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Anyone starting to feel like EQ Next is still deep in concept phase?

KarbleKarble Member UncommonPosts: 750

What have we really seen so far?

A tech demo of a mob busting a building...which was probably not in engine.

Some jumping around (acrobatics) of a few characters

A few fighting styles with mobs lined up like bowling pins

A tech demo of how a mob can bash open a hole in the ground.

 

These were all how long ago now? Last August??

It's April 15th almost a complete 9 months since those videos.

9 months

Where are we now?

What is the level of completion?

How far are we from Alpha?

Will we have the same options of joining early as the current art making game (Landmark)?

I am starting to lose a bit of steam in the wait for the game I really wanted to play.

Don't get me wrong. I really have been interested in it ever since the initial talk leading up to last August.

Then there was the slow unlocking of the new picture via social media for EQ Next.

Quite a bit of hype for something that is still seemingly so far away.

I have been off of the MMO scene for a while and really had some hopes for this new crop of games. I guess I will put those hopes on the backburner for a bit longer or maybe try ArcheAge since it seems almost completed at this point and right around the corner (guessing June).

EQ Next is probably my most anticipated game, however I will not just play decoration games and call them an MMO in the meantime until it comes out.

 

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Comments

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Honestly I feel like landmark was released as a way to 'tide over' things before EQ Next came out. More of a time waster/fund obtainer they though might be a good fun tool for players to have. EQ next I doubt will come out incomplete, its very likely they will work on it a lot. Everquest is a big name in MMos (As in the original EQ is the template WOW took 90% of its elements from and tweaked them) so I don't see it being thrown out incomplete. It might just be a bit before it actually comes to launch.
  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585

    no. the concept is Landmark except 'Next' will have content made in house and not by the players. if you want to know what 'Next' is. look at 'Landmark'. they've told us this several times.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803

    My take on this is that they never intended on making two games here but realized just how much time and money it was going to take to get to EQN as they are wanting it so they decided to release it in steps with a proof of concept game minus the really expensive hand made content (Landmark) and use that release to learn what works and what doesn't for EQN.  If that's true they probably have not even started serious work on content creation in EQN except maybe some high level things as they are still working on basic systems in Landmark.  

    I would imagine that once they get the systems working in Landmark and can prove EQN is viable they will start to work on content to fill in the world.  If that's really the case I wouldn't expect EQN until 1-2 years after Landmark hits a flushed out state which it's not even close to right now.

    I'm not beating up on SOE over this as given what they are trying to do I think this is really a good idea releasing such a ambitious project in stages but I do wish they would be a bit more honest about what's going on rather than trying to make us believe Landmark was always in the plans.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Agreed..  We have not seen or heard anything about the world and NPC, etc etc..  I think EQN is still "years" away from going live, like 2016 at the earliest.. 
  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,738

    They are working on both games at the same time, but none of us know how many people are working on Next.  The systems that will be used in Landmark are supposedly being developed on Next and ported to Landmark (where I imagine they will be polished for Next).

     

    I would Say Next is going to take probably 6-12 months as a optimistic timeline after Landmark officially launches, but that is probably best case.  It just all depends on how fast they can put the content into Next, after the tools are developed.  I mean Next could go into "alpha", right after Landmark launches....And yes, before someone wise cracks, they probably will do the same thing with Next, as they are with Landmark, money wise.

     

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,128

    Since they didn't speak about eq next during pax east I see them waiting until SOE live in august 2014 where they hopefully make a huge presentation on the game again.

     

    Until then I expect its going to continue being about landmarks.

    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by muffins89

    no. the concept is Landmark except 'Next' will have content made in house and not by the players. if you want to know what 'Next' is. look at 'Landmark'. they've told us this several times.

    Exactly and the state of Landmark is very early ALPHA despite what they tell you. It has a basic gathering system and a basic progression through resource Tiers and Crafting tools. There is really nothing else.

    ----

    The Voxel engine is also very basic. It has a lot of bugs and they have not even integrated PN Triangles with averaged normals to get rid of the seams (This is a standard method used in meshes and Tessellation called PN-AEN you can look it up, it can be done in a vertex shader).

