Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. How is making the game more friendly to new users would compromise their vision? That's some shitty design if their vision requires allowing veterans to grief new players.. The vision can user friendliness can surely co-exist with some effort.
It compromises their vision because the game is supposed to be a totally hardcore and unforgiving experience. They want it to be the way it is and they are vehemently opposed to making things any more carebear. It took ages before SV even implemented the newbie-friendly safe zone that now exists in the starter area gardens in Tindrem. I really doubt they would be willing to expand that any further.
Well, first... Characterizing it as "making it more carebear" is to either misunderstand, or mischaracterize the situation. Either way, it rings as unnecessarily condescending.
As I explained before...
Shadowbane - a MMO arguably more brutal and detailed than MO now - allowed players to level up to 20 in an area where there was no PvP allowed at all. It gave them time to learn the game mechanics, to understand how combat worked, navigation, learning skills, etc. And it did this so that when they eventually left the starting area to dive into the actual game, they weren't doing so as brand-new players not knowing their ass from their elbow. The people I knew personally, or knew of, who played Shadowbane were anything but "carebear".
Similarly, AV implemented a starting area allowing new players to learn the ins-and-outs of the game without having to worry about someone taking advantage of their inexperience. This has not hindered people from going on to join guilds, PvP, get into clan wars and such beyond those starting areas. Difference is, players decide when they're ready to take that step.
Lineage 2 was the least forgiving of the three for new players, and threw you out of the bird's nest rather quickly... although it provided a good degree of protection around cities/towns, and complete protection within cities/towns. L2's players actively helped in making the new player experience a more enjoyable and productive one by personally dealing with griefers, and taking new players under their wing to help them get going. Having played Lineage 2 for over 4 years, back when it was at its harshest, I can tell you unequivocally that there was nothing "carebear" about the people in that game.
And so forth... Point is, there is nothing "carebear" about giving new players a chance to learn the game before throwing them head first into the deep end.
As for "compromising their vision". Call me crazy, but a compromise that would actually result in a more positive first experience for new players, potentially encouraging them to stick with the game longer is the kind of compromise SV, and its players, should be welcoming. Not all compromise is bad.
However, if what you say is true, and they're that inflexible with it.. Well, then it's to their detriment. They're further limiting an already limited potential playerbase. Seems rather counter-intuitive to me.
There is simply no indication that giving new players a bit more space to get their bearings before they become open season for anyone who wishes to prey on them would be at all harmful to the game. In fact, the exact opposite has proven to be the case with at least 3 such MMOs I've personally played.
Regardless, it seems to me that making a larger safe newbie area will just lead to people not understanding what the game really is once they step outside it. People will not be prepared at all for the harsh reality of Nave if they aren't introduced to it right away. And when they do eventually leave the expanded newbie area and are immediately killed, we'll be right back to where we are now - people complaining on the forums.
So, you've gone from agreeing with me that a better introduction for new players would be a good thing, to dismissing me as "someone complaining on the forums". And this after offering assistance. Interesting twist there. Were you in an unusually generous mood with your last post or something?
As for implementing such a thing resulting in players not being aware of what they're getting into when they leave the safe areas... Come on, you don't seriously believe that, do you? For one, there is simply no evidence supporting that. For another, the examples I gave above have shown, quite clearly, that the opposite is true.
Players being more informed and better prepared before jumping into the fray (or being dragged into it, as it were) is a good thing. Maybe it's not for those who enjoy spending their time preying on the new and clueless... but they shouldn't be the ones the game is designed for.
I think you misunderstand me. I personally agree with you and would have made a more fleshed out starting experience that is easier on new players. Unfortunately I am not in charge of the game and have no power over its development. If I were, I would have done a few things differently to make the game more friendly to other playstyles.
I'm only saying that I have read enough direct posts from the developers to say that they don't want to make the game less harsh for the reasons I have already mentioned. Heinrick is an old UO vet from the old days when that game was just as harsh as MO is now. He thought that was the best time in all of MMO gaming and wanted to replicate that in his game. A lot of people obviously don't like the game's design, but there is a small niche of us who do.
I think you misunderstand me. I personally agree with you and would have made a more fleshed out starting experience that is easier on new players. Unfortunately I am not in charge of the game and have no power over its development. If I were, I would have done a few things differently to make the game more friendly to other playstyles.
