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How is 4 instance dungeons acceptable in a MMORPG in 2014?

SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548

I am surprised WildStar gets a pass on this, they are releasing with 4 instance dungeons at launch.  How is that acceptable? SWTOR had 12 at launch.  GW2 had 8 at launch.  Neverwinter had 11 at launch.  And all these MMOs were looked upon as MMOs that lacked content and generally were considered sub par.  ESO is going to release with 16 instance dungeons.  Even WoD which cut back on 5 mans will have 7 at launch.

Before people bring up the 6 adventures they have.  Other games have similar type of content, like WoD's several scenarios and ESO's 16 additional public dungeons.

I want WildStar to succeed and I don't think it is a bad game, but I don't see how it is possible with a limited choice of dungeons, which to me is the soul of a MMORPG.  I think it has other faults, but this to me might be the biggest one along with the bad combat mechanics of the game.

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Comments

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    I am surprised WildStar gets a pass on this, they are releasing with 4 instance dungeons at launch.  How is that acceptable? SWTOR had 12 at launch.  GW2 had 8 at launch.  Neverwinter had 11 at launch.  And all these MMOs were looked upon as MMOs that lacked content and generally were considered sub par.  ESO is going to release with 16 instance dungeons.  Even WoD which cut back on 5 mans will have 7 at launch.

    Before people bring up the 6 adventures they have.  Other games have similar type of content, like WoD's several scenarios and ESO's 16 additional public dungeons.

    I want WildStar to succeed and I don't think it is a bad game, but I don't see how it is possible with a limited choice of dungeons, which to me is the soul of a MMORPG.  I think it has other faults, but this to me might be the biggest one along with the bad combat mechanics of the game.

    4!? You have to be kidding.

  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030

    I believe it's true that there are only 4 dungeons at launch with two difficulty levels but the answer to your question really depends on how the Adventures work out which are really very large dungeons with multiple paths.

    If they work out well then probably yes it is acceptable.Otherwise...

    EDIT : There are going to be 6 adventures at launch.

  • Med17Med17 Member UncommonPosts: 73

    Because besides dungeons there are;

    -adventures, which feature different outcomes (sort of like GW2, but better)

    -paths

    -something like solo dungeons.

     

    Also, 40-man raids.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818

    Honestly I don't think WS is getting a pass on anything anymore. Atleast not from the mmorpg community. 

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • zevianzevian Member UncommonPosts: 403

    I saw some people playing an adventure and they looked pretty fun,   Its setup like a choose your own adventure story and the ones i saw lasted 30-45 min.

     

    The nice things about the adventures is they are like a dungeon just not as static, sure eventually youll end up repeating what youve done before, but there were a few different stop points that allowed your group to collectively choose the next goal.

     

  • DauntisDauntis Member UncommonPosts: 600
    Probably because they designed a whole world with alternate activities and not just an instant dungeon lobby for people to level up through soley doing dungeon content.

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  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    As others have said, adventures are essentially dungeons with multiple paths. So thats basically 10 dungeons, 2 large raids and a bunch of small group shiphand missions. The adventures and dungeons are far bigger than ESOs offerings at launch.
  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Adventures are not small or short content BTW. They are nothing like WoW scenarios that have 3 players, are linear and take about 10 mins.

    Even rushing through, adventures take at least 30-40 mins and are for a full group of 5. The reason they aren't considered dungeons is because they offer pathway choices.
  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by evilastro
    As others have said, adventures are essentially dungeons with multiple paths. So thats basically 10 dungeons, 2 large raids and a bunch of small group shiphand missions. The adventures and dungeons are far bigger than ESOs offerings at launch.

    But other games have dozens of activities like the ship hand missions and adventures. The one adventure they showed on the live stream was basically defending an object against scores of mobs coming at it.  It was more of a horde mode from Gears of War than an actual dungeon of any kind. 

    It seems like the game is launching with 4 instance dungeons and the adventures seem like glorified group quests.

    I hope for their sake it is enough, because it just doesn't seem like it is.

  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 Member UncommonPosts: 450
    It is a bit of a small offering in my opinion, kind of similar to when LOTRO launched.  It doesn't help that Wildstar's main competition right now is ESO and it is launching with 40 dungeons (16 public, 16 instanced, 6 veteran and 2 adventure zones).
  • zevianzevian Member UncommonPosts: 403

    The truth is its hard to compare what the full scope of the content in both games is at this point of time, without breaking the NDA, (wildstar).   

     

    ESO at this point is ready to ship so all their content is in and done, Wildstar is still adding things and tweaking others, currently you might find xx amount of each activity, however by the time the game comes out xx more could be added. 

     

    I do understand the need to make comparisons,  however we havent yet been able to see everything Wildstar has/ will have to offer.

     

    ESO looks like tons of fun though, ill be playing it regardless of its shortcomings, just like Wildstar.  I wont know if i enjoy the game until i can actually get my hands and some time in it. (not just chatboards streams or dev speak)

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22
    It is a bit of a small offering in my opinion, kind of similar to when LOTRO launched.  It doesn't help that Wildstar's main competition right now is ESO and it is launching with 40 dungeons (16 public, 16 instanced, 6 veteran and 2 adventure zones).

    ESO also has dozens of solo dungeons that revolve around quests, but ESO is a bad comparison because TES games are mainly supposed to be dungeon crawlers so ESO has many dungeons.

    But if you compare WildStar to WoD is doesn't compare.  It will have less raids than WoW and less instance dungeons than WoW.  Will these adventures be enough to compare against scenarios and proving grounds and other content WoW has?

    I was very surprised to hear it has 4 instance dungeons.  I would have focused more on the dungeons if I were them, because the dungeons they do have seem fun.

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    There's no way they are only putting out 4 dungeons.  Carbine has to have more planned before launch.  Otherwise how the heck do they defend the comment of you're not competing with WoW ten years ago, but WoW now?
  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    There's no way they are only putting out 4 dungeons.  Carbine has to have more planned before launch.  Otherwise how the heck do they defend the comment of you're not competing with WoW ten years ago, but WoW now?

    They have already confirmed it is 4 at launch.  They could add more after launch but right now at launch don't expect more than 4.  WoW 10 years ago at launch had about 14 dungeons and 4 raids at launch.

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    There's no way they are only putting out 4 dungeons.  Carbine has to have more planned before launch.  Otherwise how the heck do they defend the comment of you're not competing with WoW ten years ago, but WoW now?

    They have already confirmed it is 4 at launch.  They could add more after launch but right now at launch don't expect more than 4.  WoW 10 years ago at launch had about 14 dungeons and 4 raids at launch.

    That's really sad.  

  • KrigerKriger Member Posts: 34

    While I share your concern for content, and other people's concerns for limited number of classes etc.... I mostly hope that they focus on getting things "right". I've played more than my fair share of mmos at, or near, launch and I personally (and even I'm cringing as I say it) would rather they get their more limited features down pat and refined than it to release a horrible mess.

    My hope is that they can avoid a lot of the things that have haunted mmo launches since the early days. SWTOR had quite a few dungeons at release, but they weren't very large or long and horribly bugged.  That trend of a lot of short quick dungeons may be fine with others (god knows I don't miss spending hours in Scholomance with a pug in vanilla WoW.), but there is a fine line that is different for everyone when it comes to dungeons. I personally had a blast in the wildstar beta weekend I participated in... once I found a class I enjoyed. We'll just have to wait and see what happens, it is still a fair distance off and a lot can happen *crosses fingers*.

    This space reserved for pithy comment.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    I think you're putting too much focus on a classic trope, rather than looking at what the game actually offers in full. It's only unacceptable if it means the game is very light on content. Which using a number in the manner you have "there's only four" makes it sound like that is the case. Is that the case? I have no idea, if it isn't the case, then four dungeons means little in the grand scheme of things. So on so forth.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290

    I would bet all the tea in china that the next truly successful MMORPG (2 million + Subs maintained) will launch with approximately 0 instances, and maintain this level of instanced dungeons.

     

    Instances are a lazy developers crutch.

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by evilastro
    As others have said, adventures are essentially dungeons with multiple paths. So thats basically 10 dungeons, 2 large raids and a bunch of small group shiphand missions. The adventures and dungeons are far bigger than ESOs offerings at launch.

    But other games have dozens of activities like the ship hand missions and adventures. The one adventure they showed on the live stream was basically defending an object against scores of mobs coming at it.  It was more of a horde mode from Gears of War than an actual dungeon of any kind. 

    It seems like the game is launching with 4 instance dungeons and the adventures seem like glorified group quests.

    I hope for their sake it is enough, because it just doesn't seem like it is.

     

    That would have been only one event from within an adventure.  Throw in about 6 other events and two bosses and that would be the full adventure.

    Will they need more dungeons after launch? Sure. That's the whole point of a sub isn't it? But I would rather they focus on polishing what they do have for launch.  I definitely don't think this game is content light in its current state. It would be at least 3-4 months before people start clamouring for new dungeons and raids.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706

    I heard it was launching with more. Being uninterested in their raiding, this doesn't sway me in their direction any.

    To me, it feels like they're basically saying piss off to players that aren't interested in their large raids.

    Although 1 40 man and 1 20 man raid doesn't exactly sound thrilling if I were interested in their raiding.

  • AvulAvul Member Posts: 196
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I heard it was launching with more. Being uninterested in their raiding, this doesn't sway me in their direction any.

    To me, it feels like they're basically saying piss off to players that aren't interested in their large raids.

    Although 1 40 man and 1 20 man raid doesn't exactly sound thrilling if I were interested in their raiding.

    Well.. if you're not interested in raiding at all.. WildStar isn't the game you're looking for. It can be a good game for hardcore raiders.. others will be pretty disappointed. Their remaining content is sub-par in my opinion.

    Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by zelaex
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I heard it was launching with more. Being uninterested in their raiding, this doesn't sway me in their direction any.

    To me, it feels like they're basically saying piss off to players that aren't interested in their large raids.

    Although 1 40 man and 1 20 man raid doesn't exactly sound thrilling if I were interested in their raiding.

    Well.. if you're not interested in raiding at all.. WildStar isn't the game you're looking for. It can be a good game for hardcore raiders.. others will be pretty disappointed. Their remaining content is sub-par in my opinion.

    Biggest issue they will prob have is having certain classes being able to fill certain roles better than other classes.  I just keep thinking that something has to be missing.  Even listening to the breakdown of the Adventures doesn't sound like enough.  Unless  the end game leveling slows down substantially.  Not sure how people aren't going to burn through everything and be bored after the first month and a half.  But they don't have a release date yet.  I find that telling.

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,738
    Haven't gotten a chance to check it out, but not a fan of only instanced dungeons, and 4 seems low...Not a huge fan of the "We have difficulty levels, so 4 becomes 8/12/16 dungeons" either.  Would like to see some kind of 50/50 mix at least.
  • bobfishbobfish Member UncommonPosts: 1,679

    Wildstar is still in pre-launch hype mode, reality will settle in eventually. But like others have noted, Carbine do have time to add more to the game and fix what isn't quite right.

     

    I personally don't have faith in them to do any of that, but might as well give them the benefit of the doubt, they've created a very nice themepark.

  • VicDynamoVicDynamo Member Posts: 234
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    I am surprised WildStar gets a pass on this, they are releasing with 4 instance dungeons at launch.  How is that acceptable? SWTOR had 12 at launch.  GW2 had 8 at launch.  Neverwinter had 11 at launch.  And all these MMOs were looked upon as MMOs that lacked content and generally were considered sub par.  ESO is going to release with 16 instance dungeons.  Even WoD which cut back on 5 mans will have 7 at launch.

    Before people bring up the 6 adventures they have.  Other games have similar type of content, like WoD's several scenarios and ESO's 16 additional public dungeons.

    I want WildStar to succeed and I don't think it is a bad game, but I don't see how it is possible with a limited choice of dungeons, which to me is the soul of a MMORPG.  I think it has other faults, but this to me might be the biggest one along with the bad combat mechanics of the game.

    You completely dismiss adventures, which is valid instanced group content with virtually identical rewards. OH, and from what I'v heard *ahem* they are hella fun and totally repeatable. Give me 4 dungeons that are amazing instead of 12 that are *yawn* forgettable. And leave out Adventures that are also insanely repeatable. 

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