    Performance of the Engine is also way below standard even with debugging turned one (which i assume it is)

    ----

    Judging by the state of EQ: Landmark i would not expect this EQ: Next to come out before 2015

  • BBPD766BBPD766 Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by udon

    My take on this is that they never intended on making two games here but realized just how much time and money it was going to take to get to EQN as they are wanting it so they decided to release it in steps with a proof of concept game minus the really expensive hand made content (Landmark) and use that release to learn what works and what doesn't for EQN.  If that's true they probably have not even started serious work on content creation in EQN except maybe some high level things as they are still working on basic systems in Landmark.

    As stated in the reveal back in August, they did not initially plan to make two games. However, because of the "reboot," they realized  that they had an opportunity to provide us with a "game" that allowed us (the players) to use the same tools the devs are using, while at the same time, provide more time for them to work on producing EQN  and test most of the systems in Landmark prior to releasing them in EQN. Imo, this is a fantastic idea and a win/win for everyone. They should do this with all games as it provides an opportunity to make changes before the intended product hits the store shelves; in theory anyways...lol.

    Giving us all the systems right off the bat in Landmark wasn't even possible from my understanding as the decision to give the tools to the consumer was an "11th hour" decision. Using this logic, to me, it makes perfect sense that revealing systems in small doses keeps the player base interested (just enough) to continue and allows them the time they need to test new systems and tweek them before a full on implementation of them in EQN.

    I would imagine that once they get the systems working in Landmark and can prove EQN is viable they will start to work on content to fill in the world.  If that's really the case I wouldn't expect EQN until 1-2 years after Landmark hits a flushed out state which it's not even close to right now.

    I'm not beating up on SOE over this as given what they are trying to do I think this is really a good idea releasing such a ambitious project in stages but I do wish they would be a bit more honest about what's going on rather than trying to make us believe Landmark was always in the plans.

    They were honest from the start. They never once tried to make us believe Landmark was always in the plans. As someone who attended SOE live, Landmark was presented as an afterthought and was never in their plans. In fact, it was told to us that they spent months debating it before finally making the decision to give it to us.

     

  • Enigma7337Enigma7337 Member UncommonPosts: 38
     

    Unfortunatly everyone was given fluff during the last press release. They are struggling to to put something together. They built the engine to syphon money from fans. It's for sure in a late concept stage. 

    This won't come out for awhile. I bet you'll also see major changes from what they said last year to what the game really will be.

  • ReaperUkReaperUk Member UncommonPosts: 752
    John Smedley is on record as saying the release is likely 2015 so I wouldn't expect to see the public alpha before the early part of next year at the soonest. Landmark should be giving them a great head start though. Pretty certain it's the same engine for both games and the world building tools should work for EQN too. The development time should be greatly accelerated compared with other games through having Landmark to build on.
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 4,195
    Would guess Q4/2015
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Am I the only one who thinks that this release plan is ingenious? There is so much talk about quality, etc., etc. So what do they do? They basically give people Landmark, build up a stable community asset library while also testing the engine and hashing out some of the more pesky defects. This could actually allow them to expedite the release of Next only because many of the massive time sinks created by things like engine issues or larger gameplay issues will already be solved. I think that the actual testing cycle for Next could end up being shorter than most and also see better quality at release.

    Crazkanuk

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  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    Classic Sony: overpromise and underdeliver

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • KnyttaKnytta Member UncommonPosts: 414
    We have to see, most likely there will be a lot on Next at SOE Live this year. But you can also see it another way, IF they really wants Next to be a Sandbox they really can not release it before Landmark is up and running and working as intended. That could mean that Next will be delayed to Q3 2015. I love landmark myself but it is not finished, the first real showcase will be when they release combat and monsters to Landmark (and that is supposed to be fairly soon) as the monster models and AI should be similar as Next (but less powerful as combat in Landmark is supposed to be basic)

    Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.

    He who can describe the flame does not burn.

    Petrarch


  • AroukosAroukos Member Posts: 571
    I have faith to SOE and EQ Next Devs but we will see how it goes :)
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199

    I think by sheer accident they stumbled upon landmark, said "Oh it'll be a holdover until EQ3" then realize, shit, this is going to make us WAY more easy money than EQ3, and now they're milking it for all its worth. 100 bucks for alpha access, jesus.

