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Twitter conversation between Massively and MMORPG
DeserttFoxx
Member UncommonPosts: 2,402
I found this discussion over on Tamiel Foundry http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/insightful-twitter-conversation-between-massively-and-mmorpg-testers/
Here’s an interesting conversation between Beau Hindman of Massively and Bill Murphy and Robert Lashley of MMORPG. I also posted this on Reddit.
I gotta back up Eliot on this one, Elder Scrolls Online is… well, bleh. Only played several hours, though, but… ZzzZZz.
I felt EXACTLY the same as Eliot for HOURS, but it clicked for me somewhere around level 10. I dig it more and more now.
Yeah I’ll definitely have to give it more time, but the first thing I tried to do was get off the island. lol
Hahah. There are definite early hook probs. WildStar grabbed me immediately. ESO took ages. But the potential in AVA is great.
@dantack (from Game Informer)
It took me around 5 hrs for things to get good. Essentially, as soon as you leave that godawful starting zone
ain’t nobody got time for that! Lol if I don’t get hooked right away, I’ll come back later. Not sure I’d buy it, tho
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Comments
That conversation describes it pretty well.
I did try to get off the isle and hit around level 10. Only managed midway and lvl 5 tho,... really it is so god damn boring and awful (and i keep hearing that is only the start). I just did not manage to force myself trough.
Really hope i can bypass this barrier and get into the game next beta to experience the change first hand. Bashing the game is easy, as it feels like crap... but enough people talk about this tutorial isle / level 10 thing that i want to reach it and see myself. Would not be the first game to suddenly become good later on.
For the records tho: What the hell did the betatesters do up to this point if the VERY START is so ugly that it is turning away people before the game gets a real chance? Seriously.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Just shows how unprofessional gaming magazine staff is and why their "reviews" are so worthless.
Don't know what's unprofessional about it. You might think he should play more of the game before commenting but he's right many players will not so I think Zenimax should pay attention to this kind of criticism. Very foolish for an MMO dev to think they can get away with a bad new player experience by just saying 'It gets better..."
Fact is, most players won't like your game and large part of them will be turned off "just by" new player experience.
However, that does not mean there is anything wrong with new player experience. It's statistics.
It is unprofessional not to realize that and judge the game based on "Like / dislike", as well as instead of exploring starter island trying to leave it asap...
Good luck trying to sell an mmo in 2014 to Americans when the first 5 hours suck.
Perhaps these mmo "reviewers" simply mirror the mmo audience?
Tell me, what was so awesome to enjoy exploration of boring, empty island?
No one had a problem judging all of Age Of Conan on its starting zone.
Guess players have to hope this is the reverse of the that situation.
Critics are people too, with feelings and emotions .. and opinions.
They are like the rest of us! (shocking I realize)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
ESO grabbed me almost immediately and Wildstar literally provoked a negative physical reaction.
If you understand game design and you're aware that not all MMOs have to work in an identical fashion to be acceptable, ESO will grab you quite quickly, if you're into its design.
If it doesn't grab you until level 10, it's because you're not an informed gamer and you lack the open mind required for a fair evaluation. Even worse, you might be biased against it from the start - which makes you worthless as a person providing accurate feedback.
The game isn't the problem - you're the problem.
Obviously, if the game isn't for you - it won't grab you at all, but that's another matter entirely.
This is a hilarious post.
If a 'professional' finds the starting area to be awful, wouldn't it be 'unprofessional' to NOT say 'the part I played is awful'?
Whether the rest of the MMO is good or not is irrelevant as they are 'NDA' and thus, we would expect 'professional' to abide by that.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I agree with DK, i'm a big fan of TES and the story, with that the game got me hooked from the start (except maybe the jail bit i couldnt find myself enjoying that in any way) When i passed that it was like someone put a x3 multiplier on time and set it to turbo.
Try to let yourself go, you wont be punished in this game for having a look around.
Yeah, because if I dislike something, everyone else does too, right?
The point of the review is to provide factual information so I can get a picture about game mechanics and somewhat evaluate whether it appeals to me.
The information whether some uneducated, feeble-minded individual finds the game boring or awesome is absolutely worthless as it does not relate to me in any way.
So what you're telling me is... you're pinning for the day we can replace these reviewers with robots?
For one thing, just because he is a reviewer, him talking on Twitter doesn't constitute a review of the game. If he was actually being paid to review ESO and put that in his review you might have slightly more of a point but I still think it's his valid and honest impression. Obviously the game didn't grip him enough to want to continue further.
Hah, if there's another beta weekend maybe I should try it again and see if I can stay awake through the starter islands.
I am aware of that argument and it is somewhat valid.
However, I still do not think that anyone who is doing something professionaly or being an expert in the field will have as equally narrow minded and simplistic perception as regular consumer...coming out as complete ignorant.
Its a sign of the times. In the past a game review was just that a review of the game the reviewer would play through the parts of the game he had access to and describe what it was he was playing. The magazine who paid the reviewer made sure that the person reviewing was one with an active interest in that sort of game. this meant that the reviewer would point out the key features. Only at the end of the review would the reviewer give his own opinion in a paragraph carefully worded so you understood this was opinion and not fact.
Now we are in the situation where anyone is a reviewer whilst this is not a bad thing I have seen a steep decline in professionalism and more of a grand standing approach. There is less "fact" in reviews and more opinion and the reviewers are normally trying to push their opinion as fact.
For example F2P and P2P outside of mentioning these factors no GAME reviewer should make more of it than just stating the payment model as it has no foundation on the game play/.
That post also illustrates another issue with current reviewers they are not actually reviewing the game rather than seeing what the game has to offer they seem to be constantly trying to push it into a box of what they believe it should be.
Please if any reviewers read this PLAY THE GAME and let us know whats there I don't care if you were bored to death because rather than playing the game and exploring the starter island and seeing what it offered you spent your entire time trying to skip it. Your review is on the game as its meant to be played if you cannot do that then please get a real job doing something your actually capable of.
Just my 2 cents.
Very much this.
It amazes me that people don't feel that the starting zone matters. There is nothing unproffesional here. Any critic of any medium is not going to suffer through a shitty initial experience to get to "the good stuff". Not books, not movies, not food, so why the hell would you expect a game critic to?
I am an experienced MMO player and I still want a good starting zone and I won't force myself to chew through crap content on the promise of "it gets better."
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
There's nothing wrong with the starter zones. They have the same gameplay as the larger ones, only in a smaller area.
It was apparent to me when I explored the starter zone that the game emphasized exploration.
The fact that these "previewers" didn't open their eyes until later is hardly the fault of the game. Looking at the map, it's SUPREMELY obvious that the larger zones are huge in comparison.
Even if that's not obvious - you should hold your tongue until you've seen more than the starter zones.
2 + 2 = 4.
This entire rage against the media / review sites make no sense at all.
ESO has an NDA so don't we expect these professionals to not break them?
If we do, what's left that they can report on?
Oh that's right! The starting Island!
So how is the starting island?
'Bad / Could be better / not horrendous but not great' seems to be most people's opinion.
Cool! That's excellent!
So these professionals should do their job right? Like inform people of their thoughts and impressions of what they could report on. Right?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Did you deliberately missed the entire point that it is not their job?
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You want to tell others how you feel, you make a blog about it, you want to inform about a game, you write a review.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yeah how silly of them to point out that the first 10 levels are horrible and unbearable for most players. Most players who don't have an emotional investment in the franchise would not put up with that crap, so it needs to be communicated to Zenimax that it is bad, but hey if you want to play a ghost town game because everyone uninstalls after 5 hours then more power to you.
I don't think people were complaining about the size of the starter zone, they were complaining because the content of the starter zone was awful. So if that is what the rest of the game offers only on a grander scale, well who wants to move from a toilet onto a sewer, just because it is bigger?
I do not have to eat half of a rotten hamburger to know that it is rotten and that I don't like it. I don't have to read half a book to know it isn't for me and I don't have to wait for the credits to roll on a movie before I know it sucks.
You should strive to grab the audience right off the bat, not force them through a bad or mediocre experience as a punishment before they get to play your wonderful game.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk