to look like.
Cant you suddenly grind mobs after lvl 50 if you are in such a need of getting XP without quests.
What else do you want ?
There are certain standards in the MMO genre. For example, if an FPS came out without any weapons or means of regaining health, you'd say it was a poorly made FPS, regardless how good the story might be. You wouldn't go around telling people it's the "best FPS because it does things differently".
The same goes for MMOs. There are certain standards that the genre has, and if ZOS tries to change those standards by removing them, they're going to irritate players and drive them away. MMO players want dungeons that give rewards, they want meaningful PVP, they want as many avenues as possible to gain XP, and they want endgame that is specific to level-cap players. It doesn't matter what you personally feel ESO should be because it's "immersive and RP-heavy", the simple fact is that currently it's lacking in a lot of CORE MMORPG elements, and it just so happens that the game was designed as an MMORPG and not a single-player or LAN RPG.
Do you even play this game? They nerfed mob XP, removed dungeon XP almost entirely, removed PVP XP almost entirely, removed gaining XP through crafting altogether, and left players with nothing to do but questing.
I have no idea why you're defending a design decision that limits players so much.
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It is what it is, there is a lot to do other than leveling, if that's all you want to do then yes you have to partake in activities that give exp, people did grind to vr10 and some still do. There are places you can go if you want to grind mobs to max level and it is more efficient than questing.
I won't say where those places are but it can easily be found.
More options isn't always good, the ones we have now keep a good pace to leveling while giving a good rpg experience for those interested in the RPG in mmorpg.
When you play chess do you ask for more options to move you pieces just so you can reach the end of the game faster ?
There are games that don't have any quests, just plain grinding. I don't go play these games and ask for quests to help me level. ES games have always been about adventures, and it is a pretty big one in ESO, much bigger than any other ES game.
You have some barriers that are necessary for the translation to an mmo but it still feels like an ES game, given you take the time to listen at the plots and you aren't playing with the sole purpose of reaching top level.
Who ever played an ES game just to reach the max level anyway ?? People that enjoy those games likes story and lore and most of them likes ESO. I am not talking about just skyrim's fan, I am talking about ES fans.
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It isnt totally true. Mob XP is incredibly high in fact. You can get 180-200k XP per hour around level 40 by AoE-grinding mobs alone (or even more if duo) at certain spots, which is about 4 times faster than questing at 40-50k per hour.
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It is what it is, there is a lot to do other than leveling, if that's all you want to do then yes you have to partake in activities that give exp, people did grind to vr10 and some still do. There are places you can go if you want to grind mobs to max level and it is more efficient than questing.
I won't say where those places are but it can easily be found.
More options isn't always good, the ones we have now keep a good pace to leveling while giving a good rpg experience for those interested in the RPG in mmorpg.
When you play chess do you ask for more options to move you pieces just so you can reach the end of the game faster ?
There are games that don't have any quests, just plain grinding. I don't go play these games and ask for quests to help me level. ES games have always been about adventures, and it is a pretty big one in ESO, much bigger than any other ES game.
You have some barriers that are necessary for the translation to an mmo but it still feels like an ES game, given you take the time to listen at the plots and you aren't playing with the sole purpose of reaching top level.
Who ever played an ES game just to reach the max level anyway ?? People that enjoy those games likes story and lore and most of them likes ESO. I am not talking about just skyrim's fan, I am talking about ES fans.
First off: games that are pure mob grinding are what we like to call "niche" games. They satisfy a certain portion of the populace and are usually based on an IP exclusive to that particular MMO. Elder Scrolls is hardly a niche brand, and I would know having been there since Daggerfall. I've watched it grow from a hardcore CRPG to the semi-casual and wonderful game that was Skyrim, and now into MMO form.
It's no longer a niche game. It's got five canon titles, two extra titles (redguard and battlespire), and now a full-fledged 200 million-dollar MMO. It's going to launch on three systems, be the first MMORPG on the Xbone and be the second MMORPG to launch on the PS4. It has to bow to popular opionion because IT IS A POPULAR FRANCHISE. If everyone who loves the Elder Scrolls plays it, and most find it to be lacking in anything other than pure quest grinding, then it hasn't lived up to it's predecessors. I'm not arguing the fact that it doesn't feel like an ES game, because as far as quests go it most certainly does and I couldn't be happier with that. What is it lacking in, severely, unlike other ES games is VARIETY OF THINGS TO DO.
