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new Trait patch killed low level fun (added poll)
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
in Guild Wars 2
Pretty much killed the fun for low levels.
Do you agree?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
What exactly has been spoiled?
From what I can tell it is zerg as usual except the champ spider has been reduced to elite status, making it mostly a waste of time!
Level 1-14 there's not really any difference. So I assume by 'low levels' you mean specifically levels 15-29? Since I have full 80s (One of each class) I haven't had a chance to check out the lower levels, though I was planning on playing and checking it out. I think it would mostly be dependent on the class.
A lot of classes, not having low level traits isn't a big deal. Some it's much worse (Like mesmer).
I didn't play yet my low level alts but from a quick look over new traits it seems they went wow way with simplified talents/less talent points which is a big disappointment for me - I hated it when wow destroyed the old talent system and I doubt gw2 will be better. It was enjoyable having new traits every level and having to decide what to do with them - now is as bland and boring as wow new talent system. After mega server and now talent simplification I wonder what's next - taking champion bosses from the world and putting them all in dungeons ?
One more change like this and I'll probably uninstall gw2 - I played it mostly for casual pve (their version of rvr is not interesting to me since no realm pride at all ). This change will probably make them lose more old players than the number of new players gained because of trait simplification .
Uhhhh.... no, you misunderstand the difference in talent points.
Before you spent 70 talent points, but the only major changes were every 5 talent points. ANY time a level 80 split their points up in ANY way that wasn't divisible by 5 per trait, was BLATANTLY suboptimal.
So they switched it to 14 talent points, each one worth 5 of the previous talent points.
Then they added more 40 more traits, giving each class 5 more options for possible traits.
So while it seems like less points at first look, it has the exact same effect.
The only difference would be if before you were spreading your points out like 12, 8, 16, 13, 24. Which would have been a blatantly bad, sub optimal, silly thing to do. (It would have deprived you of multiple minor and major traits to do that sort of spread) 6, 6, 0, 0, 2 is the EXACT same thing as 30, 30, 0, 0, 10. There is literally no difference between the two.
I hope you now understand how 70 and 14 are functionally identical so far as complexity. (But by adding 40 new traits, they actually increased the amount of complexity when it comes to choosing between traits, so the net complexity is higher)
edit: Nobody who knows what they're talking about on the forum is complaining about how the changes to traits creates less complexity.
The complaint people are making is that you get the traits later on in the game, so it's a little harder to level up. It's functionally the same amount of points, you're just getting your first trait you choose at level 30, rather than level 15. They didn't make the game simpler, they made it a little more difficult with some classes.
Currently playing a ranger from the scratch, was around lv 22 when the patch hit yesterday and I gotta say: you definitely feel the missing stat points. The traits, not so much. Could be that the first few talents the ranger has to offer aren't that significant, but personally, it didn't influence me that much.
The missing stat points however are a problem, which could prove even more drastic on other classes (haven't tried any other classes at low lv)
Too bad you forget that now you only get trait points from lv 30 and the better traits are now restricted until you get to a much higher level.
About building a sub optimal character - heard that argument a lot with the destroying of wow talents too - sorry but if someone wants to build a character which is not blessed by elitist theorists of the forums, he or she should be able to do it - what's next ,three optimal talent templates ? Why not just make one optimal talent template and don't let players have any choice at all to avoid mistakes ?
But there's literally no benefit. It's not 'This is sub optimal but good in it's own way' or even 'this is really sub optimal but you're trying something new' or 'this is exceedingly sub optimal but you're trying to find new alternatives', it was 'You have made an incredibly stupid choice, and you are holding everybody near you back, and crippling yourself'. By breaking up a set of 5, you're losing a trait. It was silly the way they had it in the first place. It was a case of false choice. They're making there be less trait points, but they give you the same amount of TRAITS. Which is really all that's important. And they're also giving you more traits to choose from. If somebody is really that intent on actually specifically making their character worse, they could always just NOT spend trait points, that's still an option too!
So it's not like you've lost the ability to make a horrible character that deserves pity.
And I didn't forget about the trait points later I actually edited that in afterwards, mentioning that the traits coming in later was the actual complaint on the forums.
The general complaint is not 'they simplified the game', but 'they made it harder until you get to higher levels'.
When you reach max level, you've made just as many meaningful decisions. Well, more, really, since there's more traits to choose from, and they're going to be adding even more in the future.
If you dont play the game why would it matter to you? Just one of those guys that have to put their 2 cents in regardless .
I am starting to get old so will be doing the same thing here soon as well.
I don't get why they pushed traits off until level 30 either. Trait resets are now easy and free, it seems to me that getting players started with traits earlier would have made more sense.
I also don't dig the consolidation of trait points. Sure, the rate of new traits hasn't changed, but not gaining any trait point benefits between the every 5 level mark is going to make progress seem even slower for newer players. The excuse that "new players were easily confused and tended to make sub-par builds" doesn't wash, as, once again, respecs are now easy and free.
Not too keen on the trait hunts either. In GW1, you usually had to fight your way to bosses that could provide signet captures. In GW2, this just becomes one more checklist that is best filled out by looking up some web guide and camping specific spots waiting for a particular event to spawn. It doesn't really do anything to get players back into exploration based game play.
There are some things I liked in the patch, but there is also the usual boat load of "what were they thinking" features/changes as well.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Game is a lot more fun for low levels now. Yes you don't have any trait point till 30 but This is 2-3 hours advanture and doesn't matter much. More importantly new trait unlock system, new traits and the megaserver system are the real diffrence for low levels here. Now finally I can play with my alt without any stupid train and not on a specific location but everywhere with a lot of people. This is the real change for low levels...
I agree
I also tend to create unusual builds just for the fun and difference
In wow I used to create talent hybrids which were actually very strong (back in wotlk as a weird hybrid shaman I completely outDPSed everyone in raid group even with low gear lol), then they screw up everything with kitty online talents where basicaly the tri option was one same stupid thing in coated in different wording - made me sick how simplified they made it
I think GW2 talents had stupid design from beginning, they should just make it the way the said in alpha - collecting ALL traits via tasks or sthing similar, they definitely failed in their design and the newer one is even worse in the early parts of the game
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
A change made so players can avoid mistakes is still a simplification but even aside this aspect of the changes, the fact they made some good traits unavailable to lower level players,nerfed drop rates etc - seems to be enough to annoy a lot of players. In the end we can chat all day on forums, what will count is how successful will be gw2 after these changes and I have doubts that unhappy gw2 players will continue to stay with the game,even wow lost quite a few players after their talent changes.
Time to level my necromancer or my thief this weekend and see how much fun is questing without traits.
You're making a crysis without nothing. I don't get it. In Guild Wars 2 30 level is 2-3 hours playtime. What is the big deal about it? Other than this nothing changed... Plus you got new traits for every class now and you can reset your traits whenever you want. I think you just want to complain that's all. And if you really wanna complain about new patch, start with new pvp changes, not trait system...
I'm not going to deny that some people are complaining about the trait changes!
I'm just saying they're complaining about something different, that's all. I won't even argue about whether they're going to gain or lose or whatever players, I just wanted it clear what people were actually complaining about.
You're making a crysis without nowhere. I don't get it. In Guild Wars 2 30 level is 2-3 hours playtime. What is the big deal about it? Other than this nothing changed... Plus you got new traits for every class now and you can reset your traits whenever you want. I think you just want to complain that's all. And if you really wanna complain about new patch, start with new pvp changes, not trait system...
Try the guild wars forums if you want to see what's the big deal. Not all players rush through levels so is not 2-3 hours playtime especially when level a few alts and in a game like gw2 where is no point in reaching max level fast. I could care less about gw2 pvp since I am not interested in any faction vs faction games without faction pride - fighting anonymous asura from server x is not my cup of tea.
I can't speak for lower tiers, but I have to say there's a ridiculous amount of server pride at the Blackgate/Jade Quarry/Tarnished Coast level. :O And even if I hate Blackgate with every ounce of my being, I have to respect them for standing up to the 2v1 beatdown they've been taking all week. Their teams are pulling crazy overtime.
Off-topic : Could be but I want more something like wow until battlegrounds and warhammer had :
different races in each faction,even better if they have distinct classes too, lot of game lore about the conflict, knowing the players by name and guild so if you see a certain name you will expect a gank squad of rogues around or a warrior with 2-3 pocket healers. Meeting enemy players outside one of your towns/camps, waving then trying to kill each other, fights going on all night while defending or attacking a town because no one wants to give up and admit defeat.
I tried wvw but it didn't clicked for me even if I had more hopes for gw2 pvp than pve. I still enjoy pve playing very casually - only 1 lv 80 asura engineer with a lot of alts.
Low Level content (lvl 40 and below) was my preferred gameplay. I don't enjoy the higher level content or zones like I do the low level zones.
I'm going to be honest here and admit that in GW2 I suck as a Player. I do my best in that game , but truth be told I suck. I can't complete some of the zones because I am terrible at jumping so jumping puzzles are out for me, I don't PvP at all (I tried WvWvW but my internet is too ancient for me to be anything but an easy target)... and higher level content I have trouble with. Too much trouble for it to be enjoyable.
But until now I did get my money's worth from the low level content, I felt as a customer that I could say I was "satisfied".
Then they destroyed Lion'sArch. It was the zone I personally enjoyed the most... art wise, "atmosphere" wise, loved it. I made a point of going there as much as possible. I admit I was peeved about that oh yes, but I kept GW2 so I could go back and play it someday after I got done being upset about Anet's story choices in the Living History Arc.
.........
Yesterday I logged in to see my characters gutted in their Traits... my lvl 51 ELE was down to only 4 traits.. FOUR TRAITS.... my other characters had less or none... I admit I was having trouble already properly playing the game, now without the traits....
At that point I realized I am NOT the customer Anet was looking for, I never will be. I quit my guild, deleted my characters, uninstalled the game. No reason to keep the characters, won't be playing again.
Rage? No. Reality. I don't "fit" in GW2 anymore after yesterday's Patch.
It was fun while it lasted.
Nothing has really changed on that regard
1-30 gettings skills, yay! 30+ getting traits, yay! Instead of spending useless 1 points every level u spend 1 each 5 and get a "decent"(results may vary) trait. now low lvls wont get horrendous 13/2/3 whatever build, plus they can reset on the fly.
NOW the megaserver however OH BOY sure made things more lively on low populated zones.
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
I wonder were all these shit players have been hiding.. while playing my 3000 hours i must have been blessed to never have run into the 13/2/3 player. ( maybe i was just awsome and carried them but i dont belive that *_* )
The 1 point a level gave you stat boost so clearly not useless and since you can reset on the fly now why not keep the old system?
I mean if you cant see every 5 points give me a minor every 10 give me a major i can chose what i want, then why are that person gaming maybe memory is more down that players ability.
Edit
And to the one who said its more complex now since you have 3 master trait in each line, 1 you have to unlock.... its not more complex it would have been the same if they added it without cutting down the nr of points from 70 to 14.
Its the same for a level 80 sure but not for a level 11-79.
On thief and mesmer, 30-50 may be a bit tougher...not any less fun though. Those classes are heavily dependent on grandmaster traits.
Overall, it's a good patch...less mistakes for newer players.
Dungeons are always open now thanks to megaservers.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
The difference is minimal in terms of traits at low levels. And being able to re-spec on the fly easily makes up for it - now you can try different things while on the same map.
A bigger issue for leveling alts is that runes can no longer be transferred to new arrmor via transmutation. (But fortunately low level runes are cheap.)