I'm only saying that I have read enough direct posts from the developers to say that they don't want to make the game less harsh for the reasons I have already mentioned. Heinrick is an old UO vet from the old days when that game was just as harsh as MO is now. He thought that was the best time in all of MMO gaming and wanted to replicate that in his game. A lot of people obviously don't like the game's design, but there is a small niche of us who do.
Hmm... Fair enough, then. I misunderstood you.. It seemed like you'd done a near 180 on your point-of-view there lol.
I think they're unnecessarily cutting out a potentially larger (not astronomically higher, mind you... but sufficiently) playerbase by being that stubborn.
I respect Henrick's desire to recapture that old-school feel. There aren't many out there who would and, certainly, I'd love to get back the old Lineage 2, or the old FFXI for my PvE fix.
However, I guess it just surprises me that he would refuse to make what amounts to a new player's very first steps, an insignificant % of their potential "career" in the game, a more positive and enjoyable experience... in the name of making the entire game that way. And I suppose there's a point to be found in his approach... someone who is really determined to dig in and play no matter what will just gnash their teeth and bear it. I just personally think it's needlessly limiting what could be a much healthier playerbase. It would have absolutely no ill effect on the game in the long-term to do so.
Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. How is making the game more friendly to new users would compromise their vision? That's some shitty design if their vision requires allowing veterans to grief new players.. The vision can user friendliness can surely co-exist with some effort.
It compromises their vision because the game is supposed to be a totally hardcore and unforgiving experience. They want it to be the way it is and they are vehemently opposed to making things any more carebear. It took ages before SV even implemented the newbie-friendly safe zone that now exists in the starter area gardens in Tindrem. I really doubt they would be willing to expand that any further.
Regardless, it seems to me that making a larger safe newbie area will just lead to people not understanding what the game really is once they step outside it. People will not be prepared at all for the harsh reality of Nave if they aren't introduced to it right away. And when they do eventually leave the expanded newbie area and are immediately killed, we'll be right back to where we are now - people complaining on the forums.
What is it with you sandbox people, carebear and user-friendly are not synonyms. There are no excuses to not making the game user friendly, whether it's WoW or Darksouls. A good example is the revamp of the MO UI, which made it bit better, but hardly any more carebear. I wouldn't say that extending newie zone is the solution, but better tutorial and integration into the world is.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
-sigh- You people.
lol
Congratulations. You managed to squeeze just about every "PvP Toughguy" cliche' into a single paragraph. You've clearly studied and memorized the handbook. Outstanding. Truly. -cue golfclap-
Having said that, if you're going to take the time to reply to my posts, please show me the courtesy of at least thoroughly reading and comprehending what I've said first? You clearly did neither in this case.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
-sigh- You people.
lol
Congratulations. You managed to squeeze just about every "PvP Toughguy" cliche' into a single paragraph. You've clearly studied and memorized the handbook. Outstanding. Truly. -cue golfclap-
Having said that, if you're going to take the time to reply to my posts, please show me the courtesy of at least thoroughly reading and comprehending what I've said first? You clearly did neither in this case.
So you didnt make a QQ post about some freaking reagents being stolen? Maybe you needed a big shiny arrow pointing you the right way.. srsly, theres a help chat where could ask questions, if your gonna quit on the first road block then this game is probably not for you... I had countless gold stolen as a noob that took me hours to get, until I learned how to deal with them and now theyre a joke...
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
-sigh- You people.
lol
Congratulations. You managed to squeeze just about every "PvP Toughguy" cliche' into a single paragraph. You've clearly studied and memorized the handbook. Outstanding. Truly. -cue golfclap-
Having said that, if you're going to take the time to reply to my posts, please show me the courtesy of at least thoroughly reading and comprehending what I've said first? You clearly did neither in this case.
So you didnt make a QQ post about some freaking reagents being stolen? Maybe you needed a big shiny arrow pointing you the right way.. srsly, theres a help chat where could ask questions, if your gonna quit on the first road block then this game is probably not for you... I had countless gold stolen as a noob that took me hours to get, until I learned how to deal with them and now theyre a joke...
First of all, I'm still in game. I guess you didn't get that far in the thread. You're also still doing the "PvP Tough Guy on the Internet" thing... and it's still not impressive. I've seen far better performances from far bolder individuals. Should work on that.
Secondly.. No. It wasn't a 'QQ' post. You either didn't read what I said, couldn't comprehend the point I was making, completely missed the context, or are simply being dishonest at this point.