     

    I've more or less lost interest in EQNExt anyone, considering how insanely casual they're going with it, and the fact that it'll have instances, and the dynamic quests won't progress unless you're there to see it.

  • FoobarxFoobarx Member Posts: 451

    The problem here is you people, yes, I do mean "you people" are getting excited about a game well before it even is slated to be released.  The developers, for some ungodly reason, seem to think we need to know about that little itch in their pants, and proceed to tell us about their glorious child before it has even been conceived.

     

    You people run out and start buying gifts for that baby on the notion that it will happen imminently.  Well months of trying go by before anything happens and you start wondering where that baby is.  Stop it already.  Both of you... and I'm talking to the developers here as much as the consumers.

     

    When the baby has been delivered, then tell us about it.  Really, all this clamoring about something that is going to happen x days or months or even years in the future is stupid.  When it's on the shelf, ready to buy, then it is a game.  Until then, it might as well still be an itch.  We don't need to know about your sex life.  When the baby is delivered, then you can brag.

     

    You people do this to yourself.  You fall for it every time.  No wonder half the games ever conceived are total crap... you'll accept anything at this point.

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,727
    People get way to upset about new MMOs. Its a competitive market and companies only release info when they are ready and the marketing dept tells them they can. Heck 4 months ago we knew almost nothing about Wildstar and then tones of info. They are not behind as they dont even have a release date. They are shooting for sometime 2015 right now so we have lots of wait time and if you cant hack it, dont look up anything to do about EQN for 5 months and then catch up. Will seem like more info that way =-)
  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Karble

    What have we really seen so far?

    A tech demo of a mob busting a building...which was probably not in engine.

    Some jumping around (acrobatics) of a few characters

    A few fighting styles with mobs lined up like bowling pins

    A tech demo of how a mob can bash open a hole in the ground.

     

    These were all how long ago now? Last August??

    It's April 15th almost a complete 9 months since those videos.

    9 months

    Where are we now?

    What is the level of completion?

    How far are we from Alpha?

    Will we have the same options of joining early as the current art making game (Landmark)?

    I am starting to lose a bit of steam in the wait for the game I really wanted to play.

    Don't get me wrong. I really have been interested in it ever since the initial talk leading up to last August.

    Then there was the slow unlocking of the new picture via social media for EQ Next.

    Quite a bit of hype for something that is still seemingly so far away.

    I have been off of the MMO scene for a while and really had some hopes for this new crop of games. I guess I will put those hopes on the backburner for a bit longer or maybe try ArcheAge since it seems almost completed at this point and right around the corner (guessing June).

    EQ Next is probably my most anticipated game, however I will not just play decoration games and call them an MMO in the meantime until it comes out.

    Sounds like you need to avoid playing games before release. Even paid betas / alphas.

    Most MMOs take years to develope. We're talking 5-8 years of developement. And most of these had systems nowhere near as complex as what EQN is trying to do.

    There is a reason most developers wait so long to start public betas. While it's certainly honest to involve people in a project from the very start, few people truly understand the process of creating a game. Most people have experience playing the end product, and then assume that makes them experts on the development process. It doesn't. There have been multiple attempts in the past to involve gamers from the ground up with a developing game. However, most of those have lead to people getting burnt out on unfinished products, or people treating an alpha / beta under the same standards as a fully polished / released game.

    So yes, the game IS early in development. They've admitted as much. The question is whether or not you should be involved in the game at such an early stage. By the sounds of your post, my answer would be 'no'. Alpha / Beta tests, when genuine, are far different from the public demos most of us have come to equate as the same thing. They are not. If you are someone who gets burnt out on games easily, you really need to discipline yourself to avoid playing games before they are ready. Otherwise you will just be jumping from disappointment to disappointment.

    Developing games is a bit like creating a magic trick. Once you've seen too much under the curtain, it starts to lose it's mystique / it's fun.

  • BBPD766BBPD766 Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    I think by sheer accident they stumbled upon landmark, said "Oh it'll be a holdover until EQ3" then realize, shit, this is going to make us WAY more easy money than EQ3, and now they're milking it for all its worth. 100 bucks for alpha access, jesus.

    There's no need to think this was an accident, they flat out admitted that they stumbled upon the concept of making Landmark into a game as an afterthought. This isn't a secret. Secondly, there is no such thing as EQ3 at this time. EQN is a reimagination of the original, not a continuation.

