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So the general census is that TESO should be F2P and not P2P?

BearKnightBearKnight Member CommonPosts: 461

From different posts, threads, tweets, reviews, and video gameplay what i've gathered is that the majority believe the "quality" isn't there to justify demanding $60 box price + $15/month subscription. 

 

From experience this just means the game itself can't justify its own development costs for what it has proven itself to be actually worth.

 

There are games where F2P just isn't a viable option, and then there are games that it fits quite well in.

 

Is this just the "F2P" crowd demanding another new product conform to their viewpoint, or are the claims valid that TESO isn't worth a standard P2P model? Without having gotten to test/play TESO yet to form a 100% concrete opinion, do you guys think this is the case?

 

 

Sorry for the new thread, but I felt a more directed question on the subject was needed. I've only seen threads about people complaining about the complainers for F2P, or why people don't "get" F2P :).

 

 

Sincerely,

-Bear

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Comments

  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,652
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    From different posts, threads, tweets, reviews, and video gameplay what i've gathered is that the majority believe the "quality" isn't there to justify demanding $60 box price + $15/month subscription. 

     

    From experience this just means the game itself can't justify its own development costs for what it has proven itself to be actually worth.

     

    There are games where F2P just isn't a viable option, and then there are games that it fits quite well in.

     

    Is this just the "F2P" crowd demanding another new product conform to their viewpoint, or are the claims valid that TESO isn't worth a standard P2P model? Without having gotten to test/play TESO yet to form a 100% concrete opinion, do you guys think this is the case?

     

     

    Sorry for the new thread, but I felt a more directed question on the subject was needed. I've only seen threads about people complaining about the complainers for F2P, or why people don't "get" F2P :).

     

     

    Sincerely,

    -Bear

    no this is 150% the free to play crowd screaming for it not being worth its cost monthly. Also its the sandbox crowd screaming its going to be all doom and gloom because it has quests in it and you cant play lego's all day. This game is coming out on consoles and pc , This game contrary to this sites jaded members beliefs will not be free to play for a very VERY long time unless it completely tanks on PS4 and Xbox which I highly doubt. 15 bucks a month is water in a bucket compared to the high prices of a cash shop in the end.

  • retye50retye50 Member UncommonPosts: 50
    Nope, disagree...I dont mind paying $15 dollars a month. Hell, I can spend that in one night at the bar.
  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844

    Every MMO should be.

    -Without any kind of cash shops

    -1-50 bucks per month sub,which includes everything that game has to offer.

    Nothing more and nothing less.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • neroistneroist Member Posts: 24
    Originally posted by retye50
    Nope, disagree...I dont mind paying $15 dollars a month. Hell, I can spend that in one night at the bar.

    Most people spend $15 dollars within the first 10 mins in a bar.

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,402

    How could there possibly be a general consensus when there is an NDA?

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973

    On this site it doesn't matter what game you're talking about; if it's not F2P at launch, it should have been or will be within a few months.

    This game will be fine for years with it's sub model.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Better to just decide for yourself. I personally don't feel it's worth the price, but I also don't think it's a bad game either. It's average. However, average in this market isn't saying a whole lot.
  • flguy147flguy147 Member UncommonPosts: 507
    I would pay $20 a month for it.  That is cheaper than a 1 hour dinner at a restaurant which is about 2% of the enjoyment i would get from an entire month of playing ESO.  I feel like i am getting a steal for 15 bucks a month with that many hours of entertainment.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by rygard49

    On this site it doesn't matter what game you're talking about; if it's not F2P at launch, it should have been or will be within a few months.

    This game will be fine for years with it's sub model.

    Saying it will be fine for years is just as bad as saying it will go F2P in a few months. Neither side could possibly know for sure.

    You don't know ... you think.

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 263

    If it goes f2p I'd stop, like I did with swtor.

    Only thing worse than f2p leeches is console kids in your PC mmo! Yes, I'm looking at you FFXIV.

    (Or maybe it's just that I'm old, grumpy and bitter?). :)

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    I don't think it should be free to play but that is the only amount I would personally pay for it because I don't think it is a very good product. I think the generic payment model for an MMO should be buy the box and play without a monthly fee and then if they want they can add cosmetic junk to a cash shop or not.

    I didn't buy Skyrim when it was full price either though, so I'm on about the same level that I was with the last game in the series.

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    AT the very lease there should be a tiered subscription plans. I really think ESO missed the boat on doing something creative wit hpricing. Heck,  a lot of vendors are. The 15 bucks a month staple is a dagger to folk who want to play with other house hold members.  Even a 33 percent price reduction to 9.99 would make for a more palletable monthly cost. I subscribe to spotify, netflix, and Pandora because the 5 to 10 dollar cost seems like a drop in the buck. When you exceed 10 bucks you're talking "real bill" time.  

    I'm also miffed that no one has come up with any type of family  or couple plan. 

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499
    The consensus is that TESO is not a solid enough game to survive a P2P model. Not that P2P is not the best model because it is but every game can't have one, particularly the mediocre ones.
  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    From different posts, threads, tweets, reviews, and video gameplay what i've gathered is that the majority believe the "quality" isn't there to justify demanding $60 box price + $15/month subscription. 

     

    From experience this just means the game itself can't justify its own development costs for what it has proven itself to be actually worth.

     

    There are games where F2P just isn't a viable option, and then there are games that it fits quite well in.

     

    Is this just the "F2P" crowd demanding another new product conform to their viewpoint, or are the claims valid that TESO isn't worth a standard P2P model? Without having gotten to test/play TESO yet to form a 100% concrete opinion, do you guys think this is the case?

     

     

    Sorry for the new thread, but I felt a more directed question on the subject was needed. I've only seen threads about people complaining about the complainers for F2P, or why people don't "get" F2P :).

     

     

    Sincerely,

    -Bear

     

     

    I think this discussion point is weak.  Why ? Because if you would like enjoy a F2P game fully you would need to spend more money in a year in comarison to 15$ a month. And there are other reasons why many refuse a game developed around an ingame cash shop.

     

    There is another question:

     

    The game WILDSTAR is another release candidate with a monthly subscription and I dont hear and read that much critics about their sub payment model. Am I wrong here or did you read a lot of reviews which critisize the payment model ?

  • TelondarielTelondariel Member Posts: 1,001
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    From different posts, threads, tweets, reviews, and video gameplay what i've gathered is that the majority believe the "quality" isn't there to justify demanding $60 box price + $15/month subscription. 

     Don't confuse a vocal group that spams messages in every thread possible a majority.  

    Is this just the "F2P" crowd demanding another new product conform to their viewpoint, or are the claims valid that TESO isn't worth a standard P2P model? Without having gotten to test/play TESO yet to form a 100% concrete opinion, do you guys think this is the case?

     Partly.  It is also the diehard Elder Scrolls fans that have pickles up their butts because ESO isn't a carbon copy of Skyrim with multiplayer or coop. 

    There isn't a general consensus on anything.

     

    One group thinks and says this, another that.  Some people are rallying around their chosen YouTube mouthpieces, others hang off the words of someone else.  It's groupthink, and has become a mob mentality.  They're loud and persistent, but ultimately flawed.  Repeating the same messages and misinformation does not make it any truer.

     

    I think it's important to pay attention to the level of intensity of the people that are putting their messages out.  It's just not a normal level of behavior.  That in itself should set off alarm bells that maybe there is more than a degree of irrationality in the speakers, and posters, as well as questionable motives.

     

    There will be Beta opportunities like this last weekend before ESO launches.  Check it out for yourself.  Beta weekends are free, and people use it to demo the game to make up their mind about purchasing later. 

    image
  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    I think many would prefer a B2P + DLC purchase model which is more in line with their previous products.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

    So far payment type has never been a factor of a games succes..

     

    there is only one thing that matters and thats quallity or fun....   If people enjoy what they see, it sells... And as long as they enjoy the game, they will keep spending money...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by spizz
    ...

     

     

    I think this discussion point is weak.  Why ? Because if you would like enjoy a F2P game fully you would need to spend more money in a year in comarison to 15$ a month. And there are other reasons why many refuse a game developed around an ingame cash shop.

     

    There is another question:

     

    The game WILDSTAR is another release candidate with a monthly subscription and I dont hear and read that much critics about their sub payment model. Am I wrong here or did you read a lot of reviews which critisize the payment model ?

    Don't worry, Wildstar will have it's turn closer to it's launch window.

     

    ESO is just getting the heat because it's launch is imminent, therefore it's the "hot topic" of the day.

  • PyatraPyatra Member Posts: 644
    OP, if you weren't just trolling, you would just make a poll and have your answer.
  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 263
    Originally posted by Ender4

    I don't think it should be free to play but that is the only amount I would personally pay for it because I don't think it is a very good product. I think the generic payment model for an MMO should be buy the box and play without a monthly fee and then if they want they can add cosmetic junk to a cash shop or not.

    I didn't buy Skyrim when it was full price either though, so I'm on about the same level that I was with the last game in the series.

    The B2P idea is like communism; it looks and sounds great, but doesn't work (for lots of reasons).

    Take GW2 for example... Sure it was B2P, and the cash shop was for fluff. But they weren't making enough cash from fluff (and no wonder at dye pots for each character... get tae!).

