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Why i think PvP only does not work

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,629

its actually quite simple.... most the skillpoints you aquire trough PvE... Quests and exploration

 

So everyone that aims to jump to ten and do strictly PvP from there on, don´t tell us we didn´t tell you...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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Comments

  • Dax360Dax360 Member UncommonPosts: 21

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

  • SatariousSatarious Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,629
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    It does ... you want those shards for sure and them extra skillpoints... espescially if you are a min maxer..

     

    I allready predicted whining PvPers on these boards because the game forces them to PvE to get those skillpoints they need for PvP...

     

    and having 60 or 70 or maybe 100 skillpoints for a PvPer will feel like a loose loose if those PvE ers all have above 200 and some near to 300

     

     

     

    In the end this game works best for players that love both the PE as the PvP part....   and i am very affraid that most of the PvP only crowd will leave the battlefield with a single word in their minds..... Unfair...  because there is no special PvP armor and they dont get a gear advantage and they have to live with a bare minimum of skillpoints..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    If you want to play PvP only, you dont play mmorpgs. You play PvP only games.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,629
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    If you want to play PvP only, you dont play mmorpgs. You play PvP only games.

    That would be wise.....

    But none of the PvP only games have the depth and combat mechanics of some of the MMOs

    And so many hardcore PvPers come to these games for PvP only

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Dax360Dax360 Member UncommonPosts: 21
    It'll just be a case of either being a very focused/limited PvP only character and never leaving Cyrodiil after hitting 10. Or PvPing for a while, then running around lower level areas just to pick up the Sky Shards before heading on back for more PvP. Even that way they'll still be missing out on quite a few, but it won't be as bad as it would be.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,777
    PvE, pvp w/e just make fun systems. Who cares about the irritable nerd that refuse this or that. 
  • odienmanodienman Member UncommonPosts: 60
    I'm a mainly pvper and I see little issue here.  Example, if I only did pvp at lvl 25 I'll have 25 skill points, and only 12 skill slots.  There is 15-20 skill points available through quests and Skyshards.  Thats 45 skill points for 12 skills x2 for a morph on each and about 20 more for your armor/racial/class skills passives.  It will only take a few hours to do some quests and dungeons (and most MMO pvpers do will at least find a little fun and tolerate the need to invest a few hours in PvE) to find another 20-30.  I think you should be fine for a full PvP loadout with very very minimal investment in PvE.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,777
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.
  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    If you want to play PvP only, you dont play mmorpgs. You play PvP only games.

    That would be wise.....

    But none of the PvP only games have the depth and combat mechanics of some of the MMOs

    And so many hardcore PvPers come to these games for PvP only

     

    The amount of PvP only games is mindboggling, if you start counting from Chivalry medieval war and go the full circle through every PvP game. But flocking to well rounded mmorpgs just for PvP, I guess it might have to do with community and easier ways to get organized in-game rather than outside of the game like many PvP only games require you to do, because they dont have "social hubs" etc.

     

    Clearly TESO is not build to suit very well PvP-only style of play, and I'm glad for that, I like mmorpgs being full well rounded experiences rather than two separate games under one name, in that case, you the customer end up with a game that is sliced in half.

     

    One of the strongest features of TESO to me is the game not having separate gear, stats, and currency for PvP. It makes the game more immersive and also you dont feel punished on the "other half of the slice" when doing the other. A game where people are not separated into 2 different camps, PvE and PvP, yes please, it's a huge longevity boost for me.

  • KhaliaKhalia Member Posts: 13

    there is a simple answer to this thread...

     

    THERE ARE OVER 50 SKYSHARDS TO BE FOUND IN CYRRODIL

  • DignaDigna Member UncommonPosts: 1,994
    Originally posted by Khalia

    there is a simple answer to this thread...

     

    THERE ARE OVER 50 SKYSHARDS TO BE FOUND IN CYRRODIL

    I don't as much of an issue. I'll PvP (and do the PvE content in the zone) but for my 1st character it will mostly be PvE.

    There's nothing stopping PvPers from dropping out of PvP into PvE to go round up a few skyshard/SPs if the feel they need to round out a build a bit faster (much faster if they go into the lower level zones 'outleveled'.

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805

    I'd much rather play a game where PvE is the road to PvP, than have a raid or die MMO. I'm done with that

     

    The more I hear the more I'm certain I'm going to like ESO

  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    That's not strictly accurate.

    It was the addition of more PvE grinding after we thought we'd completed templates that caused the issue. If we it had been included from the start it wouldn't have been a problem for most people.

    The devs clearly want as many people as possible to experience as much of their hard work as possible. The incentive for this is that most of the sky shards are in the PvE portion of the game.

    Now, that being said, you can still get enough skill points through leveling in PvP and sky shards in the PvP zones that you can get an effective build. You just won't necessarily be able to have 3 or 4 viable builds on the same character or have any spare points for crafting skills.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,254

    pvp is never fair in mmorpg, gear and class difrence have big effect.

    when i want fair pvp and be able solo pvp, i just play counter srike or other fps game. u can always aim to head make difrence.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,629
    Originally posted by Khalia

    there is a simple answer to this thread...

     

    THERE ARE OVER 50 SKYSHARDS TO BE FOUND IN CYRRODIL

    thats 17 skillpointsd from over 300 in total..     Now do your math again..

     

    You will not have a good performing build withouth PvE, which for most players aint a problem...  because as Bully said, they will enjoy both PvE and PvP...

     

    But strictly PvP?  and thats wjhat this topic is about....    Dont see them stick around for to long.

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DrDwarfDrDwarf Member Posts: 475

    I think in a virtual world, the idea you can level almost exclusively in PVP is nonsensical.

    PVP should be something your character grows up to do and your character should be required to be a significant part of the world in which the pvp takes part.

    Now ok there needs to be an overlap (because that makes some sense) but letting people jump into pvp at level 10 shouldnt be it IMO.  

    Given that  they need to make sure you can't outlevel PVE people (for equivalent effort)  and you can't end up in better gear.

    It is a good idea to compel PVE players to have to do some PVP to round off their characters too.  I think it is nonsense pve players are allowed to not be attacked in large parts of the PVE world  for example.

    I found the GW2 set up stupid.

    Allowing you to go into Battlegrounds at level 1 in the best gear ... makes no sense to an MMORPG regardless of how much sense it makes to people wanting Tekken.    If you want to do that .. sell it as a different game.

    In many things in life you earn the right to compete..

     

     

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,578

    Doesn't it depend on how you spend you skill points? If you spend them wisely I don't see how you couldn't be l33t in PvP.

    image
  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,095
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    It does ... you want those shards for sure and them extra skillpoints... espescially if you are a min maxer..

     

    I allready predicted whining PvPers on these boards because the game forces them to PvE to get those skillpoints they need for PvP...

     

    and having 60 or 70 or maybe 100 skillpoints for a PvPer will feel like a loose loose if those PvE ers all have above 200 and some near to 300

     

     

     

    In the end this game works best for players that love both the PE as the PvP part....   and i am very affraid that most of the PvP only crowd will leave the battlefield with a single word in their minds..... Unfair...  because there is no special PvP armor and they dont get a gear advantage and they have to live with a bare minimum of skillpoints..

    I've yet to ever see or hear a complaint of any Hardcore to do something to give them an edge.  I feel your views are not aimed at anyone we would consider hardcore especially when it comes to PvP.  The only people I see skipping the PvE to get straight to the PvP are the ones you and I know as casuals.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,095
    Originally posted by DrDwarf

    I think in a virtual world, the idea you can level almost exclusively in PVP is nonsensical.

    PVP should be something your character grows up to do and your character should be required to be a significant part of the world in which the pvp takes part.

    Now ok there needs to be an overlap (because that makes some sense) but letting people jump into pvp at level 10 shouldnt be it IMO.  

    Given that  they need to make sure you can't outlevel PVE people (for equivalent effort)  and you can't end up in better gear.

    It is a good idea to compel PVE players to have to do some PVP to round off their characters too.  I think it is nonsense pve players are allowed to not be attacked in large parts of the PVE world  for example.

    I found the GW2 set up stupid.

    Allowing you to go into Battlegrounds at level 1 in the best gear ... makes no sense to an MMORPG regardless of how much sense it makes to people wanting Tekken.    If you want to do that .. sell it as a different game.

    In many things in life you earn the right to compete..

     

     

    Ahh so you feel forced non-consensual PvP is the right thing to do?  Let's just say you're 100% wrong in everything you just posted!

     

    Let us not start this debate again, please I implore you.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • DrDwarfDrDwarf Member Posts: 475

    How much non consensual pvp happens in the real world when an army rolls onto the borders of your country ?

     

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,095
    Originally posted by DrDwarf

    How much non consensual pvp happens in the real world when an army rolls onto the borders of your country ?

     

    I'll let you know when it happens.  Until then I'll continue to enjoy a "GAME".

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • LazzaroLazzaro Member UncommonPosts: 548

    I like my PvP and Pve interconnected. Now a days it's just instance crap which I hate.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,377
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    its actually quite simple.... most the skillpoints you aquire trough PvE... Quests and exploration

     

    So everyone that aims to jump to ten and do strictly PvP from there on, don´t tell us we didn´t tell you...

    I think for most people.....the ESO experience will not be an  EITHER OR one. The AvA'rs will mainly but not exclusively AvA. They will perhaps craft...and pve some to add variety to their activities.

    I can also expect some pve'rs  go and try AvA and be surprised by how fun it can be.

    ESO is working hard to make the entire game experience inviting to all types of players.

  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Are skyshards always in the same place, or are they spawned in random locations? If they are static, people will come out with maps of exactly where each one is pretty soon after the game releases. So, if you want to do strictly PvP you can just look up a map and run around to grab the shards every once in a while. It's not that big of a deal.
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