    As far as Landmark goes, why wouldn't they milk it for all it's worth? It's a decent game in it's own right. There was also a 60 dollar version to get into the alpha; both of which also got you unique in-game items. I dunno why it's surprising for you to grasp the concept of paying for early access to a game.

     I've more or less lost interest in EQNExt anyone, considering how insanely casual they're going with it, and the fact that it'll have instances, and the dynamic quests won't progress unless you're there to see it.

    Im not sure how you can determine how casual they are going with the game as you state when limited info. has been released and nobody has seen anything of value about EQN yet. They did state the instances would be limited, but even that has yet to be determined as, once again, there is limited info. about what they have actually completed at this point.

    Dynamic quests won't progress unless you're there to see it? LOL. Uhm, no. Dynamic means constant change. Just because YOU (yourself) are not there to see it doesn't mean the quest won't progress.

     

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by Karble

    Quite a bit of hype for something that is still seemingly so far away.

    You call what we have so far hype? They just teased the game. It's not more different than SWTOR having trailers 3 years before its actual release and the dev going radio silent for the majority of that 3 years. They are also releasing novella at a decent pace since SOE Live.

    Looking at Landmark development, they are struggling with a few systems integral to show a playable Next game right now:

    • mobs pathing (in a voxel world)
    • water (dynamic or not)
    • seamless zones
    • procedural generation (caves, biomes, etc)
    That doesn't mean that nothing else is being worked on though, but it does mean that they can't show the game proper without at least mobs pathing and the procedural generation working. They don't want to redo a SOE Live scripted demo.
  • BACONXBACONX Member UncommonPosts: 253

    I'm currently playing Landmark and while it is exponentially better than the Alpha stage they still have a ways to go before adding all the parts of the game. I feel that the rate at which Landamrk releases will indicate how ready EQNext will be. My gut feeling is that whenever Landmark releases (I have no idea)add a year from that point to the release of EQNext. Essentially, Landmark is the canary in the coal mine for EQNext.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,727
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Karble

    Quite a bit of hype for something that is still seemingly so far away.

    You call what we have so far hype? They just teased the game. It's not more different than SWTOR having trailers 3 years before its actual release and the dev going radio silent for the majority of that 3 years. They are also releasing novella at a decent pace since SOE Live.

    Looking at Landmark development, they are struggling with a few systems integral to show a playable Next game right now:

    • mobs pathing (in a voxel world)
    • water (dynamic or not)
    • seamless zones
    • procedural generation (caves, biomes, etc)
    That doesn't mean that nothing else is being worked on though, but it does mean that they can't show the game proper without at least mobs pathing and the procedural generation working. They don't want to redo a SOE Live scripted demo.

    What SoE is working on IMO is the first MMO I have seen in a long time that could be a game changer. We dont see them often and I have to say I am excited to see the outcome. With the unknown comes unknown problems and we need to give SoE a break as they work this out. Myself I am happy to wait for a polished product or a alpha invite lol, what ever comes first lol. 

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Karble

    Quite a bit of hype for something that is still seemingly so far away.

    You call what we have so far hype? They just teased the game. It's not more different than SWTOR having trailers 3 years before its actual release and the dev going radio silent for the majority of that 3 years. They are also releasing novella at a decent pace since SOE Live.

    Looking at Landmark development, they are struggling with a few systems integral to show a playable Next game right now:

    • mobs pathing (in a voxel world)
    • water (dynamic or not)
    • seamless zones
    • procedural generation (caves, biomes, etc)
    That doesn't mean that nothing else is being worked on though, but it does mean that they can't show the game proper without at least mobs pathing and the procedural generation working. They don't want to redo a SOE Live scripted demo.

    What SoE is working on IMO is the first MMO I have seen in a long time that could be a game changer. We dont see them often and I have to say I am excited to see the outcome. With the unknown comes unknown problems and we need to give SoE a break as they work this out. Myself I am happy to wait for a polished product or a alpha invite lol, what ever comes first lol. 

    I totally agree with you on this, new technology usually means taking more time to get it right.

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    I think they are paralyzed by the collective expectations of fans and other stakeholders. Don't hold your breath.
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