To make it simple: I'm explaining why a design like that can tend to push away people who could and in many cases would otherwise stick around. I'm explaining why giving players a bit more time to get their bearings and learn the game can make for a better overall experience than being preyed upon by a bunch of people who clearly have nothing better to do than hassle people who don't know the game well enough to know any better.
You're more than happy to deal with a poorly designed new player experience, whose creators clearly have no idea of the long-term impact those first moments can have on the game's population. Having seen and played better designed new player experiences - which had zero negative effect on the rest of the game, incidentally - I'm not willing to just "settle", and am voicing my views on the subject.
There's a difference between "PvP", and "hassling new players because they're inexperienced, ignorant of pretty much the entire game at that point, and hence, easy targets". Clearly you don't see the difference. That's unfortunate. I do.
But, perhaps your insistence on defending the way it is now hints at ulterior motives. Wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the case. It certainly raises an eyebrow that you, and others like you, would be so against something that could quite likely help the game's population. I'd think someone who likes the game would want to see it do better.
And by the by... I find it far more "carebearish" to spend time in a new player area, specifically targeting brand-new players who don't know any different and whom can do very little in response. That's a person going after the easiest and safest targets they can find in game. There's nothing "hardcore" about it. It's about as brazen as running into a school playground, punching a bunch of kids, then running off. Defending it as though it's some kind of worthy endeavor is just sad.
Well said, TangentPoint! It's an ongoing legacy of MO that the most fervent fanbois lose sight of very obvious design failures. Design failures that they claim define the "vision" of the game. But as you articulately point out do more harm to the game than good.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
-sigh- You people.
lol
Congratulations. You managed to squeeze just about every "PvP Toughguy" cliche' into a single paragraph. You've clearly studied and memorized the handbook. Outstanding. Truly. -cue golfclap-
Having said that, if you're going to take the time to reply to my posts, please show me the courtesy of at least thoroughly reading and comprehending what I've said first? You clearly did neither in this case.
So you didnt make a QQ post about some freaking reagents being stolen? Maybe you needed a big shiny arrow pointing you the right way.. srsly, theres a help chat where could ask questions, if your gonna quit on the first road block then this game is probably not for you... I had countless gold stolen as a noob that took me hours to get, until I learned how to deal with them and now theyre a joke...
First of all, I'm still in game. I guess you didn't get that far in the thread. You're also still doing the "PvP Tough Guy on the Internet" thing... and it's still not impressive. I've seen far better performances from far bolder individuals. Should work on that.
Secondly.. No. It wasn't a 'QQ' post. You either didn't read what I said, couldn't comprehend the point I was making, completely missed the context, or are simply being dishonest at this point.
To make it simple: I'm explaining why a design like that can tend to push away people who could and in many cases would otherwise stick around. I'm explaining why giving players a bit more time to get their bearings and learn the game can make for a better overall experience than being preyed upon by a bunch of people who clearly have nothing better to do than hassle people who don't know the game well enough to know any better.
You're more than happy to deal with a poorly designed new player experience, whose creators clearly have no idea of the long-term impact those first moments can have on the game's population. Having seen and played better designed new player experiences - which had zero negative effect on the rest of the game, incidentally - I'm not willing to just "settle", and am voicing my views on the subject.
There's a difference between "PvP", and "hassling new players because they're inexperienced, ignorant of pretty much the entire game at that point, and hence, easy targets". Clearly you don't see the difference. That's unfortunate. I do.
But, perhaps your insistence on defending the way it is now hints at ulterior motives. Wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the case. It certainly raises an eyebrow that you, and others like you, would be so against something that could quite likely help the game's population. I'd think someone who likes the game would want to see it do better.
And by the by... I find it far more "carebearish" to spend time in a new player area, specifically targeting brand-new players who don't know any different and whom can do very little in response. That's a person going after the easiest and safest targets they can find in game. There's nothing "hardcore" about it. It's about as brazen as running into a school playground, punching a bunch of kids, then running off. Defending it as though it's some kind of worthy endeavor is just sad.
Game, set, match...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 lol, I keep telling people. games like Mortal Online and Darkfall Online are simply occupied by a cesspool of people who seek only to grief. It's not for the casual gamer in the slightest. I use to love the idea behind full loot and hardcore PvP. However, the community that's generated by these games are too foul for me to want to persevere . It's a shame too because there are also several more games coming out to the market that have peaked my interest but follow the same path.
It's not just MO and DO, humanity has become a cesspool.. and yes, I too have stooped to their level.