    So they then nerf drops/looting to the point that if you wanted to craft yourself gear you had to use the cash for gold convertor, OR grind dungeons to make cash then buy the mats needed (Which was awesome from a game with no grind! Or so they said).

    Would you end up spending more than $15 per month? Maybe not (my guess is players with alts would be screaming!) but at least with the sub you get anything, no "Need more arrows? ONLY $5!!!".

    And B2P still feeds off the F2P whales.

    Love subs or hate them, but they are the only honest choice - you know what your getting and arnt forced into cash shop purchases!

    :)

     

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member UncommonPosts: 3,133

    I prefer sandbox games over themepark. I also prefer a subscription over F2P.

    Those out or the way I will be playing this (have pre purchased) and paying for 2 subs (wife). This is about as palatable as a themepark game can get for me. I will play for a few months until I get into the Pathfinder Online Early Enrollment in Q3. Whether I play after that point will be determined by continued fun playing TESO. I know that if they went to F2P I would be very less interested to play. One of the great things about subscriptions is that it weeds out most of those loud mouths that just like to go around bashing games for any and everything. Most of those types won't spend money to do that. A few will, but not as many if there is a subscription barrier.

    Last thing I need in my game time is a bunch of negative nancies and wendy whiners.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Chavez y Chavez

  • HengistHengist Member RarePosts: 1,284

    To be honest, I've tried to stay away from the lead-up to this title, because I wanted to see it for what it was, not hype, not hearing people complain that the dev's promised "X", and delivered "Y", and so on, that said, I started to dig again after the beta weekend last month, and I don't think I've seen much of a consensus of anything. What I have seen is a bunch of people arguing that whatever they like, is what it should be, and that people who don't agree with 'em are less than bright. Silly right?

    I don't think I've ever played or not played an MMO based on it's pay style. If I like the game, I play it, if I don't I don't, it's pretty simple. The extra cost doesn't factor into the equation. Granted I don't play multiple MMO's at the same time, and I respect that people choose to do that, but honestly, other than a part of the MMO community, I really don't think it's that big a sticking point for many people.

    However, ESO might be the first time it really could be, simply because the way Zenimax is marketing, and the ESO name is synonymous with single player RPO's, I wonder how many console gamers who don't follow these forums will buy the game, and be surprised when they have to pay to play.

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    I prefer sandbox games over themepark. I also prefer a subscription over F2P.

    Those out or the way I will be playing this (have pre purchased) and paying for 2 subs (wife). This is about as palatable as a themepark game can get for me. I will play for a few months until I get into the Pathfinder Online Early Enrollment in Q3. Whether I play after that point will be determined by continued fun playing TESO. I know that if they went to F2P I would be very less interested to play. One of the great things about subscriptions is that it weeds out most of those loud mouths that just like to go around bashing games for any and everything. Most of those types won't spend money to do that. A few will, but not as many if there is a subscription barrier.

    Last thing I need in my game time is a bunch of negative nancies and wendy whiners.

    I'm with you 100% on this.  Can't stand all of the idiot trolls in world/area chat on F2P games.

  • ClywdClywd Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Imho the subscription is one of the positive things about teso...

    Currently playing: EverQuest
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • FusionFusion Member UncommonPosts: 1,398
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by Ender4

    I don't think it should be free to play but that is the only amount I would personally pay for it because I don't think it is a very good product. I think the generic payment model for an MMO should be buy the box and play without a monthly fee and then if they want they can add cosmetic junk to a cash shop or not.

    I didn't buy Skyrim when it was full price either though, so I'm on about the same level that I was with the last game in the series.

    The B2P idea is like communism; it looks and sounds great, but doesn't work (for lots of reasons).

    Take GW2 for example... Sure it was B2P, and the cash shop was for fluff. But they weren't making enough cash from fluff (and no wonder at dye pots for each character... get tae!).

    So they then nerf drops/looting to the point that if you wanted to craft yourself gear you had to use the cash for gold convertor, OR grind dungeons to make cash then buy the mats needed (Which was awesome from a game with no grind! Or so they said).

    Would you end up spending more than $15 per month? Maybe not (my guess is players with alts would be screaming!) but at least with the sub you get anything, no "Need more arrows? ONLY $5!!!".

    And B2P still feeds off the F2P whales.

    Love subs or hate them, but they are the only honest choice - you know what your getting and arnt forced into cash shop purchases!

    :)

     

    Great words that i wholeheartedly agree with.

    That last remark will get the flames burning with comments like "you aren't forced", "you don't have to spend", such comments come from clouded minds.

    http://neocron-game.com/ - now totally F2P no cash-shops or micro transactions at all.
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