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Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.

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  • salehramsalehram Member Posts: 2

    I've been around in all the cases of erotica1, NCDot and lately IZ cases... and it seems we will see worse cases in near future... :(

    Now, I have my issues with ganking/griefing, and abusing as well (incoming carebear accusation... but whatever), but I got over them because i felt I cannot let some retards ruin my REAL LIFE because of their retarded acts.

    However, when it comes to the community as a whole (not 1 or 2 persons), I feel bad about the level the community has reached... I remember the replies that cancer guy got in his thread and how people just had his case all to be his fault, and I remember how the assholes of erotica1 sociopaths were talking to that guy and his wife, then later how they wrote about it in their stupid site minerbumping justifying what they did and putting it all on the poor guy.

    But last week, the amount of bs I saw on the forums because of IZ case was strange... I thought 2 times already about letting (or canceling) my subs, but I thought I might get well later, but this time I am thinking again really... despite all the epicness and awesomeness and the glory in EVE, the community in it does make a huge impact on the image of this game... it is as if you put a diamond in the toilet or something like that... diamond by itself is good, but it is in a dirty sick water.

    For Infinity Ziona, I hope your case either to be taken care of from CCP or people realize how sick the community has became now and teach CCP a lesson to put a stop to all the madness that we see in-game and on the forums.

    o/

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by salehram

    /snip

    For Infinity Ziona, I hope your case either to be taken care of from CCP or people realize how sick the community has became now and teach CCP a lesson to put a stop to all the madness that we see in-game and on the forums.

    o/

    Nice 1st post.

    And I know you didn't read the thread cause if you did, it was IZ saying 'if you don't agree, you are a BAD WORD'.

    This 'cry against the EVE community' line is strange as IZ's logic was pure 'lolwut?' material.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by salehram

    /snip

    For Infinity Ziona, I hope your case either to be taken care of from CCP or people realize how sick the community has became now and teach CCP a lesson to put a stop to all the madness that we see in-game and on the forums.

    o/

    Nice 1st post.

    And I know you didn't read the thread cause if you did, it was IZ saying 'if you don't agree, you are a BAD WORD'.

    This 'cry against the EVE community' line is strange as IZ's logic was pure 'lolwut?' material.

    That you think speaking out against what I have spoken out against is 'lolwut?" is interesting.  

    Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong?  

    If you think that's "lolwut?" all I have to say to you is lolwut?.  

     

     

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
     

    That you think speaking out against what I have spoken out against is 'lolwut?" is interesting.  

    Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong?  

    If you think that's "lolwut?" all I have to say to you is lolwut?.  

     

    So if I don't agree with you, I am condoning breach of EULA?

    Nice strawman you got there. 

    Also, why isn't your logic of 'if you don't agree, you are BAD WORD' that was used on the EVE-O forums not being argued here?

    For anyone wanting to know the whole story; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4482341#post4482341

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
     

    That you think speaking out against what I have spoken out against is 'lolwut?" is interesting.  

    Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong?  

    If you think that's "lolwut?" all I have to say to you is lolwut?.  

     

    So if I don't agree with you, I am condoning breach of EULA?

    Nice strawman you got there. 

    Also, why isn't your logic of 'if you don't agree, you are BAD WORD' that was used on the EVE-O forums not being argued here?

    For anyone wanting to know the whole story; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4482341#post4482341

    If you could link where I said "if you don't agree, you are a BAD WORD" that would be appreciated.  I can tell you now though that you cannot provide a link because that was never said.  The quote you provided is something you made up yourself and not anything I have said.

    You then further go on to propose based on your fictional quote that I am using a strawman argument by pretending that I said if you don't agree with me that you are condoning a breach of the EULA which is itself another fictional creation and is a straw-man argument.

    In actuality, I did not say "if you don't agree with me you are condoning a breach of the EULA" I instead asked you a number of questions, punctuated with questions marks.  These are below

    "Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong? "

    You have confused a question, designed to illicit a response, with a statement, designed to state something as fact.  The statement would look like this, rather than the above.

    You think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months.  You think that complaining against that harassment is wrong.

    There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said. 

     

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123

    EVE is a GREAT game.

    Why?

    Because it keeps all these Dickwads out of the games I want to play. Now if only EVE could keep all the gold sellers and bots away as well it would be the perfect game.

