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Total Biscuit - Valve is missleading people

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Comments

  • RzepRzep Member UncommonPosts: 767
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Originally posted by Rzep
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by Rzep
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]

    Except for the fact that like I said, it takes all of thirty seconds (usually less) to scroll through that day's releases. Furthermore new releases also usually get space at the giant, scrolling banner ad at the top of the front page, with a big picture, listed price, and everything. To the right of that is another giant ad for whatever the mid-week or weekend sale is, and below that is the daily deal.

    TB is complaining about nothing, per usual.

    Edit: And oh yeah, there's the HUGE ad space at the very top, which AAA releases usually get for a couple of days. You know, the one advertising the Square-Enix sale right now. That gigantic thing, which even a legally blind person would have a hard time not seeing.

    I never look at the big scrolling spotlighted games on the top of the page. They always seemed almost random to me. It's a hodge podge of just about everything including new releases, sales, patches, DLC. My gripe with Steam right now is that it's layout is not enough anymore. It was ok when the stream of games was slow, but as Valve are opening the flood gates, the layout needs to change, all that empty space needs to be used.

  • RzepRzep Member UncommonPosts: 767
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Rzep
    Originally posted by Methos12
    Originally posted by Tbau

    Seriously, who has issues keeping up with the release dates of the few games they are watching?!?

    I haven't heard this complaint until Companies like Trion decided that they were going to take on Steam and now we are inundated with complaints about Steam...same with the "its impossible to find indie games on Steam because there are so many" BS. If there are so many, how are they impossible to find?!?

    Its like the cant keep up BS, if you are interested in an upcoming game, place it ON YOUR WISHLIST and bam!

    ...done and done.

    Whats doubly worse is, if you are so looking forward to a game why don't you remember when its coming out? And why would you be only looking at information from one source?

    I agree with you. And his NEW RELEASES rant is also pointless. He does realize you can scroll that list, right?

     

    I mean, are people that lazy or something?

    I see someone never worked in retail and had no crash course in marketing 101.

    I would rather Steam not become a marketing juggernaut. 

    The main appeal of Steam is that it allows indies to have more exposure then they would OTHERWISE. So two items with that point.

    1. we dont want a gate keeper deciding what games are 'good' and which games are not. That is for gamers to decide.

    2. we dont want game development infected too much by marketing. For many AAA games the marketing budget is HIGHER than the development budget. 

    I disagree, someone somewhere must have some degree of control. A fully open sales platform is an interesting idea, but I think that it is an experiment likely to fail, cause simply put people are stupid assholes especially on the internet. Give them the power and they will screw something up.

    I think the next step Valve is taking is allowing people to report games that they deem offensive...I mean come on. This is going to be a disaster. It would be better if they had an option for reporting and holding accountable the developers of clearly broken games.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Rzep
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Rzep
    Originally posted by Methos12
    Originally posted by Tbau

    Seriously, who has issues keeping up with the release dates of the few games they are watching?!?

    I haven't heard this complaint until Companies like Trion decided that they were going to take on Steam and now we are inundated with complaints about Steam...same with the "its impossible to find indie games on Steam because there are so many" BS. If there are so many, how are they impossible to find?!?

    Its like the cant keep up BS, if you are interested in an upcoming game, place it ON YOUR WISHLIST and bam!

    ...done and done.

    Whats doubly worse is, if you are so looking forward to a game why don't you remember when its coming out? And why would you be only looking at information from one source?

    I agree with you. And his NEW RELEASES rant is also pointless. He does realize you can scroll that list, right?

     

    I mean, are people that lazy or something?

    I see someone never worked in retail and had no crash course in marketing 101.

    I would rather Steam not become a marketing juggernaut. 

    The main appeal of Steam is that it allows indies to have more exposure then they would OTHERWISE. So two items with that point.

    1. we dont want a gate keeper deciding what games are 'good' and which games are not. That is for gamers to decide.

    2. we dont want game development infected too much by marketing. For many AAA games the marketing budget is HIGHER than the development budget. 

    I disagree, someone somewhere must have some degree of control. A fully open sales platform is an interesting idea, but I think that it is an experiment likely to fail, cause simply put people are stupid assholes especially on the internet. Give them the power and they will screw something up.

    I think the next step Valve is taking is allowing people to report games that they deem offensive...I mean come on. This is going to be a disaster. It would be better if they had an option for reporting and holding accountable the developers of clearly broken games.

