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[Poll] Should Zenimax do away with phasing and make the world more cohesive?

SatariousSatarious Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

I don't know about you guys, but I found little value in being made to feel "special" by other NPCs based on certain quest lines I've finished.  All this effort to make it single player friendly comes at the expense of a cohesive mmo world.  You end up with this complicated, immersion breaking mess in which people you know or are grouped with see different worlds because they didn't complete the same quests.  It's very anti-mmo, imho.  Anyway, that's my opinion.  What's yours?

 

 

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Comments

  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 328
    The phasing was the one thing of this game that I just really, really hate. I love the game in general, but the phasing as you said supports solo players but is a huge pain in the ass if you're trying to play with friends.
  • paul43paul43 Member UncommonPosts: 198
    They have spent tons of resources and time to get that phasing to work the way it does now. They're not going to scrap it and go back to old school mmorpgs. 
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    On the one hand, it's nice to actually see permanent changes in the world. After the defence of the fort, there are many NPC's that cheer your deeds, but if you look around you will also find some mourning their dead comrades.

    The permanent change is far more immersive to me than having that fort being permanently attacked for all eternity, where I can stand and watch as a never-ending stream of heroes perform the same feats as I just did, all with no apparent effect whatsoever.

     

    On the other hand, it does create grouping issues.

     

    However, there may be ways of overcoming the out-of-quest-sync problem with other players, or at least reducing its impact. The group finder could be designed in such a way that it suggests player matches ranked on how closely their "quest profiles" correspond, for instance. I'm sure there must be ways of making the phasing less disruptive.

     

    If I had to choose between the "old-style" static worlds and the "new" changing and evolving worlds, I'd pick the latter without a doubt.

  • Lord_AthonLord_Athon Member UncommonPosts: 165

    Lol

    I was hopping that someone had the same opinion as me.

    I'm not a (might we can call) an ESO Boy, and of course not the oposite (antiwillneverplaybecauseiliketosaystupidthings) becoause i allready bought the imperial edit.

    But it really anoyed me and my friends. Well, if this wasn't a mmo i could even try to understand, but when this should be social interface to experience the world of Tamriel, this is completelly wrong.

    I was almost to post my experience from this beta, it was my only 2nd weekend, but had terrible moments with this issue, and of course those irritating graph/stuck bugs (happened 3 times this weekend).

    About good things, i'm still enjoying the game (if me and my friends had the same quests to complete) and the craft has the importance i was expected.

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  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103


    ABSOLUTLY NOT!

     

    Whole RPG of the game is CENTERED around Phasing!   That's what gives the higher level of immersion in the quests and storylines....

     

    Why in the hell would you want to do away with the best and main feature of the RPG in the PVE?

     

    Cohesive?   IT would literally do the exact opposite if you got rid of phasing,  I don't think people understand what Phasing is really actually doing for them.

     

    Phasing allows your environment to change around you as the story progresses, its what allows you to see a burning building during your storyline.    You expect others to see that burning building before that happens in their story line?

     

    Phasing allows you to see buildings destroyed after your quest, or a area that looks peaceful after a battle....

     

    WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS, SHOULD I SEE YOUR BUILDINGS PEACEFUL IN THE TIME OF A WAR ON MY STORYLINES?    I SAY HELL NO!

     

    That's not cohesive,  THATS STORY SPOILING!

     

     

     

  • Lord_AthonLord_Athon Member UncommonPosts: 165
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    However, there may be ways of overcoming the out-of-quest-sync problem with other players, or at least reducing its impact. The group finder could be designed in such a way that it suggests player matches ranked on how closely their "quest profiles" correspond, for instance. I'm sure there must be ways of making the phasing less disruptive.

    If I had to choose between the "old-style" static worlds and the "new" changing and evolving worlds, I'd pick the latter without a doubt.

    I think the sharing option should allways work, or else...

    And not stop group with your friends, that you allready know from long time and group with someone just to end a quest... I think this isn't valid for me. I will play at least 1 month, but if this issue gets an obstacle to play with group/friends, hummm... if then else... I'll go on with my life

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  • SatariousSatarious Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    On the one hand, it's nice to actually see permanent changes in the world. After the defence of the fort, there are many NPC's that cheer your deeds, but if you look around you will also find some mourning their dead comrades.

    The permanent change is far more immersive to me than having that fort being permanently attacked for all eternity, where I can stand and watch as a never-ending stream of heroes perform the same feats as I just did, all with no apparent effect whatsoever.

    On the other hand, it does create grouping issues.

    However, there may be ways of overcoming the out-of-quest-sync problem with other players, or at least reducing its impact. The group finder could be designed in such a way that it suggests player matches ranked on how closely their "quest profiles" correspond, for instance. I'm sure there must be ways of making the phasing less disruptive.

    If I had to choose between the "old-style" static worlds and the "new" changing and evolving worlds, I'd pick the latter without a doubt.

