I haven't felt compelled to donate into this because he pretty much said if the KS succeeds or fails they will seek outside funding for the game regardless. I doubt he will be able to fully fund the game through KS only so I will just wait and see how the end result turns out and maybe check it out then.
Kickstarters typically receive 30-50% funding on the last few days (~5-7) and have receive the lowest amount of funding in the middle despite being 3X as many days. You can see this trend on almost any Kicktraq.com chart, though it's not always true. Camelot Unchained and Pathfinder Online both have absolutely exceptional trends even more so than the average in terms of getting funding the last few days.
Pantheon had a really bad start if you consider that it's middle is actually not that bad and about equal to the minimum funding goal they are hoping to achieve. I expect to see as much as 200k the last 5-7 days, though it's possible Pantheon won't follow the usual trend. As such, Pantheon may in fact be on track to receive funding at minimum.
It's certainly going to be a tough for them though. Even with the heavy amount of marketing they are doing it doesn't seem like they are getting as much new backers on board as they can hope for. At least the current backers are donating large amounts of money on average. Hopefully there are a lot of people on the fence waiting to pledge at the last minute till they have the most amount of info available.
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
I disagree with the highlighted section. There are plenty of reasons not to back a Kickstarter project. There's baggage with this one that some people are going to have trouble getting over, and there are other reasons someone may not back Pantheon.
Today is the first that I've even heard of this game and after some research I will be donating. How much is the question. It is what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. I do believe the KS will do fine as word spreads.
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
I disagree with the highlighted section. There are plenty of reasons not to back a Kickstarter project. There's baggage with this one that some people are going to have trouble getting over, and there are other reasons someone may not back Pantheon
You can disagree, I won't begrudge you that. I can say that there is a legion out there playing wow lol and whatever filth ea spews out and they will challenge you. They post numbers on these forums and push their f2p agenda. They say we should just give in and play whatever solo to cap garbage is the current trend, use the in game item mall and like it, or just fade into oblivion and let them have this genre. I won't be the one here telling you that you should have backed this or else you have no voice.
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
I disagree with the highlighted section. There are plenty of reasons not to back a Kickstarter project. There's baggage with this one that some people are going to have trouble getting over, and there are other reasons someone may not back Pantheon
You can disagree, I won't begrudge you that. I can say that there is a legion out there playing wow lol and whatever filth ea spews out and they will challenge you. They post numbers on these forums and push their f2p agenda. They say we should just give in and play whatever solo to cap garbage is the current trend, use the in game item mall and like it, or just fade into oblivion and let them have this genre. I won't be the one here telling you that you should have backed this or else you have no voice.
They will.
yay. melodrama.
anyone who seriously thinks "back this or die" is clueless as to how the world actually works and how people actually make day to day decisions.
i'm glad you're stating you are not going to rub everyone's noses in it if the KS fails and a chance at an old school mmorpg is missed out on this time around. for while this could be the last chance at an mmorpg of this type, there's no guarantees either way. especially in the mmorpg market.
there are a lot of folks who want to see a solid old school mmorpg released. yet, as your respondent mentions there are a series of reasons why they don't back this project's KS. and it's not like a lot of them didn't openly say when this project was first being floated here that there were serious concerns with the management.
BMcQuaid chose to ignore those warnings and those people. when you ignore people you can't expect their already questioning trust to evolve into complete confidence in the project.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
I disagree with the highlighted section. There are plenty of reasons not to back a Kickstarter project. There's baggage with this one that some people are going to have trouble getting over, and there are other reasons someone may not back Pantheon
You can disagree, I won't begrudge you that. I can say that there is a legion out there playing wow lol and whatever filth ea spews out and they will challenge you. They post numbers on these forums and push their f2p agenda. They say we should just give in and play whatever solo to cap garbage is the current trend, use the in game item mall and like it, or just fade into oblivion and let them have this genre. I won't be the one here telling you that you should have backed this or else you have no voice.
They will.
yay. melodrama.
anyone who seriously thinks "back this or die" is clueless as to how the world actually works and how people actually make day to day decisions.
i'm glad you're stating you are not going to rub everyone's noses in it if the KS fails and a chance at an old school mmorpg is missed out on this time around. for while this could be the last chance at an mmorpg of this type, there's no guarantees either way. especially in the mmorpg market.
there are a lot of folks who want to see a solid old school mmorpg released. yet, as your respondent mentions there are a series of reasons why they don't back this project's KS. and it's not like a lot of them didn't openly say when this project was first being floated here that there were serious concerns with the management.
BMcQuaid chose to ignore those warnings and those people. when you ignore people you can't expect their already questioning trust to evolve into complete confidence in the project.
Well, here's how your "real world" works. It works with money. From what ever angle you would like to view it. That's it. This website we are using to forumquest on right now works because of the rift f2p and star trek legacy of romulus adds that I'm seeing right now since I don't have add blocker running. Kick started projects are new and it's at least interesting how they leverage different sources to obtain that money that makes the internet go round. This project has a new company that is excited enough about their own product that they might have to go somewhere else to fund it.
In recent history I think I can safely say that most of the larger producers that would want to back something like this have asked for a certain industry standard to be maintained in order to maximize profit. In order to maintain a certain individual artistic ownership, it's best to be as crowd funded as possible when negotiating a legal document to facilitate this partnership.
