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So Gabe, tell us how Microsoft is so evil again,..

HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26240140

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1y0kc1/vac_now_reads_all_the_domains_you_have_visited/

 

That's a decent breach of privacy, IMO.   I expected some sort of a breach of privacy with Steam.  I guess I've always expect this sort of thing with any  large companies based around online services. Good ole Gabe seems to think he should be the exception while he has ranted on and on about how evil Microsoft is. In the information gathering arena it's fairly light.  Google no doubt has that covered in spades. Don't know that it bothers me a whole lot. Mildly uncomfortable when thinking about it sometimes.  I guess it's just surprising how full of shit Gabe's been all these years and true colors creep out once in awhile. He's catches a lot flak for various stuff from time to time. I don't even think it would be a big enough deal to waste time on if it wasn't for the fact that Gabe loves harping on other companies bad habits.

 

I do have a few Steam games. Not many.  Can't say that I've loaded it up lately. Though to be completely truthful I haven't played much of anything in a few weeks.

 

Sorry if this is a re-post.

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Comments

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    If I recall its 60 days DNS cache , ms evil? He must know know that ms has been supplying a way to disable all this or adjust for what at least a decade . I didn't read everything so maybe I read the wrong thread in reddit. But I don't sweat it DNS is very easy to control by user (I wish host file was as easy (dam nuisance if you ask me ,benefit everybody but the one owning the hardware)
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    You are correct. It's not that big of a deal on it's own. However it really stood out to me because Gabe has ranted on and on (in the past) about how bad Microsoft for whatever reason. 
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    You are correct. It's not that big of a deal on it's own. However it really stood out to me because Gabe has ranted on and on (in the past) about how bad Microsoft for whatever reason. 

    Well, apparently Gabe explained why VAC uses it, what was MS reason?

    I don't care if he can justify it to make sense to him. It could be used to collect metrics on people. No doubt they are collecting them  in some form and extent using whatever method. Most companies online probably do. There's 0 reason for any of his software to be looking at what sites I visit, ever. Though when thinking about it does it matter anymore?  I don't know that he's specifically harped on MS for this.  Though he's harped on them for similar stuff and their so called bad habits in the past. He's caught a lot of flak for those videos as well.  What site I visit doesn't determine if I am doing wrong or even what my intent is.

     

    I use Steam a little. This isn't really a "I hate Steam sort of thing."  More like a Gabe has said we shouldn't trust a company like Microsoft for whatever dam reason but when it comes to Gabe, everyone should trust him to be on the up and up just because he says so.  It just rubbed me the wrong way for someone wanting to break everyone's bonds from oppressive companies like Microsoft.

     

    It is me making an mountain out of an ant hill. It's just funny.. Gabe,"Trust me, don't trust them".

     

     

     

    Just for perspective and my personal experience with hacks.  I've only ever used one aimbot and it was more of a see how it works. I played around with it for about a week.  Medal of Honor Allied Assault

    Several years after it had been out it was pretty obvious people were using something because the community was so small at this point. Most were at least using hit-box visuals wall hacks or a map that showed where everyone was. I decided to look around and see what I could find. I find this neat little bot that did everything. Could turn boxes on or off without turning on the aimbot.  Could see through walls as if they were glass (I personally didn't like this).  All sorts of things very well put together and with great options.

    The neatest setting I found though were for the aimbot specifically. I could adjust the snap to a point that no one could tell that I had it on. It wouldn't snap until my cursor had gone onto the hitbox. I had to aim it there. Then it would snap.  I could also turn on a break away option and set the sensitivity for that. How much movement of my mouse ti took to break the snap. It helped it look fluid. Basically i set it so that I got about half a second longer to fire and make a kill. Most couldn't tell I was using it. I also turned off head shots. I wasn't dominating the killboards, though always near the top.  

    It actually led me to believe that most people couldn't actually tell who was or wasn't using an aimbot.  The only time I got called on it I messed up and gave it away.  One guy left on the map hiding in a building in some obscure spot that no one was finding. When I got close enough I spotted the hitboxes ran up to him and dropped a grenade at his location exactly  where he was sitting. He called me on it, I got kicked and he was correct.  Only that person ever correctly called me on it. It sure as hell wasn't for lack of people accusing others of cheating either. There was so much of that going on and never was my name mentioned.

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Member UncommonPosts: 314

    You know what the difference is?  One word: Trust.

     

    People trust Valve.  People do not trust Microsoft.  

     

    And it is as simple as that.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus

    You know what the difference is?  One word: Trust.

     

    People trust Valve.  People do not trust Microsoft.  

     

    And it is as simple as that.

    Steam delivers convenience, would be a bigger reason as to why people put up with it.   It definitely has a large following of fans who think Valve can do no wrong.

     

    In my opinion.

  • RzepRzep Member UncommonPosts: 767
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

  • tyfontyfon Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

    "I tried marihuana once but I did not inhale"

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by tyfon
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

    "I tried marihuana once but I did not inhale"

    Me running an aimbot for a week in 04-06 time period has little to do this. It was just a neat experience that proved to me that most people then or now don't know how fine tunable bots are other than here-say. They toss around hacking accusations so freely but have no clue wth they are talking about. I can't pin the exact year because it was a long time ago. The game was old enough to be down to only two main servers and only at certain times.

    You trying to hold up some sort of fake morale supremacy.

    Tell me how knowing what sites I visit shows intent. 

     

    Edit: BTW, I am not against anti cheat software genius.  I think looking at a persons browsing habits is a bit far.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,119

    Any time you run an executable on your computer, you give it access to do an awful lot of things, some of which would be rather detrimental to you.  Even just visiting a web page with a browser that allows JavaScript, Flash, or any of quite a few other things to run gives the owner of that web site access to do quite a lot to your computer--and to those that the site delegates this to, such as advertisers.

    As privacy invasions go, taking MD5 hashes of various things in your DNS cache and only doing anything about it if they match the hashes of known cheat sites is awfully mild.  If that sort of thing bothers you, then I'd strongly recommend that you greatly curtail your online activity, such as by blocking all browser activity except for a whitelist of a handful of web sites that you trust.  And definitely no social media sites; if you use Facebook regularly, any hopes of online privacy for you are already long gone.

    Now, I'm not recommending that everyone get offline.  My point is, if you already accept a hundred much worse privacy violations every day, then getting upset about Valve checking your DNS cache looking for cheat sites is fighting the wrong battle.

  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,119

    If it helps to make the gaming community better, then why not.

    The only problem is when it makes things worse than better. For example what ever info is collected is exaggerated for a reason for VAC to punish.

    Also a lot of video games have this practise of collecting info. Origin for example has something similar. I think MS has something similar as well since it is partially owned by the US government.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • SpawnbladeSpawnblade Member UncommonPosts: 204
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    You are correct. It's not that big of a deal on it's own. However it really stood out to me because Gabe has ranted on and on (in the past) about how bad Microsoft for whatever reason. 

    Microsoft would've sold the data.

     

    I could care less if Valve knows what porn I watch.  So long as they're not profiting off my voyeurism.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Hulluck

    It is me making an mountain out of an ant hill. 

    At least you're aware you're doing it. That's a step in the right direction. image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

     

    "I don't hack minus that one instance".  Seriously?  You seriously expect anyone to buy that?  You only hacked one time.  Right.  Talk about trust issues.  Call me weird, but I would trust someone who simply admits to hacking and cheating on a regular basis, or who admits that they hacked or cheated on a regular basis and have now stopped over someone who says they "only did it once".

     

    That doesn't change the whole VAC thing.  I haven't seen the links, but presumably Valve explained why they are collecting the information and what they are doing with it.  It's also apparently a common enough thing that I'm surprised that there isn't a tool to flush the DNS cache, or flush it of specific domains on a very regular basis.

     

    That said, all these things that companies do are trade offs.  Do we allow them to see our DNS cache to make sure that when we hop into CoD we don't get head shotted from across the map?  As a consumer, how much do we care that Valve or MIcrosoft is looking at our DNS cache, especially if it can be tied to a specific account?  What are the odds that Valve is looking for things other than hacker subscription services?  What are the odds that Microsoft is looking for general information versus specific information?  It seems less likely that Valve is looking for general, marketing information than Microsoft.  Valve has all the specific marketing information it needs with the sales and played time of the games they sell.  Microsoft is trying to compete with Google with advertising.  Microsoft is more likely to be the evil one here.

     

    Though, Valve should have some sort of privacy policy, and I would be surprised if in all those things you click through in Steam there isn't some sort of privacy agreement somewhere, even if it just says they can do anything they want.

     

    **

     

    Heck, just a tool that prevents your DNS cache from ever remembering certain domains for more than 60 seconds.  It's not like the extra 50 milliseconds is going to make that much difference in surfing to all those porn and hacker sites.  I'm a little surprised that DNS snooping is even useful.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

     

     

    long winded post ignored because of your opening statement.

    Yes, I do expect you to believe it.

    You are trying to come up with some morale outrage over me using an aimbot 6-8 years ago out of curiosity.  That's a long time ago. The servers were dead. The game was dead. There was little risk in seeing first hand how they work instead of hear-say.  If you think I am coding my own you obviously need to look at my post history. Have you never done something to see how it works? Never taken something apart so you can figure out how it works?   Yes?  Good! So have I. I don't like ruining others experience.  Half these guys, the ones left playing were actually already up to no good.  I don't know what they were doing but definitely something like a radar or maybe hitboxes so they could see where people were through walls. If I remember correctly that's what initially spurred me into wanting to see how they work.  I don't openly accuse people of doing stuff but you know when you get one of those feelings that something just isn't right.. Yeah..  I don't remember in great detail so having to piece together what I do recall. I do remember how it worked and the functionality of it was far beyond what I expected.  So if you can't take it at face value what I said then don't even bother. 

    It was just a story that popped up when I was thinking about this whole situation is all. I don't have $100's or $1000's of dollars to throw away on games attempted to get away with hacks. I don't want to ruin others experiences either. That said and given that this isn't about evil anti cheats but rather I thought it was odd they were looking at where you have been was odd.  I type in Nuclear fallout in Google. Am I planning on setting off a dirty bomb or nuke....

    You're making a mountain out of a ant hill.  Coming off as a right ass if I do say so. Apologies but dam nothing I have said is all that far out there.  

    Just got done playing some TF2.. The horror! (just to fuel your paranoia a little.) I still suck btw. :)

    I'm not against anti cheat. Just thought it was odd that they were looking at sites. Someone could come in and start dropping links on a gaming forum sending people to sites that might get them partially flagged. You don't think there's people out there that would do that just for kicks?  How about just curious? Looking at where you have been doesn't show motives or intent. It just says you were there.  It's not that big of a deal though because I can't say that I've looked at such a site in years. Gabe likes to go on his rants from time to time.  So I made a post as soon as I saw it. I've acknowledged I made an mountain out of an ant hill.

    EDIT:  late edit but.. I'm going to apologize if I offended you in this post. Not going to change it.  It's just people are so cynical about anything anymore. Even in real life. It annoys the hell out of me. Drives me nuts actually.  Every little thing.

    I realize the way I word things tends to rub people the wrong way from time to time. I don't do it on purpose usually. I've already admitted it was me have a knee jerk reaction as far as Gabe goes. I don't hate the man I don't even know him. I just he's in the past harped on other companies doing iffy things. Stuff that Valve essentially does themselves.

     

     

    Quizzical, you've always made good posts and generally straight to the point.   Like I said probably wouldn't have said much if it just wasn't for him being so outspoken at times about other companies practices.  It was a spur of the moment post when I saw it. If I am going to be truthful.  I know it's hardly a big deal and definitely not against anti cheat measures. Well aware as far as privacy goes at this point this is way down there. That said I do have fairly limited habits online.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,119
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    I don't do it on purpose usually. I've already admitted it was me have a knee jerk reaction as far as Gabe goes. I don't hate the man I don't even know him. I just he's in the past harped on other companies doing iffy things. Stuff that Valve essentially does themselves.

    If you drive 65 on the freeway and criticize someone who drives 100, that doesn't make you a hypocrite.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    I don't do it on purpose usually. I've already admitted it was me have a knee jerk reaction as far as Gabe goes. I don't hate the man I don't even know him. I just he's in the past harped on other companies doing iffy things. Stuff that Valve essentially does themselves.

    If you drive 65 on the freeway and criticize someone who drives 100, that doesn't make you a hypocrite.

    Who said it did? If you do the exact same thing you criticize other companies of doing though. Which he has it what's always rubbed me wrong about him in a way. He caught a ton of flak for it in the past. Even on this site.  I guess it's always just sat in the back of my mind and from someone who is suppose to be "the better option" according to him. When it turns out nothing but business as usual.  It's not a bad thing but don't claim to be a saint either.  

     

    Looking at what sites someone visits doesn't prove intent. Were they pointed there some how? Were they curious. I hate to go down this road because I have already admitted that it is fairly harmless compared to what most stuff does anymore. But at what point does it stop.. Do we keep giving up little by little for that warm fuzzy feeling? Is it 100% safe that no one can create malware and manipulate this in some way. I don't think this is exactly tin foil territory but if I were going to be honest there's far easier methods as well.

     

    Edit: Can I ask you this. You've mentioned that you don't use Steam. May I ask why.. I didn't use it for the longest because I saw it as a breach of privacy. I stayed away from it for years.  Keep in mind there is only a handful of sites I visit online. I don't use social media. I don't do anything serious like banking ect.  Youtube a few forums and games. Pretty much it. 

    I finally installed it for it's convenience. I do have clean emails for most of my stuff.  I couldn't tell you any of my pw's for any site minus this one.  They all look like   @3hoGIHhf782E7#.  I think I have fairly decent online habits as far as limiting my footprint.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

    Wrong. I'm actually fairly honest. No I don't hack minus that one instance. That was like I don't know 06 or something..? I don't even remember when AA came out.  I'd have to look to even come close to a decent time frame of how long ago it was.

    It was interesting though that no one could pick me out as easily as they tossed around accusations. Ignoring the fact that the majority left were all using something or another... Since the game was pretty much down to 2 servers.  It was just my take and experience on how people think they can tell who is or isn't hacking and most times couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Jesus, was probably more like 04-05 looking at the wiki.

     

     

    long winded post ignored because of your opening statement.

    Yes, I do expect you to believe it.

    You are trying to come up with some morale outrage over me using an aimbot 6-8 years ago out of curiosity.  That's a long time ago. The servers were dead. The game was dead. There was little risk in seeing first hand how they work instead of hear-say.  If you think I am coding my own you obviously need to look at my post history. Have you never done something to see how it works? Never taken something apart so you can figure out how it works?   Yes?  Good! So have I. I don't like ruining others experience.  Half these guys, the ones left playing were actually already up to no good.  I don't know what they were doing but definitely something like a radar or maybe hitboxes so they could see where people were through walls. If I remember correctly that's what initially spurred me into wanting to see how they work.  I don't openly accuse people of doing stuff but you know when you get one of those feelings that something just isn't right.. Yeah..  I don't remember in great detail so having to piece together what I do recall. I do remember how it worked and the functionality of it was far beyond what I expected.  So if you can't take it at face value what I said then don't even bother. 

    It was just a story that popped up when I was thinking about this whole situation is all. I don't have $100's or $1000's of dollars to throw away on games attempted to get away with hacks. I don't want to ruin others experiences either. That said and given that this isn't about evil anti cheats but rather I thought it was odd they were looking at where you have been was odd.  I type in Nuclear fallout in Google. Am I planning on setting off a dirty bomb or nuke....

    You're making a mountain out of a ant hill.  Coming off as a right ass if I do say so. Apologies but dam nothing I have said is all that far out there.  

    Just got done playing some TF2.. The horror! (just to fuel your paranoia a little.) I still suck btw. :)

    I'm not against anti cheat. Just thought it was odd that they were looking at sites. Someone could come in and start dropping links on a gaming forum sending people to sites that might get them partially flagged. You don't think there's people out there that would do that just for kicks?  How about just curious? Looking at where you have been doesn't show motives or intent. It just says you were there.  It's not that big of a deal though because I can't say that I've looked at such a site in years. Gabe likes to go on his rants from time to time.  So I made a post as soon as I saw it. I've acknowledged I made an mountain out of an ant hill.

    EDIT:  late edit but.. I'm going to apologize if I offended you in this post. Not going to change it.  It's just people are so cynical about anything anymore. Even in real life. It annoys the hell out of me. Drives me nuts actually.  Every little thing.

    I realize the way I word things tends to rub people the wrong way from time to time. I don't do it on purpose usually. I've already admitted it was me have a knee jerk reaction as far as Gabe goes. I don't hate the man I don't even know him. I just he's in the past harped on other companies doing iffy things. Stuff that Valve essentially does themselves.

     

     

    Quizzical, you've always made good posts and generally straight to the point.   Like I said probably wouldn't have said much if it just wasn't for him being so outspoken at times about other companies practices.  It was a spur of the moment post when I saw it. If I am going to be truthful.  I know it's hardly a big deal and definitely not against anti cheat measures. Well aware as far as privacy goes at this point this is way down there. That said I do have fairly limited habits online.

     

    I'm just sayin', people being what they are on both sides of a statement like "I only did it once", you have very unrealistic expectations if you think people are going to believe you.  You would be better off just saying you've cheated in the past, and you don't cheat now.  Sticking to the "just one time" schtick just doesn't sound credible, no matter who you are and really, it doesn't matter what actually happened.  Only what sounds likely.  For my part, it's not moral outrage.  I find it amusing when people say things like, "I only did it once" and they expect people to believe it because nobody ever does.  I don't know why people persist in defending the statements.  I have three kids.  I've watched them defend statements like that a lot.  They, like you, are a victim of all the people who said, "I only did it once", and which we later find out had been doing "it" a lot.  In short, people who only did "it" once and people who did "it" a lot both say, "I only did it once".  That's why the statement does not sound credible.

     

    Really, it's not moral outrage.  I have a very limited attention span for things like that, and if I didn't see it or couldn't report it because of a lack of evidence, I'm not likely to bother thinking about it again ten minutes later.  I don't think people should cheat, but it's not my job to make sure it doesn't happen.  I may not even report it.  *shrug* I suppose I could care more, but I don't.  I just assume the developers are working on it and go on about my day.

     

    Ok.  I haven't actually read all of your post yet.  Just the first and part of the last bit after "Edit".  I'm going to go back and read the rest of it to see if I get offended.  ** please hold, reading **

     

    Ok, not offended.

     

    Thank you for the details of your unholy transgression, but really, none of that matters to me.  Like I said, the details really are irrelevant.  It really, really, really doesn't matter what actually happened.  It only matters how credible the statements sound.  In the same way when it comes to Valve and Microsoft it only matters how credible each of those entities sound to the players.  Valve sounds much more credible than Microsoft.  It's just more likely that Microsoft is collecting the same information for reasons that have nothing at all to do with protecting their customers and everything to do with making some more money off of their consumers by selling the information they are collecting.  That's how it sounds.  That doesn't mean that's how it is.

     

    Anyway, people are cynical because of stuff like this.  They start off thinking there's some magical way for game clients to just know when the player is cheating or to stop them from cheating, but it turns out that really, it's just a [email protected] shoot.  Player gets reported for cheating, player also visited cheating website, player's exhibited skill made a dramatic change after the they visited the website.  Player is banned for cheating.  Did the player actually cheat?  There's no forensic evidence that they did.  Valve just assumes they did.  Other players feel safer with the nagging doubt in the back of their heads that maybe there are innocent people who can't play games and Valve now knows the browser window in the background is always on porn sites.  That's just a little thing compared to all the information Microsoft must have in order to shutdown the largest botnets in the world and all the information Microsoft handed over to the FBI.  It's amazing people aren't more cynical.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
    So you are a hacker that bashes a company for its anti-hack system. Who would have thunk?

     

     

    Um Just to clarify it was just an aimbot I was referring to as only "once". Though can't really say I've ever really cheated any other way either (in online gaming).  If I was railing on against anti cheat altogether I'd get why you might think that. I'm not.  Whether I was clear on that or not. I'd have to look. It was just a story that came to mind late at night. It was quite unholy. I was camp god when I setup in my spot in the ruins.  Then again so were they.

    I disagree it is fake morale outrage to some extent and with all due respect. People think they smell blood in the water and they will jump all over someone. I see it every day on these forums. I've done it in the past. Can't say that I am proud of it and have adjust myself for the better.  I read a lot here and am very familiar with whose who. Not a bad thing. Just trying to show that while I may not be an active poster I am a fairly active browser. 

    If I blow something out of proportion I admit to it as I've done multiple times in this thread. It gets tiresome though having to sound like a broken record.

     

     I guess I just think it's funny how Steam is held up as some sort of bastion of the game retailers. When they are no better or worse. It does good stuff. It does bad stuff.  Why is it that Steam and Gabe get a pass but say Ubisoft doesn't? Steam does but EA wouldn't?

    No, I don't think there is some magical way for a game client to know.  Again I am not against anti-cheat. I am against software looking places that wouldn't really give it credible information. Checking places I have been or whatever does not prove intent.  It never will. I'm a fairly private person I think I have gone above and beyond what most pc users do to help keep it that way. That's where I am also kind of coming from I guess. So I guess I saw it as an opportunity to harp on Gabe a lilttle. Made a mountain out of an ant hill.

     

    Edit:  I did say hacking. But whatever. It's still accurate. Unless someone is going to scold me for using the console in say Skyrim, Fallout, or whatever. 

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
     
     

    It's just funny how some companies seem to get a pass but mention other companies and instant rage from everywhere.

     

     

    There's a few things going on here. 

     

    Microsoft has built up years of ill will by being the dominant player in the personal computer OS market and then using their position to make very ham fisted attempts at dominating other markets without actually creating any additional perceived benefit for consumers.  People are already suspicious of Microsoft.

     

    When Snowden dropped his little bombs people had a reflex reaction to the spying that was going on.  It made people angry.  People kept getting presented with the whole spying deal in the news.  Then, Microsoft gets presented a little afterwards, and now Microsoft is associated with the anger that comes from the whole spying thing.  The odds of giving Microsoft a free pass from this point forward is nil.  It will not happen.  Couple this new view of Microsoft with the old view of Microsoft as the monopolist, attempting to use their monopoly to push into other markets and you get a double whammy of ill will.

     

    Valve was not mentioned in any high profile anything in the news, other than to say they wanted to create an alternative to Microsoft's operating system.  Not only that, they want the platform it runs on to be based on Linux, a free and open source platform.  This generates good will towards Valve.  Not to mention the years of Valve selling games to people at discounted prices, a system that delivers the games efficiently and an anti-cheat system that is very unobtrusive, and that seems to work good enough.  Being the anti-Microsoft has generated good will towards Valve too.

     

    So the same statement, applied to two different companies will be perceived in different ways.  Valve is looking at the DNS cache/Microsoft is looking at the DNS cache.  That people didn't immediately know why Valve was looking at it tells us more or less what we need to know.  People knew that Microsoft was doing it to spy on people and would potentially deliver that information to the NSA, or use the information in their Bing search engine to deliver targeted ads or something.  They looked at Valve and asked why they were looking at the DNS cache because Valve, unlike Microsoft had built up good will, not ill will.  Microsoft was caught lying about the information they were gathering, so even if Microsoft says the information is to stop giant botnets or to prevent piracy, etc., people won't believe them.  In their minds, the information is just going to the NSA for domestic spying.  Valve hasn't been caught out in any lies like that, so when they say they are doing it to stop cheaters, then people will believe them.

     

    Again, it doesn't matter what reality actually is, only what reality looks like.  This is what things look like comparing Microsoft and Valve.  That's why Valve gets a pass and Microsoft doesn't.  They look credible.  Microsoft does not look credible.

     

    **

     

    Concerning the hacking/cheating thing, I do not know, nor do I really care what happened.  It doesn't matter.  If you have something like that in your past that people are going to bring up (and apparently they are), it only matters what it looks like when you respond to it.  Everyone says they only did it once, whether they did or not.  You cannot change the past, but you can change your response to it, and potentially the perception of it.  Stop trying to defend it.  Defensive people do not look credible.  You can be angry that it keeps getting brought up, but stop defending it.  Just admit to it, say it was a bad idea, and use that as the starting point for your interest in privacy and maybe personal security.  People may not necessarily trust you, but it will lend some credibility to what you are saying.

     

    Then again, I'm a random person on the internet.  You have no idea what I know and what I don't know.  There's no reason to lend any credibility to what I'm saying, so taking my advice with a grain of salt is probably a good idea. :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • EpiconEpicon Member Posts: 121

    As much as I enjoy stream (115 games on there). I think Valve fanboys are some of the worst out there. Right up there with all the GW2's fanboys at launch.

    I wish I could say I was being trolled by a bunch of them. But do you have any idea how many fanboys have told me and ranted to others with, "Steam is so much better than Origin and Microsoft, Steam uses no DRM."

    That comment sums it up, as a whole what their thinking is, I don't even like any Valve games. I have no love for Microsoft either, however I wish Gabe would stop acting like, he is somehow better than Microsoft and other businesses, that he isn't out to make money. 

    Steam, is all about making money and in fact sometimes even more so, it's a living breathing DRM system just like the others. Okay maybe you can buy more shit indie games on there, over most other places, but they don't even offer returns. Origin, you know the evil EA, does. Imagine that.

    I remember Gabe going off, that when Windows 8 was launched, you would only be able to play Microsoft games, or partners of them. The rest would be locked. That Games will run badly off windows 8, and that Linux is the future.

    Nice to see all that happened... He sounds like the fanboys.

    "What tastes like purple?"

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Epicon

    As much as I enjoy stream (115 games on there). I think Valve fanboys are some of the worst out there. Right up there with all the GW2's fanboys at launch.

    I wish I could say I was being trolled by a bunch of them. But do you have any idea how many fanboys have told me and ranted to others with, "Steam is so much better than Origin and Microsoft, Steam uses no DRM."

    That comment sums it up, as a whole what their thinking is, I don't even like any Valve games. I have no love for Microsoft either, however I wish Gabe would stop acting like, he is somehow better than Microsoft and other businesses, that he isn't out to make money. 

    Steam, is all about making money and in fact sometimes even more so, it's a living breathing DRM system just like the others. Okay maybe you can buy more shit indie games on there, over most other places, but they don't even offer returns. Origin, you know the evil EA, does. Imagine that.

    I remember Gabe going off, that when Windows 8 was launched, you would only be able to play Microsoft games, or partners of them. The rest would be locked. That Games will run badly off windows 8, and that Linux is the future.

    Nice to see all that happened... He sounds like the fanboys.

     

    The misperception of what Gabe said isn't limited to the fanboys.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Rzep
     
     

     

     

     

     

    I get that p.o.v., Thank You.  Not going to say I fully agree with it but totally can see it from that perspective.

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Originally posted by Epicon

    I remember Gabe going off, that when Windows 8 was launched, you would only be able to play Microsoft games, or partners of them. The rest would be locked. That Games will run badly off windows 8, and that Linux is the future.

     

    I think that's what it was actually. It caused a massive uproar all over the place. I was looking for the thread earlier.  I just remember the outcry it caused and even game news sites were fired up if I am not mistaken. 

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