i fill like people are still missing my point, and i fill this way because i aree with what people are saying but they are responding to me as if im saying something im not.
so ill try from a diffrent angle.
i dont care that the hotbar only ha 5 abilities avilable on it i have played many games like this bfore what bothers me is that i can have far more skill then this but cant use them, if a game is only going to let you use that many abilites then it should only let you learn that many.
my point is that i should be able to use everything i have learned, if you want to give me a huge selection to pick from but limit how many i can learn im fine with it, what i am not ok with is a game that lets me learn a large amount of abilites but only lets me use a much smaller amount especilly when i have to invest points into learning earlyier abilites that i wont be able to use due to this limitation.
this is a waste of skill points and makes me fill like im wasteing my time on them since i will never use them.
i jsut dont uderstand why people like this kind of system please explain to me why you like only being able to use a small portion of what your character has learnd to do.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I'm begging all new games coming out to please, PLEASE, stop the damn trend of pinning people down to 5 abilities.
And NO, that does not mean I'm in favour of 50 abilities where you don't use 30 of them. But what people forget is that your game doesn't suddenly become more interesting if you restrict people to a very small number of abilities either.
It's the mechanics behind those abilities and the strategies that you can devise with them that make your gameplay interesting.
--> Let's take a look at Age of Wushu's martial sets, the Wudang breeze sword set for example:
1) Buff which stacks a special kind of "Breeze Qi" up to 3 times when you parry an attack
2) Basic attack which deals limited damage but puts a debuff on enemies that damages them when they try to run away using lightness (dodge) skills.
3) Parry break which knocks the enemy down and inflicts the "Foul Qi" debuff if successful.
4) AOE move, can knock enemies down. If cast in the air it is instant and has more hits, but only has a 50% chance of knocking down. If cast on the ground it has only one hit and a 3 seconds cast time but a 100% chance of knocking an enemy down. Every stack of the "Breeze Qi" buff reduces the ground cast time by 1/3 and increases the knock down chance. Enemies that are knocked down receive the "Foul Qi" state.
5) Ranged line AOE. Deals more damage for every stack of "Breeze Qi" on you. Enemies who are hit by this attack while afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state are unable to parry for 3 seconds.
6) Ranged rage move. Hits more times when cast in the air. Deals more damage to enemies while they are afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state.
There you have it folks, only 6 abilities but each of them interacts with the others in a unique way. Each of those is specifically tailored for that set and you can devise multiple strategies around them. Even more so because the game in question even allows you to tailor combos later on, cancelling the cast time or animation on certain moves.
And if you discover more skillsets, you can switch in between them to cover your weaknesses. All the while you will never need to use more than 5-7 abilities coupled with your F -keys to switch between sets. So YOU make the choice whether you want to master a few sets completely or go for a large amount of sets to cover all your weaknesses, the devs don't make it for you.
That should be the goal.
However, most of the games that forcefully pin you down to a limited amount of abilities don't even attempt to create interaction between the abilities. They just force you to pick a small number out of a big pool of unappealing stuff and call that "making an interesting choice".
The result is a combat system that is barely more engaging than your average hack & slash. And I regret to say that ESO is not an exception to that at all.
Agree. This is the best approach to not having too many skills but making those few that more interesting.
The problem is that many people here see the world in balck/white. It's either 30, 40, 50... abilities or 5. To them there is nothing in between.
ESO's combat system is, imo, a simple copay/paste from GW2. Even down to combos which are supposedly useful only with another player. Which means that while playing solo you have almost no way to test them, to get better with them. And since many players play solo a lot, it just means that combos, which are added to enrich our experience in combat, are rarely used and thus not appreciated enough.
I seriously hope ESO will change that, but according to other sources, it works the same as GW2's combo system does.
Imo, 5 skill system is the result of multi platform design. How can you expect box or station players to use 15, 20 abilities when their stick doesn't have so many buttons? Well change the system so even those that can use so many skills, can't. And then let those users find an excuse for such a design choice.
Sorry, but that is just silly. GW2 combat was based around positioning and cool downs, while being a tab target game with auto attack. ESO is based on resource management and skill selection. The only things they have in common are dodge roll, weapon switch and a restrictive hot bar.
I'm begging all new games coming out to please, PLEASE, stop the damn trend of pinning people down to 5 abilities.
And NO, that does not mean I'm in favour of 50 abilities where you don't use 30 of them. But what people forget is that your game doesn't suddenly become more interesting if you restrict people to a very small number of abilities either.
It's the mechanics behind those abilities and the strategies that you can devise with them that make your gameplay interesting.
--> Let's take a look at Age of Wushu's martial sets, the Wudang breeze sword set for example:
1) Buff which stacks a special kind of "Breeze Qi" up to 3 times when you parry an attack
2) Basic attack which deals limited damage but puts a debuff on enemies that damages them when they try to run away using lightness (dodge) skills.
3) Parry break which knocks the enemy down and inflicts the "Foul Qi" debuff if successful.
4) AOE move, can knock enemies down. If cast in the air it is instant and has more hits, but only has a 50% chance of knocking down. If cast on the ground it has only one hit and a 3 seconds cast time but a 100% chance of knocking an enemy down. Every stack of the "Breeze Qi" buff reduces the ground cast time by 1/3 and increases the knock down chance. Enemies that are knocked down receive the "Foul Qi" state.
5) Ranged line AOE. Deals more damage for every stack of "Breeze Qi" on you. Enemies who are hit by this attack while afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state are unable to parry for 3 seconds.
6) Ranged rage move. Hits more times when cast in the air. Deals more damage to enemies while they are afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state.
There you have it folks, only 6 abilities but each of them interacts with the others in a unique way. Each of those is specifically tailored for that set and you can devise multiple strategies around them. Even more so because the game in question even allows you to tailor combos later on, cancelling the cast time or animation on certain moves.
And if you discover more skillsets, you can switch in between them to cover your weaknesses. All the while you will never need to use more than 5-7 abilities coupled with your F -keys to switch between sets. So YOU make the choice whether you want to master a few sets completely or go for a large amount of sets to cover all your weaknesses, the devs don't make it for you.
That should be the goal.
However, most of the games that forcefully pin you down to a limited amount of abilities don't even attempt to create interaction between the abilities. They just force you to pick a small number out of a big pool of unappealing stuff and call that "making an interesting choice".
The result is a combat system that is barely more engaging than your average hack & slash. And I regret to say that ESO is not an exception to that at all.
Agree. This is the best approach to not having too many skills but making those few that more interesting.
The problem is that many people here see the world in balck/white. It's either 30, 40, 50... abilities or 5. To them there is nothing in between.
ESO's combat system is, imo, a simple copay/paste from GW2. Even down to combos which are supposedly useful only with another player. Which means that while playing solo you have almost no way to test them, to get better with them. And since many players play solo a lot, it just means that combos, which are added to enrich our experience in combat, are rarely used and thus not appreciated enough.
I seriously hope ESO will change that, but according to other sources, it works the same as GW2's combo system does.
Imo, 5 skill system is the result of multi platform design. How can you expect box or station players to use 15, 20 abilities when their stick doesn't have so many buttons? Well change the system so even those that can use so many skills, can't. And then let those users find an excuse for such a design choice.
i understand this and was talking with friends earlyier about the main reason ofr the way the abilities are set up has more to do with the consules then game balenceing i dont care for PC gameing being dumbed down for consule but i understand why it is done.
also i agree with the first qoute, i wish ESO worked that way i wouldnt have issues if your skill known matched the number you could use.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
i fill like people are still missing my point, and i fill this way because i aree with what people are saying but they are responding to me as if im saying something im not.
so ill try from a diffrent angle.
i dont care that the hotbar only ha 5 abilities avilable on it i have played many games like this bfore what bothers me is that i can have far more skill then this but cant use them, if a game is only going to let you use that many abilites then it should only let you learn that many.
my point is that i should be able to use everything i have learned, if you want to give me a huge selection to pick from but limit how many i can learn im fine with it, what i am not ok with is a game that lets me learn a large amount of abilites but only lets me use a much smaller amount especilly when i have to invest points into learning earlyier abilites that i wont be able to use due to this limitation.
this is a waste of skill points and makes me fill like im wasteing my time on them since i will never use them.
i jsut dont uderstand why people like this kind of system please explain to me why you like only being able to use a small portion of what your character has learnd to do.
First off, you are forgetting about passive skills, not everything you spend points on will be active skills. Secondly, one character could preform different roles in a group by switching skills and weapons, you just have to take the time to switch them out. You are being forced to make a choice about which active skills you use at a particular time, for some that is refreshing. Having to make that choice means a more intuitive build and subsequent play style.
reticle based combat dont need a wow interface full of hotbars. A small hotbar in a reticle based mmo can be as tactical or mashy as a full hotbar tab target mmo. It depends on how you play. However, as long as there are enough skills to choose from then i am OK with both ways. I didnt get to lvl 15 in TESO so i didnt get to use the weapon swap, but the fact that it is there gave the game more value to me because i also felt that 5 skills, 1 utility and 1 ultimate are not enough. And since weapon swap also swaps the hotbar (like GW2) its really nice to have at least 10 skills, 2 ultimates and 2 utilities.
I don't mind having 5 active skills available at at time (technically 10 with weapon swapping). It does not at all mean the game is "dumbed down". In fact you have to choose your skills more wisely cause you are limited. I'm sure they limited it due to it also being a console game. Anyways, I prefer at the very least 10 active skills.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
Actually there're 12 of them after lvl 15 (after receiving ability to swap weapon).
New player will need time to get into mechanics, so 6 abilities at start is just fine. Plus you can use dodges, blocking and interruption. Cant say ESO combat is something exploding your mind, but its pretty live and fine, and not even close to dumbing down. The only thing I really dislike is autoaiming on the ranged weapon.
It makes me really sad to look at Elder Scrolls online, such a wasted opportunity. They've taken one of the best game IPs in the games industry, taken out literally every game mechanic that makes Skyrim the masterpiece it is and then wrapped it around a cookie cutter MMO.
Lets be honest, the combat is floaty, lacks weight and is a jerky mess. The animation is just as bad and even little things like not being able to swim underwater really jar. In terms of content there's very little to do apart from run from quest to boring quest using said naff combat.
Then we come to the pricing, you guys who play this are being charged top whack. Add to this a monthly sub and then the insult that is a pay wall to access the best race in the game. It feels like a money grab guys, I'm sorry but it makes me really annoyed to see people being ripped off. This game simply cannot survive on the pay model it's being launched at, there is not real end game unless you count the PVP (which I hear is good) and so this will be F2P in the very near future. Same thing happened with Starwars, amazing IP violated by being made into an MMO we've seen a hundred times before.
For me there is only one MMO worth looking at this year and that's Wildstar.
I remember this game called Skyrim. It was pretty good. It also did a pretty good job of creating some challenging content with limited skills.
I think it's too bad that people are concentrating more on how they're doing at creating "just another MMO" versus how they are doing at creating a good game. This is freakin' Elder Scrolls! There have never been 30 skills! Ever! However, I can't think of a "bad" Elder Scrolls game.
Basically the problem is then that your forced to think 'ahead' of time instead of having every skill at your disposal and being able to use whatever you want, when you want?
You have to decide which skill tree's to concentrate on, then how you'll morph those skills .. THEN which are going to sit ready to use and order. 5 is a good number seeing as it's easier for everyone to use and i don't mean pc & console.
There are those with restricted movement i see posting in the various mmo's regarding the amount of keys/dexterity needed to use and while it's easy to say you find it simple, not everyone does. Myself even 5 causes a problem .. 1, 2, 3 ok .. 4 not so, 5 hmm
So while some want, cry for more, some are fine with the current system.
I just hope we don't get the usual min/max and 'you can only join if you have this build' mentality in ESO. When i started playing mmo's (Ultima Online) you decided what you wanted to play and no-one else. Nowaday's there's to much of other players deciding what your skillset should be, the games are supposed to be about fun, not numbers in a raid, if it takes longer it takes longer. If you faceplant, get over it and work on a new tactic around the current group
i understand people arguments for less abilities but, i ahve a major issue with it.
if the game gives me 15 abilities each of which are still usefull to me i would like the option to use those abilites when i want to. giveing me said 15 abilities ( im useing a general number here just for reference) but says i can only use 5 or even 10 with weapon swapping still means there are 5 i cant use, THAT PISSES ME OFF.
im sorry but if you wanted me to only be able to use a set number of abilites then only GIVE me a set number of abilites that i can actully learn. im sick of games that go you can have 100 diffrent abilites learned by your charecter but you can only use 5 of them i hated it in guild wars and i still hate it here.
so to make it simple if i have a abilit learned on a charecter i should be able to use it whenever i want. if the game dousnt want that kind of thing dont let me learn so many abilites then block it behind limited hotbat slots. i fial to understand why people are cool with this its the dumbest thing i ever heard.
Name me 15 different abilities. For four different classes. So list sixty.
The combat in DCUO is actually really good, obviously better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard, but still it's actually quite good.
Not every game needs to do the exact same thing, and it's nice to see games utilize mechanics other than the screen full of hotbars. A lot of people like FPS and action style games.
PvP in DCUO has always been one of it's strongest points because of the action combat. It always rewards a good bit of player skill, and makes it possible for someone of a far lower level to actually win against someone who is higher level.
Having said that, ESO is an incredibly pale and shallow comparison to DCUO.
Even console gamers are going to be disappointed with ESO's combat.
i understand people arguments for less abilities but, i ahve a major issue with it.
if the game gives me 15 abilities each of which are still usefull to me i would like the option to use those abilites when i want to. giveing me said 15 abilities ( im useing a general number here just for reference) but says i can only use 5 or even 10 with weapon swapping still means there are 5 i cant use, THAT PISSES ME OFF.
im sorry but if you wanted me to only be able to use a set number of abilites then only GIVE me a set number of abilites that i can actully learn. im sick of games that go you can have 100 diffrent abilites learned by your charecter but you can only use 5 of them i hated it in guild wars and i still hate it here.
so to make it simple if i have a abilit learned on a charecter i should be able to use it whenever i want. if the game dousnt want that kind of thing dont let me learn so many abilites then block it behind limited hotbat slots. i fial to understand why people are cool with this its the dumbest thing i ever heard.
Name me 15 different abilities. For four different classes. So list sixty.
is the NDA fully lifted?
screw it i dont care, to be honest i dont rember them all.
but lets see per class you got 3 trees and 5 skill in each tree all these skill are activated not passive, the passive skill are seperate,
thats 15 on its own not counting weapons each of which has the same set up, and with weapon swapping that brings you to a total of 25 activateable abilites, per class, unless of course your swapped weapon is the exact same weapon which most people will do cause they will need the hotbr slots.
ost of these abilites each serve a difretn purpose and or pull from mana or stamina seperately, so there are no real skills you would WANT to not use and at the rate you get skill points nake you easly get most of them and we arnt even able to get to high levels yet.
but whatever im apprently the only one who dousnt like being restricted so im done with all of this you will all just continue to tell me im stupid or a fool for not happily accepting this kind of restriction put needlesly on you, and will happily call it a good thing so enjoy i wish ya the best of luck and fun.
P.S. if i rember right its 6 weapon styles so with that 30 activateble abilites, for all classes and then 15 for the class so 45 activateble abilites in total you CAN learn on one char although that would be silly to be honest.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
i fill like people are still missing my point, and i fill this way because i aree with what people are saying but they are responding to me as if im saying something im not.
so ill try from a diffrent angle.
i dont care that the hotbar only ha 5 abilities avilable on it i have played many games like this bfore what bothers me is that i can have far more skill then this but cant use them, if a game is only going to let you use that many abilites then it should only let you learn that many.
my point is that i should be able to use everything i have learned, if you want to give me a huge selection to pick from but limit how many i can learn im fine with it, what i am not ok with is a game that lets me learn a large amount of abilites but only lets me use a much smaller amount especilly when i have to invest points into learning earlyier abilites that i wont be able to use due to this limitation.
this is a waste of skill points and makes me fill like im wasteing my time on them since i will never use them.
i jsut dont uderstand why people like this kind of system please explain to me why you like only being able to use a small portion of what your character has learnd to do.
What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.
5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.
Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.
EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.
Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.
The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.
I prefer this style. It's a bit overkill in the older MMOs (EQ2, WoW, etc) that by the time you reach an end-game raid you only have 1 inch of screen space left that's not covered in UI.
What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.
5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.
Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.
EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.
Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.
The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.
Very well said ! I totally agree with you Its too bad that fanboys of their stand alones cant see what is happening. I know that I will not purchase this game.
So tired of MMOs with UI bars of attacks. You either:
(A)Stare at your cooldowns on your bars and tab target, but do not watch the action.
(B)Set macros of predefined actions and tab target.
With the limited UI, no global cooldowns, and one action bar. I get to watch the action unfold and make instant dicisions about what is best to use in that moment. Not macros and cooldowns, but the actual fight!
And I like life like armor and weapons. I don't want to carry a greatsword that is bigger than me and be able to swing it, as if it had the weight of a spaghetti noodle. The more realistic armor and weapons lends it self to my suspension of disbelief and therefore immersion into the game.
So tired of MMOs with UI bars of attacks. You either:
(A)Stare at your cooldowns on your bars and tab target, but do not watch the action.
(B)Set macros of predefined actions and tab target.
With the limited UI, no global cooldowns, and one action bar. I get to watch the action unfold and make instant dicisions about what is best to use in that moment. Not macros and cooldowns, but the actual fight!
And I like life like armor and weapons. I don't want to carry a greatsword that is bigger than me and be able to swing it, as if it had the weight of a spaghetti noodle. The more realistic armor and weapons lends it self to my suspension of disbelief and therefore immersion into the game.
i agree with part of this, i prefer my MMO to lean more towards real then bikini armor thats for sure, i dont mind a bit of embelshing for the sake of looks but i prefer the armor to apear fuctinal.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
If it was just 5 abilities, I'd say its not very complex..
However it has around 15 Abilities total you'll be using, Which is a good number...
Anything past that and you start to get into silliness...You end up basically needing abilities on Long Cooldowns at that point.
DAOC is a good example of that, You'd generally use about 15 abilities most of the time in terms of abilities used constantly, and then you'd have your secondary abilities with longer cooldowns, Like certain ML's, Artifacts, RAs and such..and of course the game was a bit slower pace then games today, You'd never be able to have something like that in GW2 for example, because you can instantly be killed in that by some specs...
Then there are other games that really go overboard, and then you start needing a Complex Macro system to make it work..like Rift...
And having all those abilities in that game does work for Rift, I enjoy Rift because of it..But imagine if you didn't have a Macro system how god awful Rift would be to play... Some Macro's in that game have me using 10 abilities, In a single macro...
So you can have games with a vast number abilities, but then you're having to use Macro's to bring them down to the 15 Button level to make it playable.
The plain fact of the matter is that in way does this game warrant a $15 sub with a cash shop. I dont care if the cash shop has bs in it for the most part. I gotta say this close to release having a game that is supposed to have a giant PvP area but locking it under NDA isn't really a good idea unless you are hiding stuff.
The plain fact of the matter is that in way does this game warrant a $15 sub with a cash shop. I dont care if the cash shop has bs in it for the most part. I gotta say this close to release having a game that is supposed to have a giant PvP area but locking it under NDA isn't really a good idea unless you are hiding stuff.
BUT I'm not saying i was here there or anywhere.
At this point, if you've not seen the giant pvp area, and you're blaming the NDA, you're really the one at fault.
They've been handing out keys like Candy, You could of gotten level 10 in beta, and checked it out yourself..I did it the very first week of beta when I got in.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
you all sem to be mising my point. its not that i miss this, cause i dont.
but tell me something ave you ever taken up a martial style, most martial artist know dozen of technics, and while it is true they ahve faverite ones to use, that dousnt mean they limit themselves to only useing 5 at a time, learning something new dosunt mean you ahve to give up on useing old knowledge, so why is it i have to limit myself to 5 ailities when i ccna easly learn 20 or more.
why must i be constrained but told i ave choice.
You are clearly missing the point. Having endless hotbar slots to spam skills from is not a choice, it's just more options. A choice is deciding if you need two knock back skills or just one and a AoE root, morphing a skill to hit two targets or picking up a passive armor ability. Since every class can learn practically every ability, there needs to be restrictions put in place. If not, everyone will just end up with 30 key binds like in wow with no original builds or creativity. RPGs are about building a character, that process only happens by making tough choices.
Let me see if I can help here as I think something is being missed.
Ok there are the NUMBER of options you have. Fine. I think we all understand this part.
But you must also consider the the INTERACTIONS of the options you have. In other words some skills synergize with other and have a multiplicative effect. Some skills simply have additive effects to one another. Some skill have very little effect on one another.
MMOs tend to severely limit what can be done power wise even more than single player RPGs. In general you cannot be allowed to solo a group dungeon etc.
Thus MMOs place hard limits on such power.
When you have a game with many skills all useable at once you MUST seriously curtail synergies between them. This is why EQ clones tend to make all buffs non-stackable. Whereas a game like City of Heroes allowed two forcefield defenders buffs to stack up, because the synergies were designed into the game.
So I would suggest to people who have trouble with games that give you many skills and then limit the number you can use at any one time that you should view it with the following trade off in mind.
The more skills you have the less synergy you get.
The less skills you have the more potential powerful synergies there should be.
Now if a game limits you to only a few skills and there are no interesting synergies then I will grant you there is a problem. But personally I game weight toward more powerful and interesting syngery combination than one that just bloats the game with numerous but weak options that don't combine with much effect.
I can't tell you if this game has these synergies as I have not played beta yet, but I would definitely reccomend to people that they should use this tradeoff in discussions about this issue or they will wind up not really getting anywhere.
This is especially important because synergistic effects can be much more subtle and you may validly believe the game's skill mechanics are boring when in fact you just missed some key interactions.
What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of ......
If I will not buy and play it - which will very likely happen - will be exactly because of this SILLY BUTTON MASHING limit with 5 buttons. If I would be happy with 5 buttons would stay on PS or XBox. Sole reason lost all wish to continue to play TSW.
Comments
i fill like people are still missing my point, and i fill this way because i aree with what people are saying but they are responding to me as if im saying something im not.
so ill try from a diffrent angle.
i dont care that the hotbar only ha 5 abilities avilable on it i have played many games like this bfore what bothers me is that i can have far more skill then this but cant use them, if a game is only going to let you use that many abilites then it should only let you learn that many.
my point is that i should be able to use everything i have learned, if you want to give me a huge selection to pick from but limit how many i can learn im fine with it, what i am not ok with is a game that lets me learn a large amount of abilites but only lets me use a much smaller amount especilly when i have to invest points into learning earlyier abilites that i wont be able to use due to this limitation.
this is a waste of skill points and makes me fill like im wasteing my time on them since i will never use them.
i jsut dont uderstand why people like this kind of system please explain to me why you like only being able to use a small portion of what your character has learnd to do.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Sorry, but that is just silly. GW2 combat was based around positioning and cool downs, while being a tab target game with auto attack. ESO is based on resource management and skill selection. The only things they have in common are dodge roll, weapon switch and a restrictive hot bar.
i understand this and was talking with friends earlyier about the main reason ofr the way the abilities are set up has more to do with the consules then game balenceing i dont care for PC gameing being dumbed down for consule but i understand why it is done.
also i agree with the first qoute, i wish ESO worked that way i wouldnt have issues if your skill known matched the number you could use.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
First off, you are forgetting about passive skills, not everything you spend points on will be active skills. Secondly, one character could preform different roles in a group by switching skills and weapons, you just have to take the time to switch them out. You are being forced to make a choice about which active skills you use at a particular time, for some that is refreshing. Having to make that choice means a more intuitive build and subsequent play style.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Actually there're 12 of them after lvl 15 (after receiving ability to swap weapon).New player will need time to get into mechanics, so 6 abilities at start is just fine. Plus you can use dodges, blocking and interruption. Cant say ESO combat is something exploding your mind, but its pretty live and fine, and not even close to dumbing down. The only thing I really dislike is autoaiming on the ranged weapon.
Wildstar is also a cookie cutter MMO.
I remember this game called Skyrim. It was pretty good. It also did a pretty good job of creating some challenging content with limited skills.
I think it's too bad that people are concentrating more on how they're doing at creating "just another MMO" versus how they are doing at creating a good game. This is freakin' Elder Scrolls! There have never been 30 skills! Ever! However, I can't think of a "bad" Elder Scrolls game.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Basically the problem is then that your forced to think 'ahead' of time instead of having every skill at your disposal and being able to use whatever you want, when you want?
You have to decide which skill tree's to concentrate on, then how you'll morph those skills .. THEN which are going to sit ready to use and order. 5 is a good number seeing as it's easier for everyone to use and i don't mean pc & console.
There are those with restricted movement i see posting in the various mmo's regarding the amount of keys/dexterity needed to use and while it's easy to say you find it simple, not everyone does. Myself even 5 causes a problem .. 1, 2, 3 ok .. 4 not so, 5 hmm
So while some want, cry for more, some are fine with the current system.
I just hope we don't get the usual min/max and 'you can only join if you have this build' mentality in ESO. When i started playing mmo's (Ultima Online) you decided what you wanted to play and no-one else. Nowaday's there's to much of other players deciding what your skillset should be, the games are supposed to be about fun, not numbers in a raid, if it takes longer it takes longer. If you faceplant, get over it and work on a new tactic around the current group
Name me 15 different abilities. For four different classes. So list sixty.
The combat in DCUO is actually really good, obviously better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard, but still it's actually quite good.
Not every game needs to do the exact same thing, and it's nice to see games utilize mechanics other than the screen full of hotbars. A lot of people like FPS and action style games.
PvP in DCUO has always been one of it's strongest points because of the action combat. It always rewards a good bit of player skill, and makes it possible for someone of a far lower level to actually win against someone who is higher level.
Having said that, ESO is an incredibly pale and shallow comparison to DCUO.
Even console gamers are going to be disappointed with ESO's combat.
is the NDA fully lifted?
screw it i dont care, to be honest i dont rember them all.
but lets see per class you got 3 trees and 5 skill in each tree all these skill are activated not passive, the passive skill are seperate,
thats 15 on its own not counting weapons each of which has the same set up, and with weapon swapping that brings you to a total of 25 activateable abilites, per class, unless of course your swapped weapon is the exact same weapon which most people will do cause they will need the hotbr slots.
ost of these abilites each serve a difretn purpose and or pull from mana or stamina seperately, so there are no real skills you would WANT to not use and at the rate you get skill points nake you easly get most of them and we arnt even able to get to high levels yet.
but whatever im apprently the only one who dousnt like being restricted so im done with all of this you will all just continue to tell me im stupid or a fool for not happily accepting this kind of restriction put needlesly on you, and will happily call it a good thing so enjoy i wish ya the best of luck and fun.
P.S. if i rember right its 6 weapon styles so with that 30 activateble abilites, for all classes and then 15 for the class so 45 activateble abilites in total you CAN learn on one char although that would be silly to be honest.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
One word: strategy.
You want lots of button..............go play WOW
Very well said ! I totally agree with you Its too bad that fanboys of their stand alones cant see what is happening. I know that I will not purchase this game.
So tired of MMOs with UI bars of attacks. You either:
(A)Stare at your cooldowns on your bars and tab target, but do not watch the action.
(B)Set macros of predefined actions and tab target.
With the limited UI, no global cooldowns, and one action bar. I get to watch the action unfold and make instant dicisions about what is best to use in that moment. Not macros and cooldowns, but the actual fight!
And I like life like armor and weapons. I don't want to carry a greatsword that is bigger than me and be able to swing it, as if it had the weight of a spaghetti noodle. The more realistic armor and weapons lends it self to my suspension of disbelief and therefore immersion into the game.
i agree with part of this, i prefer my MMO to lean more towards real then bikini armor thats for sure, i dont mind a bit of embelshing for the sake of looks but i prefer the armor to apear fuctinal.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
If it was just 5 abilities, I'd say its not very complex..
However it has around 15 Abilities total you'll be using, Which is a good number...
Anything past that and you start to get into silliness...You end up basically needing abilities on Long Cooldowns at that point.
DAOC is a good example of that, You'd generally use about 15 abilities most of the time in terms of abilities used constantly, and then you'd have your secondary abilities with longer cooldowns, Like certain ML's, Artifacts, RAs and such..and of course the game was a bit slower pace then games today, You'd never be able to have something like that in GW2 for example, because you can instantly be killed in that by some specs...
Then there are other games that really go overboard, and then you start needing a Complex Macro system to make it work..like Rift...
And having all those abilities in that game does work for Rift, I enjoy Rift because of it..But imagine if you didn't have a Macro system how god awful Rift would be to play... Some Macro's in that game have me using 10 abilities, In a single macro...
So you can have games with a vast number abilities, but then you're having to use Macro's to bring them down to the 15 Button level to make it playable.
The plain fact of the matter is that in way does this game warrant a $15 sub with a cash shop. I dont care if the cash shop has bs in it for the most part. I gotta say this close to release having a game that is supposed to have a giant PvP area but locking it under NDA isn't really a good idea unless you are hiding stuff.
BUT I'm not saying i was here there or anywhere.
At this point, if you've not seen the giant pvp area, and you're blaming the NDA, you're really the one at fault.
They've been handing out keys like Candy, You could of gotten level 10 in beta, and checked it out yourself..I did it the very first week of beta when I got in.
Let me see if I can help here as I think something is being missed.
Ok there are the NUMBER of options you have. Fine. I think we all understand this part.
But you must also consider the the INTERACTIONS of the options you have. In other words some skills synergize with other and have a multiplicative effect. Some skills simply have additive effects to one another. Some skill have very little effect on one another.
MMOs tend to severely limit what can be done power wise even more than single player RPGs. In general you cannot be allowed to solo a group dungeon etc.
Thus MMOs place hard limits on such power.
When you have a game with many skills all useable at once you MUST seriously curtail synergies between them. This is why EQ clones tend to make all buffs non-stackable. Whereas a game like City of Heroes allowed two forcefield defenders buffs to stack up, because the synergies were designed into the game.
So I would suggest to people who have trouble with games that give you many skills and then limit the number you can use at any one time that you should view it with the following trade off in mind.
The more skills you have the less synergy you get.
The less skills you have the more potential powerful synergies there should be.
Now if a game limits you to only a few skills and there are no interesting synergies then I will grant you there is a problem. But personally I game weight toward more powerful and interesting syngery combination than one that just bloats the game with numerous but weak options that don't combine with much effect.
I can't tell you if this game has these synergies as I have not played beta yet, but I would definitely reccomend to people that they should use this tradeoff in discussions about this issue or they will wind up not really getting anywhere.
This is especially important because synergistic effects can be much more subtle and you may validly believe the game's skill mechanics are boring when in fact you just missed some key interactions.
If I will not buy and play it - which will very likely happen - will be exactly because of this SILLY BUTTON MASHING limit with 5 buttons. If I would be happy with 5 buttons would stay on PS or XBox. Sole reason lost all wish to continue to play TSW.