Your problem that Brad, or anyone else has to answer for something, I think has been addressed. He talked about VG and EQ and lots of other interesting topics in a few videos now that are right there on the kick starter page. There's pages and pages of people that made games that failed and are working on other projects that we like right now. Vanguard had other issues near launch that made it rough. In the end it still ended up being a good game. These issues are discussed enough.
I'm socially lubricated enough watching this awful super bowl that I felt like typing that all out.
TLDR: Yea fine, it was slightly melodramatic, sorry. I'm still more excited to talk about this game than to play another. It's been a while since that was the case so I'll give them some cash.
I can totally understand some people wanting to wait before they back.. Just want to say as a supporter of this game and someone hoping that this thing gains some traction, consider backing sooner then later. You're not charged till the end date so if you're not happy by then, pull it. The $25 tier is pretty sweet and you can always upgrade later if you want.
Why do I say that? I guess for me, it's a vote for games like this. The more people who back the better the chance it's noticed. It seems like a lot of people are leaning towards backing, but haven't.. I have no evidence to support this but I think the more it looks like this thing will fund the more likely others will back as well. I really do think there is momentum in some of these projects.. I'd hate to wait till the last few days to find out.
Just to clear up a few things I read in this thread.. Some misinformation so to speak by people who don't seem to be backing..heh.. Go figure..The game can be played in 1-3 hour sessions. They are designing the game like that. You can also solo.. It's just not as efficient as grouping. It's really all relevant to the game world.. Personally, I've played enough solo friendly quest hub games to know I'll take forced grouping. That's why they call it niche.
anyone who is on the fence because of Brad.. I strongly suggest you watch his video with Boogie.. The VG talk is about 20mins in.
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What I am talking about is track record. People come on here "oh I'm nervous, oh I"m this oh I'm that" oh but this is an investment
And completely leave out the part about track record. is not track record part of investment? Isn't someone's resume really the most important part? Its not putting down one to bring up another. Its about calling a spade a spade. I am looking at resumes, past games, -track records-
As I said when did this become less about actual games and more about everything else?
Fact is this guy despite all the issues, despite everything still made two good games period. And not just two good games, two good games that had everything that gamers wanted in them. Things that people scream about wanting till this day.
Vanguard had bad optimization, once fixed it was better than anything out there and still has the best game -world- in mmo's till this day. Still the best set of classes and races you will ever see anywhere.
And was a game made by this man when he was a mess.....
"Oh but I don't like his Kickstarter"
So Evequest and Vanguard don't mean anything at all, because you know its not about the Kickstarter its about games...and its about getting another game made...
Its like judging a chef because he is fat
Oh I don't like him because he is fat
But doesn't he make good food and is one of the people responsible for creating that world class recipe?
Yeah yeah who cares about that, he's fat...
But aren't we watching the Food Network?
"But see that doesn't matter, he's fat and he doesn't tap dance like that last guy did"
But the last guy hasn't had anything as good as that guy in double the time"
I care more about having a good game made, not good kickstarters. Oh what's that you made two good games? Here you go, here is my money. Oh damn you made one game that brought me into roleplaying in the first place. Respect bro, here is more money just off of that fact.
Make good games? Get Maquiame's money
"Oh but aren't you worried about his Kickstarter not being as good as the last guy?"
"I am here to play games, not Kickstarters. Fact is if you can make a good game even being in a bad spot in your life I can't wait to see what you can do when you are alright again. Here go for it. Not many people in this industry can say they made -two- good games. And isn't it about games?"
*looks at the name of this site*
mmorpg.com....
Interesting...
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What I am talking about is track record. People come on here "oh I'm nervous, oh I"m this oh I'm that" oh but this is an investment
And completely leave out the part about track record. is not track record part of investment? Isn't someone's resume really the most important part? Its not putting down one to bring up another. Its about calling a spade a spade. I am looking at resumes, past games, -track records-
As I said when did this become less about actual games and more about everything else?
Fact is this guy despite all the issues, despite everything still made two good games period. And not just two good games, two good games that had everything that gamers wanted in them. Things that people scream about wanting till this day.
Vanguard had bad optimization, once fixed it was better than anything out there and still has the best game -world- in mmo's till this day. Still the best set of classes and races you will ever see anywhere.
And was a game made by this man when he was a mess.....
"Oh but I don't like his Kickstarter"
So Evequest and Vanguard don't mean anything at all, because you know its not about the Kickstarter its about games...and its about getting another game made...
Its like judging a chef because he is fat
Oh I don't like him because he is fat
But doesn't he make good food and is one of the people responsible for creating that world class recipe?
Yeah yeah who cares about that, he's fat...
But aren't we watching the Food Network?
"But see that doesn't matter, he's fat and he doesn't tap dance like that last guy did"
But the last guy hasn't had anything as good as that guy in double the time"
I care more about having a good game made, not good kickstarters. Oh what's that you made two good games? Here you go, here is my money. Oh damn you made one game that brought me into roleplaying in the first place. Respect bro, here is more money just off of that fact.
Make good games? Get Maquiame's money
"Oh but aren't you worried about his Kickstarter not being as good as the last guy?"
"I am here to play games, not Kickstarters"
*looks at the name of this site*
mmorpg.com....
Interesting...
I won't back this mainly because I have very little confidence in the product. His track record whether you want to admit it or not is 1-1. Though this is minor compared to my other reasons..
He came in with a half-baked Kickstarter that that looked like he just sort of whipped up on a whim, and was about as lazy as I have ever seen. For me, that matters. I remember being stunned at what I was looking at that day. First impressions and all that.
His intent is to try and fund, and then find a publisher if I'm not mistaken? That rubs me wrong for a variety of reasons.
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What I am talking about is track record. People come on here "oh I'm nervous, oh I"m this oh I'm that" oh but this is an investment
And completely leave out the part about track record. is not track record part of investment? Isn't someone's resume really the most important part? Its not putting down one to bring up another. Its about calling a spade a spade. I am looking at resumes, past games, -track records-
As I said when did this become less about actual games and more about everything else?
Fact is this guy despite all the issues, despite everything still made two good games period. And not just two good games, two good games that had everything that gamers wanted in them. Things that people scream about wanting till this day.
Vanguard had bad optimization, once fixed it was better than anything out there and still has the best game -world- in mmo's till this day. Still the best set of classes and races you will ever see anywhere.
And was a game made by this man when he was a mess.....
"Oh but I don't like his Kickstarter"
So Evequest and Vanguard don't mean anything at all, because you know its not about the Kickstarter its about games...and its about getting another game made...
Its like judging a chef because he is fat
Oh I don't like him because he is fat
But doesn't he make good food and is one of the people responsible for creating that world class recipe?
Yeah yeah who cares about that, he's fat...
But aren't we watching the Food Network?
"But see that doesn't matter, he's fat and he doesn't tap dance like that last guy did"
But the last guy hasn't had anything as good as that guy in double the time"
I care more about having a good game made, not good kickstarters. Oh what's that you made two good games? Here you go, here is my money. Oh damn you made one game that brought me into roleplaying in the first place. Respect bro, here is more money just off of that fact.
Make good games? Get Maquiame's money
"Oh but aren't you worried about his Kickstarter not being as good as the last guy?"
"I am here to play games, not Kickstarters"
*looks at the name of this site*
mmorpg.com....
Interesting...
I won't back this mainly because I have very little confidence in the product. His track record whether you want to admit it or not is 1-1. Though this is minor compared to my other reasons..
He came in with a half-baked Kickstarter that that looked like he just sort of whipped up on a whim, and was about as lazy as I have ever seen. For me, that matters. I remember being stunned at what I was looking at that day. First impressions and all that.
His intent is to try and fund, and then find a publisher if I'm not mistaken? That rubs me wrong for a variety of reasons.
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
And for me I personally liked Vanguard. you say its 1:1 i have to ask have you played Vanguard after it was optimized?
Community Q&A videos where he answers alot of questions. Watch the later ones
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
I don't recall ever saying there was lack of information, and I am very well aware of his answer, thank you.
However, what his intents are, and what actually happens are two very different things, no? He has a very minimal goal considering what he is trying to accomplish overall, and its still up in the air if it will fund.
At the end of the day it is a niche genre that not many people will get into.
Open world sounded great but then the design of the game to be based around grouping the whole time goes against what the vast majority of players want in an MMO.
Pantheon is not being developed for the "vast majority". They've made that clear, multiple times, from almost the very beginning of their initial KS video. They're developing the game for a niche - a very specific category of people whom have missed the type of experience a group-centric game can bring, and have been asking and waiting for someone to create that experience again, for years now.
The people following this game, those who've donated, those on the fence, are doing so because the game is something they're specifically interested in and have been wanting someone to create.
It is a massive mistake that they are taking this route.
For you, perhaps. To me it just seems you're not in the audience they're targeting.
If you force options on players they will move on to something else that lets them do what they want, not what the dev thinks is cool.
How can you "force something" on someone if it's what they're looking for in the first place? People following this game, those who are interested in it, are backing and otherwise trying to help promote it, are the very same people for whom it's intended.
What the devs think is "cool", just happens to be what their target audience also thinks is cool. That's why Pantheon is being made.
At a time when peoples lives are getting busier, the last thing most peeps want is to spend hours talking crap and not making progress.
Brad and co. have already addressed that very thing. Multiple times. That the people who enjoyed EQ1 back in the days when they had 8+ hours a day to play, are now older, have jobs, families, etc. They acknowledge this and have already indicated that they're taking steps and implementing systems - with feedback from their target audience - to make the game less demanding of their time, without losing focus on the group experience, etc.
Let's be honest and say that grouping is 3/4 wasting time for the 5th bio of the night
That's not an honest depiction of it at all. That's a gross exaggeration of a situation that happens from time to time, and only in extreme cases does it get even close to 3/4 of the time in a given group. A group that disorganized is likely going to break up long before it gets rolling anyway, because people realize it's a waste of time, and they'd rather seek out other opportunities than sit there and do nothing. That's the case with logical people, anyway.
I played FFXI for almost 8 years. I did a lot of grouping, with a lot of different people. I'd say the times I ran into a situation even close to what you describe happened less than 5% of the parties overall. The majority of the parties I got into - easily over half - ended up going for at least 2 hours, including having to swap out players if someone had to leave. In those cases, the person leaving would - most of the time - give advanced notice so that a replacement could be located before they did. There was the off-chance that they just dropped, or "mysteriously" DC'd right after they got the level they wanted.. but that was the exception. Not the rule.
The vast majority of the time, the replacement showed up and, in-between pulls, the leaving player would drop and the replacement player would join the group, and we'd keep right on rolling. Very little delay at all.
Also... the whole "people have grown up and don't have the time to play as much so the games have to be designed around that" is flawed in at least two ways.
1. There were people with careers, families and such playing EQ1, FFXI and those games back when they were "new" as well. The important difference between then and now is that those people had different expectations and different goals when they played. People then expected to log in and do something fun, whatever it was, for however long they could play. People now - particularly those targeted by the typical WoW-like themepark MMO - are focused (for the most part) on racing to the end and getting through as much content as possible, in as short a time as possible. That difference in expectations makes a huge difference in how the game is perceived and experienced.
2. Though the people who were "young with lots of free time" 10+ years ago have grown up and have less free time now, there are gamers who have that free time themselves. Those who were young with all the time in the world 10 years ago have been replaced by young people with all the time in the world now.
Honestly, and no bashing intended, in reading your complaints, I wonder:
1. if you've actually done any reading/listening/research on this game before posting about it.
2. why you're following a game that clearly doesn't seem to fit your preferences, considering your complaints.
Recent past is littered with games that catered to "solo" MMO players.
I do not think they are targeting the millions of WoW players. They seem to be targeting people that are looking for something different. Something old school.
Honestly I do not think the problem is the game concept, but rather a lack of confidence in Brad running it. If they had announced a CEO prior to the Kickstarter and made it clear that Brad is in a creative role and totally separated from the business side, it would have fared much better so far.
i agree. when this idea was being anonymously floated around here a while back a lot of folks made it quite clear that they would love to see a game like this and they would love to see BMcQuaid as creative and devlopmental lead on it.
no one with a heart wants to see this fail. people having jobs doing things they love is certainly something to hope for anyone. and as mentioned a lot of folks would love to see something like this go live.
but the issues were made clear early on and those in charge chose to ignore them. i think that speaks volumes.
Not that the criticism of Vanguard isn't warranted, but it's plain dishonest how people keep throwing up what happened to Vanguard, all the while ignoring the fact that while he was certainly responsible for what happened, there were also things that were out of his control. People tend to ignore the fact that Vanguard is a very large game, with tons of content and some very deep game systems. Brad himself has described VG's development as them "trying to throw everything and the kitchen sink into it". The immense size and depth of the game and its systems is largely what led to its state at launch. They tried to do too much too soon, and had to push it out the door without the polish and bug-squashing it still needed. It was basially released in a beta state. The decision to launch it was not ultimately Brad's to make. He could not and did not make that call. Others at SOE set that deadline and said "make it happen, regardless". In their obsession with crucifying Brad every opportunity they get, people like to ignore that.
In the end, Brad did make mistakes with Vanguard, yes. But his mistakes were of being too ambitious and attempting to go too big, too soon. He himself has acknowledged this. He's not trying to dodge any responsibility for it. But again, people obsessed with bashing the guy every chance they get seem to overlook that.
What's also dishonest is the claim that he's not fit to do anything but "in the trenches work". I've seen people say flat out that he can not successfully develop a game as anything but a creative person. Now, at one point, I more or less agreed with the gist of that, though not with the hostility others have. Turns out I, and others, were wrong. Brad is perfectly capable of running a project as something more than a "guy in the trenches". He's already done it.
Brad McQuaid has been involved in game development for over 20 years. He was the original producer and co-designer of EverQuest, the iconic game that helped usher in the entire MMO genre. Brad managed the development team from the project's inception until its launch. He then assumed the role of Executive Producer for the first few EverQuest expansions, still celebrated by many as some of the best content in the game's 14-year history.
Brad was also a founder of Verant Interactive and its Vice President. After Verant's acquisition by Sony Online Entertainment, Brad served at SOE as Vice President of Premium Games responsible for the hit games EverQuest, EverQuest 2, EverQuest Online Adventures, PlanetSide, and Star Wars: Galaxies. In addition, Brad was the company's Chief Creative Officer.
Again, I know certain people around here will just ignore all that or attempt to "explain it away" or otherwise dismiss it, because they're only interested in crucifying someone, and it's cool to bash on Brad McQuaid for having made mistakes with Vanguard - a game which many have come to consider one of the best MMOs they've played despite its problems (something else those people will also ignore...).
So, if you don't like the guy and don't think he's capable of creating another successful game... fine. Your prerogative. But if you're going to speak out and criticize the mistakes he made (and has since owned up to - multiple times), you should at least have the integrity to be honest and fair about it and also consider the successes he's had, and the things he's done well. You know, such as successfully launching the MMO that paved the way for most of the MMOs we have to play now (but of course, those people will ignore that too).
?People also keep conveniently ignoring the fact that he has come out and stated that, with Pantheon, they are taking a very different approach. They're staying more focused, they're keeping it leaner and more realistic. They're targeting a smaller, more specific player base, rather than "everyone" as they tried to do with Vanguard.
In a nutshell... Criticism is deserved, certainly. No one - not even Brad - is asking people to forget the mistakes made with Vanguard. However, in fairness, people also need to give other variables involved with VG equal consideration. And in fairness, they should also consider what the guy has done, and what he contributed to the genre as we know it.
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
I don't recall ever saying there was lack of information, and I am very well aware of his answer, thank you.
However, what his intents are, and what actually happens are two very different things, no? He has a very minimal goal considering what he is trying to accomplish overall, and its still up in the air if it will fund.
He has already stated that he will be going for outside funding whether it funds or not.
But you knew this already right?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Mr. McQuaid is a God! Forum hipsters should learn to genuflect.
Everquest, which was Mr. McQuaid’s brainchild, felt like a simulation of a fantasy world; it served as the genre’s primary antecedent, yet few if any of its successors have managed to match the metaphysical weight and alternate reality of Norrath. Perhaps some of EQ’s success can be attributed to the novelty of both the genre and the internet back in 1999, but of course there was far more to it than that. Mr. Mcquaid’s unbounded genius made the world of Norrath real; it was Mr. Mcquaid’s genius that first brought many of us into the far realms of fantasy and adventure; his genius first spawned that essential authenticity of time, place and spirit we have been seeking in the years since.
Unfortunately, despite unprecedented budgets and advanced technology, recent mmorpgs have failed to attain a successful replication of this authenticity. It is time to return to the roots of our hobby. Perhaps Pantheon will not be for everyone, but it will certainly help the genre we all love.
Originally posted by JJ82 Should point everyone to Camelot Unchained...it jumped at the very start and almost came to a complete halt in the middle, saw a huge PITA marketing campaign on virtually every single gaming forum with beggers. And the last week or so shot up over its goal.
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What I am talking about is track record. People come on here "oh I'm nervous, oh I"m this oh I'm that" oh but this is an investment
And completely leave out the part about track record. is not track record part of investment? Isn't someone's resume really the most important part? Its not putting down one to bring up another. Its about calling a spade a spade. I am looking at resumes, past games, -track records-
As I said when did this become less about actual games and more about everything else?
Fact is this guy despite all the issues, despite everything still made two good games period. And not just two good games, two good games that had everything that gamers wanted in them. Things that people scream about wanting till this day.
Vanguard had bad optimization, once fixed it was better than anything out there and still has the best game -world- in mmo's till this day. Still the best set of classes and races you will ever see anywhere.
And was a game made by this man when he was a mess.....
"Oh but I don't like his Kickstarter"
So Evequest and Vanguard don't mean anything at all, because you know its not about the Kickstarter its about games...and its about getting another game made...
Its like judging a chef because he is fat
Oh I don't like him because he is fat
But doesn't he make good food and is one of the people responsible for creating that world class recipe?
Yeah yeah who cares about that, he's fat...
But aren't we watching the Food Network?
"But see that doesn't matter, he's fat and he doesn't tap dance like that last guy did"
But the last guy hasn't had anything as good as that guy in double the time"
I care more about having a good game made, not good kickstarters. Oh what's that you made two good games? Here you go, here is my money. Oh damn you made one game that brought me into roleplaying in the first place. Respect bro, here is more money just off of that fact.
Make good games? Get Maquiame's money
"Oh but aren't you worried about his Kickstarter not being as good as the last guy?"
"I am here to play games, not Kickstarters"
*looks at the name of this site*
mmorpg.com....
Interesting...
I won't back this mainly because I have very little confidence in the product. His track record whether you want to admit it or not is 1-1. Though this is minor compared to my other reasons..
He came in with a half-baked Kickstarter that that looked like he just sort of whipped up on a whim, and was about as lazy as I have ever seen. For me, that matters. I remember being stunned at what I was looking at that day. First impressions and all that.
His intent is to try and fund, and then find a publisher if I'm not mistaken? That rubs me wrong for a variety of reasons.
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
And for me I personally liked Vanguard. you say its 1:1 i have to ask have you played Vanguard after it was optimized?
Community Q&A videos where he answers alot of questions. Watch the later ones
Just wanted to say, the only person allowed to use the boogie nickname is the the big brother legend.
And really, is there a need to put down mark jacobs EA'S WARHAMMER to try and get people to fund the kickstarter? You should fund a kickstarter if you believe in it. I backed Camelot unchained because i love pvp and hate everything PVE. Is that a good enough reason? And i dislike sci fi, so star citizen or whatever it's called has no interest to me, nor FPS games. So that being said, people should fund this if they love PVE and think that the developer can give them the game they want or "crave" . By 2017 world of darkness could be out and all these titles could be just fodder. Who knows? Right? I won't be backing it, I HATE pve, i paid guilds in wow to run me through instances to get a TOEP so i could compete in Bg's... HATE HATE HATE PVE! CU because it's all PVP all the time!
I think part of the funding problem is the $45, and $55 had such a small limit to the number of backers. $45 and $55 is just about where I think most gamers want to spend on a game. If there were more of these available I think they'd get more funding.
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
I don't recall ever saying there was lack of information, and I am very well aware of his answer, thank you.
However, what his intents are, and what actually happens are two very different things, no? He has a very minimal goal considering what he is trying to accomplish overall, and its still up in the air if it will fund.
He has already stated that he will be going for outside funding whether it funds or not.
But you knew this already right?
I assumed it, but I suppose I didn't know it. Why?
I wish him nothing but the best of luck with it, really. I hope he creates a great game, and if he does, i'll come back and certainly play it.
I want PAntheon to havea chance, but as I have donated to Camelot Unchained I do not have the money to donate to an unsure project.
Do not get me wrong I would love a successor for EQ1 But so far it does not seem to be going anywhere. I guess at least another epic game Dark Age of Camelot will have its true sequel (ignore that crap EQ is doing they are the ones that ruined DAOC.) Camelot Unchained is being mains by the main Devs of DAOC.
I have loved many other games Brad was in on like Vanguard (which I BETAd.) The problem with that game was the Producers rushed it. But what was completed was beautiful. EQ was a masterpiece. EQ2 was good in it's first few years until Sony messed it up like everything they do. Going indie is the best idea he could have ever had.
I wish him the best, I would donate if I had more money. I will definatly try it if I am not too into Camelot Unchained. Unfortunatly about MMO's I only have time for one. :P
Nirrtix ALPHAs: -Pantheon -Shroud of the Avatar -Camelot Unchained BETAs: -World of Warcraft -City of Heroes -Star Wars Galaxies -Saga of Ryzom -Homeworld -Starcraft II -Warcraft III -Hearthstone -Star Wars The Old Republic -Vanguard Saga of Heroes
Comments
Kickstarters typically receive 30-50% funding on the last few days (~5-7) and have receive the lowest amount of funding in the middle despite being 3X as many days. You can see this trend on almost any Kicktraq.com chart, though it's not always true. Camelot Unchained and Pathfinder Online both have absolutely exceptional trends even more so than the average in terms of getting funding the last few days.
Pantheon had a really bad start if you consider that it's middle is actually not that bad and about equal to the minimum funding goal they are hoping to achieve. I expect to see as much as 200k the last 5-7 days, though it's possible Pantheon won't follow the usual trend. As such, Pantheon may in fact be on track to receive funding at minimum.
It's certainly going to be a tough for them though. Even with the heavy amount of marketing they are doing it doesn't seem like they are getting as much new backers on board as they can hope for. At least the current backers are donating large amounts of money on average. Hopefully there are a lot of people on the fence waiting to pledge at the last minute till they have the most amount of info available.
A lot of people, myself included, are excited about the forced grouping mechanic. I would even say that many of us backed the project because of this and wouldn't have backed if it was more of the same. I think it has a chance but like other games it will need a big push at the end. I think the p99 guys said it best on their twitch interview last night. If you have been complaining a about the lack of an old school style mmorpg, and you don't back this, then you can't really keep complaining.
Thats why I pledged. I've been complaining for years. I have never backed anything on kickstarter but this one is for me. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
I disagree with the highlighted section. There are plenty of reasons not to back a Kickstarter project. There's baggage with this one that some people are going to have trouble getting over, and there are other reasons someone may not back Pantheon.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
You can disagree, I won't begrudge you that. I can say that there is a legion out there playing wow lol and whatever filth ea spews out and they will challenge you. They post numbers on these forums and push their f2p agenda. They say we should just give in and play whatever solo to cap garbage is the current trend, use the in game item mall and like it, or just fade into oblivion and let them have this genre. I won't be the one here telling you that you should have backed this or else you have no voice.
They will.
yay. melodrama.
anyone who seriously thinks "back this or die" is clueless as to how the world actually works and how people actually make day to day decisions.
i'm glad you're stating you are not going to rub everyone's noses in it if the KS fails and a chance at an old school mmorpg is missed out on this time around. for while this could be the last chance at an mmorpg of this type, there's no guarantees either way. especially in the mmorpg market.
there are a lot of folks who want to see a solid old school mmorpg released. yet, as your respondent mentions there are a series of reasons why they don't back this project's KS. and it's not like a lot of them didn't openly say when this project was first being floated here that there were serious concerns with the management.
BMcQuaid chose to ignore those warnings and those people. when you ignore people you can't expect their already questioning trust to evolve into complete confidence in the project.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Well, here's how your "real world" works. It works with money. From what ever angle you would like to view it. That's it. This website we are using to forumquest on right now works because of the rift f2p and star trek legacy of romulus adds that I'm seeing right now since I don't have add blocker running. Kick started projects are new and it's at least interesting how they leverage different sources to obtain that money that makes the internet go round. This project has a new company that is excited enough about their own product that they might have to go somewhere else to fund it.
In recent history I think I can safely say that most of the larger producers that would want to back something like this have asked for a certain industry standard to be maintained in order to maximize profit. In order to maintain a certain individual artistic ownership, it's best to be as crowd funded as possible when negotiating a legal document to facilitate this partnership.
Your problem that Brad, or anyone else has to answer for something, I think has been addressed. He talked about VG and EQ and lots of other interesting topics in a few videos now that are right there on the kick starter page. There's pages and pages of people that made games that failed and are working on other projects that we like right now. Vanguard had other issues near launch that made it rough. In the end it still ended up being a good game. These issues are discussed enough.
I'm socially lubricated enough watching this awful super bowl that I felt like typing that all out.
TLDR: Yea fine, it was slightly melodramatic, sorry. I'm still more excited to talk about this game than to play another. It's been a while since that was the case so I'll give them some cash.
I can totally understand some people wanting to wait before they back.. Just want to say as a supporter of this game and someone hoping that this thing gains some traction, consider backing sooner then later. You're not charged till the end date so if you're not happy by then, pull it. The $25 tier is pretty sweet and you can always upgrade later if you want.
Why do I say that? I guess for me, it's a vote for games like this. The more people who back the better the chance it's noticed. It seems like a lot of people are leaning towards backing, but haven't.. I have no evidence to support this but I think the more it looks like this thing will fund the more likely others will back as well. I really do think there is momentum in some of these projects.. I'd hate to wait till the last few days to find out.
Just to clear up a few things I read in this thread.. Some misinformation so to speak by people who don't seem to be backing..heh.. Go figure..The game can be played in 1-3 hour sessions. They are designing the game like that. You can also solo.. It's just not as efficient as grouping. It's really all relevant to the game world.. Personally, I've played enough solo friendly quest hub games to know I'll take forced grouping. That's why they call it niche.
anyone who is on the fence because of Brad.. I strongly suggest you watch his video with Boogie.. The VG talk is about 20mins in.
What hilarious about this is that nobody looks at the track record
Vanguard despite its issues was a good game but yet based on common practices in the game industry (yes and that includes drug use many of your beloved game makers leads are mountain climbers) he is shunned
Jacobs on the other hand has not had a good game since DAoC. Warhammer Online was a turd. Which means his last good mmo was over a decade ago. I mean this is about games right and not playing the moral police? *looks at name of website it says mmorpg.com*
Vanguard came out less than ten years ago.... and just shut down, not because the game was bad but because SOE did not want to fund the game anymore.
And Broken Vanguard is better than 95 percent of the mmos on the market right now or dropping soon *ciughs* TOR
So lesson of the day kids?
A cracked up Brad McQuaid is a better game maker than his competition. And he made Vanguard for 40 million. How much was TOR made for? TESO? Warhammer Online? Vanguard is certainly better than those games. C'mon say it isn't.
I don't think there is anyone here who is sober who can despute Vanguard being a far better game than Warhammer Online
And now he is back on the straight and narrow
Last time he was he made EQ. Looking forward to what he is making now.
Can someone please explain when this became not about good games anymore please... Because I need to know.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I thought you wanted to encourage people to pledge for Pantheon because it's an old school mmorpg, you did seem to imply that with your quote from the P99 thread. If that is the case, one would support any of the Kickstarters that are more sandbox, old school type of games, so why would you put one down to promote your another?
If you want to compare Kickstarters you should look at how the successful ones were presented and conducted during the Kickstarter to see how to run one professionally and successfully. I won't point at any specific Kickstarters to do that, one can only go back to see if you weren't a part of them during their campaign. My only problem with any game started with Kickstarter is them successfully funding and then coming back to Kickstarter to beg for more money. I wouldn't put one old school mmorpg down to promote another.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
What I am talking about is track record. People come on here "oh I'm nervous, oh I"m this oh I'm that" oh but this is an investment
And completely leave out the part about track record. is not track record part of investment? Isn't someone's resume really the most important part? Its not putting down one to bring up another. Its about calling a spade a spade. I am looking at resumes, past games, -track records-
As I said when did this become less about actual games and more about everything else?
Fact is this guy despite all the issues, despite everything still made two good games period. And not just two good games, two good games that had everything that gamers wanted in them. Things that people scream about wanting till this day.
Vanguard had bad optimization, once fixed it was better than anything out there and still has the best game -world- in mmo's till this day. Still the best set of classes and races you will ever see anywhere.
And was a game made by this man when he was a mess.....
"Oh but I don't like his Kickstarter"
So Evequest and Vanguard don't mean anything at all, because you know its not about the Kickstarter its about games...and its about getting another game made...
Its like judging a chef because he is fat
Oh I don't like him because he is fat
But doesn't he make good food and is one of the people responsible for creating that world class recipe?
Yeah yeah who cares about that, he's fat...
But aren't we watching the Food Network?
"But see that doesn't matter, he's fat and he doesn't tap dance like that last guy did"
But the last guy hasn't had anything as good as that guy in double the time"
I care more about having a good game made, not good kickstarters. Oh what's that you made two good games? Here you go, here is my money. Oh damn you made one game that brought me into roleplaying in the first place. Respect bro, here is more money just off of that fact.
Make good games? Get Maquiame's money
"Oh but aren't you worried about his Kickstarter not being as good as the last guy?"
"I am here to play games, not Kickstarters. Fact is if you can make a good game even being in a bad spot in your life I can't wait to see what you can do when you are alright again. Here go for it. Not many people in this industry can say they made -two- good games. And isn't it about games?"
*looks at the name of this site*
mmorpg.com....
Interesting...
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I won't back this mainly because I have very little confidence in the product. His track record whether you want to admit it or not is 1-1. Though this is minor compared to my other reasons..
He came in with a half-baked Kickstarter that that looked like he just sort of whipped up on a whim, and was about as lazy as I have ever seen. For me, that matters. I remember being stunned at what I was looking at that day. First impressions and all that.
His intent is to try and fund, and then find a publisher if I'm not mistaken? That rubs me wrong for a variety of reasons.
Actually his intent is to try to get as much crowdfunding as possible so that he doesn't have to find funding and doesn't have to rely on publishers. The less people that help, the more he has to rely on investors and publishers.
See the bigger problem is the fact that people say that there is a lack of information without even going over all the information that is on the page.
He answered this question already. But I get it, its Brad McQuaid so who cares if he answered this question already.
And for me I personally liked Vanguard. you say its 1:1 i have to ask have you played Vanguard after it was optimized?
Community Q&A videos where he answers alot of questions. Watch the later ones
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/734281
Boogie interview where he talks about Vanguard its around 20:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45XrbsBt34c
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I don't recall ever saying there was lack of information, and I am very well aware of his answer, thank you.
However, what his intents are, and what actually happens are two very different things, no? He has a very minimal goal considering what he is trying to accomplish overall, and its still up in the air if it will fund.
Not that the criticism of Vanguard isn't warranted, but it's plain dishonest how people keep throwing up what happened to Vanguard, all the while ignoring the fact that while he was certainly responsible for what happened, there were also things that were out of his control. People tend to ignore the fact that Vanguard is a very large game, with tons of content and some very deep game systems. Brad himself has described VG's development as them "trying to throw everything and the kitchen sink into it". The immense size and depth of the game and its systems is largely what led to its state at launch. They tried to do too much too soon, and had to push it out the door without the polish and bug-squashing it still needed. It was basially released in a beta state. The decision to launch it was not ultimately Brad's to make. He could not and did not make that call. Others at SOE set that deadline and said "make it happen, regardless". In their obsession with crucifying Brad every opportunity they get, people like to ignore that.
In the end, Brad did make mistakes with Vanguard, yes. But his mistakes were of being too ambitious and attempting to go too big, too soon. He himself has acknowledged this. He's not trying to dodge any responsibility for it. But again, people obsessed with bashing the guy every chance they get seem to overlook that.
What's also dishonest is the claim that he's not fit to do anything but "in the trenches work". I've seen people say flat out that he can not successfully develop a game as anything but a creative person. Now, at one point, I more or less agreed with the gist of that, though not with the hostility others have. Turns out I, and others, were wrong. Brad is perfectly capable of running a project as something more than a "guy in the trenches". He's already done it.
From his bio here.
Brad McQuaid has been involved in game development for over 20 years. He was the original producer and co-designer of EverQuest, the iconic game that helped usher in the entire MMO genre. Brad managed the development team from the project's inception until its launch. He then assumed the role of Executive Producer for the first few EverQuest expansions, still celebrated by many as some of the best content in the game's 14-year history.
Brad was also a founder of Verant Interactive and its Vice President. After Verant's acquisition by Sony Online Entertainment, Brad served at SOE as Vice President of Premium Games responsible for the hit games EverQuest, EverQuest 2, EverQuest Online Adventures, PlanetSide, and Star Wars: Galaxies. In addition, Brad was the company's Chief Creative Officer.
Again, I know certain people around here will just ignore all that or attempt to "explain it away" or otherwise dismiss it, because they're only interested in crucifying someone, and it's cool to bash on Brad McQuaid for having made mistakes with Vanguard - a game which many have come to consider one of the best MMOs they've played despite its problems (something else those people will also ignore...).
So, if you don't like the guy and don't think he's capable of creating another successful game... fine. Your prerogative. But if you're going to speak out and criticize the mistakes he made (and has since owned up to - multiple times), you should at least have the integrity to be honest and fair about it and also consider the successes he's had, and the things he's done well. You know, such as successfully launching the MMO that paved the way for most of the MMOs we have to play now (but of course, those people will ignore that too).
?People also keep conveniently ignoring the fact that he has come out and stated that, with Pantheon, they are taking a very different approach. They're staying more focused, they're keeping it leaner and more realistic. They're targeting a smaller, more specific player base, rather than "everyone" as they tried to do with Vanguard.
In a nutshell... Criticism is deserved, certainly. No one - not even Brad - is asking people to forget the mistakes made with Vanguard. However, in fairness, people also need to give other variables involved with VG equal consideration. And in fairness, they should also consider what the guy has done, and what he contributed to the genre as we know it.
He has already stated that he will be going for outside funding whether it funds or not.
But you knew this already right?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Mr. McQuaid is a God! Forum hipsters should learn to genuflect.
Everquest, which was Mr. McQuaid’s brainchild, felt like a simulation of a fantasy world; it served as the genre’s primary antecedent, yet few if any of its successors have managed to match the metaphysical weight and alternate reality of Norrath. Perhaps some of EQ’s success can be attributed to the novelty of both the genre and the internet back in 1999, but of course there was far more to it than that. Mr. Mcquaid’s unbounded genius made the world of Norrath real; it was Mr. Mcquaid’s genius that first brought many of us into the far realms of fantasy and adventure; his genius first spawned that essential authenticity of time, place and spirit we have been seeking in the years since.
Unfortunately, despite unprecedented budgets and advanced technology, recent mmorpgs have failed to attain a successful replication of this authenticity. It is time to return to the roots of our hobby. Perhaps Pantheon will not be for everyone, but it will certainly help the genre we all love.
Beggers.. really?
Just wanted to say, the only person allowed to use the boogie nickname is the the big brother legend.
And really, is there a need to put down mark jacobs EA'S WARHAMMER to try and get people to fund the kickstarter? You should fund a kickstarter if you believe in it. I backed Camelot unchained because i love pvp and hate everything PVE. Is that a good enough reason? And i dislike sci fi, so star citizen or whatever it's called has no interest to me, nor FPS games. So that being said, people should fund this if they love PVE and think that the developer can give them the game they want or "crave" . By 2017 world of darkness could be out and all these titles could be just fodder. Who knows? Right? I won't be backing it, I HATE pve, i paid guilds in wow to run me through instances to get a TOEP so i could compete in Bg's... HATE HATE HATE PVE!
CU because it's all PVP all the time!
I assumed it, but I suppose I didn't know it. Why?
I wish him nothing but the best of luck with it, really. I hope he creates a great game, and if he does, i'll come back and certainly play it.
I want PAntheon to havea chance, but as I have donated to Camelot Unchained I do not have the money to donate to an unsure project.
Do not get me wrong I would love a successor for EQ1 But so far it does not seem to be going anywhere. I guess at least another epic game Dark Age of Camelot will have its true sequel (ignore that crap EQ is doing they are the ones that ruined DAOC.) Camelot Unchained is being mains by the main Devs of DAOC.
I have loved many other games Brad was in on like Vanguard (which I BETAd.) The problem with that game was the Producers rushed it. But what was completed was beautiful. EQ was a masterpiece. EQ2 was good in it's first few years until Sony messed it up like everything they do. Going indie is the best idea he could have ever had.
I wish him the best, I would donate if I had more money. I will definatly try it if I am not too into Camelot Unchained. Unfortunatly about MMO's I only have time for one. :P
Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes