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Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.

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  • MamasGunMamasGun Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by Xyire
    Originally posted by MamasGun

    ALSO: Important note: everyone that's saying "it's freedom in game" and "freedom that'- go ring the Liberty Bell.  When the OP stated he was banned for questioning the GM's decisions, that's fascism.  That's a dictatorship.  There ain't no freedom if you can't openly speak about what the GM's do or do not- regardless of it it's in-game or in the forums.

    Clearly people need to be taught about freedoms.  Everyone talking about "the big government taking their guns" (in real life) and "putting rules in a game" (in EVE) limiting freedoms is just... asinine.  Wake up, people.  Take your heads out of oyur asses and learn how to be respectable human beings.  Just because your parents didn't want to teach you better doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be better.

    If you knew better, you'd do better.  That is all.

    Just to point out, "freedom in game" that people are talking about is the fact that eve allows "bad guys".  This has nothing to do with the fact someone was banned for questioning a gm.  Likely he was banned for inappropriate conduct.  I have no information on how he treated the GM, but in general people who come on forums and say they were banned for "questioning a gm" really mean they were very rude and bitchy to the GM which is against the TOS and they get banned entirely for how they say what they say, not what they say.

     

    Speaking of knowing and doing better, perhaps grouping all people with ideas that disagree with your own into a stereotype then denouncing them is one of the behaviors that people should know better and do better about.

     

    Back to bad guys though, in a sandbox game, both bad and good guys are important to have an interesting and meaningful conflict.  If no one was acting the part of "bad guy" in eve, it would be a mining and trading simulator.  The groups that police areas would no longer need to exist and all security would be meaningless.  Eve is attempting to create a world with conflicts similar to those in the real world (criminals and police and regular folks) for this to work, all of the different types of people need be present.  Also, this is not refering to what happened to that person, purely a response to the "freedom" in EVE.

    Delicious food for thought.  Thank you very much for succinctly taking the time to form a sagacious response.  Wish there was someway to see the forum post...

    Again, thank you.  It's something to mull over, for sure.

    Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,

    Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
    image
    "I’m ready for
    All the comparisons
    I think it’s dumb and it’s embarrassing
    I’m switching off
    No longer listening
    I’ve had enough of persecution and conditioning
    Maybe it’s instinct- We’re only animal"
    - Lily Allen, Sheezus

  • Spectre_06Spectre_06 Member Posts: 4


    Originally posted by MamasGun ALSO: Important note: everyone that's saying "it's freedom in game" and "freedom that'- go ring the Liberty Bell.  When the OP stated he was banned for questioning the GM's decisions, that's fascism.  That's a dictatorship.  There ain't no freedom if you can't openly speak about what the GM's do or do not- regardless of it it's in-game or in the forums. Clearly people need to be taught about freedoms.  Everyone talking about "the big government taking their guns" (in real life) and "putting rules in a game" (in EVE) limiting freedoms is just... asinine.  Wake up, people.  Take your heads out of your asses and learn how to be respectable human beings.  Just because your parents didn't want to teach you better doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be better. If you knew better, you'd do better.  That is all.

    See, I'm going to stop you right there.

    When you begin playing in a game, you are required to follow certain rules.  When you post on that game's forums, you have to follow certain rules.  In any game I can think of that I have played (MMOs, mind you), there is one universal clause: you are no allowed to talk about GM decisions. There's reasons for this, and chief among them is so that they aren't forced to make a one-size-fits-all decision when X happens. There are far too many self-entitled people running about expecting that because something happened last time, then there should be no difference with this time (unless, of course, it's happening to you in which case you should just get a warning). This is not specific to EvE Online.

    EvE Online is the Mos Eisley of MMOs; this has never been disputed. For you Trekkies, we epitomize the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition, and we are quite Machiavellian in how we go about with our interactions. However, CCP has made many things clear over the years, and many of us know what limits not to push. In general, GMs will respond in a timely manner, even if it seems otherwise.

    Recently I was the subject of harassment in Rift. Three people in particular decided to go about the area, calling me a pedophile, among other things. I submitted the ticket, and I'll be honest I Don't think it was ever acted on (one of the people who was harassing me I am on relatively cordial terms with at this time). In the era of F2P games, customer service sadly goes out the window; if you know anything about EvE Online, you would know in 2011 CCP fired it's community service team after the rollout of Incarna, and the Monoclegate fiasco. That is neither here nor there, and I digress. I eventually had to get in touch with a community representative for Rift through the forums to get anything going, but I still don't think it will happen.