     

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
     

    /Snip

    There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said. 

     

    Now we get into some pretty funny territory as we now have a question that puts words in people's mouth.

    How's this; 'When did you stop beating your wife?' is also a 'question'.

     

    I see you are avoiding the mention of your thread on the EVE-O forums btw. I would too cause the logic you presented there was even worse.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • salehramsalehram Member Posts: 2
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    EVE is a GREAT game.

    Why?

    Because it keeps all these Dickwads out of the games I want to play. Now if only EVE could keep all the gold sellers and bots away as well it would be the perfect game.

     

    Small example from the people in the game that I PLAY as well...

    Another example is:

    I will gank you and you because you do not play the game like my style and you need to accept that and be happy for it, and if you speak against it then GTFO because you are not entitled to play the game with your style, but you need to play with my style.

    It is like I'm paying that 15$ every month so I can feed those trolls and gankers who enslave and put the hate on any highsec people, as if highsec was not part of the game.

     

    --

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Welcome to life. If you want a game that is kid friendly EvE certainly isn't, but down blame human faults on a game. The only thing EvE gives you is freedom, and it is certainly a dystopian example about how freedom without boundaries or consequences will get misused.

     

    Griefing someone recovering from cancer? Yeah thats real low and personally i don't understand how any human being can derieve satisfaction from that, but thats my entire point. Must humans are detestable, selfserving, bottomfeeding scum only held in balance by fear of law or more direct consequences.

    Just think about it, do you think any of the millions of people making a living of screwing over other people in capitalism cares wether your in remission or have a gard life? The guy selling you a insurance he knows won't cover you? The guy at the used cars dealer who sells you a car which he fixed the miles counter on? The guy at the bank giving you a credit he knows you can't afford? The priest that abuses children? Or how about those "magic cures" people that sell insanely expensive "medication" to desperate people grasping for straws? Or how about those 10-75% of women who have been victim of sexual abuse depending on nation?

     

    This is not a problem of EvE, this is a problem of humans. If you only encounter this in a game like EvE, then im very envious of the kind of life your leading.

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
     

    /Snip

    There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said. 

     

    Now we get into some pretty funny territory as we now have a question that puts words in people's mouth.

    How's this; 'When did you stop beating your wife?' is also a 'question'.

     

    I see you are avoiding the mention of your thread on the EVE-O forums btw. I would too cause the logic you presented there was even worse.

    No the question "when did you stop beating your wife?" is a question relating to an event. My question was aimed at establishing your opinion on a subject.

    Consider "when did you stop beating your wife?" vs "do you believe green is a nice color? They are completely different in context.  I think its time to stop trying to obfuscate and twist and simply answer the questions I asked you, don't you think?

    As for the link you provided, your interpretation of my intentions in the thread is your interpretation of my intentions.  You have an opinion and your welcome to have one however it is merely your opinion and the thread is there for people to read and come to their own opinions and conclusions.  Or are you proposing that your opinion is fact and there is no other valid opinion or conclusion to be drawn?

     

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Zarbyte
    Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

    yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

    I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

    None is forced to play some game.

     

     

     

    EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

    You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

    Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

    A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

    A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

    Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

    Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

    Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

    Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

    Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

    Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

    And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

     

    As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

     

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by jpnz
    TIL Malcanis is a goon. :P

     

    It was a TIL for me too.

    IZ is notorious on the EVE-O forums for blatantly making shit up or wildly exaggerating, and then endlessly defending his provably wrong bullshit. He doesn't get the bites he used to on the official forums, so I guess that's why he's trying it on here.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • ace5572ace5572 Member Posts: 113
    Originally posted by Phertias

    EvE players always talk about their precious "freedom" of the game. So does the US. Neither of them have any.

    I have heard many EvE players talk about how much freedom you can have in EvE because you can control parts of the game by establishing a hardcore guild, gain reputation and just control the game.

    If players can get THAT much control in the game, then the game is not about freedom, its about dominance. Its about allowing people to rule other people. Or even rule the GMs. Imagine if one of the big guilds talks negative about the game. It would have hurt CCP so much that the company is afraid of the guilds. Its the pattern that is described right here. Let me break it up for you:

    CCP has a moral code of conduct which they must apply themselves to. If they dont, they will lose players like what just happened. However, since they have NOT reacted, there can only be a few possible outcomes: 1) They dont give a damn. I bet they do, because otherwise they would lose players. 2) They havent seen it. In that case, CCP is a lousy company because even NEXON sees things like this. 3) CCP is afraid of the powerful players due to what they can do to the game. This is the most likely reason.

    EvE has granted players to much freedom that it has gotten out of hand and freedom has turned to dominance and anarchy. Its amazing in one way and terrifying in other ways. But freedom is not about being dicks to each other because you can. Freedom is about treating each other with respect and allow people to be themselves without being judged by your state in life (cancer f.x.) or disabilities. 

    EvE is not about freedom. Its about control over other people. Just like the US. And even though people can be dicks in other games, they can never control other players and harass them as much as in EvE. 

    So again. EvE is not about freedom. Unless you consider freedom the ability to control other people (which is solid communism). 

    Amen.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by jpnz
    TIL Malcanis is a goon. :P

     

    It was a TIL for me too.

    IZ is notorious on the EVE-O forums for blatantly making shit up or wildly exaggerating, and then endlessly defending his provably wrong bullshit. He doesn't get the bites he used to on the official forums, so I guess that's why he's trying it on here.

    Since Malcanis never pretended to be a goon, this can only mean one thing. Malcanis is a sekrit GIA agent! :P

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by ace5572
    Originally posted by Phertias

    EvE players always talk about their precious "freedom" of the game. So does the US. Neither of them have any.

    I have heard many EvE players talk about how much freedom you can have in EvE because you can control parts of the game by establishing a hardcore guild, gain reputation and just control the game.

    If players can get THAT much control in the game, then the game is not about freedom, its about dominance. Its about allowing people to rule other people. Or even rule the GMs. Imagine if one of the big guilds talks negative about the game. It would have hurt CCP so much that the company is afraid of the guilds. Its the pattern that is described right here. Let me break it up for you:

    CCP has a moral code of conduct which they must apply themselves to. If they dont, they will lose players like what just happened. However, since they have NOT reacted, there can only be a few possible outcomes: 1) They dont give a damn. I bet they do, because otherwise they would lose players. 2) They havent seen it. In that case, CCP is a lousy company because even NEXON sees things like this. 3) CCP is afraid of the powerful players due to what they can do to the game. This is the most likely reason.

    EvE has granted players to much freedom that it has gotten out of hand and freedom has turned to dominance and anarchy. Its amazing in one way and terrifying in other ways. But freedom is not about being dicks to each other because you can. Freedom is about treating each other with respect and allow people to be themselves without being judged by your state in life (cancer f.x.) or disabilities. 

    EvE is not about freedom. Its about control over other people. Just like the US. And even though people can be dicks in other games, they can never control other players and harass them as much as in EvE. 

    So again. EvE is not about freedom. Unless you consider freedom the ability to control other people (which is solid communism). 

    Amen.

    You mean democracy, fundamentalism, monarchy, communism, fascism, etc,etc,etc. Do not delude yourself into thinking any form of government is better than the other merely more honest and less so (utopian democracy, the one defined by the Athenians all those years ago, simply does not exist because it implies utter equality, a precept of communism, and the ability of the populace to choose leaders of their own accord, precept of modern democracy, from the most fit to rule as decided by the populace, so called philosopher kings, for clearly defined and limited terms).

    image
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Zarbyte
    Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

    yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

    I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

    None is forced to play some game.

     

     

     

    EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

    You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

    Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

    A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

    A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

    Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

    Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

    Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

    Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

    Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

    Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

    And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

     

    As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

     

    Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

    While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

    When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

    On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

    As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

    Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

    It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

  • MauriceMacouilleMauriceMacouille Member CommonPosts: 9
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by jpnz
    TIL Malcanis is a goon. :P

     

    It was a TIL for me too.

    IZ is notorious on the EVE-O forums for blatantly making shit up or wildly exaggerating, and then endlessly defending his provably wrong bullshit. He doesn't get the bites he used to on the official forums, so I guess that's why he's trying it on here

     

    Really? Then please enlighten us. Unless you´re being a liar and a generally dishonest, bitter shut-in, who likes to side with the "strong", and to brown-nose griefers and all kind of shitbags EvE gathers.

    We all remember how you defended Erotica1 and his cronies by hurping and durping "but he needs fair treatment!"

    You're one of the worst in this community. passively accepting grief-based gameplay and actively supporting those who indulge in it.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Zarbyte
    Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

    yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

    I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

    None is forced to play some game.

     

     

     

    EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

    You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

    Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

    A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

    A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

    Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

    Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

    Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

    Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

    Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

    Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

    And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

     

    As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

     

    Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

    While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

    When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

    On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

    As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

    Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

    It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

    The only thing certain about you is that you dodge responsibility for your actions ( "it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players."  ever think you may have royally pissed someone off doing that? and them coming after you for revenge believe it or not is well within the scope of the game, harassment goes to them coming to your house and kicking your shit in or stalking you in real life not in-game, this shit happens in WoW and other MMOs as well the only difference is EVE is a big fat target because it has so many "horror" stories told by "innocent" people who then neglect to say: well our community is also one that donate heavily whenever a charity fundraiser is put on and said fundraiser is both player and CCP policed, you'd not only get your toon banned but their alts lollerstomped by groups of people until you quit the game if you tried to scam a fundraiser, that all those victims you mentioned, you not included of course because you are as much a victim in this as erotica is, maybe even more so because no CSM is nailing you to the cross and your victims aren't agreeing that you were in the right, got in-game support from people but you delightfully forget to mention that and focus on the negative to get your own way ).

     

    Short answer: If you are a douche people will be a douche to you and trust me they will find the best ways to piss you off if you did it to them so stop crying to anyone that can hear you and be at least half the man you physically are because words do not fucking matter, actions do and those "harassers" never did anything beyond following you around which is allot less than what you did to others.

     

    Edit: Also to your PL tirade: Low sec if infinitely more accessible than 0.0, no one knew what rogue elements would've done in that scenario, what was known was what the major power blocks would do and while you bitch allot about it the major powerblocks can field, at best, 10 k people at any given time, how many subs does EVE-Online have again? ~500k ? even if a 10th or 5th of those are in null sec alliances that is allot potential for chaos and if you even take a look at the Polaris fleets you would notice they are events to gauge player involvement in the game, the first couple were in 0.0, that one was in low sec... I can only imagine what would happen to a Polaris fleet in high-sec.

    image
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Zarbyte
    Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

    yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

    I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

    None is forced to play some game.

     

     

     

    EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

    You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

    Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

    A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

    A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

    Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

    Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

    Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

    Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

    Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

    Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

    And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

     

    As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

     

    Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

    While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

    When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

    On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

    As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

    Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

    It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

    The only thing certain about you is that you dodge responsibility for your actions ( "it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players."  ever think you may have royally pissed someone off doing that? and them coming after you for revenge believe it or not is well within the scope of the game, harassment goes to them coming to your house and kicking your shit in or stalking you in real life not in-game, this shit happens in WoW and other MMOs as well the only difference is EVE is a big fat target because it has so many "horror" stories told by "innocent" people who then neglect to say: well our community is also one that donate heavily whenever a charity fundraiser is put on and said fundraiser is both player and CCP policed, you'd not only get your toon banned but their alts lollerstomped by groups of people until you quit the game if you tried to scam a fundraiser, that all those victims you mentioned, you not included of course because you are as much a victim in this as erotica is, maybe even more so because no CSM is nailing you to the cross and your victims aren't agreeing that you were in the right, got in-game support from people but you delightfully forget to mention that and focus on the negative to get your own way ).

     

    Short answer: If you are a douche people will be a douche to you and trust me they will find the best ways to piss you off if you did it to them so stop crying to anyone that can hear you and be at least half the man you physically are because words do not fucking matter, actions do and those "harassers" never did anything beyond following you around which is allot less than what you did to others.

     

    Once again my actions were not bannable. The actions of the person who harassed me were. If a player cannot deal with normal gameplay and takes it so personally they sub 3 alt accounts for the purposes of implementing a months long campaign of harassment in breach of the TOS and EULA then they should have action taken against those accounts.

    There is no place in game or on the forums for stalking or harassment. CCPs words not mine. Read the EULA and TOS. It sounds like your defense of this persons weird fixation which may have been caused by my legitimate and within the rules actions in game might even go as far as out of game actions against a player (assault etc).

     

     

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Zarbyte
    Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

    yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

    I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

    None is forced to play some game.

     

     

     

    EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

    You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

    Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

    A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

    A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

    Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

    Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

    Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

    Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

    Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

    Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

    And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

     

    As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

     

    Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

    While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

    When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

    On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

    As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

    Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

    It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

    The only thing certain about you is that you dodge responsibility for your actions ( "it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players."  ever think you may have royally pissed someone off doing that? and them coming after you for revenge believe it or not is well within the scope of the game, harassment goes to them coming to your house and kicking your shit in or stalking you in real life not in-game, this shit happens in WoW and other MMOs as well the only difference is EVE is a big fat target because it has so many "horror" stories told by "innocent" people who then neglect to say: well our community is also one that donate heavily whenever a charity fundraiser is put on and said fundraiser is both player and CCP policed, you'd not only get your toon banned but their alts lollerstomped by groups of people until you quit the game if you tried to scam a fundraiser, that all those victims you mentioned, you not included of course because you are as much a victim in this as erotica is, maybe even more so because no CSM is nailing you to the cross and your victims aren't agreeing that you were in the right, got in-game support from people but you delightfully forget to mention that and focus on the negative to get your own way ).

     

    Short answer: If you are a douche people will be a douche to you and trust me they will find the best ways to piss you off if you did it to them so stop crying to anyone that can hear you and be at least half the man you physically are because words do not fucking matter, actions do and those "harassers" never did anything beyond following you around which is allot less than what you did to others.

     

    Once again my actions were not bannable. The actions of the person who harassed me were. If a player cannot deal with normal gameplay and takes it so personally they sub 3 alt accounts for the purposes of implementing a months long campaign of harassment in breach of the TOS and EULA then they should have action taken against those accounts.

    There is no place in game or on the forums for stalking or harassment. CCPs words not mine. Read the EULA and TOS. It sounds like your defense of this persons weird fixation which may have been caused by my legitimate and within the rules actions in game might even go as far as out of game actions against a player (assault etc).

     

     

    Yeah...

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harass

    Now have fun justifying your point of view when both you and him/them are within the definitions... well within TOS...trololol... both of your are equally in or equally outside it, targeting people makes no point because him/they created a hostile environment for you just as you did for him/them in the past. Take your lumps, learn to block and hopefully stop using arguments like "If you think I am wrong you think pedophilia is funny, do you think that is ok?" .

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by MauriceMacouille
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by jpnz
    TIL Malcanis is a goon. :P

     

    It was a TIL for me too.

    IZ is notorious on the EVE-O forums for blatantly making shit up or wildly exaggerating, and then endlessly defending his provably wrong bullshit. He doesn't get the bites he used to on the official forums, so I guess that's why he's trying it on here

     

    Really? Then please enlighten us. Unless you´re being a liar and a generally dishonest, bitter shut-in, who likes to side with the "strong", and to brown-nose griefers and all kind of shitbags EvE gathers.

    We all remember how you defended Erotica1 and his cronies by hurping and durping "but he needs fair treatment!"

    You're one of the worst in this community. passively accepting grief-based gameplay and actively supporting those who indulge in it.

     

    If I understand you correctly, you are actually attacking me for standing up for due process and fair application of the rules, rather than advocating that players being banned because there is some forum noise.

    And then ignoring the inconvenient fact that I also publically stated that after CCP consulted with the CSM over the matter, all my concerns had been fully addressed and I completely supported their action against erotica1

    Once again, I am pleased to consider myself a part of the community you're not in: My community plays by the rules and expels those who break them. Yours is a hysterical mob who believe that insults are accusations and hurt feelings are proof.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,341

    Bleh.

    I have played EVE for over 10 years. Overall EVE is actually the most friendly MMO I have ever played.

    This venom shit that the OP is spewing makes me glad he is not playing EVE. EVE dont need that kind of hatefull persons.

  • IstrebiteIIstrebiteI Member Posts: 266
    You know people, all you talk about freedoms and stuff... I get it that it's stupid when games ban you for exploiting game mechanics or even using them cleverly to hinder hurt someone you're allowed to hurt by game mechanics. If a game allows me to attack a player, I should never ever be banned for it, despite the fact that I'm attacking same player over and over and he has no way to get away from it because I'm spawn camping... if this is to be considered agaisnt the rules, change the game mechanics to prevent that, do not ban players! So, in this way, I agree games should have more freedom and less hand-holding and banning players for... playing the game.

    However, the way games like EVE or Drakfall or others work is that you can grief without suffering any penalty yourself. And this is THE problem. Everything OP talked about can be summed up to this: "They can hurt you, you can't hurt them". This is the problem. Griefing is fine - but you must be liable to the same pain you subject someone else to. This is the same in Minecraft, for example. What griefers do? Come and ruin someone's creation. Can you do it to them? No, they have nothing to ruin themselves! If griefer would have something to lose, would he grief? Probably not.

    So yeah. Mature games that provide freedoms would be great IF they would provide a mature environment where you can be punished. Where there is a way to get back at someone who griefed you. Where there is no cheap way to ruin someone's life (or there's a cheap way to ruin anybody's life). There must be a way to grief the griefers. These ways must be thought out by the game design team. What do griefers value? What would really hurt and punish a griefer? And so on. And given to the gamers.

    Because, look at it this way. There are enough people who are fed up with griefing. Why are they not doing anything? Because game mechanics do not provide for it! IRL, when someone comes and verbally abuses you, he gets punched to the face, beaten, shot or whatever you prefer. When someone stronger than you comes and verbally abuses you, he gets arrested and sent to jail. You can grief, but you cannot stay invulnerable. If the game is to be "mature", it should provide for this as well.
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by IstrebiteI
    You know people, all you talk about freedoms and stuff... I get it that it's stupid when games ban you for exploiting game mechanics or even using them cleverly to hinder hurt someone you're allowed to hurt by game mechanics. If a game allows me to attack a player, I should never ever be banned for it, despite the fact that I'm attacking same player over and over and he has no way to get away from it because I'm spawn camping... if this is to be considered agaisnt the rules, change the game mechanics to prevent that, do not ban players! So, in this way, I agree games should have more freedom and less hand-holding and banning players for... playing the game.

    However, the way games like EVE or Drakfall or others work is that you can grief without suffering any penalty yourself. And this is THE problem. Everything OP talked about can be summed up to this: "They can hurt you, you can't hurt them". This is the problem. Griefing is fine - but you must be liable to the same pain you subject someone else to. This is the same in Minecraft, for example. What griefers do? Come and ruin someone's creation. Can you do it to them? No, they have nothing to ruin themselves! If griefer would have something to lose, would he grief? Probably not.

    So yeah. Mature games that provide freedoms would be great IF they would provide a mature environment where you can be punished. Where there is a way to get back at someone who griefed you. Where there is no cheap way to ruin someone's life (or there's a cheap way to ruin anybody's life). There must be a way to grief the griefers. These ways must be thought out by the game design team. What do griefers value? What would really hurt and punish a griefer? And so on. And given to the gamers.

    Because, look at it this way. There are enough people who are fed up with griefing. Why are they not doing anything? Because game mechanics do not provide for it! IRL, when someone comes and verbally abuses you, he gets punched to the face, beaten, shot or whatever you prefer. When someone stronger than you comes and verbally abuses you, he gets arrested and sent to jail. You can grief, but you cannot stay invulnerable. If the game is to be "mature", it should provide for this as well.

    He is an afk cloaker that ganks people and locks down systems in 0.0 and can do so without threat. To translate it for you: he is a griefer... that got griefed, so your entire idea goes out the window because the OP is someone getting consequences for his action and the EVE community does this (me and my old corp hunted down corp thieves and ganked them, my best friend in EVE saved up enough for a merc contract for a few months and sent quite a few individuals to gank, grief and generally make the life of a guy who destroyed his last corp on purpose for profit and lols extremely hard... suffice to say that dude couldn't play EVE for a quarter of a year and this happens allot more often than you guys believe but these stories aren't so interesting so they rarely get reported by "the unbiased gaming media" ).

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  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414

    OP , I found your post to be a very interesting read indeed ..... however , I find it a strange that you also state that you are an Eve vet and have played it for 10 years.. so could you explain why all of a sudden you have so much hate and bitterness toward a game that you have been playing so very very long ?

    And surely these things that you describe have been going on a long time yes ?

    And lastly if the game really is a bad as you have described, then why are there still nearly a million people playing it ?

     

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