    Yeah, but the problem is, it's all fake BS.  It's like being pretentious and being self-aware of it.  Essentially, the game is trying to make everybody into "winners".  When you're playing a game, the word "winner" doesn't hold much value if there are no losers.  And even if you do lose, the point is to try to do better next time to win.  That's the motivation that drives people.  That's why all this fake "ego boost" crap around every player that completes a quest doesn't hold much value, imho.  In an MMO, it's about how you stack up against your peer players that holds the most draw.

     

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103

    This deserves a second post.

     

    Say you would like to be in the same phase as your buddies,  don't say get rid of phasing, that's like saying throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

     

    If you want to join your friends phase, just ask Zennimax to add a feature to allow you to join your friends phases while questing.  

     

    To say everyone in the game deservers a less immersive storyline just because you and your friend want to play together is the most selfish thing I have ever heard. 

     

    /end rant.

     

    You'll still be able to do dungeons with your friends, and you'll abe able to kill mobs as they spawn for the other player,  You'll also be able to see the same stuff in 50+ content as well.  Just so you don't mistake that its not all entirely phased.    You'll be able to see the person your grouped with but the NPC's and town looks will look diffearnt for them.

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Originally posted by DMKano

    I do not like phasing - the city being on fire with people dying - only one minute later after quest completion everyone is happy and it all looks fine.

     I know they are NPCs but a bit of realism and mourning might be in order. Let's all stand and cheer, yay victory... oh forget the dead, hahahah.

    No.

     

    Its like at the end of Indepence Day - the Presidents kid was happy - but only yesterday his mother died in the movie...  do you think any child would forget the death of their own mother overnight?

    /facepalm

    Seriously... cmon!

     

     

    I couldn't disagree more.  First off your example of what the city should be like after the fire is over is still phasing.  You have a city on fire you come in and save it and its no longer on fire that is a phase, because other people come along and still see it as on fire.  Unless you are advocating for a GW2 approach where you put out the fire everyone sees that you put out the fire and its on fire again 10 minutes later then what you want is better done phasing.

    The only time I ever enjoyed questing in a traditional quest hub grind MMO was when Mists of Pandaria took phasing to a crazy level and you actually felt like you were doing something.  Collecting jade to fix the temple and actually watching it get fixed was awesome.  Making friends with monkeys and having them stay friendly afterwards.  Phasing was a huge technical step forward for the MMO world towards a real story line as opposed to basic kill count quests, and to get rid of phasing is to go back to that system.

  • VooDoo_PapaVooDoo_Papa Member UncommonPosts: 897

    Theres a lot of things that simply cannot be done without phasing. 

    If you remove it, it would inadvertently effect everyone elses gameplay and make many of the aspects of the game completely unplayable.

    with that said, I've not experienced anything negative due to phasing except when players "pop" after completing sections of a quest. I think phasing has done a lot for MMO's and making the quest system more immersive. Its not perfect, but it sure beats the hell out of the quests we had 10 years ago.

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  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103

    Phasing also is such an advancement in RPG gaming that if they were to get rid of this feature, I would literally throw away this game, and put it with all the other MMORPG's out there.

     

    Phasing is the next gen gaming,   does it need some teaks to be more group friendly, of course, but to throw it out would be going backwards in gaming industry and not to the future of gaming.

  • Preacher26Preacher26 Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Negatives outweigh the positives IMHO. This isn't a single player rpg and not being able to help friends seemed to happen more often than not due to this
  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Negatives outweigh the positives IMHO. This isn't a single player rpg and not being able to help friends seemed to happen more often than not due to this

    I don't have this problem since I'm a solo player.

     

    What I never understood though, was why offer RINGS OF MARA as a bonus so people group up,  if phases are all out of wack with each other while leveling.

     

    Someone should ask Zennimax to add friend joining features as soon as possible is the real answer and fix to this.

     

    .

  • VooDoo_PapaVooDoo_Papa Member UncommonPosts: 897
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Negatives outweigh the positives IMHO. This isn't a single player rpg and not being able to help friends seemed to happen more often than not due to this

    I don't have this problem since I'm a solo player.

     

    What I never understood though, was why offer RINGS OF MARA as a bonus so people group up,  if phases are all out of wack with each other while leveling.

     

    Someone should ask Zennimax to do this feature as soon as possible is the real answer and fix to this.

     

    they send out surveys after each beta weekend. Make sure you state this somewhere on the form, they leave space for you to be very specific. Make sure you let them know

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  • CallinCallin Member Posts: 99

    Just allow people to go back and help so they can catch up. Not being able to group up is detrimental to alot of peoples playstyles. Personally I love to group up and level, and thats really hard to do the way the game is set up right now. All in all I like the game and the phasing is great for single player story. I love it for that, but hate it for the lack of grouping. 

     

    So its a Love/Hate relationship. 

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
    I would just prefer if they add a button to join your group-mate's phase or instance.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • kinartkinart Member UncommonPosts: 127

    I think we re talking about two entirely different things here, under the name of "phasing"...

    One thing is that, when questing, what you see might be different of what everyone else sees. For example, as a part of a quest you have to fight a mob, that mob gets summoned and only you can interact with it. You fight it, while the rest of people look at some idiot whacking the air;  or they don't see you at all. Personally i don't see that as a huge turnoff cause every other MMO does it one way or another.

    The other thing is what would be better called "server instancing" and that is the thing that one of your friends plays the game, you play the game, you talk over the phone, skype, whatever (outside the game), and arrange to meet at some spot, you both arrive on the spot, but you can't see each other. At least that's what i understood from beta, that there will be a single server with many "instances", pretty much like Guild Wars' channels, but without the players having the ability to switch between them... If i am not mistaken about this technology, this is a big problem.

  • lunatiquezlunatiquez Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Elikal
    I would just prefer if they add a button to join your group-mate's phase or instance.

    This has been asked for so many times in the forum. They've also added it to the last ESO feedback form (If I remember correctly). This has to be implemented at launch or we'll see more people rage as they can't even do a dungeon together with their friends/party member.

  • GeridenGeriden Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Phasing can be good if done right, but i noticed ALOT in eso, Even quest npc's arent visable unless you have a quest to speak to the person. Example being the guy with the pot on his head at the start. If if you go there before your told to he isnt there. I saw this a lot in eso. Seemed very weird especially when you see groups of people standing around thin air.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

    No matter if you like it or not.... Removing phasing as its the core of the PvE would delay the game for atleast a year and is not an option

     

    The negatives of phasing can however be repaired quite easilly by either making the content inside the phase dynamically adjusting to the number of players 

     

    or 

     

    as suggested in this post ; http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/post/6219021/thread/406390#6219021

     

    But the phasing needs some changing, its currently the biggest problem...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    I like everything but the inability in helping friends if you're not on the same phase. Their having done it makes for better quests and a better overall experience.  I'd rather have it than not, in the end, it's just annoying with buddies being invisible. 
  • ButeoRegalisButeoRegalis Member UncommonPosts: 594

    "You end up with this complicated, immersion breaking mess in which people you know or are grouped with see different worlds because they didn't complete the same quests."

    I get your point you are making here. However, isn't it just as immersion breaking to see the village still in flames when you just finished the quest to save it from the barbarian hordes, just so that your party all can see the same thing?

    If you give every player a choice on how to progress the story every player would need their own world for it to remain cohesive. If you want everyone to see the same thing they all need to follow the same path, eliminating choice. If you decide the baker in town dies he dies for everyone in game and they don't get to vote on it. I hope you already picked up your breakfast rolls, or you're SoL!

    I don't see how you would make the two elements work together: a cohesive world for all players that gives each player meaningful choices of actions. Complaining about it seems like complaining that water is wet.

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  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
    Originally posted by inemosz
    Originally posted by Elikal
    I would just prefer if they add a button to join your group-mate's phase or instance.

    This has been asked for so many times in the forum. They've also added it to the last ESO feedback form (If I remember correctly). This has to be implemented at launch or we'll see more people rage as they can't even do a dungeon together with their friends/party member.

    I really don't understand WHY ZOS seperated people like this?

    It was so cool in SWTOR to actually see someone else's story! Even if I was just passively watching my friend's dialogue and choices. It was always interesting. Now, with phasing, I am just staring my an arrow, and I have no idea what my friend in the group is talking about with the NPC.

    I really hope ZOS adds a join and watch option, so you can help others, get help and watch each other in the dialogues and cutscenes when you accompany someone. That would be cool.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by inemosz
    Originally posted by Elikal
    I would just prefer if they add a button to join your group-mate's phase or instance.

    This has been asked for so many times in the forum. They've also added it to the last ESO feedback form (If I remember correctly). This has to be implemented at launch or we'll see more people rage as they can't even do a dungeon together with their friends/party member.

    I really don't understand WHY ZOS seperated people like this?

    It was so cool in SWTOR to actually see someone else's story! Even if I was just passively watching my friend's dialogue and choices. It was always interesting. Now, with phasing, I am just staring my an arrow, and I have no idea what my friend in the group is talking about with the NPC.

    I really hope ZOS adds a join and watch option, so you can help others, get help and watch each other in the dialogues and cutscenes when you accompany someone. That would be cool.

     

    Maybe the ability to phase switch will come later.  Seems like this would be the simplest solution.

     

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • HonosHonos Member Posts: 93
    After Beta this weekend I really enjoyed Phasing.  It was something fresh for me and really added much needed immersion.  I loved how the world changed around me based upon my character.  I didn't know if I would like it and don't know if my opinion will change in the future.   However for now I love a fresh aspect phasing brings to MMO's. 

    Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift
    Present: The Elder Scrolls Online
    Future: Everquest Next

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