Second, your analogy to chess is dumb. I can't phrase that any differently, I'm sorry. Chess is not a 100,000-player game, firstly; It's also not a grouping game, nor is it a PvE game. In fact, the only thing that chess and MMOs have in common would be the fact that they both require some amount of strategy, but that's about it. If you're complaining about chess not having enough options, then you haven't understood the point of the game. If you say that ESO is perfect the way it is and anyone averse to 300+ hours of post-level 50 quest grinding is wrong, then I don't think you understand MMOs very well.
Third, why do people automatically assume that because I'm 50 I've "rushed through the game"? I've enjoyed every minute of it, I've immersed myself in the quests, I've done ALL side dungeons and side quests, world bosses, and anchors. I've just played for more than an hour every night. It's only slow at the beginning and if you don't know how to organize your questing.
Fourth, ES games typically have what I like to call "parallel levelling", meaning that the world scales to your level accordingly. If you're level 25 in Skyrim, then mobs and dungeons are also 25. Everything fits together. The problem is that ESO is an MMO, and as such has artificial level barriers (as well it should, otherwise it would be even more pointless to level up than in GW2). Once you've completed a quest, you gain XP, which pushes you to the next level after a while. How are you not understanding the basic principle of MMO levelling? You can't stay level 1 forever and do the entire world quest chain.
Originally posted by DEATHRAMENT The problem with it is simple, i for one don't mind that it takes a long time to go from vr1-vr10. The problem is the only way to do it really is to quest. In my mmo's i like to lvl through a variety of ways or atleast one other way such as dungeon runs. We should not have to quest our way to the top, its stupid and not fun for a great many players and will likely hurt the game in the long run. I love this game and will continue to play but for the love of god don't make me do 2000 quests.
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
Name 1 major mmo in today's market that doesn't require you to run hundreds if not thousands of quests to progress. Please.
You can level up 1-50(V1) in Eso without doing a single quest and that's the most efficient way aswell.
I think that's an exception. Somebody figured out "where to go" and "what to kill" in order to do that.
The game isn't designed around actually doing that. If it were I suspect more people would be doing 1 - 50 without doing a single quest.
which then brings me back to the "real crux of the issue" which is that the people who want to minimize their quests were probably not the target audience to begin with.
These people are looking to get to "end game" so they can do "end game". That type of game play/style is "about something else".
Now, if what one poster said about there not being enough quests is true then that would be a perfectly acceptable complaint. But is that really true or is it that players just aren't finding them?
Don't get me wrong, I like killing mobs/grinding but as I stated earlier, this is a quest game, it's designed to be a quest game and one with a longer leveling curve.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It isnt totally true. Mob XP is incredibly high in fact. You can get 180-200k XP per hour around level 40 by AoE-grinding mobs alone (or even more if duo) at certain spots, which is about 4 times faster than questing at 40-50k per hour.
I think that's an exception. Somebody figured out "where to go" and "what to kill" in order to do that.
The game isn't designed around actually doing that. If it were I suspect more people would be doing 1 - 50 without doing a single quest.
which then brings me back to the "real crux of the issue" which is that the people who want to minimize their quests were probably not the target audience to begin with.
These people are looking to get to "end game" so they can do "end game". That type of game play/style is "about something else".
Now, if what one poster said about there not being enough quests is true then that would be a perfectly acceptable complaint. But is that really true or is it that players just aren't finding them?
Don't get me wrong, I like killing mobs/grinding but as I stated earlier, this is a quest game, it's designed to be a quest game and one with a longer leveling curve.
The problem with this idea is that it potentially alienates an incredible amount of people. And, in the end, it appears that it is alienating a huge amount of people. When you compare the enormous budget with the amount of people that want to quest 450 hours to be competitive, I'm not sure that it was a good idea.
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It is what it is, there is a lot to do other than leveling, if that's all you want to do then yes you have to partake in activities that give exp, people did grind to vr10 and some still do. There are places you can go if you want to grind mobs to max level and it is more efficient than questing.
I won't say where those places are but it can easily be found.
More options isn't always good, the ones we have now keep a good pace to leveling while giving a good rpg experience for those interested in the RPG in mmorpg.
When you play chess do you ask for more options to move you pieces just so you can reach the end of the game faster ?
