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[Column] Rift: The Long-Term Impact of F2P

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Comments

  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383

    "In short, if you think RIFT is somehow a worse game because it no longer charges a subscription fee, you have your head in the sand. Even critics have to admit, content-wise, Trion is giving their competition a run for their money."

    But what happens when Trion runs out of old content to recycle?  there is certainly a big drop in content addition between 1.0 and 2.0.  And really, everything up to 2.3 or so was really just content held back from SL release.  And now they are out of that content, and just about out of old content to recycle.

    A game that went through a f2p conversion has NEVER put out a great expansion.  EQ2 and LOTRO's post conversion expansions have been lackluster compared to great expansions like Moria or EoF.  Trion needs to prove it can break this mold, and they havent given indication they can yet.  But they also havent proven they can't.

     

    A lot is riding on 3.0, but it better be out soon and it better be good.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by BadOrb

    " the vast majority of items exist to give the player joy"

    Well if SWTOR sold the second to last tier of gear then I would seriously consider jumping ship. Even if they sold level 51 gear when the cap is 60 I would leave. Glad some people like it though , well get joy out of it in Rift. I wouldn't. Plus SWTOR made 139 mil in their fluff cash shop , so money can be made in a better way.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    The TOR cash shop is way more than fluff. All scalable vehicles are through the Cartel market. You buy your hotbars and unlock the crafting slots (not an option if you really want to craft). There is appearance stuff there is also a lot of useful practical advantageous stuff in there too, not to mention they do sell gear. Does the tier of gear really matter?

    The Rift cash shop sells similar things, but the entire game is a lot more permissive and the cash shop is fundamentally more optional in Rift than in TOR. Really the only way to play TOR and enjoy it is to subscribe. You can enjoy Rift not subscribing. There is a fundamental difference. Although I have to say when you do subscribe to TOR the experience is open and fun, unlock say LotRO. I just don't think TOR is worth the subscription cost long term.

    Though you are right about most of those things, the SWTOR cast shop sells statless gear/skins only, not the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best gear in the game.

    I was thinking of the scalable gear and crystals. They don't inherently come with the top stats but they can be slotted unlike typical cosmetic gear which can't be. So yeah, it's not the best. It's sort of somewhere in the middle. I have no complaints about it though. I think their cash shop overall and how it fits into the GTM is pretty slick. If they would open up their game a little more with a loyalty system rather than just a sub-unlock (like quest rewards and other things that are sub only) then I think it would be one of the best around.

    Well, the gear has empty slots, just like all adaptable gear in the game, which makes it basically a skin. You still need to have the other item to pop the mods out of, or attain the mods seperatly just how you would the gear itself. They are essentially the SWTOR version of skins. The crystals are a base stat on the gear. Wearing the crystals alone do nothing for you, as you still have to obtain the armoring/barrel/hilt, mod, enhancement, and augmentation.

    Access to a lot of SWTOR's content is contained behind a paywall, but you cannot do anything even remotly close to buying endgame gear with it.

    Thats all I wanted to make clear.

  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,227
    Originally posted by Quorina

    The starter dungeon was awful for me as a healer. I executed mechanics ok, but then got to the last boss and he did a burst of constant damage to the tank and plenty of unavoidable aoe damage to the group. So I quickly casted some aoe heals while leaving hits on the tank and NOPE, tank died quickly. Ok, tried just topping the tank but then dos died. I've played many MMOs and have never encountered something so healer unfriendly in a leveling dungeon. I asked around and apparently I have to be an expert at healing and have really good support to complete this dungeon. I mean, dafuq? This is not a hardcore game, I don't understand this.

    Anyways, I didn't even make it to endgame as I only got my cleric to 54. This was before FTP. FTP will not entice me to come back unless changes are made.

    Yup, it says it all over the place. Unless you are really good (and/or really geared), you're going to need support to heal a Rift dungeon. Experts are tougher. And raids even tougher. This was well known at time of SL launch and hasn't changed. I hope they don't take that part of the challenge away. And while Rift isn't a hardcore game, the Trion devs have gone on record multiple times saying that they weren't going to nerf content. (and right now, that's really about the only thing they have going for them IMO)

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Samhael
    Originally posted by Quorina

    The starter dungeon was awful for me as a healer. I executed mechanics ok, but then got to the last boss and he did a burst of constant damage to the tank and plenty of unavoidable aoe damage to the group. So I quickly casted some aoe heals while leaving hits on the tank and NOPE, tank died quickly. Ok, tried just topping the tank but then dos died. I've played many MMOs and have never encountered something so healer unfriendly in a leveling dungeon. I asked around and apparently I have to be an expert at healing and have really good support to complete this dungeon. I mean, dafuq? This is not a hardcore game, I don't understand this.

