Originally posted by Bladestrom Yup you can't have balance in a large open world, it's impossible simply put.
Of course its possible... If the game is also SKILL based, then a smaller but more organized group could take out a zerg of unskilled players (which tends to be the norm with zergs, as they are way harder to organize so many ppl) and thats the beauty of open world pvp, in a game designed around it.... if you put OW pvp in WoW (a PvE game) then yeah, it would be impossible to balance
Why couldn't wow simply tweak their phasing features to remove all pve content when pvp phased and remove all pvp content when pve phased? With cross realms, phasing, two separate rule sets for abilities, and maybe add some open world objectives...most would be happy. You want to pve? Phase into that. Want to pvp? Phase into that. An ability is too strong in pvp? Change the rules for it in pvp and keep the rules for it in pve.
Personally, I think things are in a place where everyone could be happy if only the changes were implemented. No more pvp servers or pve servers. Pvp games or pve games. But rather a game that literally changes(phases) depending on what you the player wants to do at any given time.
See thats not what me, as the pvp player, wants.... I want an open world where killing anyone anywhere is possible at any time, with also the ability to loot all their gear, altho I dont mind a flagging system of some sort to penalize murderers and ban them from towns.... You cant please both the PvE and PvP crowd at the same time, just adding a pvp toggle in a pve game doesnt mean every pvper is gonna be happy automatically..
How does being in the pvp phase where only pvp can occur stop you from "killing anyone anywhere..."?
What you want is the ability to kill someone while they are doing something completely unrelated to pvp...just because, you can. My ant analogy comes to mind.
YuP interesting pov but um doesn't offer any solution to op beyond 'deal with it'. Unfortunately thread busting point proven about why it doesn't work - mmemers with no empath (in a mmorg lol)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
No wait, to make it fair I should be able to hit him with a donkey spell that is in unbreakable, can be cast from stealth and lasts for 30 mins. Probably needs to 'deal with it'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
But life isn't fair...,so you're not going to get what you want in your idea of a medieval game, dummy. See how logic works, dummy?
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Glad you laughed, and you're the only one using the derogatory term ;dummy'. If you attempting to upset ppl, try a little harder. It fails miserably.
BTW, it IS a game. You attach more meaning to something so trivial and shallow in life? Now, that's pathetic...
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Glad you laughed, and you're the only one using the derogatory term ;dummy'. If you attempting to upset ppl, try a little harder. It fails miserably.
BTW, it IS a game. You attach more meaning to something so trivial and shallow in life? Now, that's pathetic...
Huh? I'm the one he called a dummy...I just thought your point was funny and apt.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Yup you can't have balance in a large open world, it's impossible simply put.
Of course its possible... If the game is also SKILL based, then a smaller but more organized group could take out a zerg of unskilled players (which tends to be the norm with zergs, as they are way harder to organize so many ppl) and thats the beauty of open world pvp, in a game designed around it.... if you put OW pvp in WoW (a PvE game) then yeah, it would be impossible to balance
Why couldn't wow simply tweak their phasing features to remove all pve content when pvp phased and remove all pvp content when pve phased? With cross realms, phasing, two separate rule sets for abilities, and maybe add some open world objectives...most would be happy. You want to pve? Phase into that. Want to pvp? Phase into that. An ability is too strong in pvp? Change the rules for it in pvp and keep the rules for it in pve.
Personally, I think things are in a place where everyone could be happy if only the changes were implemented. No more pvp servers or pve servers. Pvp games or pve games. But rather a game that literally changes(phases) depending on what you the player wants to do at any given time.
See thats not what me, as the pvp player, wants.... I want an open world where killing anyone anywhere is possible at any time, with also the ability to loot all their gear, altho I dont mind a flagging system of some sort to penalize murderers and ban them from towns.... You cant please both the PvE and PvP crowd at the same time, just adding a pvp toggle in a pve game doesnt mean every pvper is gonna be happy automatically..
How does being in the pvp phase where only pvp can occur stop you from "killing anyone anywhere..."?
What you want is the ability to kill someone while they are doing something completely unrelated to pvp...just because, you can. My ant analogy comes to mind.
It just breaks immersion and would be way to convienent that it would detract all the beauty of OW pvp... oh so your transporting valuable goods? Go to PvE world, oh you want to farm? go pve world, etc. etc.
A dungeon in an open world pvp game is not just another meaningless instance, its a pvp hot spot where going to farm turns into a whole operation instead of mindless button smashing, where you can expect to find ppl with loot, and theyre probably prepared to die for it..
This is what PvErs dont understand, in a OW pvp game, PvE is deeply ingrained into the pvp... you cant just separate them with a toggle
Originally posted by Bladestrom The issue is balance, gw2 Zerg trains being perfect example. Would you have a football game where it's up to the team how many players they can field at 1 time, with any level of 'armour' or professional level. Ofc not.