    I could not possibly disagree more.

    Let others do what you suggest, let Valve be for people like me.

    Thanks I can decide for myself

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938

    I don't care what totalbiscuit has to say. I'm not clicking on the video so he can get click revenue. This seems like a cheap PR ploy to make himself relevant, sort of like the notch rant about oculus rift.

    Steam has some problems but me finding games isn't one of them. I also don't have a problem figuring out when a game is released. I don't mind older games getting promoted, especially if they go on sale. I buy most things off steam when they go on sale, not when they just get released.

    I'm all for platform competition though. It will give all these platform publishers some incentive to do their best.

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  • AzzrasAzzras Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Originally posted by Elmberry

    Total Biscuit talks about how Valve is missleading people about release dates and other things which could be much better. New titles are "drowned" by the amount of old ones on the front page of steam.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLNh5HPbQPo&list=UUy1Ms_5qBTawC-k7PVjHXKQ

    I 100% agree with him. I have felt the same way for a long time now. I have lots of games on steam but I wished it could be much better than this. Anyone know if something better is on its way, as I have been quite tired of steam lately. Maybe Google or another great company can do something better. :)

     

    Google is NOT a great company.  They are a multi-billion dollar corporation that sells your data to the highest bidder. 

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • justmemyselfandijustmemyselfandi Member UncommonPosts: 559
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Allowing the unwashed masses to tag game genres is the worst idea Valve has had so far in relation to the Steam client.

    For example, Hydrophobia Prophecy is not a goddamned strategy title, nor is Grand Theft Auto IV in any way, shape, or form an rpg. But the clueless dipwads that make up the majority of Steam's userbase have tagged them as such.

    All this has done is make searching via genre a pathetic waste of time.

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Allowing the unwashed masses to tag game genres is the worst idea Valve has had so far in relation to the Steam client.

    For example, Hydrophobia Prophecy is not a goddamned strategy title, nor is Grand Theft Auto IV in any way, shape, or form an rpg. But the clueless dipwads that make up the majority of Steam's userbase have tagged them as such.

    All this has done is make searching via genre a pathetic waste of time.

    actually if you have ever taken a statistics class you would know this idea is brilliant but it needs time to grow.

    as population and adoption increases the more reliable it will become. That is a statistical fact. Its exactly the same reason why voting polls are so reliable.

    Additionally, Valve can collect data on most used tags and least used tags which reveal gamer interest.

    nevermind tthe hash tag craze outside of gaming appears to be working.

    also...GTA is also not a sandbox, yet the gate keepers of marketing seem to make you think it is.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,392
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

    I like Origin. The client is written using Qt Framework so its stylish AND fast unlike steam's client that just have to self-update each time i run it and then boot for 20+ seconds. I don't have that issue with Origin, and if I have the option, I use EA's platform, not Steam. 

    Not to mention that Steam has become indy game trashcan lately. I don't like Minecraft and the likes and I never will. Simple as that. 

    Eh... Huh?

    Origin use longer time to boot than steam, takes WAY longer to patch, cant patch a game on its own, has lousy search options, often downloads the full original launch media before installing a game that you then have to patch up, thus using oodles of diskspace.

    Sorry. Just no. Origin is a pain.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Allowing the unwashed masses to tag game genres is the worst idea Valve has had so far in relation to the Steam client.

    For example, Hydrophobia Prophecy is not a goddamned strategy title, nor is Grand Theft Auto IV in any way, shape, or form an rpg. But the clueless dipwads that make up the majority of Steam's userbase have tagged them as such.

    All this has done is make searching via genre a pathetic waste of time.

     

    Or maybe you just think that the definition of things in your head is the absolute truth, and aren't willing to move with the times.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • NaowutNaowut Member UncommonPosts: 663

    Didnt watch the video but I think the OP is on about 10 year old games that are on the coming soon list and listed as this years games. 

    Valid point IMO.

     

    P.S I have over 700 games so no hate, just truth.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

     

    People can come up with all kinds of crazy reasons why steam is bad but it will never change why it's a success. What you've posted is exactly why steam is popular among it's users.
  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,298
    I love steam, In my opinion is the best thing that ever happened to pc gaming.
     



  • ElmberryElmberry Member UncommonPosts: 195
    Originally posted by Naowut

    Didnt watch the video but I think the OP is on about 10 year old games that are on the coming soon list and listed as this years games. 

    Valid point IMO.

     

    P.S I have over 700 games so no hate, just truth.

    I am talking about "New Releases" slide on the front page and it's about the 10 to 20 year old games as Valve has tagged them with release date 2014. But I guess same missleading information is on all slides (including coming soon slide). :) Check out the video with TB at 5:20 and forward. The funny part starts there. TB has edited the front page with the real release date in the video. :)

     

  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 4,252

    I have never had a problem with steam and some internet clown looking for youtube clicks will never stop me from using it.

     

    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

    +1 

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,392
    Originally posted by Asheram

    I have never had a problem with steam and some internet clown looking for youtube clicks will never stop me from using it.

    First off, I love Steam.

    Second, just be course I love Steam does not mean TB does not have valid point in some of his critisism. I for one would love to be able to sort away re-releases in the way he describes.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Allowing the unwashed masses to tag game genres is the worst idea Valve has had so far in relation to the Steam client.

    For example, Hydrophobia Prophecy is not a goddamned strategy title, nor is Grand Theft Auto IV in any way, shape, or form an rpg. But the clueless dipwads that make up the majority of Steam's userbase have tagged them as such.

    All this has done is make searching via genre a pathetic waste of time.

    Or maybe you just think that the definition of things in your head is the absolute truth, and aren't willing to move with the times.

    Your first post is pretty much how I use Steam and so do the other two guys in the office. We will talk about some new indie release sometimes, but mostly we use Steam to find sales, or in my case, use community addons and mods. For example, using mods with Torchlight 2 is so much easier with Steam than without. Keeping my indie games updated (like Planet Explorers) is much easier with Steam than without.

    The tagging system is brilliant. I don't need the tags to be 100% accurate. I need them to give me ideas and point me to titles I may be interested in. For example, if I just use a simple tag search for jrpg I come up with a big list of games that may or may not be true JRPG titles, but they have a lot in common with them. I don't think a lot of games can so easily be shoved into neat little boxes. Tags, for me, give me an idea of flavors and aspects the game might have or appeal to games with those sorts of characteristics.

    Steam works great for that. Hopefully other platforms will emerge, or existing platforms like PS+ will evolve, to provide some competition so Valve feels some pressure to keep improving their service.

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,343
    Steam sells games? Who knew? I think I installed it for some single player title I bought but didn't really play. (Skyrim?)

    Back to playing ESO and EVE.

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you ask Steam users, "What is Steam good for?"  The answer is likely to be, "Games that are on sale."  So when games go on sale, Steam pushes them to the front page and makes sure people know that the games are on sale.  To me, this is ideal.  I don't need help keeping track of mainstream new releases.  I know when they are coming out.  I need to know when games that I might be interested in are going on sale.  Another thing I need to know about are Indie games that I might otherwise not know about.  Steam seems pretty good about pushing those games to the front page where I can see them.  I won't say Steam is perfect, but as a consumer, I find what they are doing nearly ideal for my shopping preferences.

    and over time this self tagging system will make it easier to find games then any other method currently out there.

    So I could look for indie, submarine simulation, skill based...

    for example

    Allowing the unwashed masses to tag game genres is the worst idea Valve has had so far in relation to the Steam client.

    For example, Hydrophobia Prophecy is not a goddamned strategy title, nor is Grand Theft Auto IV in any way, shape, or form an rpg. But the clueless dipwads that make up the majority of Steam's userbase have tagged them as such.

    All this has done is make searching via genre a pathetic waste of time.

    Or maybe you just think that the definition of things in your head is the absolute truth, and aren't willing to move with the times.

    Your first post is pretty much how I use Steam and so do the other two guys in the office. We will talk about some new indie release sometimes, but mostly we use Steam to find sales, or in my case, use community addons and mods. For example, using mods with Torchlight 2 is so much easier with Steam than without. Keeping my indie games updated (like Planet Explorers) is much easier with Steam than without.

    The tagging system is brilliant. I don't need the tags to be 100% accurate. I need them to give me ideas and point me to titles I may be interested in. For example, if I just use a simple tag search for jrpg I come up with a big list of games that may or may not be true JRPG titles, but they have a lot in common with them. I don't think a lot of games can so easily be shoved into neat little boxes. Tags, for me, give me an idea of flavors and aspects the game might have or appeal to games with those sorts of characteristics.

    Steam works great for that. Hopefully other platforms will emerge, or existing platforms like PS+ will evolve, to provide some competition so Valve feels some pressure to keep improving their service.

     

    I'll be honest, this whole "tags" thing is news to me.  It sounds like it could be really cool though.  If I play a game, then I can search for other games with the same tags as the game I'm playing, something like that, yes?  It's not that important to me what the tags are supposed to mean, only that they lead me to the games that I like to play.

     

    I'm of two minds about competition.  I tried EA's digital marketing platform and my experience was horrible.  I wish I had waited to buy the game on Steam.  But if someone else could come up with something worthwhile, then yes, competition is generally a good thing.  If nothing else, it's prompted them to build that cool new controller. :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Elmberry
    Originally posted by Naowut

    Didnt watch the video but I think the OP is on about 10 year old games that are on the coming soon list and listed as this years games. 

    Valid point IMO.

     

    P.S I have over 700 games so no hate, just truth.

    I am talking about "New Releases" slide on the front page and it's about the 10 to 20 year old games as Valve has tagged them with release date 2014. But I guess same missleading information is on all slides (including coming soon slide). :) Check out the video with TB at 5:20 and forward. The funny part starts there. TB has edited the front page with the real release date in the video. :)

     

    you are likely seeing a release date for a MOD of a game that has been out for 10 years.

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Your first post is pretty much how I use Steam and so do the other two guys in the office. We will talk about some new indie release sometimes, but mostly we use Steam to find sales, or in my case, use community addons and mods. For example, using mods with Torchlight 2 is so much easier with Steam than without. Keeping my indie games updated (like Planet Explorers) is much easier with Steam than without.

    The tagging system is brilliant. I don't need the tags to be 100% accurate. I need them to give me ideas and point me to titles I may be interested in. For example, if I just use a simple tag search for jrpg I come up with a big list of games that may or may not be true JRPG titles, but they have a lot in common with them. I don't think a lot of games can so easily be shoved into neat little boxes. Tags, for me, give me an idea of flavors and aspects the game might have or appeal to games with those sorts of characteristics.

    Steam works great for that. Hopefully other platforms will emerge, or existing platforms like PS+ will evolve, to provide some competition so Valve feels some pressure to keep improving their service.

    I'll be honest, this whole "tags" thing is news to me.  It sounds like it could be really cool though.  If I play a game, then I can search for other games with the same tags as the game I'm playing, something like that, yes?  It's not that important to me what the tags are supposed to mean, only that they lead me to the games that I like to play.

    I'm of two minds about competition.  I tried EA's digital marketing platform and my experience was horrible.  I wish I had waited to buy the game on Steam.  But if someone else could come up with something worthwhile, then yes, competition is generally a good thing.  If nothing else, it's prompted them to build that cool new controller. :-)

    I'm pretty new to the tagging system too. I've not added any tags, but I've noticed them on the games I've looked at and have used them in search to find games with similar appeal. It's sort of mixed. Sometimes the tags don't make sense to me and I don't agree with the label, but other times they have led me to games I was interested in. Really it's just a way they ascribe metadata to a particular game, sort of how we like to classify different mmos here. It seems like popular tags get weighted higher than unpopular tags, but I'm not sure if that was random luck or intentional programming.

    I've not used Origin, but I do use some other publisher platforms. They are no competition to Steam really, but I think adoption towards this sort of thing could prompt competition to make each better. It's still early to really know how they will be used, accepted, or evolve.

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Elmberry

    Total Biscuit talks about how Valve is missleading people about release dates and other things which could be much better. New titles are "drowned" by the amount of old ones on the front page of steam.

     And if the new games were the spotlight, the complaint would be that Steam is getting paid by AAA devs to keep the indies down. 

    Total Biscuit knows which strings to pull to get gamer riled (and more importantly, CLICKING). This is a good example of it. 

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  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741

    People still go to TB? Get with the times.

     

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  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    I love steam. Total Biscuit should stick to what he does best - making mediocre game review videos.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with steam. I constantly get new updates about new game releases. You can easily see all the recent new releases and all upcoming games in the respective sections. Also pretty much all big releases I can think of have featured on the front steam page on their release date. Steam works just fine and it offers probably some of the best deals in the industry. It has come to a point that I will never buy a game that is available on steam from elsewhere. I love to have all my games in one place.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

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