CCP's response to the scammer incident

Distopia

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by sugarbear78664
Teala you are really starting to sound as you are Erotica 1 or you have a personel relationship with Erotica 1. I can agree with you that the person that got scammed has some blame. But, in all your threads I have read, You make it sound as Erotica 1 did nothing wrong. If Erotica 1 did nothing wrong in the rules of the game... thats one point. But as a human being this scam should be sicking to me, you and others. I wont debate, most peoples conscience would never let them do this to another person.

That's the thick of it, to me.  These people making the statement, "maybe Erotica 1 is a great guy IRL!"...

No.

It's one thing to blow up somebody else's ship, or beat them in PvP.  It's completely another thing to humiliate them IRL, post the audio and then brag about it.

Supporters of this A-hole keep making this about the scam.  While that's pretty bad, it barely scratches the surface of what this is about.  And it's DEFINITELY NOT about having sympathy for the idiot that agreed to it, which is why said idiot is so upset that this incident has exploded in the media.  For them, it's like the world discovering NSA overreach by the NSA posting the dude's porn search history. 

Ultimately, this is about what Erotica 1 FELT the reaction would be from the Eve community.  He recorded the whole session and thought the Eve community would be all for it.  Maybe it is.  But it looks like CCP isn't comfortable with that.

Some of us would record a song, or an interview, or a group discussion about something of common interest.  Erotica 1 dismantled a human being and thought that that was post-worthy.  Funny, funny stuff.

^ Well said^

seafirex

Originally posted by Teala

So I am dumbfounded, why was the thread I started locked without an explanation?  Because I have a differing opinion on this whole mess?

I have a few points I would like to make though on this whole subject.

1)  Sohkar that guy that was scammed(that everyone feels sorry for) had fallen for this scam before, not once, not twice, but three times!

2) This was his conscious choice to participate.  Nobody twisted his arm.  Nobody "forced him".   He had the opportunity to disengage from the scam game at any time...any time.   He chose to continue..."he" played along.   That was "his" choice.   To say otherwise means you think he is incapable of making a judgement call and absolve him of any wrong doing in this manner.

3) The person behind Erotica1 violated no rule in the Eula when performing the scam - none.   If you think they did, point out which one.

4)  The only person that violated the Eula actually was the person that was scammed.  He violated it on multiple occasions.   They used racial attacks.  They threatened a person with bodily harm.  They threatened a persons family member with death.  All these violated the terms of EVE's Eula.  

5) It is now known that the CSM that started this by writing his article has a personal issue with the player Erotica1.   This is now in the open.   They started this whole mess for one reason.  To get a player banned.  

Who got banned?  Erotica 1

So tell me, where is the justice in that? 

Dude i don't know why you defend people like that, i listend to the recording and read the article also and i feel very bad calling myself a gamer now because of it. In real life this is not tolerated and in eve a game that is on a totally different level then others it should not be tolarated at all. 

EULA or TOS i am sure it states you can't humiliate people, be racist againt them etc.. and that is exactly what the dude did there to the poor guy. It is also recorded and now posted all over the web. CCP don't support this kind of behavior i am sure so sorry buddy but i don't feel bad at all to what happend to Erotica 1 . Good for CCP to kick that douche bag out of there.

Edit : regarding the scamming like the original poster of the article stated when he came out with this he stated himself he knew that it was wrong but that Erotica 1 went too far with the scam to be a douche bag to the guy. and it is true. there is a fine line between scam and humiliate someone or be racist against them. And this time they did both.

They use the excuse he could not talk english properly + sleep deprevation, etc. to get what they wanted.  read the article and listend to the recording , scamming someone in-game should not go that far. It is not even something new by the way that tactic is use in multiple area in real life against offenders or the one you want to take the blame for something, read up about it!!! It is also illegal to use in real life.

Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

 

Nope, I do not feel sorry for the so called victim, not one bit.   Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.  He willingly participated in this.   He chose to do it.  Nobody twisted his arm at all.   His greed made him do it.   It really is that simple and I am dumbstruck that anyone thinks differently.   In fact lets absolve the guy of any wrong doing...let's just remove his own responsibility from this...it is all Erotica 1's fault.  

Greed of a player is what made the person that got scammed do this.   Greed.

I don't give a damn about what occurred after.  The player of Sohkar is a grown adult.   Are you telling me they are not capable of making a sound judgment?  That he couldn't just sign off from the game at any time and stop participating once they they had been scammed?   So where do you draw the line on personal responsibility for ones own actions?   Seriously.   I do not understand some of you people at all.  

You know why Sohkar didn't stop - GREED.

So let's blame Erotica 1 because this player was greedy.  Yep...it's all Erotica 1's fault.

