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CCP's response to the scammer incident
Caldicot
Member UncommonPosts: 455
in EVE Online
http://evenews24.com/2014/03/28/dev-post-an-announcement-regarding-real-life-harassment/
Seems a bit vague but my bet is that the scammers will be banned soon if they haven't already been.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
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Comments
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/03/erotica-1-banned-from-eve-acquires.html
huhu
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Good on CCP IMO. Gotta say though, reading through that thread hurt my brain... IS that really the average attitude of the EVE player? All I can say is I hope those people stay in EVE and don't move to new sandbox games as more come along. The community makes such a game, if that's your community outlook, that's gonna be one shitty ass game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Power + hidden identity + victims = douche bag in 90% of the cases in one way or another.
That said I hope they hold off from excessive bans because while scammers are detrimental if they go to the point of Erotica 1 some aren't assholes in real life and do not go out to hurt people in real life, merely try to earn something for nothing as efficiently as possible.
Not sure what thread you were reading because, aside from a few obvious trolls, all I read were some good discussions about CCP giving no definite guidelines as to what will get you banned and where the "fine line" between in game politics and harassment lies. It is easy to beat on the EvE community and jump on the EvE hate-train. I would advice that people resist the urge and look beyond this incident to the possible ramifications of a gaming company banning people for behavior occurring off-game.
And before the easily indignant start jumping down my throat again: no one here or on that thread (except for the obvious trolls) is excusing the behavior. Try to look past the behavior and the bigger picture.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I understand there's a huge community in EVE who like to portray the bad guy. I have no problem with that, this reflects nothing on their actual character in RL.. so I agree with what you're saying, there's just a fine line between that and being abusive to others. I also understand in the heat of the moment those lines can become blurred. That's also understandable.
However in this case, the person knew exactly what they were doing. This wasn't a case of "I'm a bad guy in the game" this was a case of "I'm gonna get my jollies by humiliating people for the world to see". There's a huge difference, one is about fun and roleplay, the other is toxic and borderline sadistic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You should go chat with Malcanis then he's active in the Eve-O forums in that thread and just addressed it. It's been said multiple times by multiple CSM members. Only reason people want to know where it is, is so that they can squat on it or circumvent it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4407576#post4407576 Helped you out just one instance that explained it.
I saw quite a few people supporting Erotica on this in that thread, all I'm saying is I really hope this type of player doesn't infect other games. I've played plenty of sandboxes, I"ve met plenty of A-holes, yet I've never seen anything like this, or people supporting it in other communities.
As an example any scammer in SWG pre-cu was immediately identified and shunned by the community at large ( even the "evil" ones took a stand against it). It wasn't considered a "legit" playstyle by the community at large, if they didn't even condone that, how would such a community feel about these individuals?
I also want to point out that I posed a question there, I didn't make a definitive statement on whether that was the average attitude of the Eve Player..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So I am dumbfounded, why was the thread I started locked without an explanation? Because I have a differing opinion on this whole mess?
I have a few points I would like to make though on this whole subject.
1) Sohkar that guy that was scammed(that everyone feels sorry for) had fallen for this scam before, not once, not twice, but three times!
2) This was his conscious choice to participate. Nobody twisted his arm. Nobody "forced him". He had the opportunity to disengage from the scam game at any time...any time. He chose to continue..."he" played along. That was "his" choice. To say otherwise means you think he is incapable of making a judgement call and absolve him of any wrong doing in this manner.
3) The person behind Erotica1 violated no rule in the Eula when performing the scam - none. If you think they did, point out which one.
4) The only person that violated the Eula actually was the person that was scammed. He violated it on multiple occasions. They used racial attacks. They threatened a person with bodily harm. They threatened a persons family member with death. All these violated the terms of EVE's Eula.
5) It is now known that the CSM that started this by writing his article has a personal issue with the player Erotica1. This is now in the open. They started this whole mess for one reason. To get a player banned.
Who got banned? Erotica 1
So tell me, where is the justice in that?
Another Malcanis post for those that don't want to dig through the thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4407392#post4407392
Well , didn't see that coming.
This could end up being very interesting.
Erotica1 is not banned it was another scam to get people to buy shares. Some ponzi scheme. They are trying to get people to invest ISK in that james315 guy.
The scam is not against the rules but what happened where they humiliated him crossed the line. I think Sohkar also did not break any rules since what he said was also in that private chat which was later publicized. He did not do it in game. So if what Erotica did was not in game then why should what Sohkar said the racial slurs and death threats outside of the game in private and without him knowing or consenting publicized be a violation of the EULA. It should apply equally to both Erotica1 and Sohkar.
What they put him through and his speech impediment thing was really low . Terrible thing to do. The scam was nothing no one cares about that it was the subsequent thing that was quite horrible. If you cannot understand that or empathize you're a lost cause.
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Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Nope, I do not feel sorry for the so called victim, not one bit. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble. He willingly participated in this. He chose to do it. Nobody twisted his arm at all. His greed made him do it. It really is that simple and I am dumbstruck that anyone thinks differently. In fact lets absolve the guy of any wrong doing...let's just remove his own responsibility from this...it is all Erotica 1's fault.
Greed of a player is what made the person that got scammed do this. Greed.
I don't give a damn about what occurred after. The player of Sohkar is a grown adult. Are you telling me they are not capable of making a sound judgment? That he couldn't just sign off from the game at any time and stop participating once they they had been scammed? So where do you draw the line on personal responsibility for ones own actions? Seriously. I do not understand some of you people at all.
You know why Sohkar didn't stop - GREED.
So let's blame Erotica 1 because this player was greedy. Yep...it's all Erotica 1's fault.
Am I Erotica 1. Nope. Don't even know the player behind the character.
Do I like scammers? Nope...don't care for the lot at all. In fact all my EVE toons have the scammers that frequent Jita and other trade hubs blocked.
Do I think what Erotica one did was mean...well if asking someone to sing a song is mean or to recite a few lines of some make believe in game corp charter is mean then this world is a really screwed up place.
What I find reprehensible is the behavior of the guy that was scammed. That is abhorrent!
Holy crap! Mazes and Monsters! I remember when that came out, saw it on TV when I was a kid. They made it because of the uproar about D&D being about devil worship and stuff. People actually believed that stuff about D&D back then. It's totally laughable now.
Back on track. Wait..what were we talking about?
This could end up being very interesting.
Acutally, Erotica's Bonus room is in game, and just because the chat was in TS, doesn't mean they are not in game...they were all playing the game when this occurred. They used the in game browser and the games tools to pull up songs, and written info...like the dictionary stuff. You can't trade or give things to people out of game. So everything took place in game.
The thread you started was probably something that could have simply been posted in the original thread.
1) What difference does that make? If scamming is bad, then scamming is bad. It doesn't matter how many times it's used on one individual. However, in Eve, scamming isn't bad. It's a cultural norm. This is a moo point. Like a cow's opinion.
2) See #1.
3) See #1
4) Perhaps the people who reviewed the case thought differently. Perhaps they know that given time you can push anyone into behavior they wouldn't normally engage in.
5) They may have a personal issue with the player, but it's the company, CCP, that ultimately controls whether a player gets banned. It doesn't matter if it started with a single CSM.
Why would justice have anything to do with this? I mean, really. Erotica 1 is making the game look bad. That is the only reason they need. Perhaps Erotica 1 was too successful at scamming people, and made too many people angry. There is such a thing as not actually breaking the rules, but still going too far. I've watched players see how close they can get to the line without crossing it just to see how much they could get away with. They wanted to test the game mods and developers, and that doesn't always go well. Sounds like that's what Erotica 1 did.
If they actually got banned.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well, since you kept saying "see #1" and just agreeing that scamming in EVE is the norm and part of it's culture...what is the big stink about then? And don't go off on the tangent that they guy was tortured...that is pure hogwash. See #2!
Well, if you can't see the injustice here, I really can't help you.
I don't recall asking for your help. Thanks anyway?
If Erotica 1 actually was banned, then they did something that CCP found objectionable. It doesn't have to be something that anyone but CCP finds objectionable. I could assume that it has something to do with the statements made by the CCP guy on the Eve forums regarding harassment, but there's no indication that what they said has a direct relation to Erotica 1 possibly getting banned. I offered some possible explanations as to why Erotica 1 might have gotten banned since you seem to be in a bit of a quandary over the matter. Really though, it's CCP's game. The only reason they need is that they want to ban them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Teala, I don't know what kind of forum rage you are on here or what your agenda is, but can you please just walk away from this while your image is not completely irredeemable. The guy you are defending got banned by the company that sets the rules you are praising. That is somewhat the definiton of a contradiction.
Please take a moment to reflect on this and cease the opportunity to become a better person, both on the internet and IRL.
Signing out
o/
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Teala, you have ceased to be a legitimate poster on these forums in my eyes.
It's absolutely sickening, SICKENING, to watch you repeatedly stick up for the human piece of trash known as Erotica 1.
Period.
Well, I'm not going anywhere...
That's the thick of it, to me. These people making the statement, "maybe Erotica 1 is a great guy IRL!"...
No.
It's one thing to blow up somebody else's ship, or beat them in PvP. It's completely another thing to humiliate them IRL, post the audio and then brag about it.
Supporters of this A-hole keep making this about the scam. While that's pretty bad, it barely scratches the surface of what this is about. And it's DEFINITELY NOT about having sympathy for the idiot that agreed to it, which is why said idiot is so upset that this incident has exploded in the media. For them, it's like the world discovering NSA overreach by the NSA posting the dude's porn search history.
Ultimately, this is about what Erotica 1 FELT the reaction would be from the Eve community. He recorded the whole session and thought the Eve community would be all for it. Maybe it is. But it looks like CCP isn't comfortable with that.
Some of us would record a song, or an interview, or a group discussion about something of common interest. Erotica 1 dismantled a human being and thought that that was post-worthy. Funny, funny stuff.
Who exactly is raging? I see a lot of other people raging though...going so far as to tell me to even stop posting. Forget that. I have an opinion...I am allowed to share it. Sorry you don't like it.
Also, I'm not going to reflect on anything of the sort. I am going to sit, enjoy my tea, and have fun reading forums, while playing an MMO.
I'm going to enjoy my Friday evening.