Originally posted by PaulOtt Originally posted by Ramonski7 Well it seems as though a majority of posters here get the point I am trying to make. And some even got the connection to the type of skills I was talking about when I chose my topic statement. Now as long as posters here understand that, we can continue foward in the debate about how GW players(or any current MMO players for that matter) are not and should not be put on the same level as twitch-based players in terms of comparing skillfulness. Here's where I disagree with you. I think people that excel at games like Starcraft, Warcraft3, should be recognized for their skill at the same level as FPS players, provided there is reasonable competition for the games. Just like I think Grandmaster chess players should be applauded for their skill as well as NBA players. They both excel at competive games with a fair amount of stiff competition. I think you're being somewhat narrow in what you define as skill if you think those that play twitch games shouldn't be seen on the same level as other types of gamers. (Yes, I'm putting Guild Wars on the same level as Starcraft and Warcraft3.)
I see there continues to be a level of confusion that even I cannot seem to make clear.....
What you are talking about is respect. And wanting the same level of respect across the board for all players no matter what game they are playing. On that subject I am not debating, it holds no bearing here. What I'm talking about is twitch based skills, something it seems many brash GW players are bragging about and seem to forget what that means to most gamers. And when I say most gamers I mean those with a broad scope of experience with all types of games and not just MMOs.
To me when the word skills(a term mostly used by FPS/fighting game/platform game players) is used I'm thinking the raw/practiced abilities of a player's physical adeptness when compared and pitted against another player. Unfortunately GW does not offer this level of PvP. And please keep in mind that PvP is not only limited to MMOs......what a lot of gamers here tend to forget. What type of PvP GW does offer is a hybrid of strategy and teamwork and I believe those are the main skills that will determine most winners.
These types of skills exist in all MMOs to some extent, but over-emphasizing GW as needing more skills compared to other MMOs is misleading to me. If you think about it WoW, FFXI, SWG, DAoC and all other MMOs require these skills in order to gain victory. But because of GW's lack of typical MMO content, players tend to focus on the only thing they can: PvP and thus they use the term skills when describing what is needed to play. And I say it's not skills in the sense of what many others are generally thinking.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Knowledge is a must for any skill. Skill itself is the ability to apply with effort a situation that allows you to do what you want with effiiciency that could be far superior to that of others. That Guild Wars does.
That's not called skill, that's called THINKING.
To say Guild Wars doesn't require skill is like saying neither does magic the gathering and that is simply not true.
The type of skills we are referring to are twitch-base skills, not mental/strategic
In real life things are tossed our way we had no clue was comming. The real skill is how well you deal with the hand you got.
[i]That's called planning for the worst and wishing for the best.[i]
In alot of ways FPS requires less skills simply because everyone is on an equal playing field. (for the most part. Knowledge playing a huge part IF you know the map better than your opponent.)
Now you are applying your opinion of what type of skills (mental) you believe are important to you and in turn using that to pelt the lack of it needed to play FPSs. Can you say reversed condescending?
True skill is going into the unknown and being able to continually hold your own.
True skill to me is a mixture of talent, mental alertness, adaptability, experience and physical adeptness that can only be measured in my opinion through PvP found in FPSs and other twitch based games
[/b][/quote]
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
the only MMORPG that i know of currently that takes skill would be RYL:PotE becuase you can jump around so they can miss you you can dodge and select when yo uwant to attack. but that still isnt all skill.
GW is easy and has no content. Anyone with a brain got ascended by sunday night and asked for a refund by tuesday morning.
-- Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Originally posted by grimboj Why did you post this flame-fest?GW is easy and has no content. Anyone with a brain got ascended by sunday night and asked for a refund by tuesday morning.
Because I LIKE GW. Hell I will give any game a shot as long as it's not complete trash and GW is not trash. A lot of heart and effort went into making it a competitive MMO aimed for one of my favorite types of content (PvP), but I was sorely disappointed with the lack of "hands-on" skills needed to PvP. I was hoping for a more arcade-like combat system, but it's just as involving as other typical MMOs with more emphasis on teamwork rather than skill.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I read this thread and I think you are wrong if you say that it doesn't require skill. You are right in the point if you consider it doesn't take much skill to "beat" the story missions, but this game is all about PvP.
All that "define skill" talk is valid to me. "Knowledge and Skill" go hand in hand. When you reach lvl 20 in guild wars....it is just the beginning. Wait till there are more famous guilds out and there are huge guild fights. You can't tell me that planning a seige on another guild hall doesn't take Strategy AND Skill (if you have seen them, you should know).
Guild Wars is fresh and original. Dont screw up people's perception of a good game by saying it requires no skill. Having "skill" at something is way to broad of an idea to be summed up by 1 player who has his/her own perception of skill.
I usually hear post something like this after they get their ass kicked in a game. Dont hate because you got pwned.
Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)
Originally posted by Chonka I read this thread and I think you are wrong if you say that it doesn't require skill. You are right in the point if you consider it doesn't take much skill to "beat" the story missions, but this game is all about PvP. All that "define skill" talk is valid to me. "Knowledge and Skill" go hand in hand. When you reach lvl 20 in guild wars....it is just the beginning. Wait till there are more famous guilds out and there are huge guild fights. You can't tell me that planning a seige on another guild hall doesn't take Strategy AND Skill (if you have seen them, you should know). Guild Wars is fresh and original. Dont screw up people's perception of a good game by saying it requires no skill. Having "skill" at something is way to broad of an idea to be summed up by 1 player who has his/her own perception of skill. I usually hear post something like this after they get their ass kicked in a game. Dont hate because you got pwned.
Please try not to come in here and half read a thread and try to come up with your diluted reasoning behind my topic. I answered this attack further up in the thread:
Originally posted by Roin Could I please have the 2 minutes of my life I wasted reading your post back. GW not skill based? LOL Maybe you need to go play it some more.
Originally posted by Ramonski7 Sorry that's your lost and since you like wasting your time so much without thinking about what you are doing BEFORE you continue, keep thinking GW is making you a SKILLED player.:::: I get the feeling you won't realize that either until it's too late....try getting a refund from NCsoft then.::::
Originally posted by Roin No i'm sorry that you tried to pick what you felt were the most 'uber' skills for your class. Then got your ass handed to you, and felt the need. To come here and proclaim that GWs isn't a skilled based. I'm sorry that Arena.net made a game that you just lack 'skill' in.I wash my hands of this thread. Because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Originally posted by Ramonski7 Wash your hands...and while you're at it wash your face and mouth too. I'm not spiteful if I get my ass served to me in any game. Ass-whuppin is what it takes for you to further develop your skills, but in MMOs it just tells you to use this skill instead of that one next time.....
Also I never said strategy wasn't a skill, only that it's not the type of skill USUALLY use to measure a players adeptness in games. And as far as screwing up anyone's perception of what GW requires a player to have as far as skill......all the extreme fanboys have done that with their talk of GW needing MORE skills than other MMOs.....which is so far from the truth it hurts.
Now let this topic RIP I think I've proven where I stand on this matter....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Actually you DO need skill for GW, you may have the right equipment, skills, and classes for the tombs, but you need to know how to USE them, thus, you need SKILL, (mostly for Guild Stuff if they are organized)
Originally posted by Eva-01 Actually you DO need skill for GW, you may have the right equipment, skills, and classes for the tombs, but you need to know how to USE them, thus, you need SKILL, (mostly for Guild Stuff if they are organized)
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
Originally posted by bobbler Originally posted by Eva-01 Actually you DO need skill for GW, you may have the right equipment, skills, and classes for the tombs, but you need to know how to USE them, thus, you need SKILL, (mostly for Guild Stuff if they are organized)
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
I can clearly tell that you have not played Guild wars for either 2+ hours or never even played Guild Wars before.
Originally posted by Xzaro Originally posted by bobbler Originally posted by Eva-01 Actually you DO need skill for GW, you may have the right equipment, skills, and classes for the tombs, but you need to know how to USE them, thus, you need SKILL, (mostly for Guild Stuff if they are organized)
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
I can clearly tell that you have not played Guild wars for either 2+ hours or never even played Guild Wars before.
i believe you are incorrect. i have a W/M got to level 20 and got bored because it sucks and people just screw around because they dont have to play monthly. so maybe if you pulled yoru head out of your butt you might have read it correctly.
Comments
I see there continues to be a level of confusion that even I cannot seem to make clear.....
What you are talking about is respect. And wanting the same level of respect across the board for all players no matter what game they are playing. On that subject I am not debating, it holds no bearing here. What I'm talking about is twitch based skills, something it seems many brash GW players are bragging about and seem to forget what that means to most gamers. And when I say most gamers I mean those with a broad scope of experience with all types of games and not just MMOs.
To me when the word skills(a term mostly used by FPS/fighting game/platform game players) is used I'm thinking the raw/practiced abilities of a player's physical adeptness when compared and pitted against another player. Unfortunately GW does not offer this level of PvP. And please keep in mind that PvP is not only limited to MMOs......what a lot of gamers here tend to forget. What type of PvP GW does offer is a hybrid of strategy and teamwork and I believe those are the main skills that will determine most winners.