    Anyways, I didn't even make it to endgame as I only got my cleric to 54. This was before FTP. FTP will not entice me to come back unless changes are made.

    Yup, it says it all over the place. Unless you are really good (and/or really geared), you're going to need support to heal a Rift dungeon. Experts are tougher. And raids even tougher. This was well known at time of SL launch and hasn't changed. I hope they don't take that part of the challenge away. And while Rift isn't a hardcore game, the Trion devs have gone on record multiple times saying that they weren't going to nerf content. (and right now, that's really about the only thing they have going for them IMO)

    This was kind of my point when I called Rift "WoW for adults." The content is much harder than the snooze fest dungeons in WoW and requires a support healer/buffer unless you completely out gear the content. It was designed this way to promote strategy and thought process beyond the trinity.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • BadOrbBadOrb Member UncommonPosts: 791
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by BadOrb

    " the vast majority of items exist to give the player joy"

    Well if SWTOR sold the second to last tier of gear then I would seriously consider jumping ship. Even if they sold level 51 gear when the cap is 60 I would leave. Glad some people like it though , well get joy out of it in Rift. I wouldn't. Plus SWTOR made 139 mil in their fluff cash shop , so money can be made in a better way.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    The TOR cash shop is way more than fluff. All scalable vehicles are through the Cartel market. You buy your hotbars and unlock the crafting slots (not an option if you really want to craft). There is appearance stuff there is also a lot of useful practical advantageous stuff in there too, not to mention they do sell gear. Does the tier of gear really matter?

    The Rift cash shop sells similar things, but the entire game is a lot more permissive and the cash shop is fundamentally more optional in Rift than in TOR. Really the only way to play TOR and enjoy it is to subscribe. You can enjoy Rift not subscribing. There is a fundamental difference. Although I have to say when you do subscribe to TOR the experience is open and fun, unlock say LotRO. I just don't think TOR is worth the subscription cost long term.

    Though you are right about most of those things, the SWTOR cast shop sells statless gear/skins only, not the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best gear in the game.

    I was thinking of the scalable gear and crystals. They don't inherently come with the top stats but they can be slotted unlike typical cosmetic gear which can't be. So yeah, it's not the best. It's sort of somewhere in the middle. I have no complaints about it though. I think their cash shop overall and how it fits into the GTM is pretty slick. If they would open up their game a little more with a loyalty system rather than just a sub-unlock (like quest rewards and other things that are sub only) then I think it would be one of the best around.

    Well, the gear has empty slots, just like all adaptable gear in the game, which makes it basically a skin. You still need to have the other item to pop the mods out of, or attain the mods seperatly just how you would the gear itself. They are essentially the SWTOR version of skins. The crystals are a base stat on the gear. Wearing the crystals alone do nothing for you, as you still have to obtain the armoring/barrel/hilt, mod, enhancement, and augmentation.

    Access to a lot of SWTOR's content is contained behind a paywall, but you cannot do anything even remotly close to buying endgame gear with it.

    Thats all I wanted to make clear.

    Yeah xp bosts , hotbar unlocks and to a certain extent crystals ( even though they are level 10 ) , I will give him them as a bit weird to sell in a cash shop. Otherwise mounts are everywhere and it isn't just the cash shop that sell rank 3 mounts. Also you forgot the tier 7 ship thing that they removed a few months back. You could buy that the same day as earning it , which caused an uproar. Other than that myself and doodphace are corrret.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

     

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Samhael
    Originally posted by Quorina

    The starter dungeon was awful for me as a healer. I executed mechanics ok, but then got to the last boss and he did a burst of constant damage to the tank and plenty of unavoidable aoe damage to the group. So I quickly casted some aoe heals while leaving hits on the tank and NOPE, tank died quickly. Ok, tried just topping the tank but then dos died. I've played many MMOs and have never encountered something so healer unfriendly in a leveling dungeon. I asked around and apparently I have to be an expert at healing and have really good support to complete this dungeon. I mean, dafuq? This is not a hardcore game, I don't understand this.

    Anyways, I didn't even make it to endgame as I only got my cleric to 54. This was before FTP. FTP will not entice me to come back unless changes are made.

    Yup, it says it all over the place. Unless you are really good (and/or really geared), you're going to need support to heal a Rift dungeon. Experts are tougher. And raids even tougher. This was well known at time of SL launch and hasn't changed. I hope they don't take that part of the challenge away. And while Rift isn't a hardcore game, the Trion devs have gone on record multiple times saying that they weren't going to nerf content. (and right now, that's really about the only thing they have going for them IMO)

    This was kind of my point when I called Rift "WoW for adults." The content is much harder than the snooze fest dungeons in WoW and requires a support healer/buffer unless you completely out gear the content. It was designed this way to promote strategy and thought process beyond the trinity.

    Don't make me laugh, most mmorpgs in existence work this way, you need a dedicated group to handle content appropriate for your level...even the F2P bottom dwellers. But what you do not see are games with little to no support "retweaking" dungeons that have been released already. That would mean players are still experiencing said content to even warrant attention in the first place. A trait if I may add, that happens with mmorpgs being monitored and analyzed by a full team of devs and data miners for all it's content. Has nothing to do with being for adults or non adults.

     

    Anyway the actual point of my post was the troubling statement from the author:

     

    "In the last five months, I've spent less than $10  on RIFT."

     

    Now think about that for a moment...if he continues along that same pattern for a year, Trion would have collected a whopping $20 or less from him in a year. Is this the kind of revenue stream Turbine was looking at from the crowd that demands F2P mmorpgs? No wonder they were facing another round of layoffs.  More importantly is the oxymoronic notion of creating a cash shop where players should feel that what they are buying is worthless, in order to support your entire game... Really? Now I can see why the author only felt the need to spend $10 in five months. Anything more would be ridiculous.

     

    F2P gamers to devs: 

    "Hey guys, make your game F2P and I may play it. Oh but make sure if you have a cash shop to support the game to only include worthless things I wouldn't buy in the first place, kthxbye."

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,459
    First off a full set of tier 1 raid gear including weapons and if you wanna go as far as buying essences pre turban van cost you upto $500 probably slightly more, second all that money they'd terrible players are spending on this gear Goss into trions pockets not a bad thing. Also they completely revamped the chat service and regardless of test servers there is no way unless they had the entire combined player base all on the PTS at once they could have tested to see if there was gonna be a problem like whisper happened...

    At the end of the day the fixes were still quick and we got compensated for the troubles, aion also uses rifts model and hasbeem doing so for 2 or so years and is also doing fine, just released a new content patch, TERA uses the same model n imo has more players now then they did a month after launch. It's a good sustainable model because it doesn't pay wall you out off content or make you pay for things like extra action bars.
  • ZkarnZkarn Member Posts: 4

    I activated a patron sub on coming back to Rift last month. I had previously played from launch for about 6-9 months. I really do enjoy this game. Great fun, lots of content, zone events, raiding and PVP are sensational.

     

    I only ever play one MMO at a time and I always sub to the game I am playing as I generally despise the locked features that you find with most F2P models like SWTOR. Lets be reasonable 15 bucks a month is not a lot for a game you enjoy playing. 

     

    However with Rift I’m at a bit of a decision point.

     

    The sub really doesn’t provide me with that much. 7k loyalty points (which is not really all that much considering what it takes to get to the next loyalty tier) some XP pots, which is nice but not really worth 15 bucks, and a mobile mail box, also not sub worthy. The mobile vendor and banker I already have from veteran status and as far as priority queuing goes I do not notice a difference between myself (sub) and guildes (f2P) when we jump in queues.

     

    I honestly believe that there is not nearly enough reward for subbing.   

     

    I must admit I’m a little shocked that the sub does not include free weekly credits and the Storm Legion Souls. I would have thought that would be a first addition to anyone willing to pay a monthly fee.

     

    So I'm going to cancel paying my sub yet continue to play rift on the F2P model, which is something I have never done before.  My 15 bucks I can use to buy creds and actually get alot more stuff... faster mounts, little gear bonuses ect.... if I choose to.

     

    It is an odd situation I find myself in.

     
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Samhael
    Originally posted by Quorina

    The starter dungeon was awful for me as a healer. I executed mechanics ok, but then got to the last boss and he did a burst of constant damage to the tank and plenty of unavoidable aoe damage to the group. So I quickly casted some aoe heals while leaving hits on the tank and NOPE, tank died quickly. Ok, tried just topping the tank but then dos died. I've played many MMOs and have never encountered something so healer unfriendly in a leveling dungeon. I asked around and apparently I have to be an expert at healing and have really good support to complete this dungeon. I mean, dafuq? This is not a hardcore game, I don't understand this.

    Anyways, I didn't even make it to endgame as I only got my cleric to 54. This was before FTP. FTP will not entice me to come back unless changes are made.

    Yup, it says it all over the place. Unless you are really good (and/or really geared), you're going to need support to heal a Rift dungeon. Experts are tougher. And raids even tougher. This was well known at time of SL launch and hasn't changed. I hope they don't take that part of the challenge away. And while Rift isn't a hardcore game, the Trion devs have gone on record multiple times saying that they weren't going to nerf content. (and right now, that's really about the only thing they have going for them IMO)

    This was kind of my point when I called Rift "WoW for adults." The content is much harder than the snooze fest dungeons in WoW and requires a support healer/buffer unless you completely out gear the content. It was designed this way to promote strategy and thought process beyond the trinity.

    Don't make me laugh, most mmorpgs in existence work this way, you need a dedicated group to handle content appropriate for your level...even the F2P bottom dwellers. But what you do not see are games with little to no support "retweaking" dungeons that have been released already. That would mean players are still experiencing said content to even warrant attention in the first place. A trait if I may add, that happens with mmorpgs being monitored and analyzed by a full team of devs and data miners for all it's content. Has nothing to do with being for adults or non adults.

     

    Anyway the actual point of my post was the troubling statement from the author:

     

    "In the last five months, I've spent less than $10  on RIFT."

     

    Now think about that for a moment...if he continues along that same pattern for a year, Trion would have collected a whopping $20 or less from him in a year. Is this the kind of revenue stream Turbine was looking at from the crowd that demands F2P mmorpgs? No wonder they were facing another round of layoffs.  More importantly is the oxymoronic notion of creating a cash shop where players should feel that what they are buying is worthless, in order to support your entire game... Really? Now I can see why the author only felt the need to spend $10 in five months. Anything more would be ridiculous.

     

    F2P gamers to devs: 

    "Hey guys, make your game F2P and I may play it. Oh but make sure if you have a cash shop to support the game to only include worthless things I wouldn't buy in the first place, kthxbye."

    I am a hardcore F2P supporter (actual F2P, the kind you mock in your last paragraph) and I buy some of that worthless/cosmetic stuff so kindly add in a "IMHO" in there before I take your childish ramblings as an insult.

    image
  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Zkarn

     

     

    I must admit I’m a little shocked that the sub does not include free weekly credits and the Storm Legion Souls. I would have thought that would be a first addition to anyone willing to pay a monthly fee.

     

     

     
     

    One thing the sub should have is the option to go back to the old vendor screens.

     

    When I sub to EQ2 I feel that my sub money is enough to them while I am playing.  In Rift whenever I open a vendor it feels like Trion is putting their hand out saying MORE

     

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,171
    Rift is a well made game and I hope it continues to do well, but the world was always way too bland for me.  There's just something missing that's hard to put your finger on.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391

    I would be surprised if level selling actually becomes a thing. To be honest if it starts going into most MMO's.......I think I will just stop playing them in general. Whats even the point after that.

     

    MMO's have been losing sight of one important detail (At least in my opinion) and that is the experience of leveling up. The adventure of GETTING to max level, not the race.

     

    However I have to blame the community on this happening. So many lately just thinking "I MUST be the best and I MUST be the best now!", that sort of mentality drives me insane.

  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Rift is a well made game and I hope it continues to do well, but the world was always way too bland for me.  There's just something missing that's hard to put your finger on.

    soul

  • SgtPepperUKSgtPepperUK Member UncommonPosts: 30

    As someone who hates f2p in MMOs I have to admit, although I've never played it, everything I hear about Rift's f2p model is that it's very good, which is great for the players (although maybe not, indirectly). However, I'm don't believe it's great for Trion.

     

    I'm not sure how much things have changed since but last year Trion was facing some trouble - Defiance didn't do too well and End of Nations disappeared into a black hole. Looking forward there also seems to be question marks over ArcheAge.

     

    Therefore, Rift is Trion's breadwinner. However, it could be argued that, given some of Trion's financial difficulties, they've not been aggressive enough with the f2p transition.

     

    I dislike what Turbine did with LOTRO when it went f2p. It was aggressive to the point that, even as a subscriber, I felt there was a pressure to use the store above and beyond the 500 points stipend each month. There were things in the store that, really, should have been available to me as a subscriber through in-game means. Needless to say, as soon as a good quality sub-based game came along, in this case FFXIV:ARR, I dropped LOTRO very quickly.

     

    But, with all that said, I can't dispute that Turbine certainly made money with f2p very damned well (despite the recent layoffs, which can be attributed more to a poorly received expansion, Helm's Deep, widely disliked changes to the skills/traits system and a general failure to reinvest more of the increased revenue from the early days of the f2p transition back into the game).

     

    If the consensus that you can play Rift without feeling the need to spend much (like the author of this article) or even anything on it is true, and I've no reason to doubt it, I can't see that as sustainable for Trion in the long term and, therefore, indirectly not good for Rift.

     

    Think about it, nobody wants to die, there's rules to this game son, I'm justified.

  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Rift is a well made game and I hope it continues to do well, but the world was always way too bland for me.  There's just something missing that's hard to put your finger on.

    soul

    uninspired

  • ZkarnZkarn Member Posts: 4
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Zkarn

     

     

    I must admit I’m a little shocked that the sub does not include free weekly credits and the Storm Legion Souls. I would have thought that would be a first addition to anyone willing to pay a monthly fee.

     

     

     
     

    One thing the sub should have is the option to go back to the old vendor screens.

     

    When I sub to EQ2 I feel that my sub money is enough to them while I am playing.  In Rift whenever I open a vendor it feels like Trion is putting their hand out saying MORE

    Which is exactly why Im cancelling the sub yet continuing to play.  I think I will get more benefit by using my 15 bucks a month on credits than I am getting for my sub.

    However this is a complete punt from Trion as there is no guarantee that I will actually spend the $15 or any $$ at all for that matter as gamers like myself, who prefer subs - as in the end they work out cheaper than cash shops - really don’t tend to purchase anything from cash shops at all.

    After 15 years of playing MMO's I am yet to purchase a single item from a cash shop in any game! Rift MAY be the first to actually get me into a cash shop..... however I doubt it. I just find them...... distasteful, for lack of a better word.

    So for most MMO's I am probably a preferred client as I prefer subs. With Rift, perhaps I am the customer they absolutely do not want -or have disregarded- as their subscription benefits are inferior to the stuff of equal value available in the cash shop and as I've said I am unlikely to purchase form a cash shop 

    Can the community confirm, am I really a minority of gamers when it comes to preferring subs over cash shops?

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Samhael
    Originally posted by Quorina

    The starter dungeon was awful for me as a healer. I executed mechanics ok, but then got to the last boss and he did a burst of constant damage to the tank and plenty of unavoidable aoe damage to the group. So I quickly casted some aoe heals while leaving hits on the tank and NOPE, tank died quickly. Ok, tried just topping the tank but then dos died. I've played many MMOs and have never encountered something so healer unfriendly in a leveling dungeon. I asked around and apparently I have to be an expert at healing and have really good support to complete this dungeon. I mean, dafuq? This is not a hardcore game, I don't understand this.

    Anyways, I didn't even make it to endgame as I only got my cleric to 54. This was before FTP. FTP will not entice me to come back unless changes are made.

    Yup, it says it all over the place. Unless you are really good (and/or really geared), you're going to need support to heal a Rift dungeon. Experts are tougher. And raids even tougher. This was well known at time of SL launch and hasn't changed. I hope they don't take that part of the challenge away. And while Rift isn't a hardcore game, the Trion devs have gone on record multiple times saying that they weren't going to nerf content. (and right now, that's really about the only thing they have going for them IMO)

    This was kind of my point when I called Rift "WoW for adults." The content is much harder than the snooze fest dungeons in WoW and requires a support healer/buffer unless you completely out gear the content. It was designed this way to promote strategy and thought process beyond the trinity.

    Don't make me laugh, most mmorpgs in existence work this way, you need a dedicated group to handle content appropriate for your level...even the F2P bottom dwellers. But what you do not see are games with little to no support "retweaking" dungeons that have been released already. That would mean players are still experiencing said content to even warrant attention in the first place. A trait if I may add, that happens with mmorpgs being monitored and analyzed by a full team of devs and data miners for all it's content. Has nothing to do with being for adults or non adults.

     

    Anyway the actual point of my post was the troubling statement from the author:

     

    "In the last five months, I've spent less than $10  on RIFT."

     

    Now think about that for a moment...if he continues along that same pattern for a year, Trion would have collected a whopping $20 or less from him in a year. Is this the kind of revenue stream Turbine was looking at from the crowd that demands F2P mmorpgs? No wonder they were facing another round of layoffs.  More importantly is the oxymoronic notion of creating a cash shop where players should feel that what they are buying is worthless, in order to support your entire game... Really? Now I can see why the author only felt the need to spend $10 in five months. Anything more would be ridiculous.

     

    F2P gamers to devs: 

    "Hey guys, make your game F2P and I may play it. Oh but make sure if you have a cash shop to support the game to only include worthless things I wouldn't buy in the first place, kthxbye."

    I am a hardcore F2P supporter (actual F2P, the kind you mock in your last paragraph) and I buy some of that worthless/cosmetic stuff so kindly add in a "IMHO" in there before I take your childish ramblings as an insult.

    I'm sorry if you feel offended but more than a few F2P players feel exactly that way:

    • They want a mmorpg to be totally free with no restrictions.
    • They want a cash shop that includes things of little gameplay value (worthless as far as usefulness)
    And that's pretty much what I said, IMO. Look I'm a supporter of mmorpgs period. I've played my fair share of P2P, B2P and F2P games. And I support all three types. Hell I fired up my old Dragon Prophet account last night (although it still crashes like hell every 5 minutes) to play but the crashing thing has been plaguing the game since closed beta (I was there). Where's the support?
     
    Personally my stance for payment models went from F2P to P2P. I was never really pro P2P (even when I was paying subs way back when) until I noticed a pattern of devs heavily promoting their cash shops (whether they be cosmetic, RNG or P2W) . And who can blame them? It's when that focus takes away from ongoing gameplay development is where I decided to go back to P2P payment models. At least then I know that kinks are being worked on instead of costumes.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,375
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Anyway the actual point of my post was the troubling statement from the author:

    "In the last five months, I've spent less than $10  on RIFT."

    Now think about that for a moment...if he continues along that same pattern for a year, Trion would have collected a whopping $20 or less from him in a year. Is this the kind of revenue stream Turbine was looking at from the crowd that demands F2P mmorpgs? No wonder they were facing another round of layoffs.  More importantly is the oxymoronic notion of creating a cash shop where players should feel that what they are buying is worthless, in order to support your entire game... Really? Now I can see why the author only felt the need to spend $10 in five months. Anything more would be ridiculous.

    F2P gamers to devs: 

    "Hey guys, make your game F2P and I may play it. Oh but make sure if you have a cash shop to support the game to only include worthless things I wouldn't buy in the first place, kthxbye."

    I am a hardcore F2P supporter (actual F2P, the kind you mock in your last paragraph) and I buy some of that worthless/cosmetic stuff so kindly add in a "IMHO" in there before I take your childish ramblings as an insult.

    I'm sorry if you feel offended but more than a few F2P players feel exactly that way:

    • They want a mmorpg to be totally free with no restrictions.
    • They want a cash shop that includes things of little gameplay value (worthless as far as usefulness)
    And that's pretty much what I said, IMO. Look I'm a supporter of mmorpgs period. I've played my fair share of P2P, B2P and F2P games. And I support all three types. Hell I fired up my old Dragon Prophet account last night (although it still crashes like hell every 5 minutes) to play but the crashing thing has been plaguing the game since closed beta (I was there). Where's the support?
     
    Personally my stance for payment models went from F2P to P2P. I was never really pro P2P (even when I was paying subs way back when) until I noticed a pattern of devs heavily promoting their cash shops (whether they be cosmetic, RNG or P2W) . And who can blame them? It's when that focus takes away from ongoing gameplay development is where I decided to go back to P2P payment models. At least then I know that kinks are being worked on instead of costumes.

    I support the games I play as well. I know there are a few people around here that like to talk about how they never spend money on a game, but that's not how I support artists and entertainment I like. That includes movies and music. If I listen to it I buy it (or pay for a legit service) not pirate it. So I noticed that $10 remark as well.

    With that said, I also don't think every game is worth spending $200 - $300 per year on. Sometimes I spend that much on a game if I'm focused on it and sometimes I don't. I would hope that more people would spend something, but I subscribe to the idea that we should all be spending that much annually for games. In some ways the early novelty of muti-player online gaming has inherited this big budget rock star mentality. They develop with big budgets and expect blockbuster movie revenues over the span of a decade or more. That sort of paradigm needs to go the way of the dodo.

    If the industry can't sustain itself on its current revenue schemes (subscriptions, microtransactions, dlc fees, and gold sales) then they need to rethink the entire situation. Gamers are spending like mad now (we can see annual revenue reports climbing), but that could change if they see their cash investments in F2P, B2P, or P2P games go away as those game close.

    I used to be a huge P2P fan, but that changed as I saw $200+ per year go into a game and not a lot of return on that plus extra fees for DLC expacs. That's in addition to the ludicrous time sinks put in those games just for the purpose of extending subscriptions. Then to have all that investment cutoff when you stop paying just doesn't work for me anymore. Not only that I strongly disagree with you that P2P quality and "kinks" are worked on any more or better than a sub-free game. I'm not seeing that at all in any way shape or form. I still see the same old kinks and crap in P2P games time and again. I saw it in the launch of FFXIV and I can see the same problems in ESO prelaunch. It's not better.

    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • SavairSavair Member UncommonPosts: 11

    Rift was great at launch but ye as many of you have said, it's heading down. Putting it simply, there is no innovation or creativity in there content anymore, it's all been down before in game.

    They can't even support what systems they have in game. they let Pvp die with no content for years and CQ is so boring but they force you to do it for the Buff.

    Since FTP it's all Lockbox RNG or grinding RNG.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    Originally posted by Dalanon

    One thing I don't understand about mmo pricing is it's either $15 a month or it's free to play.  Netflix has millions of subscribers because it hits that sweet spot of $7.99 that people are willing to pay and are less likely to cancel "just in case" they want to use the service.  Why can't an mmo launch with just a cheaper subscription than others?

    This is spot on, I've been saying it for years. Bandwidth and hardware costs are so low now compared to 15 years ago that $15 a month is too much. Forbes broke down WoW's revenue a few years back, and taking into account running costs, wages etc you're still looking at an 80% profit margin.

    80 fucking percent!

    Subscription MMO's could easily half their monthly fee and still make a decent profit, while retaining more players, providing the game is well made of course. Nobody is going to pay for a shit game after all.

     

    We just need someone to not be a greedy bastard and price their sub at a reasonable amount to encourage a new trend in value for money, subscription MMO's. Instead of the "free" to play BS.

  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,181
    Rift's free to play model is the most 'free to play' I've seen yet. While I played the game at launch and once again pre-f2p I've come to enjoy the f2p model just as much. The game still lacks the ability to hold me for more than a couple of weeks to month at a time though, being a hardcore pvper. Yet, I was just sub'ed for 2 months late last year and if they continue to improve the game I'm sure I'll visit Telaria again.
    Fortes Fortuna Iuvat

    18 year MMO veteran 
    Retired PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    Turbines failures have nothing to do with the F2P model.
  • cederhillcederhill Member Posts: 7
    Rift's R2P isn't of much consequence.  Their issues with regards to management and community otherwise, though are a different matter.
  • WynterArwynWynterArwyn Member UncommonPosts: 36

    My husband and I first played Rift during the beta, something about it just didn't really grab us so we didn't stick around. But then we went back sometime later Pre-F2P and played for about 5 or 6 months. Then GW2 launched & we left and played it for about 8 months. We returned to Rift about a month befoe the F2P annoucement and we've been having a blast since. We both sub and we're also guilty of spending money in the cash shop. In January alone we spent about $200 for various reasons. We've bought & sold REX we've expanded our crafting slots and we've purchases some cosmetics.

     

    I don't mind subbing at all because I like the game and I want to support it, so I hope our $30.00 a month helps them with that. In any case as long as they can add good quality content in the future without forcing the cash shop on players I think they will do pretty well. It's when games try to force the cash shop that it really becomes no so much fun.

     

    I was a happy LOTRO subscriber, prior to F2P when turbine switched to F2P I kept hopeful for a while but slowly but surely it happened the cash shop took over the game and runied my beloved Middle Earth MMO.

     

    I really hope Trion does not take the sam route.

  • KorthagKorthag Member UncommonPosts: 36
    No trials? No tricks? No traps? go tell lie someone else. F2P CANT USE AH. No tricks?  yea yea
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