There are games that don't have any quests, just plain grinding. I don't go play these games and ask for quests to help me level. ES games have always been about adventures, and it is a pretty big one in ESO, much bigger than any other ES game.
You have some barriers that are necessary for the translation to an mmo but it still feels like an ES game, given you take the time to listen at the plots and you aren't playing with the sole purpose of reaching top level.
Who ever played an ES game just to reach the max level anyway ?? People that enjoy those games likes story and lore and most of them likes ESO. I am not talking about just skyrim's fan, I am talking about ES fans.
First off: games that are pure mob grinding are what we like to call "niche" games. They satisfy a certain portion of the populace and are usually based on an IP exclusive to that particular MMO. Elder Scrolls is hardly a niche brand, and I would know having been there since Daggerfall. I've watched it grow from a hardcore CRPG to the semi-casual and wonderful game that was Skyrim, and now into MMO form.
It's no longer a niche game. It's got five canon titles, two extra titles (redguard and battlespire), and now a full-fledged 200 million-dollar MMO. It's going to launch on three systems, be the first MMORPG on the Xbone and be the second MMORPG to launch on the PS4. It has to bow to popular opionion because IT IS A POPULAR FRANCHISE. If everyone who loves the Elder Scrolls plays it, and most find it to be lacking in anything other than pure quest grinding, then it hasn't lived up to it's predecessors. I'm not arguing the fact that it doesn't feel like an ES game, because as far as quests go it most certainly does and I couldn't be happier with that. What is it lacking in, severely, unlike other ES games is VARIETY OF THINGS TO DO.
Second, your analogy to chess is dumb. I can't phrase that any differently, I'm sorry. Chess is not a 100,000-player game, firstly; It's also not a grouping game, nor is it a PvE game. In fact, the only thing that chess and MMOs have in common would be the fact that they both require some amount of strategy, but that's about it. If you're complaining about chess not having enough options, then you haven't understood the point of the game. If you say that ESO is perfect the way it is and anyone averse to 300+ hours of post-level 50 quest grinding is wrong, then I don't think you understand MMOs very well.
Third, why do people automatically assume that because I'm 50 I've "rushed through the game"? I've enjoyed every minute of it, I've immersed myself in the quests, I've done ALL side dungeons and side quests, world bosses, and anchors. I've just played for more than an hour every night. It's only slow at the beginning and if you don't know how to organize your questing.
Fourth, ES games typically have what I like to call "parallel levelling", meaning that the world scales to your level accordingly. If you're level 25 in Skyrim, then mobs and dungeons are also 25. Everything fits together. The problem is that ESO is an MMO, and as such has artificial level barriers (as well it should, otherwise it would be even more pointless to level up than in GW2). Once you've completed a quest, you gain XP, which pushes you to the next level after a while. How are you not understanding the basic principle of MMO levelling? You can't stay level 1 forever and do the entire world quest chain.
I would argue that ES is still a niche genre. It still have a very narrow player type. Skyrim was more mainstream and the more diluted of the serie, prolly the one I loved the least as well. You talk about variety of things to do, what is it exactly that is missing here ? You can explore, there is a huge amount of easter eggs in this game, you can go on solo quest, you can quest with others, you can run the fast public solo or group dungeons, or the slightly bigger group dungeon. You can grind mobs all day if that's what you want, either for mats to craft or just cause you have a urge to kill.
What you are complaining about is not a lack of diversity, you complaining that the easiest way to reach max level is thru quests. Which isn't actually true.
My analogy to chess was simply to show that you cannot take a game and say that it is missing options just because you feel like it does. Because others games have different gameplay doesn't mean that this one should have em too .
I never assumed you rushed anything, you are the ones complaining that the grind in unacceptable. If you enjoy the journey why do you care if it takes 1 week or 12. If the game is fun you should actually be happy that it is taking longer. BTW I am VR6 and I do every quests and listen at all the dialogues. I know of faster ways to level thru grinding mobs, but I don't do it because I don't care about reaching max leveling.
My main goal is not VR10, it is to actually see everything there is to see.
As for your fourth point, I wasn't complaining about those barriers I think they did a good job translating the open world of other ES game to the mmo world.
So again, when you played morrowind or oblivion, what were you doing ? what were you enjoying about the game that you cannot do in this one ?
How much content is actually in this game because it sounds like there isn't a lot so they added some mindless grind to make it look like the game has actual worthy content.
I think that's an exception. Somebody figured out "where to go" and "what to kill" in order to do that.
The game isn't designed around actually doing that. If it were I suspect more people would be doing 1 - 50 without doing a single quest.
which then brings me back to the "real crux of the issue" which is that the people who want to minimize their quests were probably not the target audience to begin with.
These people are looking to get to "end game" so they can do "end game". That type of game play/style is "about something else".
Now, if what one poster said about there not being enough quests is true then that would be a perfectly acceptable complaint. But is that really true or is it that players just aren't finding them?
Don't get me wrong, I like killing mobs/grinding but as I stated earlier, this is a quest game, it's designed to be a quest game and one with a longer leveling curve.
The problem with this idea is that it potentially alienates an incredible amount of people. And, in the end, it appears that it is alienating a huge amount of people. When you compare the enormous budget with the amount of people that want to quest 450 hours to be competitive, I'm not sure that it was a good idea.
And I think that's where another issue lies.
You have all these people who are really here for the pvp. Except, Zenimax made it so that leveling through pvp is slower essentially sending the message that "this isn't a pvp game".
Becuase it isn't.
But people showed up for the pvp and they are discovering it isn't a pvp game.
It's not really about alienating people, it's about who the target audience is. People can show up and say they want to do x all they want but I suspect they weren't the target audience.
The question is, is Zenimax clear on their target audience and are they certain this target audience is enough to sustain the game?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Exactly thats the problem forcing people to lvl only from questing, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Generic gets translated as "typical or general, universal"
I understand that some people might not like story questing.
But you still can grind your way to lvl 50, grab a destruction stave and do the missing mob grind if you dont like questing.
A lot of us do find it pretty compelling, but it's story-driven. So the immersion is reading all of the lore in the books, picking up the little non-quest notes, hearing conversations; the voice acting in the quests, and so on. There are hundreds of hours of this in the game. I think that the issue is that people simply want to get to the endgame, and for them all of this is just overhead getting in the way of their goal. If you just care about getting to the goal post, having an option to run around in circles for 40 hours doing the same thing beats 80 hours of voice-acted storyline.
At level 32 I was killing VR1/2 players and escaping from their half dozen friends immediately afterward. If someone is one-shotting you at VR5, and you're VR1, you're doing something really, really wrong.
What is a problem, however, and why I quit, is that hundreds, if not thousands of people currently have full sets of Legendary gear thanks to the duping. For some stupid reason, Zeni didn't delete all the items introduced by the bug, they merely 'banned the worst offenders.' It will take years before PvP is balanced thanks to that.
no most uf us didnt know eso will be a game that forced you to do all the quests there are. And some of us dont like it, havent really complained that much if at all because leveling experience is quite awesome and i think just that is worth it but this issue is rather serious and ignoring it wont make it go away.
And how would allowing us to actually NOT finish every quest there is, transform teso into generic mmo?
I never thought that i would read on a gaming forums that 'more options / features = generic'. But i guess there is first time for everything eh?
Also topic is about leveling of veteran ranks and not 1 to 50.
Iam not saying generic = just more options.
I said that it seems some want to change the game into a more generic mmo, changing the game into a gameplay style which reminds on other mmorpgs.
"But in other mmos i could do this or that..."
Isnt it good that we have an mmo which goes a different way. So many people always asked for some new ideas, tired of the same old.
Actually ESO is the opposite to Asian Grinder.
In such games you are foced to kill mobs after mob to advance, there is no other option only a tiny amount of boring and simple quests " go kill 999 rats".
I agree with you. It took me about 2 years to get my first max level WoW character. I am definitely the type that likes to take my time and enjoy the content. I saw so many people hit max level within a week of SWTOR launch and they cried because they ran out of things to do. People need to slow down and not play ahead of content updates.
Well then whats the problem? because all he is asking is for more options in leveling. So if that is not what generic is than you shouldn't have nay problems..am i right?
A good MMO is one which doesn't restrict the way players want to progress. Even games like EQ2 and WOW which are also heavily PVE centric have alternate ways to level. That doesn't make them generic..that just simply means 'they give more choice to players'.
More choices good..less choices..bad!!!
I dont see a problem here. Everyone knows that ESO is a game based on story questing.
There are thousands of other games out there who offer a different gameplay style.
I have the feeling some people want to change ESO into a generic mmo, adjusting it to the gameplay style like most mmos on the market.
Name 1 major mmo in today's market that doesn't require you to run hundreds if not thousands of quests to progress. Please.You can level up 1-50(V1) in Eso without doing a single quest and that's the most efficient way aswell.
Let's remain realistic please. It only becomes more efficient after 28-30 when you have enough skill points to get the abilities you need for an aoe build. Guess where you get a good majority of these skill points? Quests. You then, after hitting 50 via grinding, have to go back and do all of the skill point quests so your character isn't gimped; again, more required questing.I hate to break it to you, but TESO is an MMORPG first and foremost, and as such it should have the same basic gameplay elements as other MMOs.
Right now it is literally JUST quest grinding. That is ALL THERE IS TO DO. It's not unreasonable for some people to want more options.
There are so many mmos out there where you have nothing else to do except grinding mobs or doing just copy & paste quests.
Around 90% of the mmos on the market are just terrybad and you come here and demands how an mmo has to look like.
Cant you suddenly grind mobs after lvl 50 if you are in such a need of getting XP without quests.
What else do you want ? In all mmos i played you advance with killing mobs and/or doing quests. Thats the main source for character progression.
There are certain standards in the MMO genre. For example, if an FPS came out without any weapons or means of regaining health, you'd say it was a poorly made FPS, regardless how good the story might be. You wouldn't go around telling people it's the "best FPS because it does things differently".
The same goes for MMOs. There are certain standards that the genre has, and if ZOS tries to change those standards by removing them, they're going to irritate players and drive them away. MMO players want dungeons that give rewards, they want meaningful PVP, they want as many avenues as possible to gain XP, and they want endgame that is specific to level-cap players. It doesn't matter what you personally feel ESO should be because it's "immersive and RP-heavy", the simple fact is that currently it's lacking in a lot of CORE MMORPG elements, and it just so happens that the game was designed as an MMORPG and not a single-player or LAN RPG.
Do you even play this game? They nerfed mob XP, removed dungeon XP almost entirely, removed PVP XP almost entirely, removed gaining XP through crafting altogether, and left players with nothing to do but questing.
I have no idea why you're defending a design decision that limits players so much.
How can anyone seriously argue this post?
Crazy isn't it? people are against more options and features in game. Who could have imagined that..lol.
It is what it is, there is a lot to do other than leveling, if that's all you want to do then yes you have to partake in activities that give exp, people did grind to vr10 and some still do. There are places you can go if you want to grind mobs to max level and it is more efficient than questing.
I won't say where those places are but it can easily be found.
More options isn't always good, the ones we have now keep a good pace to leveling while giving a good rpg experience for those interested in the RPG in mmorpg.
When you play chess do you ask for more options to move you pieces just so you can reach the end of the game faster ?
There are games that don't have any quests, just plain grinding. I don't go play these games and ask for quests to help me level. ES games have always been about adventures, and it is a pretty big one in ESO, much bigger than any other ES game.
You have some barriers that are necessary for the translation to an mmo but it still feels like an ES game, given you take the time to listen at the plots and you aren't playing with the sole purpose of reaching top level.
Who ever played an ES game just to reach the max level anyway ?? People that enjoy those games likes story and lore and most of them likes ESO. I am not talking about just skyrim's fan, I am talking about ES fans.
It isnt totally true. Mob XP is incredibly high in fact. You can get 180-200k XP per hour around level 40 by AoE-grinding mobs alone (or even more if duo) at certain spots, which is about 4 times faster than questing at 40-50k per hour.
REALITY CHECK
First off: games that are pure mob grinding are what we like to call "niche" games. They satisfy a certain portion of the populace and are usually based on an IP exclusive to that particular MMO. Elder Scrolls is hardly a niche brand, and I would know having been there since Daggerfall. I've watched it grow from a hardcore CRPG to the semi-casual and wonderful game that was Skyrim, and now into MMO form.
It's no longer a niche game. It's got five canon titles, two extra titles (redguard and battlespire), and now a full-fledged 200 million-dollar MMO. It's going to launch on three systems, be the first MMORPG on the Xbone and be the second MMORPG to launch on the PS4. It has to bow to popular opionion because IT IS A POPULAR FRANCHISE. If everyone who loves the Elder Scrolls plays it, and most find it to be lacking in anything other than pure quest grinding, then it hasn't lived up to it's predecessors. I'm not arguing the fact that it doesn't feel like an ES game, because as far as quests go it most certainly does and I couldn't be happier with that. What is it lacking in, severely, unlike other ES games is VARIETY OF THINGS TO DO.
Second, your analogy to chess is dumb. I can't phrase that any differently, I'm sorry. Chess is not a 100,000-player game, firstly; It's also not a grouping game, nor is it a PvE game. In fact, the only thing that chess and MMOs have in common would be the fact that they both require some amount of strategy, but that's about it. If you're complaining about chess not having enough options, then you haven't understood the point of the game. If you say that ESO is perfect the way it is and anyone averse to 300+ hours of post-level 50 quest grinding is wrong, then I don't think you understand MMOs very well.
Third, why do people automatically assume that because I'm 50 I've "rushed through the game"? I've enjoyed every minute of it, I've immersed myself in the quests, I've done ALL side dungeons and side quests, world bosses, and anchors. I've just played for more than an hour every night. It's only slow at the beginning and if you don't know how to organize your questing.
Fourth, ES games typically have what I like to call "parallel levelling", meaning that the world scales to your level accordingly. If you're level 25 in Skyrim, then mobs and dungeons are also 25. Everything fits together. The problem is that ESO is an MMO, and as such has artificial level barriers (as well it should, otherwise it would be even more pointless to level up than in GW2). Once you've completed a quest, you gain XP, which pushes you to the next level after a while. How are you not understanding the basic principle of MMO levelling? You can't stay level 1 forever and do the entire world quest chain.
I think that's an exception. Somebody figured out "where to go" and "what to kill" in order to do that.
The game isn't designed around actually doing that. If it were I suspect more people would be doing 1 - 50 without doing a single quest.
which then brings me back to the "real crux of the issue" which is that the people who want to minimize their quests were probably not the target audience to begin with.
These people are looking to get to "end game" so they can do "end game". That type of game play/style is "about something else".
Now, if what one poster said about there not being enough quests is true then that would be a perfectly acceptable complaint. But is that really true or is it that players just aren't finding them?
Don't get me wrong, I like killing mobs/grinding but as I stated earlier, this is a quest game, it's designed to be a quest game and one with a longer leveling curve.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pre-50 is COMPLETELY different to Post-50.
The problem with this idea is that it potentially alienates an incredible amount of people. And, in the end, it appears that it is alienating a huge amount of people. When you compare the enormous budget with the amount of people that want to quest 450 hours to be competitive, I'm not sure that it was a good idea.
I would argue that ES is still a niche genre. It still have a very narrow player type. Skyrim was more mainstream and the more diluted of the serie, prolly the one I loved the least as well. You talk about variety of things to do, what is it exactly that is missing here ? You can explore, there is a huge amount of easter eggs in this game, you can go on solo quest, you can quest with others, you can run the fast public solo or group dungeons, or the slightly bigger group dungeon. You can grind mobs all day if that's what you want, either for mats to craft or just cause you have a urge to kill.
What you are complaining about is not a lack of diversity, you complaining that the easiest way to reach max level is thru quests. Which isn't actually true.
My analogy to chess was simply to show that you cannot take a game and say that it is missing options just because you feel like it does. Because others games have different gameplay doesn't mean that this one should have em too .
I never assumed you rushed anything, you are the ones complaining that the grind in unacceptable. If you enjoy the journey why do you care if it takes 1 week or 12. If the game is fun you should actually be happy that it is taking longer. BTW I am VR6 and I do every quests and listen at all the dialogues. I know of faster ways to level thru grinding mobs, but I don't do it because I don't care about reaching max leveling.
My main goal is not VR10, it is to actually see everything there is to see.
As for your fourth point, I wasn't complaining about those barriers I think they did a good job translating the open world of other ES game to the mmo world.
So again, when you played morrowind or oblivion, what were you doing ? what were you enjoying about the game that you cannot do in this one ?
And I think that's where another issue lies.
You have all these people who are really here for the pvp. Except, Zenimax made it so that leveling through pvp is slower essentially sending the message that "this isn't a pvp game".
Becuase it isn't.
But people showed up for the pvp and they are discovering it isn't a pvp game.
It's not really about alienating people, it's about who the target audience is. People can show up and say they want to do x all they want but I suspect they weren't the target audience.
The question is, is Zenimax clear on their target audience and are they certain this target audience is enough to sustain the game?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo