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"People are just playing it wrong!"

ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

In response to many of the critical articles posted today, I've seen multiple people say "Well, you can't just play it like you play XYZ game".     (like a themepark, like skyrim, like wow, etc.)

 

Here is the thing though.  Any game is a directed experience.  It motivates you to play it a certain way.  It doesn't matter if it's sandbox or themepark or any other label you pick.   If a game is a sandbox (like Skyrim), it motivates you to play it as a sandbox - it motivates you to go randomly into the mountains by placing into every mountain an explorable cave/dungeon that probably has interesting mobs, interesting story and interesting loot.   The presence of these things "directs you" to go randomly and explore.    

 

The same can be said for a typical quest-hub themepark MMO, it motivates you to go to the next quest hub - it motivates you by giving 90% of xp for quests, by having one quest lead into the next hub, but having quests provide majority of gear upgrades, but having very little to discover beyond where the quests take you, by having little or no reward for just killing stuff and exploring.  

 

These are just examples.  They don't talk about beta - which i can't due to NDA.  

 

But for those that say "the reviewer played it wrong", i say - the game probably motivated the reviewer to play itself that way.  I don't mean to excuse bad reviews or stupid players - i'm sure both exist in abundance.  But you should consider - if the game had all these things that the reviewer missed - why wasn't the reviewer motivated by the game to go do them?    

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO

«13

Comments

  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Member Posts: 1,090

    The problem with your reasoning is that much of the negative publicity this game has received isn't due to a lack of  the features that reviewer was looking for.  It's that the reviewer was looking for the wrong features to begin with.  In other words, TESO's major problem is that it's being compared to its own IP.  Many of these reviewers expect you to be able to do everything in TESO that you can do in the single player games.  And, you simply can't in an MMO format.  It doesn't work.  

    That's not to say there aren't valid concerns, because there are.  But TESO's worst enemy isn't that it lacks features, content, or solid gameplay.  It's worst enemy is that it's carrying the Elder Scrolls name, and because of that, people are coming in with unrealistic expectations of what to expect.  

    Zenimax has recreated Tamriel, the world.  But not all the little things that makes Elder Scrolls what it is.  It's unfortunate, because comparing it to other MMOs, it holds up quite well.  Comparing it to the Elder Scrolls IP, it feels like it's lacking, even if they did a good job of re-creating the game world and the atmosphere of the franchise.

    I'm not sandbox apologist. In fact, I've yet to find one outside of Eve that was worth a damn.  But this game, considering the IP it shares, WOULD have been better developed as a straight sandbox with some story elements, if possible.  Making it a themepark game, no matter how great it was for the story, didn't do it any favors for the series it was trying to bring to life, since The Elder Scrolls has always been about open, non-linear gameplay.  

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Even when you compare it to an MMORPG, at least for the first 15 levels, it's pretty bleh. My opinion of course.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,942

    I kind of agree with Rebel.

    I agree that games are in some ways a directed experience but some players are complaining about things that really aren't supposed to be "about" the experience

     

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Member Posts: 1,090
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Even when you compare it to an MMORPG, at least for the first 15 levels, it's pretty bleh. My opinion of course.

    Not my opinion at all.  But everyone has their own feelings about what a solid MMO is supposed to be.

  • HolophonistHolophonist Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    I kind of agree and disagree OP. Yes, games are directed experiences. For instance if a themepark wanted you to play more like an TES game, they could have quests that are more than 30 feet away from where you got it. If ESO does that, that will help.

     

    However, we ARE influenced by things outside of the game's control. If people are used to skipping cutscenes and dialogue because it's often not worth it, they may continue to do so in ESO, when maybe they shouldn't.

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Problem with the MMORPG genre is that it's too popular.  Leaving players, developers and 'reviewers' alike to come up with their own opinion about how something should play.  And seldom do those expectations actually meet reality.
  • RaventreeRaventree Member Posts: 456
    I agree that people's expectations are shaping their views way too much on this game, when they should just be experiencing it the way it is before jumping to conclusions.  I am personally loving it, but the endgame PVP is what will make or break it for me.  The rest is just some polishing details.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by Holophonist
    If people are used to skipping cutscenes and dialogue because it's often not worth it, they may continue to do so in ESO, when maybe they shouldn't.

    I want to respond to this specifically, since this tends to come up a lot.    Yes, some people just skip cutscenes and don't read quests as a hard habit.  But i think that for the vast majority of us, it just depends on the quality.  

     

    I've done over 2,000 quests in EQ2 (which i've been playing for 10 years) and i can tell you that despite this fact, there is very little that will make me read more than 1 out of every 500 of those quest.   The writing is horrid, the lore in general is atrocious and it all makes absolutely no sense in relation to the game i'm playing.  At the same time, I read and soak up every last tidbit of the (very wordy) LoTRO quests - they both read well and help frame the game world.   

     

    The same is true about listening to voiced dialogue/cut-scenes.  I will hang on to word and relish every NPC interaction in TSW, because it is so vibrant and well-written.  But i will spacerbar (skip) virtually all dialogue in SWTOR because it seems to have been written by 12yr-olds for their younger, dumber siblings.  And it has nothing to do with the overall game world either, I think the world of Star Wars is one of the richest and most interesting in existence, but this doesn't change that SWTOR is a horribly written game.   (The relation here is that just because TES is a rich world, doesn't make every TES game have good writing by the virtue of being set there.)

     

    TL;DR - I think more than anything, things come down to the quality of the writing and the relation to the game world.  We all know ESO has hired all these famous actors, but are they reading stuff that's interesting and relevant to the player?   If they are, i don't think people will want to skip cutscenes.     Some of the examples that are being quoted in the articles are pretty awful, but some are quite good, so based on the reviews, I would say that it sounds like it's a bit of both.   

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    While they could have made it more sanboxy - there is a limit to what you can do in an MMO. The closest they could have come is with the EQ model with factions and quest related to each factions and other NPC factions ending up hating you. I don't consider that a sandbox but it might have made some fans happier.

    Expecting an MMO to work exactly like a single player game is unfair. The good news is the multiplayer aspect will bring some bonuses - like actual balance in the combat design. No more will I have to avoid powerful skills to make the game fun.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Expecting an MMO to work exactly like a single player game is unfair.

    I've only played 2 days of skyrim in my life (and I hated Oblivion with a passion), so i'm by no means any kind of ESO fanboy... but from a purely theoretical standpoint, i disagree in this case. 

     

    If you look at Fallen Earth - it's basically EXACTLY an MMO version of Skyrim.  So saying "Single-player design doesn't work in an MMO" - while usually true - depends a lot on which part of the single-player design you're talking about.    In my limited Skyrim experience, I'm yet to see ANYTHING in that single-player game that I haven't seen done in a MMO.  (Ok, PvE stealing hasn't been done very well in an MMO, but that's the closest thing i can think of.)

     

    P.S.   Also, i think it's unfair to expect the single-player game to be as big as the MMO, if it's vice-versa, you got issues. 

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    the only people who are doing it wrong are the ones who claim they LOVE the Elder Scrolls games and dont accept the Flaws that ESO has. People who really love the TES games should be calling Zenimax out demanding a superior game for the money they want to charge. They have little time before launch to make that happen or go f2p with just another mmo from the bunch. EDIT: only a few flaws, but they are pretty big.




  • skyline385skyline385 Member Posts: 564
    Originally posted by RebelScum99

    The problem with your reasoning is that much of the negative publicity this game has received isn't due to a lack of  the features that reviewer was looking for.  It's that the reviewer was looking for the wrong features to begin with.  In other words, TESO's major problem is that it's being compared to its own IP.  Many of these reviewers expect you to be able to do everything in TESO that you can do in the single player games.  And, you simply can't in an MMO format.  It doesn't work.  

    That's not to say there aren't valid concerns, because there are.  But TESO's worst enemy isn't that it lacks features, content, or solid gameplay.  It's worst enemy is that it's carrying the Elder Scrolls name, and because of that, people are coming in with unrealistic expectations of what to expect.  

    Zenimax has recreated Tamriel, the world.  But not all the little things that makes Elder Scrolls what it is.  It's unfortunate, because comparing it to other MMOs, it holds up quite well.  Comparing it to the Elder Scrolls IP, it feels like it's lacking, even if they did a good job of re-creating the game world and the atmosphere of the franchise.

    I'm not sandbox apologist. In fact, I've yet to find one outside of Eve that was worth a damn.  But this game, considering the IP it shares, WOULD have been better developed as a straight sandbox with some story elements, if possible.  Making it a themepark game, no matter how great it was for the story, didn't do it any favors for the series it was trying to bring to life, since The Elder Scrolls has always been about open, non-linear gameplay.  

    Making the gameplay Open and Non Linear doesnt make it a sandbox. And ES series have never been a sandbox lol. They are all Single player Themeparks with very tiny sandbox elements.

    image
  • LydarSynnLydarSynn Member UncommonPosts: 181
    I've played a little bit of the beta. I haven't kept up with the hype or expectations so I went in with no expectations. From what I have seen so far, TESO seems to be a run of the mill theme park. IMO, they could have called the world anything and it would not have mattered. I have already found myself not reading quest dialogue. If it were going to be FTP, I might leave it installed. I definitely won't be buying a box and paying a sub.
  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,187
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Even when you compare it to an MMORPG, at least for the first 15 levels, it's pretty bleh. My opinion of course.

    Exactly and a lot of those reviewers stated as much. But of course the fanboys are going to do everything they can to attempt to dismiss ANYTHING said about the game that does make it look favorable.

    The angry Joe review was spot on, all three of them made comparisons to BOTH Skyrim AND other MMOs which MUST be done because the game is trying to target both fans of the IP and MMO players at the same time.

    People need to deal with it, the game tried to be everything for everyone and turned into mediocre crap because of it.

    No one is dismissing anything. It's more that you and others won't be happy unless those who are still enjoying it despite the mixed reviews join the negative pack.

    The game was doomed from day one to fail in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible to live up to the experience of the single player games even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't trying to duplicate that experience because it just isn't possible to compare an MMO to a single player experience. What I think some of you fail to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above those games and may end up doing just fine...we shall see. 

    Why for example Final Fantasy gets praised despite its slow combat, cramped zones, linear to the max questing system, and how quick you can easily level is beyond me when this game is a big step from what that game offered in just about every way.

    The only thing that annoys me about this game which i said ages ago is that they should have gone with a monthly fee similar to a Netflix subscription. They crossed a mental barrier which is hard to live up to and I think they are going to get hurt by that in the long run.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • darkwarhammedarkwarhamme Member UncommonPosts: 55
    I think a reviewer hit the nail on the head, can't remember if it was from MMORPG.com or not. They stated that reviewers overlooked the flaws that Skyrim had, but yet those same ones that were accepted in Skyrim are not acceptable in ESO (such as combat). Very strange double standard, but thus is the world we live in. Hard to be objective about things that are completely subjective.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Angry Joe hit it on the head, when he said to expect this title to go F2P soon. (And a lot of other things in his review.)
  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by keithian
    l to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc

    I played FF for like a week and didn't like it at all, so i don't feel qualified to say anything about that. 

     

    I played AoC and Rift to cap and SWTOR for a couple of months, so those i can comment on.  In comparison to those, ESO has absolutely the worst combat of the 4.  It has better writing than Rift, probably about the same as TOR and not as good as AoC.  Graphics - because it's newer, it's better than all 4,but in terms of support the game vision, i would say it has better graphics than TOR and ESO, but not as good as AoC, because the combat graphics in AoC were just amazingly badass and worked perfectly with the gritty game world.   ESO by far has the best character progression / skill system of the 4.    Quests are probably the worst of the 4... maybe not as bad as Rift, but close.   

     

    So yeah, if you compare it to "Games of its kind", in my opinion - based on the info available -  it comes out pretty average.  

     

    Note:  all the things referred to for comparison are available to be seen in various posted gameplay videos.  No additional under-NDA information is used.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 263

    Personally, I love all this crying; because let's face it, do you really want to be in ANY game with these whiners crying all the time?

    It will either catch on or it will die a slow death like all the other MMO's of last few years.Either way, you shouldn't care!

    Buy it and play it or stop crying and play something else. What do you mean there is nothing else? Well then, you shouldn't have cried about every damn thing then...

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by darkwarhamme
    flaws that ... were accepted in Skyrim are not acceptable in ESO (such as combat). Very strange double standard, but thus is the world we live in. Hard to be objective about things that are completely subjective.

    I would say, the reason for the double-standard is this:  

    In a single-player RPG, combat is what you do to get through the story.    Once you're done with the whole story, the game ends.

     

    In a MMO, combat is what you are left with after the story ends.  Once you're done wiht the story in an MMO, what you're left with is doing combat over and over and over again.     

     

    This is why combat matters so much more in an MMO.    So it's a very valid double-standard.   My opinion anyway.  

     

    (The same thing is true with balance, I couldn't care less if a my buddy played Dragon Age as a Mage and facerolled everything, while I struggled as a rogue.  We both had fun experiences.  But in an MMO, his mage gets invited to groups/raids and my rogue has to reroll as a mage because i don't do shit for a group.).  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,942
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Even when you compare it to an MMORPG, at least for the first 15 levels, it's pretty bleh. My opinion of course.

    Exactly and a lot of those reviewers stated as much. But of course the fanboys are going to do everything they can to attempt to dismiss ANYTHING said about the game that does make it look favorable.

    The angry Joe review was spot on, all three of them made comparisons to BOTH Skyrim AND other MMOs which MUST be done because the game is trying to target both fans of the IP and MMO players at the same time.

    People need to deal with it, the game tried to be everything for everyone and turned into mediocre crap because of it.

    You are very quick to throw the fanboy moniker around yet you (I believe you said this) indicated you believe everything that Angry Joe says.

    So one type of "fanboy" is ok, the one that you subscribe to, but another is not?

    How about we just look at the evidence and see that the truth of all this is somewhere in the middle?

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,187
    Originally posted by Stizzled
    Originally posted by keithian

    No one is dismissing anything. It's more that you and others won't be happy unless those who are still enjoying it despite the mixed reviews join the negative pack.

    The game was doomed from day one to fail in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible to live up to the experience of the single player games even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't trying to duplicate that experience because it just isn't possible to compare an MMO to a single player experience. What I think some of you fail to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above those games and may end up doing just fine...we shall see. 

    Why for example Final Fantasy gets praised despite its slow combat, cramped zones, linear to the max questing system, and how quick you can easily level is beyond me when this game is a big step from what that game offered in just about every way.

    The only thing that annoys me about this game which i said ages ago is that they should have gone with a monthly fee similar to a Netflix subscription. They crossed a mental barrier which is hard to live up to and I think they are going to get hurt by that in the long run.

    If ZOS wasn't trying to create an ES experience then the game shouldn't have never been made. TES is an iP that most people love, not because of it's lore, but because of it's gameplay. To just completely ignore what most fans enjoy about the IP and shoehorn the lore onto a DAoC remake was a mistake.

    The gameplay and UI are very similar to the single player games. It was impossible to create that do anything you want sandbox feel of the single player games. I knew that from the beginning, thus, I got what I generally expected. Again, there isn't much better out there for themepark MMOers who like to explore so its either this or nothing in my eyes.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by keithian

    No one is dismissing anything. It's more that you and others won't be happy unless those who are still enjoying it despite the mixed reviews join the negative pack.

    The game was doomed from day one to fail in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible to live up to the experience of the single player games even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't trying to duplicate that experience because it just isn't possible to compare an MMO to a single player experience. What I think some of you fail to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above those games and may end up doing just fine...we shall see. 

    That's a whole lot of dismissing going on in your not dismissing anything.

    May I try now?

    It's more that you and others won't be unhappy unless those who are not enjoying it despite the cries of greatness join the happy hippy parade.

    The game was going to be the best ever from day one in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible not to live up to the rose colored glassed days of DaoC even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't remaking it, that they had to duplicate it because this is an MMO and that's how its done. What I think some of you fail to admit in the happy hippy cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are split into 3 parts for an end game PvP zone like Dark Age of Camelot and well, Dark Age of Camelot, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above that of an ant because they bastardized my favorite IP to try to do it, and failed not only on that front but also trying to make a game like the IP. Theres nothing left to see.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Stizzled

    If ZOS wasn't trying to create an ES experience then the game shouldn't have never been made. TES is an iP that most people love, not because of it's lore, but because of it's gameplay. To just completely ignore what most fans enjoy about the IP and shoehorn the lore onto a DAoC remake was a mistake.

    The gameplay and UI are very similar to the single player games. It was impossible for Matt Firor to create that do anything you want sandbox feel of the single player games because he is a bad video game designer and cant do what others have done in the genre. I knew that from the beginning, thus, I got what I generally expected. Again, there isn't much better out there for themepark MMOers who like to explore so its either this or nothing in my eyes.

    Fixed that for you, because you left out the obvious in order to back your personal view. Let your opinion stand as that, and stop trying to state it like its a fact, because it isn't.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,187
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by keithian

    No one is dismissing anything. It's more that you and others won't be happy unless those who are still enjoying it despite the mixed reviews join the negative pack.

    The game was doomed from day one to fail in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible to live up to the experience of the single player games even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't trying to duplicate that experience because it just isn't possible to compare an MMO to a single player experience. What I think some of you fail to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above those games and may end up doing just fine...we shall see. 

    That's a whole lot of dismissing going on in your not dismissing anything.

    May I try now?

    It's more that you and others won't be unhappy unless those who are not enjoying it despite the cries of greatness join the happy hippy parade.

    The game was going to be the best ever from day one in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible not to live up to the rose colored glassed days of DaoC even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't remaking it, that they had to duplicate it because this is an MMO and that's how its done. What I think some of you fail to admit in the happy hippy cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are split into 3 parts for an end game PvP zone like Dark Age of Camelot and well, Dark Age of Camelot, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above that of an ant because they bastardized my favorite IP to try to do it, and failed not only on that front but also trying to make a game like the IP. Theres nothing left to see.

    Who said it was the greatest thing ever? Stop putting words in my mouth. I was referring to the PVE, not PVP. I haven't played that so I don't have an opinion. Even the reviewers haven't scratched the PVP yet. I could care less if you and others don't like it. I do. Should it be better, absolutely, but AGAIN if you compare it to other PVE themeparks out there, there isn't anything better in my eyes so its either play this or play nothing.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by keithian

    No one is dismissing anything. It's more that you and others won't be happy unless those who are still enjoying it despite the mixed reviews join the negative pack.

    The game was doomed from day one to fail in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible to live up to the experience of the single player games even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't trying to duplicate that experience because it just isn't possible to compare an MMO to a single player experience. What I think some of you fail to admit in the negative cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are story focused like Final Fantasy, Age of Conan, Rift, SWTOR, etc, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above those games and may end up doing just fine...we shall see. 

    That's a whole lot of dismissing going on in your not dismissing anything.

    May I try now?

    It's more that you and others won't be unhappy unless those who are not enjoying it despite the cries of greatness join the happy hippy parade.

    The game was going to be the best ever from day one in the eyes of people like you because it was impossible not to live up to the rose colored glassed days of DaoC even though Zenimax said time and time again they aren't remaking it, that they had to duplicate it because this is an MMO and that's how its done. What I think some of you fail to admit in the happy hippy cult is that if you compare the experience to similar games that are split into 3 parts for an end game PvP zone like Dark Age of Camelot and well, Dark Age of Camelot, to me and what I'm looking for it is head and shoulders above that of an ant because they bastardized my favorite IP to try to do it, and failed not only on that front but also trying to make a game like the IP. Theres nothing left to see.

    Who said it was the greatest thing ever? Stop putting words in my mouth. I was referring to the PVE, not PVP. I haven't played that so I don't have an opinion. Even the reviewers haven't scratched the PVP yet. I could care less if you and others don't like it. I do. Should it be better, absolutely, but AGAIN if you compare it to other PVE themeparks out there, there isn't anything better in my eyes so its either play this or play nothing.

    Oh look, more not being dismissive. And yeah, when you completely toss out everything everyone says because it goes against your personal view no matter WHAT it is, you are acting as if its the greatest thing ever. If it wasn't, afterall, you wouldn't just dismiss you would look objectively and even agree at times.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

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