    This also does not have an effect on "freedoms". You have none on these forums, or any others. Anything you post that the administrators determine is inappropriate for the venue can and will remove it, and many times infract you. EvE Online and ever other MMO will not allow you to post GM correspondence on their forums; third-party servers such as this are acceptable to post them on, however, because there is literally no requirement that you do not. But, you don't have freedom of speech here or anywhere on the internet, no matter how much you want to harp on about being American (and I am an American).

    Ziona, I asked you to send me a mail detailing what happened. As an occasional writer for Massively and as I am currently doing a piece on bullying in the MMO world in general, I thought I could help you. You decided to throw a tantrum on the forums, open up multiple threads when you knew you shouldn't, and in general acted like a petulant child. In the end, after watching that I am not sorry to see you go.

    If you were banned it was by your own doing. But you were leaving anyways, so whatever. Take care, wherever you decide to go, but don't act like this when you get there. You'll only ostracize yourself before you can set up a foundation to succeed.

    Respectfully,

    Spectre 06

    (EvE in-game name: Anya Klibor)

  • ace5572ace5572 Member Posts: 113

    Originally posted by Teala

    People like you disgust me.   You compare game grief to rape.   Have you ever been raped?   I have some very harsh words I want to say, but unfortunately I'd be banned for saying them so I will keep them to myself.   But don't ever compare game griefing to rape.   You have no clue what you are talking about.

     Do you know what an analogy is? He was comparing the two to paint a picture and get a point across, its not to be taken literally as "this is exactly like rape". So take a step back and relax.

    Originally posted by kairel182

    Not everyone is an asshat in Eve.   Goonswarm represent the bottom rung of the barrel, infamous for their douchebaggery round the world.

     

    That being said, get over it.  The game works around giving freedom.  Sometimes people abuse those freedoms, just like in real life.  The game operates under the premise that you have the same amount of freedoms as other players.  There is a risk in everything you do in game regardless of where you are or who you're playing with.  There have been loyal players whom have been bought out and stabbed their own Alliance in the back and caused irreversible territorial damage in null-sec, costing billion of ISK.  Just as there are hundreds of other stories, from the costliest online battle (recently featured on this site) in any online setting.  These freedoms allow for things and stories like these to flourish.

    Yes, there are people who scam/grief/troll in Eve.  Surprise, welcome to the internet.  You have those types of "people" in every game.  This one just happens to allow more freedom and thus they have larger impacts with their douchebaggery.  This doesn't mean you should take away freedoms.  There are negative things happening with-in the USA all the time which are directly related to the country allowing a large amount of freedom, it doesn't mean you should start stamping that out.  This very foundation is the reason why Eve is just a fascinating and awe-inspiring universe.

    That's right, universe.  It's not just a world, let alone merely a game.  These principles allow players to forge their own stories and alliances, just as well as they make enemies.  These people are often labeled as such and there are particular sub-sects that do their part to counter people such as the Goonswarm.  Just like there are people that run things such as Eve University corporation to take in newbies and train them on the games extremely harsh learning curve.

    It takes all kinds, evil included, to allow good to exist.  Nothing is more prevalent in online game than Eve to showcase this aspect.

    I don't know where in the United States you've lived or how old you are but you're totally misinformed about our country. In the last 10 years we've had nothing but freedoms stripped from us and people are completely content to let that happen. The Patriot Act? Being forced to buy healthcare or be FINED? Where did my freedom of privacy go? Where did my freedom to CHOOSE if i want healthcare or not without being slapped with a fine? They went out the window thats where. Just like any sense of dignity, morality, or shame in the EVE universe.

     

     

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,945
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by jesteralways

    Originally posted by kairel182

    Get over it.  The game works around griefing freedom.  

    Here fixed that for you.

    Originally posted by kairel182

    After re-reading your post, I seriously have to question why you're whining about this.  Why ANYONE would know about this person recovering from cancer is beyond me.  Why would someone put their personal life into the game unless it was someone they trusted?  Obviously this was a douchebag move if they knew beforehand that this was the case, but it doesn't in the least break any sort of rules nor is it against the game code.  This is NOT harassment, this is standard run of the mill trust being entirely misplaced.  Especially in null-sec, where ANYTHING GOES.  You know, anything.  There's nothing that can't be destroyed and anything beyond liquid ISK is a liability.

     

    I agree that it was morally wrong, but it's also the person's fault for divulging their personal information into a game setting.  There are people every where that would do this in any game, given the chance.  If you know Eve then you should know this.  I feel for the guy in real life, but have no sympathy for what he lost in game.  When I played I lost a lot, but never due to a trust misconception.  I only trusted real people, whom know personally.

    Yes of course. next thing you will say :- "a girl who is raped is at fault, of course the rapists did something wrong but the girl should never have left her house and never should have walked among unknown people"

    It has become a common thing these days to blame the victim for their misfortune and antagonize them. People like you are simply disgusting.

    People like you disgust me.   You compare game grief to rape.   Have you ever been raped?   I have some very harsh words I want to say, but unfortunately I'd be banned for saying them so I will keep them to myself.   But don't ever compare game griefing to rape.   You have no clue what you are talking about.

    Says the person who not only defended Erotica1's near psychological torture (or at least bullying) of another human being for his / her own sick amusement, but then proceeded to argue that the victim of that abuse was entirely at fault for everything. On top of that, you attempted to turn things around and paint Erotica1 as the victim! You have absolutely no place to talk, no credibility, and certainly no moral high ground to stand on.

    As for the OP, I'm sorry for what happened. I too was a victim of continued harassment, up to and including death threats in my EVEmail. CCP did two things about it: Jack and shit.

    There are good people in EVE though, and really it's CCP's attitude moreso than their customers which drove me off. I understand they can't (and shouldn't) ban everyone who calls someone else a nasty name, but death threats are a very serious matter (despite how laughable the concept of some twat from Europe coming stateside to get past my deadbolt, dog, and personal firearms to kill me is), and had the person(s) involved been living in America, legally actionable. As in possible jail time.

    Such a damned shame a decent game is infested with assholes and run by a company which is in the pocket of the largest group of them, and doesn't really care about threats, harassment, and such.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    image
  • Dr_ShivinskiDr_Shivinski Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Originally posted by MamasGun
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by MamasGun

    ALSO: Important note: everyone that's saying "it's freedom in game" and "freedom that'- go ring the Liberty Bell.  When the OP stated he was banned for questioning the GM's decisions, that's fascism.  That's a dictatorship.  There ain't no freedom if you can't openly speak about what the GM's do or do not- regardless of it it's in-game or in the forums.

    Clearly people need to be taught about freedoms.  Everyone talking about "the big government taking their guns" (in real life) and "putting rules in a game" (in EVE) limiting freedoms is just... asinine.  Wake up, people.  Take your heads out of oyur asses and learn how to be respectable human beings.  Just because your parents didn't want to teach you better doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be better.

    If you knew better, you'd do better.  That is all.

    Reading comprehension much? The OP never said he was banned. He wasn't banned. His thread was locked and it had nothing to do with his OP but rather the 20 something pages of people flaming him that caused the lock. CCP is incredibly tolerant of people criticizing them, you should see some of the recent threadnaughts about the changes to XL turret tracking and everyone claiming the CCP is a Goon pet and this that and the other.

    And to attack some complete strangers reading comprehension makes you.. what?  Big man on campus? You see, you attack my reading comprehension because that is all you know of me- we're online.  Run with what you want, but I can tell you, you have no weight in this discussion. All you're doing is helping to further prove the point of idiots online, so- a BIG well done, you. Thanks!  Makes my point that much more easier.

    Okay, he didn't get banned- the thread got locked.  Same diff in my eyes- silencing those trying to shed some light on a shitty situation. 

    Go back to EvE Online where you belong, please; the grown ups are trying to talk. This is grown-folks business.  Adult swim- kiddies outta the pool.

    Er ma gawd- the world needs better parents (or thicker condoms).

    I don't understand why you're so sensitive, I wasn't "attacking" you I was pointing out that you clearly didn't understand or possibly didn't actually read the OP. Again you miss the point where the thread lock had NOTHING to do with the OPs post but rather the 20+ pages of flaming that came afterwards. But sure go ahead and make a mountain out of a molehill that's all you have done this whole thread. 

  • Dr_ShivinskiDr_Shivinski Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

  • BigdavoBigdavo Member UncommonPosts: 1,863
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Bigdavo
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by kairel182

    After re-reading your post, I seriously have to question why you're whining about this.  Why ANYONE would know about this person recovering from cancer is beyond me.  Why would someone put their personal life into the game unless it was someone they trusted?  Obviously this was a douchebag move if they knew beforehand that this was the case, but it doesn't in the least break any sort of rules nor is it against the game code.  This is NOT harassment, this is standard run of the mill trust being entirely misplaced.  Especially in null-sec, where ANYTHING GOES.  You know, anything.  There's nothing that can't be destroyed and anything beyond liquid ISK is a liability.

     

    I agree that it was morally wrong, but it's also the person's fault for divulging their personal information into a game setting.  There are people every where that would do this in any game, given the chance.  If you know Eve then you should know this.  I feel for the guy in real life, but have no sympathy for what he lost in game.  When I played I lost a lot, but never due to a trust misconception.  I only trusted real people, whom know personally.

    They were old friends he had before leaving EvE. When he came back after going into remission they pretended to still be his friends then lured him out to be ganked. If you think that's ok you have serious issues.  But it's not the players totally at fault here, it's the developer who takes no action and sets no boundaries.

    It was not an in game thing, it was purely a scumbag move to gank a guy with cancer to try to outdo the last scumbag meta gaming low for some noteriety.

    I don't know what you expect CCP to do in a case like this? I 100% agree that what you have described is an absolute dick move, but there is a line that has to be crossed before a company can take action.

    Game-wise what they did is completely allowable.

    However I ask you, was the guy directly attacked or harassed because of his condition. Were words said afterwards to the affect of mocking or bullying him?

     

    Outright banning I would expect from any responsible games company. There doesn't have to a specific rule when there's a rule in almost all EULAs that states you may not perform actions that damages the reputation of a game. If you think knowingly luring a player with cancer by lying to them about your intentions so you can destroy their stuff and ruin that players enjoyment of the game doesn't damage the companies reputation go and ask your mom, wife, sister if they would let their child play in a game that promotes that sort of thing.

    Unless you're a sociopath you and I and everyone else knows that's both immoral and wrong. 

     

    You have not answered my question, which leads me to believe there are ulterior motives to starting this thread. You are allowed to gank whoever you want in this game, however you want. Period. You can act as big a dick as you want but it is still within the acceptable rules of the EvE universe. There is no preferential treatment just because you are suffering a disability or have overcome cancer.

    Now unless the gank victim was bullied/victimized/harassed/mocked afterwards, particularly because of his condition, it is out of CCP's hands. So I ask again. Were they?

    O_o o_O

  • RigurRigur Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • justmemyselfandijustmemyselfandi Member UncommonPosts: 559
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    They only do it because in real life because they'd have had their fucking teeth knocked out long ago. It's easy for the douches to run free while hiding behind a keyboard in a game. Confront one in real life, and chances are the punks would wet themselves.

    I don't let them get to me. I just remember my momma isn't having to bring me hotpockets whiie I live in her basement and sponge off her social security like these tools and I just happily move on.

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  • NecropsieNecropsie Member UncommonPosts: 142

    Never played EvE. Never planning to play it.

    Those are horrible stories. Especially the recently divorced guy (aka the guy encouraged to suicide).

    I always thinked about high-school bullies when someone says EvE players. Sure, in real life they are the guy who gets a beat-up but in the game, they become bullies.

    After reading your post (and some answers from this thread), i decided this was not the case. There is something mentally wrong with that kind of players. Something seriously wrong.

    And for the "dont share your personal things lolz" guy: Usually, this type of games are the escape tools from real life. And sometimes, you want to talk about things with people, even they are strangers or not. I dont expect you to understand, you are probably too young.

    Thanks for the post. At least now i know where the scum of the mmo universe is and i hope they stay there.

    Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,375
    This is not a game but simulation of real life. I deal with life daily ; games are for fun. I beated this game a long time ago but never bought or played it after it launched. I feel bad for the people who were grieved but honestly if you know this is how the game is why did you play it ?
    image
  • TolanaTolana Member UncommonPosts: 22
    Originally posted by YouSama
    Thanks for sharing this with us. Crossed EVE out of my "might pay to try again" list.

     

    Fully agree with this, thank you, I just crossed EVE off my list too.

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi

    They only do it because in real life because they'd have had their fucking teeth knocked out long ago. It's easy for the douches to run free while hiding behind a keyboard in a game. Confront one in real life, and chances are the punks would wet themselves.

    I don't let them get to me. I just remember my momma isn't having to bring me hotpockets whiie I live in her basement and sponge off her social security like these tools and I just happily move on.

     

    Do people really think the world works this way?  Have you ever knocked someone's teeth out because they called you some kind of racial slur?  I know that when you are still in school, you just get scolded for fighting.  But once you grow up, attacking someone because they called you a pedophile to your face is a crime.

     

    Wow.  This is a great example of taking a group of people, and making sweeping negative assumptions about them based on your preconcieved notion.

     

    This thread feels super toxic.  Even the first post ends with a massive verbal attack aimed at a group who's only shared attribute is that they enjoy a certain video game.  Makes me want to invoke Godwin's Law.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • ace5572ace5572 Member Posts: 113
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

     EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Thats what the entire OP's point was about. How shitty the community in EVE is. But the very end of your comment, and the guy who thinks its the only reasonable response in this thread, reminds me of a quote...

    “First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a socialist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

     

    That is Martin Niemoller speaking about German intellectuals who just let things happen because it didn't affect them. You could stand to learn a lot from that.

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203

    There is a place in EvE for good guys and bad guys.  I agree.  I was a bad guy the entire time I played.  I basically war decced carebear corporations for isk, I was called a griefer etc.

    However what people fail to see is that your in game actions should not cross over into out of game harassment.  

     

    War deccing a corporation and asking them for isk or they get killed is vastly different to pretending to be friends with a guy you know is recovering from cancer, pretending to be his friends and then kill him causing him to lose everything he has.  The first is ok, the second is despicable.

     

    Creating 3 alts and following a player (what happened to me) for 4 months non stop while raving personal attacks in local that relate to the real world (that I was a pedo etc) is not an in game action, its a deliberate attempt to harass and ruin the in game experience of another player.

    And while I did war dec and murder noobs, I always had a rule, if I kill a newb once I'd not go after them again, I mean why, what pleasure does someone get from killing an noob over and over.  Its counterproductive to the game.

     

    There are in game actions that your character creates and then there are out of game asshattery that you should never engage in if you have any self respect or respect for others.  Messing with kids, the sick or dying, families or attacking people in real life is not part of EvE.  

    Edit: I should say it should not be part of EvE but it is because CCP allows it to be part of EvE.  That's a mistake and one I think will eventually backfire on CCP when someone goes too far.

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by ace5572

     

    “First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a socialist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

     

     

    WoW, really? I held off and the post right after me proves Godwin's Law.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    One of you makes a highly offensive analogy of griefing to rape, then another equates it to Nazi Fascism, and another of you threatens to knock the teeth out of eve players irl?  This is the adults talking to the childish EVE players?  Your comments are ridiculous at best, and you prove yourselves to be narrow minded.  You take one person's posts and decide that the entire community of a game is just evil?  I can't believe how far we've sunk as a society.  You just did the exact same crap that OP was talking about, which as others stated, IS ALLOWED IN EVE.  It's sad that GOON etc do things like this, Oh btw GOON is 4chan, and they play EVERY MMO YOU PLAY.  So sorry, but this OP is bitter and angry and just wanted to post to get others of like mind to agree with them.  Which is fine, but your insults show you have no clue about the MMO world.  To think these people only play EVE is laughable at best.  I don't mind all of you, who were never going to play EVE anyhow, want to jump on a back patting band wagon.  But stop insulting people by calling them nazis, rapists, or threatening real life violence.  How have any of those comments made you better than the same people OP posted about?  If you agree with OP, then you wouldn't make such comments. 
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by Bigdavo
    You have not answered my question, which leads me to believe there are ulterior motives to starting this thread. You are allowed to gank whoever you want in this game, however you want. Period. You can act as big a dick as you want but it is still within the acceptable rules of the EvE universe. There is no preferential treatment just because you are suffering a disability or have overcome cancer. Now unless the gank victim was bullied/victimized/harassed/mocked afterwards, particularly because of his condition, it is out of CCP's hands. So I ask again. Were they?

    Sorry m8 but where I come from we wouldn't even have to ask that question.  We would never scam, grief or mess with a person we knew had cancer, especially if they'd been friends with us before they got it and had to leave EvE to deal with it..  Its dirty, low and shows a complete lack of respect not just for the person with cancer but for yourself and your family.

     

    Its called having self respect and pride.  

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Bigdavo
    You have not answered my question, which leads me to believe there are ulterior motives to starting this thread. You are allowed to gank whoever you want in this game, however you want. Period. You can act as big a dick as you want but it is still within the acceptable rules of the EvE universe. There is no preferential treatment just because you are suffering a disability or have overcome cancer. Now unless the gank victim was bullied/victimized/harassed/mocked afterwards, particularly because of his condition, it is out of CCP's hands. So I ask again. Were they?

    Sorry m8 but where I come from we wouldn't even have to ask that question.  We would never scam, grief or mess with a person we knew had cancer, especially if they'd been friends with us before they got it and had to leave EvE to deal with it..  Its dirty, low and shows a complete lack of respect not just for the person with cancer but for yourself and your family.

     

    Its called having self respect and pride.  

    So ditch the entire game because it has a group of idiots?

    Do you ever go out there in the real world, because if not, you might be in for a shock when you don't see the entire world singing sings around a campfire.

     

    OP: consider quitting any mplayer game if you are shocked every time you run into a a$$hat.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • ace5572ace5572 Member Posts: 113
    Originally posted by coltrask
    One of you makes a highly offensive analogy of griefing to rape, then another equates it to Nazi Fascism, and another of you threatens to knock the teeth out of eve players irl?  This is the adults talking to the childish EVE players?  Your comments are ridiculous at best, and you prove yourselves to be narrow minded.  You take one person's posts and decide that the entire community of a game is just evil?  I can't believe how far we've sunk as a society.  You just did the exact same crap that OP was talking about, which as others stated, IS ALLOWED IN EVE.  It's sad that GOON etc do things like this, Oh btw GOON is 4chan, and they play EVERY MMO YOU PLAY.  So sorry, but this OP is bitter and angry and just wanted to post to get others of like mind to agree with them.  Which is fine, but your insults show you have no clue about the MMO world.  To think these people only play EVE is laughable at best.  I don't mind all of you, who were never going to play EVE anyhow, want to jump on a back patting band wagon.  But stop insulting people by calling them nazis, rapists, or threatening real life violence.  How have any of those comments made you better than the same people OP posted about?  If you agree with OP, then you wouldn't make such comments. 

    Another person who has no idea what an analogy is and that it shouldn't be taken literal but is to get an idea across.

    This topic is about EVE not about every other game out there. Yes we know these people exist in other games but this is about EVE.

    This guy is the perfect example of the average EVE player....one giant wall of text, full of caps, taking everything literally to fit his argument. For the record i didn't compare Nazi Fascism to EVE but used a quote about it in regards to the guy who said "well the sociopaths aren't looking at me so i don't care."

     

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,356
    Eve-Online has always been a playground for assholes. I hope that is where they stay too.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • RigurRigur Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Bigdavo
    You have not answered my question, which leads me to believe there are ulterior motives to starting this thread. You are allowed to gank whoever you want in this game, however you want. Period. You can act as big a dick as you want but it is still within the acceptable rules of the EvE universe. There is no preferential treatment just because you are suffering a disability or have overcome cancer. Now unless the gank victim was bullied/victimized/harassed/mocked afterwards, particularly because of his condition, it is out of CCP's hands. So I ask again. Were they?

    Sorry m8 but where I come from we wouldn't even have to ask that question.  We would never scam, grief or mess with a person we knew had cancer, especially if they'd been friends with us before they got it and had to leave EvE to deal with it..  Its dirty, low and shows a complete lack of respect not just for the person with cancer but for yourself and your family.

     

    Its called having self respect and pride.  

    So ditch the entire game because it has a group of idiots?

    Do you ever go out there in the real world, because if not, you might be in for a shock when you don't see the entire world singing sings around a campfire.

     

    OP: consider quitting any mplayer game if you are shocked every time you run into a a$$hat.

    You also won't see people shouting the N word or calling people homophobic bullshit on the sidewalk. This is about cowards doing this stuff because they have the anonymity of the internet. 

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    What you are not understanding, is the analogy is not fitting, and very offensive. Oh my look at all my CAPS.  Please take your internet arguing skills to reddit.  You seem to not understand the point that rape is horrible, and not a proper analogy.  My statement isn't about other games, it's about the same comments made by people in this thread, that are the same silly insults etc. that OP complains about in EVE.  The fact you reply with an insult immediately again is very telling of your character.  But please, label me how you will, obviously you will.  Again, we have come to a low point in society.  And your comment is directly in relation to what happened under the Nazi regime, hence Godwin.
  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by ace5572

     

    This guy is the perfect example of the average EVE player....

     

    Seeing a lot of this in the thread.  Is this EVE-ism or something?

     

    First they came for the EVE players,

    But I was not one of them...

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

This discussion has been closed.