 

Am I Erotica 1.  Nope.   Don't even know the player behind the character.  

Do I like scammers?  Nope...don't  care for the lot at all.  In fact all my EVE toons have the scammers that frequent Jita and other trade hubs blocked.

Do I think what Erotica one did was mean...well if asking someone to sing a song is mean or to recite a few lines of some make believe in game corp charter is mean then this world is a really screwed up place.

What I find reprehensible is the behavior of the guy that was scammed.   That is abhorrent!

 

This is exactly what I was saying earlier, what you're taking issue with is cause and effect. THe effect was Sohkar flipping out, the cause was someone pressing buttons for giggles. You can blame Sohkar all you want for falling for a scam, you can blame him for crossing a line as well in his retort. Yet you're giving this other player a complete pass. when it's his/her behavior that leads to this, and as far as CCP is concerned, it's a PR nightmare.

That's not even going into how far Erotica took this, we've all seen a person rage due to the littlest things , when it is nothing personal, and not about shame. This is all about shame, that's the larger motive, that's taking things beyond the game and making it personal. No developer wants players doing that, many players don't want them doing it either. It's horrible for the game as well as community.

Should the other guy be punished as well? Maybe. However this is what I tried pointing out earlier in the thread. What Sohkar did was reactionary, in the heat of the moment, that's far more understandable than doing what Erotica did for fun.

Also.. did you just call the victim greedy, in a scamming scenario? Really?

Teala

Originally posted by seafirex

Originally posted by Teala

So I am dumbfounded, why was the thread I started locked without an explanation?  Because I have a differing opinion on this whole mess?

I have a few points I would like to make though on this whole subject.

1)  Sohkar that guy that was scammed(that everyone feels sorry for) had fallen for this scam before, not once, not twice, but three times!

2) This was his conscious choice to participate.  Nobody twisted his arm.  Nobody "forced him".   He had the opportunity to disengage from the scam game at any time...any time.   He chose to continue..."he" played along.   That was "his" choice.   To say otherwise means you think he is incapable of making a judgement call and absolve him of any wrong doing in this manner.

3) The person behind Erotica1 violated no rule in the Eula when performing the scam - none.   If you think they did, point out which one.

4)  The only person that violated the Eula actually was the person that was scammed.  He violated it on multiple occasions.   They used racial attacks.  They threatened a person with bodily harm.  They threatened a persons family member with death.  All these violated the terms of EVE's Eula.  

5) It is now known that the CSM that started this by writing his article has a personal issue with the player Erotica1.   This is now in the open.   They started this whole mess for one reason.  To get a player banned.  

Who got banned?  Erotica 1

So tell me, where is the justice in that? 

Dude i don't know why you defend people like that, i listend to the recording and read the article also and i feel very bad calling myself a gamer now because of it. In real life this is not tolerated and in eve a game that is on a totally different level then others it should not be tolarated at all. 

EULA or TOS i am sure it states you can't humiliate people, be racist againt them etc.. and that is exactly what the dude did there to the poor guy. It is also recorded and now posted all over the web. CCP don't support this kind of behavior i am sure so sorry buddy but i don't feel bad at all to what happend to Erotica 1 . Good for CCP to kick that douche bag out of there.

You sure you listened to the recording, because the only person using racist remarks was the person that was scammed.  That is a violation of EVE's EULA.   In fact Erotica 1 never raised their voice once, never cussed...even tried to get the guy to calm down.    Instead that guy got more pissed, slammed his keyboard down repeatedly, started really getting upset and going into a further racist tirade and then threatened to hurt Erotica 1 and his mother.  

I don't care who you are, that was abhorrent.  This guy that plays Sohkar...he could have left the game at any time - but he was greedy. He chose to keep playing - not one person twisted his arm.   He is a grown adult and should be capable of making proper decisions on his own.  He chose to stay.  But hey, I guess people are not accountable for their own action and responsibilities any longer.  Go ahead and defend him.   I'll never do that.  

 

Teala

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

 

Nope, I do not feel sorry for the so called victim, not one bit.   Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.  He willingly participated in this.   He chose to do it.  Nobody twisted his arm at all.   His greed made him do it.   It really is that simple and I am dumbstruck that anyone thinks differently.   In fact lets absolve the guy of any wrong doing...let's just remove his own responsibility from this...it is all Erotica 1's fault.  

Greed of a player is what made the person that got scammed do this.   Greed.

I don't give a damn about what occurred after.  The player of Sohkar is a grown adult.   Are you telling me they are not capable of making a sound judgment?  That he couldn't just sign off from the game at any time and stop participating once they they had been scammed?   So where do you draw the line on personal responsibility for ones own actions?   Seriously.   I do not understand some of you people at all.  

You know why Sohkar didn't stop - GREED.

So let's blame Erotica 1 because this player was greedy.  Yep...it's all Erotica 1's fault.

 

Am I Erotica 1.  Nope.   Don't even know the player behind the character.  

Do I like scammers?  Nope...don't  care for the lot at all.  In fact all my EVE toons have the scammers that frequent Jita and other trade hubs blocked.

Do I think what Erotica one did was mean...well if asking someone to sing a song is mean or to recite a few lines of some make believe in game corp charter is mean then this world is a really screwed up place.

What I find reprehensible is the behavior of the guy that was scammed.   That is abhorrent!

 

This is exactly what I was saying earlier, what you're taking issue with is cause and effect. THe effect was Sohkar flipping out, the cause was someone pressing buttons for giggles. You can blame Sohkar all you want for falling for a scam, you can blame him for crossing a line as well in his retort. Yet you're giving this other player a complete pass. when it's his/her behavior that leads to this, and as far as CCP is concerned, it's a PR nightmare.

That's not even going into how far Erotica took this, we've all seen a person rage due to the littlest things , when it is nothing personal, and not about shame. This is all about shame, that's the larger motive, that's taking things beyond the game and making it personal. No developer wants players doing that, many players don't want them doing it either. It's horrible for the game as well as community.

Should the other guy be punished as well? Maybe. However this is what I tried pointing out earlier in the thread. What Sohkar did was reactionary, in the heat of the moment, that's far more understandable than doing what Erotica did for fun.

Also.. did you just call the victim greedy, in a scamming scenario? Really?

Sohkar is an adult - is he not capable of controlling the situation and just "sign" off?   Are we to just give him a free pass because he chose to stay?   Where is his responsibility in all this mess?   He stayed because of GREED.   You can all try to spin this all you like...it will not change the fact that this guy chose to participate.    And you keep candy coating his racist tirade, his threats to do bodily harm, his threats to kill another human being...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

 

Nope, I do not feel sorry for the so called victim, not one bit.   Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.  He willingly participated in this.   He chose to do it.  Nobody twisted his arm at all.   His greed made him do it.   It really is that simple and I am dumbstruck that anyone thinks differently.   In fact lets absolve the guy of any wrong doing...let's just remove his own responsibility from this...it is all Erotica 1's fault.  

Greed of a player is what made the person that got scammed do this.   Greed.

I don't give a damn about what occurred after.  The player of Sohkar is a grown adult.   Are you telling me they are not capable of making a sound judgment?  That he couldn't just sign off from the game at any time and stop participating once they they had been scammed?   So where do you draw the line on personal responsibility for ones own actions?   Seriously.   I do not understand some of you people at all.  

You know why Sohkar didn't stop - GREED.

So let's blame Erotica 1 because this player was greedy.  Yep...it's all Erotica 1's fault.

 

Am I Erotica 1.  Nope.   Don't even know the player behind the character.  

Do I like scammers?  Nope...don't  care for the lot at all.  In fact all my EVE toons have the scammers that frequent Jita and other trade hubs blocked.

Do I think what Erotica one did was mean...well if asking someone to sing a song is mean or to recite a few lines of some make believe in game corp charter is mean then this world is a really screwed up place.

What I find reprehensible is the behavior of the guy that was scammed.   That is abhorrent!

 

This is exactly what I was saying earlier, what you're taking issue with is cause and effect. THe effect was Sohkar flipping out, the cause was someone pressing buttons for giggles. You can blame Sohkar all you want for falling for a scam, you can blame him for crossing a line as well in his retort. Yet you're giving this other player a complete pass. when it's his/her behavior that leads to this, and as far as CCP is concerned, it's a PR nightmare.

That's not even going into how far Erotica took this, we've all seen a person rage due to the littlest things , when it is nothing personal, and not about shame. This is all about shame, that's the larger motive, that's taking things beyond the game and making it personal. No developer wants players doing that, many players don't want them doing it either. It's horrible for the game as well as community.

Should the other guy be punished as well? Maybe. However this is what I tried pointing out earlier in the thread. What Sohkar did was reactionary, in the heat of the moment, that's far more understandable than doing what Erotica did for fun.

Also.. did you just call the victim greedy, in a scamming scenario? Really?

Sohkar is an adult - is he not capable of controlling the situation and just "sign" off?   Are we to just give him a free pass because he chose to stay?   Where is his responsibility in all this mess?   He stayed because of GREED.   You can all try to spin this all you like...it will not change the fact that this guy chose to participate.    And you keep candy coating his racist tirade, his threats to do bodily harm, his threats to kill another human being...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

DIdn't  I just agree that he may deserve punishment as well?

Teala

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

 

Nope, I do not feel sorry for the so called victim, not one bit.   Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.  He willingly participated in this.   He chose to do it.  Nobody twisted his arm at all.   His greed made him do it.   It really is that simple and I am dumbstruck that anyone thinks differently.   In fact lets absolve the guy of any wrong doing...let's just remove his own responsibility from this...it is all Erotica 1's fault.  

Greed of a player is what made the person that got scammed do this.   Greed.

I don't give a damn about what occurred after.  The player of Sohkar is a grown adult.   Are you telling me they are not capable of making a sound judgment?  That he couldn't just sign off from the game at any time and stop participating once they they had been scammed?   So where do you draw the line on personal responsibility for ones own actions?   Seriously.   I do not understand some of you people at all.  

You know why Sohkar didn't stop - GREED.

So let's blame Erotica 1 because this player was greedy.  Yep...it's all Erotica 1's fault.

 

Am I Erotica 1.  Nope.   Don't even know the player behind the character.  

Do I like scammers?  Nope...don't  care for the lot at all.  In fact all my EVE toons have the scammers that frequent Jita and other trade hubs blocked.

Do I think what Erotica one did was mean...well if asking someone to sing a song is mean or to recite a few lines of some make believe in game corp charter is mean then this world is a really screwed up place.

What I find reprehensible is the behavior of the guy that was scammed.   That is abhorrent!

 

This is exactly what I was saying earlier, what you're taking issue with is cause and effect. THe effect was Sohkar flipping out, the cause was someone pressing buttons for giggles. You can blame Sohkar all you want for falling for a scam, you can blame him for crossing a line as well in his retort. Yet you're giving this other player a complete pass. when it's his/her behavior that leads to this, and as far as CCP is concerned, it's a PR nightmare.

That's not even going into how far Erotica took this, we've all seen a person rage due to the littlest things , when it is nothing personal, and not about shame. This is all about shame, that's the larger motive, that's taking things beyond the game and making it personal. No developer wants players doing that, many players don't want them doing it either. It's horrible for the game as well as community.

Should the other guy be punished as well? Maybe. However this is what I tried pointing out earlier in the thread. What Sohkar did was reactionary, in the heat of the moment, that's far more understandable than doing what Erotica did for fun.

Also.. did you just call the victim greedy, in a scamming scenario? Really?

Sohkar is an adult - is he not capable of controlling the situation and just "sign" off?   Are we to just give him a free pass because he chose to stay?   Where is his responsibility in all this mess?   He stayed because of GREED.   You can all try to spin this all you like...it will not change the fact that this guy chose to participate.    And you keep candy coating his racist tirade, his threats to do bodily harm, his threats to kill another human being...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

DIdn't  I just agree that he may deserve punishment as well?

Nope...I don't see that Erotica 1 did anything wrong.   I did see a another person though play along with them because he thought he was going to get a lot of ISK - although in his own words he knew he had been scammed.   Why he continued to play is because of his greed.   Plain and simple. 

sugarbear78664

Teala? as I have read all your post and how i appreciate your obvious passion on this subject. I have to ask? In your eyes , Erotica 1 did nothing wrong, zero, all is fair game ...in a game. ?

LeGrosGamer

 There was a time long long ago where I respected EVE and CCP, but the in game scams, piracy and back stabbing is so high that you can't even bother trying to do something serious like creating a nice solid guild, or in this instance a corporation.  But selling your account or buying ISK off a web site is illegal.  Go figure.

  They encourage scams and piracy in game BUT they don't want real life harassment? I don't know, if you trusted a few people for a few years and are in a big alliance and those few people decide to steal everything and disband the alliance how would that make people react?   CCP aren't too bright and their future is pretty grim.   Something got to give, you can't expect people to behave when scams are allowed 24/7.  It's like going to bank and robbing it over and over but as long as you don't swear and don't make any life threatening moves, like using a nerf gun insted of a real gun, you'll be fine.   You're pathetic CCP. 

Teala

Originally posted by sugarbear78664
Teala? as I have read all your post and how i appreciate your obvious passion on this subject. I have to ask? In your eyes , Erotica 1 did nothing wrong, zero, all is fair game ...in a game. ?

Nope...Erotica 1, he is a known scammer.   Sohkar had been scammed by him previously.   He decided to do it more than once.  He got caught in a bigger scam.   He lost everything.   He played...because of his greed.   I heard nothing on Erotica 1's recording other than some guy fall for a scam, realized he screwed up, and then went all bat*&^%crazy because he got scammed.    I heard no abuse, no torture, no harassment.   But I did hear a lot of racial slurs, cussing, smashing of stuff, calling people names, threatening people and their family members from the guy that got scammed.    I don't feel sorry for him one bit.

Vaross

The other thread was already locked for flaming and trolling and this one looks to be going the same way.  Locking it too.