It's not an issue of balance when the PvE player only wants to play through PvE content. The issue is whether or not PvP content is by choice, or always on. The PvE player will prefer that PvP be a choice. The PvP player will prefer that PvP flags be always on. Any solution that doesn't address this fundamental difference isn't a solution. So far, it's just a way to make PvP more interesting for the PvP players.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
u for real? Im not the one who started with RL comparisons, I was just stating that HIS RL comparision (that in society ppl dont go running around murdering) is flawed because these games are mostly "medieval" themed, where there werent any of these restrictions... I agree these are games, and believe or not, these "gankers" are not psycho killers in real life as well, but if your gonna compare to real life at least do it right ^^
u for real? Im not the one who started with RL comparisons, I was just stating that HIS RL comparision (that in society ppl dont go running around murdering) is flawed because these games are mostly "medieval" themed, where there werent any of these restrictions... I agree these are games, and believe or not, these "gankers" are not psycho killers in real life as well, but if your gonna compare to real life at least do it right ^^
This wasn't directed at your personally but at that tangent of debate. Gankers do make for some interesting adventures in PvP, though many PvE'rs wishing to partake and get their feet wet dread being so overwhelmed.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Glad you laughed, and you're the only one using the derogatory term ;dummy'. If you attempting to upset ppl, try a little harder. It fails miserably.
BTW, it IS a game. You attach more meaning to something so trivial and shallow in life? Now, that's pathetic...
Huh? I'm the one he called a dummy...I just thought your point was funny and apt.
Then I guess it was directed at him and not you. My bad I misread, happens from time to time. Especially from work and trying to do other stuff. My apologies
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol *bashes head on wall*
You want unfair, ok.
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Glad you laughed, and you're the only one using the derogatory term ;dummy'. If you attempting to upset ppl, try a little harder. It fails miserably.
BTW, it IS a game. You attach more meaning to something so trivial and shallow in life? Now, that's pathetic...
Huh? I'm the one he called a dummy...I just thought your point was funny and apt.
Then I guess it was directed at him and not you. My bad I misread, happens from time to time. Especially from work and trying to do other stuff. My apologies
Do in a pve/pvp mix game is it fair of a over can turn you into a dandelion for 30 mins do I can farm you for pve gain. if you are allowed to me? Lol ofc not, ganking is selfish unless it is mutually agreed apon implicitly or otherwise
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
Yes. Life is not fair, deal with it
unfair is more fun than "fair"
How does being in the pvp phase where only pvp can occur stop you from "killing anyone anywhere..."?
What you want is the ability to kill someone while they are doing something completely unrelated to pvp...just because, you can. My ant analogy comes to mind.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Then justice doesn't exist and I should just do whatever the hell I want. We as a society decide what is and is not fair or just and we live(life) within that society...
You're really saying that society isn't fair and the way we deal with that is by redesigning it.
If everyone had your mentality we would still be in caves.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
lol
these are medieval games dummy, do you know how easy it was to murder someone in the middle of nowhere? Life was way more tough back then, and thats how it should be in a "medieval" game...
Comparisons to RL...seriously? The big difference is that once you're murdered, you don't respawn. lol
But life isn't fair...,so you're not going to get what you want in your idea of a medieval game, dummy. See how logic works, dummy?
These aren't all medieval games, dummy.
Thanks for the laugh! Now we will hear his comeback of "it's a game, dummy."
Omg that's not fair I want to pvp!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Get it yet?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Glad you laughed, and you're the only one using the derogatory term ;dummy'. If you attempting to upset ppl, try a little harder. It fails miserably.
BTW, it IS a game. You attach more meaning to something so trivial and shallow in life? Now, that's pathetic...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Huh? I'm the one he called a dummy...I just thought your point was funny and apt.
It just breaks immersion and would be way to convienent that it would detract all the beauty of OW pvp... oh so your transporting valuable goods? Go to PvE world, oh you want to farm? go pve world, etc. etc.
A dungeon in an open world pvp game is not just another meaningless instance, its a pvp hot spot where going to farm turns into a whole operation instead of mindless button smashing, where you can expect to find ppl with loot, and theyre probably prepared to die for it..
This is what PvErs dont understand, in a OW pvp game, PvE is deeply ingrained into the pvp... you cant just separate them with a toggle
It's not an issue of balance when the PvE player only wants to play through PvE content. The issue is whether or not PvP content is by choice, or always on. The PvE player will prefer that PvP be a choice. The PvP player will prefer that PvP flags be always on. Any solution that doesn't address this fundamental difference isn't a solution. So far, it's just a way to make PvP more interesting for the PvP players.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
u for real? Im not the one who started with RL comparisons, I was just stating that HIS RL comparision (that in society ppl dont go running around murdering) is flawed because these games are mostly "medieval" themed, where there werent any of these restrictions... I agree these are games, and believe or not, these "gankers" are not psycho killers in real life as well, but if your gonna compare to real life at least do it right ^^
This wasn't directed at your personally but at that tangent of debate. Gankers do make for some interesting adventures in PvP, though many PvE'rs wishing to partake and get their feet wet dread being so overwhelmed.
Then I guess it was directed at him and not you. My bad
I misread, happens from time to time. Especially from work and trying to do other stuff. My apologies
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
It's all good.
Only if the game is supposed to be a PvE game...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D