Well said, TangentPoint! It's an ongoing legacy of MO that the most fervent fanbois lose sight of very obvious design failures. Design failures that they claim define the "vision" of the game. But as you articulately point out do more harm to the game than good.
Indeed... like when they insisted that having no full frontal nudity filter was integral to the design of the game and tried to shout down anyone that asked for the OPTION to turn off naked penises....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So, decided to give MO another try.Log back in. Finish up the newbie tutorials, which are surprisingly short, and am released into Tindrem. Looking around, learning where the vendors are, etc. Next thing I know, I see a notice that someone was attempting to steal from me. Taken off-guard, and not even knowing this could happen to a character barely an hour old in the game, I didn't react fast enough and the thief got away.Now I don't know how many times I'd been pickpocketed, all I know is that when I checked, just about all my newbie items.. everything given to me... was stolen.So here I am. Brand-new player, barely an hour old, barely know what the hell I'm doing yet, how things work, where anything is... and I'm pretty much dead in the water. I can't do anything. I chose to go as a mage, and just about all my reagents were stolen. So I'm a sitting duck and can't do anything. Can't kill anything. Can't afford to buy replacements. Can't do crap. Brilliant job MO devs. Absolutely brilliant. Even the developers of Shadowbane, arguably the harshest open world PvP MMO ever made, had the good sense to realize brand-new players need time to become familiar with the game and its various systems before being released to the full experience. Allowing brand-new players to fall victim to game mechanics they aren't even familiar with, and don't know to be wary of yet, is just plain horrible design.It's clear now why this game has done, and continues to have such poor retention. Sad, because it looks like it has some cool concepts.
Very effective way to learn new players that they shouldnt carry around valubles and ALWAYS be on guard for filthy thives. When I played MO there was one very skilled thief always hanging Tindrem bank, snooping ppls pockets and stealing stuff. The first coupple of times I got really enoyed, then I started to know his patterns and hiding places. After awhile I became really good at "pushing" him at the right time, exposing him for all players and guards. Later it became a sport between the 2 of us and we actually ended up as friends chatting and exchaning experiences and ticks. This I have nothing against since its one if the cool features in MO. Regarding the griefing as blocking mobs and being a jerk, most of them tires of it if you dont get upsrt and start talking smack. Thats the only thing they are after, making you angry. If you learn to ignore them and get some game time you ll run into them soone or later outside the city walls.
Originally posted by deathshroud not everyone who plays mo cares about the longevity of the game
in mo you can make a fully ready combat char in about 3 days, a veteran can do it in less than 2. you can earn 8g in 10 minutes in tindrem killing bandits enough to buy a weapon every 10 minutes.
Grind is something mo doesnt have
The days of chopping wood or mining ore as the only means of making gold in mo are long gone.
Caring about the longevity of MO is like caring about the longevity of a meth head: pointless unless the object of that caring were to spend about three years cleaning up.
But by the way, there's a ration of "if, and, and but" in that "You can make a fully ready combat char in less than two days".
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
-sigh- You people.
lol
Congratulations. You managed to squeeze just about every "PvP Toughguy" cliche' into a single paragraph. You've clearly studied and memorized the handbook. Outstanding. Truly. -cue golfclap-
Having said that, if you're going to take the time to reply to my posts, please show me the courtesy of at least thoroughly reading and comprehending what I've said first? You clearly did neither in this case.
So you didnt make a QQ post about some freaking reagents being stolen? Maybe you needed a big shiny arrow pointing you the right way.. srsly, theres a help chat where could ask questions, if your gonna quit on the first road block then this game is probably not for you... I had countless gold stolen as a noob that took me hours to get, until I learned how to deal with them and now theyre a joke...
First of all, I'm still in game. I guess you didn't get that far in the thread. You're also still doing the "PvP Tough Guy on the Internet" thing... and it's still not impressive. I've seen far better performances from far bolder individuals. Should work on that.
Secondly.. No. It wasn't a 'QQ' post. You either didn't read what I said, couldn't comprehend the point I was making, completely missed the context, or are simply being dishonest at this point.
To make it simple: I'm explaining why a design like that can tend to push away people who could and in many cases would otherwise stick around. I'm explaining why giving players a bit more time to get their bearings and learn the game can make for a better overall experience than being preyed upon by a bunch of people who clearly have nothing better to do than hassle people who don't know the game well enough to know any better.
You're more than happy to deal with a poorly designed new player experience, whose creators clearly have no idea of the long-term impact those first moments can have on the game's population. Having seen and played better designed new player experiences - which had zero negative effect on the rest of the game, incidentally - I'm not willing to just "settle", and am voicing my views on the subject.
There's a difference between "PvP", and "hassling new players because they're inexperienced, ignorant of pretty much the entire game at that point, and hence, easy targets". Clearly you don't see the difference. That's unfortunate. I do.
But, perhaps your insistence on defending the way it is now hints at ulterior motives. Wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the case. It certainly raises an eyebrow that you, and others like you, would be so against something that could quite likely help the game's population. I'd think someone who likes the game would want to see it do better.
And by the by... I find it far more "carebearish" to spend time in a new player area, specifically targeting brand-new players who don't know any different and whom can do very little in response. That's a person going after the easiest and safest targets they can find in game. There's nothing "hardcore" about it. It's about as brazen as running into a school playground, punching a bunch of kids, then running off. Defending it as though it's some kind of worthy endeavor is just sad.
Your points are truly valid. For the sake of gaining new subs, SV should polish new players experience, definitely before Steam release since it would make great influx of all kinds of players, including griefers. For starts, new players should be warned about thievery feature.
Concerning people who grief, it is quite easy to get rid of them by completely ignoring them, this hurts them most. Just don't communicate with them, act like you are NPC. Try relogging if someone is really persistent. I play as a 100% peacful player since early beta block A in 2009. and I never have been griefed. I am not in any guild and play solo and I don't have any problems.
As for thieves, they don't pose no issue, you just have to be fast with inventory transactions and hold large stacks of silver. Don't wear gold coins. I even intentionally leave some stuff i inventory for thieves so they can steal it, so I can call guards on them, or even lure them into stealing some unvaluable item over more valuable.
Comments
I think you misunderstand me. I personally agree with you and would have made a more fleshed out starting experience that is easier on new players. Unfortunately I am not in charge of the game and have no power over its development. If I were, I would have done a few things differently to make the game more friendly to other playstyles.
I'm only saying that I have read enough direct posts from the developers to say that they don't want to make the game less harsh for the reasons I have already mentioned. Heinrick is an old UO vet from the old days when that game was just as harsh as MO is now. He thought that was the best time in all of MMO gaming and wanted to replicate that in his game. A lot of people obviously don't like the game's design, but there is a small niche of us who do.
Hmm... Fair enough, then. I misunderstood you.. It seemed like you'd done a near 180 on your point-of-view there lol.
I think they're unnecessarily cutting out a potentially larger (not astronomically higher, mind you... but sufficiently) playerbase by being that stubborn.
I respect Henrick's desire to recapture that old-school feel. There aren't many out there who would and, certainly, I'd love to get back the old Lineage 2, or the old FFXI for my PvE fix.
However, I guess it just surprises me that he would refuse to make what amounts to a new player's very first steps, an insignificant % of their potential "career" in the game, a more positive and enjoyable experience... in the name of making the entire game that way. And I suppose there's a point to be found in his approach... someone who is really determined to dig in and play no matter what will just gnash their teeth and bear it. I just personally think it's needlessly limiting what could be a much healthier playerbase. It would have absolutely no ill effect on the game in the long-term to do so.
But well.. it's his game, not mine... so...
What is it with you sandbox people, carebear and user-friendly are not synonyms. There are no excuses to not making the game user friendly, whether it's WoW or Darksouls. A good example is the revamp of the MO UI, which made it bit better, but hardly any more carebear. I wouldn't say that extending newie zone is the solution, but better tutorial and integration into the world is.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind the whole tutorial area (the Gardens) would be sealed off from other players so you can never go back (dont make it an instance tho)... it IS kinda fucked up that vet players can go inside that area and harrass new players by making them grey on purpose (laying blue pet pigs as traps so they hit them), etc.