These types of skills exist in all MMOs to some extent, but over-emphasizing GW as needing more skills compared to other MMOs is misleading to me. If you think about it WoW, FFXI, SWG, DAoC and all other MMOs require these skills in order to gain victory. But because of GW's lack of typical MMO content, players tend to focus on the only thing they can: PvP and thus they use the term skills when describing what is needed to play. And I say it's not skills in the sense of what many others are generally thinking.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
[quote]Originally posted by Realmreaver
[b]
Originally posted by Egold
Knowledge is a must for any skill. Skill itself is the ability to apply with effort a situation that allows you to do what you want with effiiciency that could be far superior to that of others. That Guild Wars does.
That's not called skill, that's called THINKING.
To say Guild Wars doesn't require skill is like saying neither does magic the gathering and that is simply not true.
The type of skills we are referring to are twitch-base skills, not mental/strategic
In real life things are tossed our way we had no clue was comming. The real skill is how well you deal with the hand you got.
[i]That's called planning for the worst and wishing for the best.[i]
In alot of ways FPS requires less skills simply because everyone is on an equal playing field. (for the most part. Knowledge playing a huge part IF you know the map better than your opponent.)
Now you are applying your opinion of what type of skills (mental) you believe are important to you and in turn using that to pelt the lack of it needed to play FPSs. Can you say reversed condescending?
True skill is going into the unknown and being able to continually hold your own.
True skill to me is a mixture of talent, mental alertness, adaptability, experience and physical adeptness that can only be measured in my opinion through PvP found in FPSs and other twitch based games
[/b][/quote]
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
the only MMORPG that i know of currently that takes skill would be RYL:PotE becuase you can jump around so they can miss you you can dodge and select when yo uwant to attack. but that still isnt all skill.
Why did you post this flame-fest?
GW is easy and has no content.
Anyone with a brain got ascended by sunday night and asked for a refund by tuesday morning.
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Because I LIKE GW.
Hell I will give any game a shot as long as it's not complete trash and GW is not trash. A lot of heart and effort went into making it a competitive MMO aimed for one of my favorite types of content (PvP), but I was sorely disappointed with the lack of "hands-on" skills needed to PvP. I was hoping for a more arcade-like combat system, but it's just as involving as other typical MMOs with more emphasis on teamwork rather than skill.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I read this thread and I think you are wrong if you say that it doesn't require skill. You are right in the point if you consider it doesn't take much skill to "beat" the story missions, but this game is all about PvP.
All that "define skill" talk is valid to me. "Knowledge and Skill" go hand in hand. When you reach lvl 20 in guild wars....it is just the beginning. Wait till there are more famous guilds out and there are huge guild fights. You can't tell me that planning a seige on another guild hall doesn't take Strategy AND Skill (if you have seen them, you should know).
Guild Wars is fresh and original. Dont screw up people's perception of a good game by saying it requires no skill. Having "skill" at something is way to broad of an idea to be summed up by 1 player who has his/her own perception of skill.
I usually hear post something like this after they get their ass kicked in a game. Dont hate because you got pwned.
Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired
Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom
Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)
Please try not to come in here and half read a thread and try to come up with your diluted reasoning behind my topic. I answered this attack further up in the thread:
Originally posted by Ramonski7
:: I get the feeling you won't realize that either until it's too late....try getting a refund from NCsoft then.::
::
Sorry that's your lost and since you like wasting your time so much without thinking about what you are doing BEFORE you continue, keep thinking GW is making you a SKILLED player.::
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Wash your hands...and while you're at it wash your face and mouth too. I'm not spiteful if I get my ass served to me in any game. Ass-whuppin is what it takes for you to further develop your skills, but in MMOs it just tells you to use this skill instead of that one next time.....
Also I never said strategy wasn't a skill, only that it's not the type of skill USUALLY use to measure a players adeptness in games. And as far as screwing up anyone's perception of what GW requires a player to have as far as skill......all the extreme fanboys have done that with their talk of GW needing MORE skills than other MMOs.....which is so far from the truth it hurts.
Now let this topic RIP I think I've proven where I stand on this matter....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
This thread may be diluted...but my reasoning is not.
Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired
Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom
Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
I can clearly tell that you have not played Guild wars for either 2+ hours or never even played Guild Wars before.
left clicking on random buttons and double clicking on armor is no skill as i said before it is more like rock paper scissors. you just need the right class to defeat hte other class. theres no skill at all needed.
I can clearly tell that you have not played Guild wars for either 2+ hours or never even played Guild Wars before.
i believe you are incorrect. i have a W/M got to level 20 and got bored because it sucks and people just screw around because they dont have to play monthly. so maybe if you pulled yoru head out of your butt you might have read it correctly.