But NEVER make ANY city a safezone like they did in DF UW... you see that game sucks now, nearly everyone that enjoyed the first one can tell you they fucked up BIGTIME with that move... and what happened to you happened outside the tutorial right? Part of the fun of MO is that theres risk in everything you do, the fact that you quit and made a huge QQ post because a couple of reagents got stolen means you probably cant stomach MO and need a more casual friendly mmo... btw there are no classes in this game, just because you started as a "mage" doesnt mean you cant pick up your worn short sword (which doesnt drop on death BTW) and go kill some zombies for reagents money, a little asking around in the help chat would have solved this questions (coupled with some tips on how to combat thieves, like pushing so they go grey, convert ur gold into silver, etc.)
this game is like the Dark Souls of MMORPGs
So you didnt make a QQ post about some freaking reagents being stolen? Maybe you needed a big shiny arrow pointing you the right way.. srsly, theres a help chat where could ask questions, if your gonna quit on the first road block then this game is probably not for you... I had countless gold stolen as a noob that took me hours to get, until I learned how to deal with them and now theyre a joke...
First of all, I'm still in game. I guess you didn't get that far in the thread. You're also still doing the "PvP Tough Guy on the Internet" thing... and it's still not impressive. I've seen far better performances from far bolder individuals. Should work on that.
Secondly.. No. It wasn't a 'QQ' post. You either didn't read what I said, couldn't comprehend the point I was making, completely missed the context, or are simply being dishonest at this point.
To make it simple: I'm explaining why a design like that can tend to push away people who could and in many cases would otherwise stick around. I'm explaining why giving players a bit more time to get their bearings and learn the game can make for a better overall experience than being preyed upon by a bunch of people who clearly have nothing better to do than hassle people who don't know the game well enough to know any better.
You're more than happy to deal with a poorly designed new player experience, whose creators clearly have no idea of the long-term impact those first moments can have on the game's population. Having seen and played better designed new player experiences - which had zero negative effect on the rest of the game, incidentally - I'm not willing to just "settle", and am voicing my views on the subject.
There's a difference between "PvP", and "hassling new players because they're inexperienced, ignorant of pretty much the entire game at that point, and hence, easy targets". Clearly you don't see the difference. That's unfortunate. I do.
But, perhaps your insistence on defending the way it is now hints at ulterior motives. Wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the case. It certainly raises an eyebrow that you, and others like you, would be so against something that could quite likely help the game's population. I'd think someone who likes the game would want to see it do better.
And by the by... I find it far more "carebearish" to spend time in a new player area, specifically targeting brand-new players who don't know any different and whom can do very little in response. That's a person going after the easiest and safest targets they can find in game. There's nothing "hardcore" about it. It's about as brazen as running into a school playground, punching a bunch of kids, then running off. Defending it as though it's some kind of worthy endeavor is just sad.
Well said, TangentPoint! It's an ongoing legacy of MO that the most fervent fanbois lose sight of very obvious design failures. Design failures that they claim define the "vision" of the game. But as you articulately point out do more harm to the game than good.
Game, set, match...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
It's not just MO and DO, humanity has become a cesspool.. and yes, I too have stooped to their level.
Indeed... like when they insisted that having no full frontal nudity filter was integral to the design of the game and tried to shout down anyone that asked for the OPTION to turn off naked penises....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Very effective way to learn new players that they shouldnt carry around valubles and ALWAYS be on guard for filthy thives. When I played MO there was one very skilled thief always hanging Tindrem bank, snooping ppls pockets and stealing stuff. The first coupple of times I got really enoyed, then I started to know his patterns and hiding places. After awhile I became really good at "pushing" him at the right time, exposing him for all players and guards. Later it became a sport between the 2 of us and we actually ended up as friends chatting and exchaning experiences and ticks. This I have nothing against since its one if the cool features in MO. Regarding the griefing as blocking mobs and being a jerk, most of them tires of it if you dont get upsrt and start talking smack. Thats the only thing they are after, making you angry. If you learn to ignore them and get some game time you ll run into them soone or later outside the city walls.But by the way, there's a ration of "if, and, and but" in that "You can make a fully ready combat char in less than two days".
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
Your points are truly valid. For the sake of gaining new subs, SV should polish new players experience, definitely before Steam release since it would make great influx of all kinds of players, including griefers. For starts, new players should be warned about thievery feature.
Concerning people who grief, it is quite easy to get rid of them by completely ignoring them, this hurts them most. Just don't communicate with them, act like you are NPC. Try relogging if someone is really persistent. I play as a 100% peacful player since early beta block A in 2009. and I never have been griefed. I am not in any guild and play solo and I don't have any problems.
As for thieves, they don't pose no issue, you just have to be fast with inventory transactions and hold large stacks of silver. Don't wear gold coins. I even intentionally leave some stuff i inventory for thieves so they can steal it, so I can call guards on them, or even lure them into stealing some unvaluable item over more valuable.